Mateguarding - When does it end? [update: What to make of this?]

[Mz. Pixie]

Apparently you don't need to be a "cheater" to not care about your kids.

 

See this right here. He feels justified in what he's doing so much he's failing to realize that we are trying to help him.

 

He point blank admitted they are not of concern to him for now.

 

Instead he would rather make comments about those helping him and justify more.

[dreamingoftigers]

See this right here. He feels justified in what he's doing so much he's failing to realize that we are trying to help him.

 

He point blank admitted they are not of concern to him for now.

 

Instead he would rather make comments about those helping him and justify more.

 

Well, at least he's indefensible now to those who thought he was just having fantasies or kidding around.

 

That's right folks! He means it! And apparently his first set of kids already dealt with similar behaviour.

 

His children are supposed to be tougher and handle the circumstance better than he did!

[Mz. Pixie]

Oh yes, I have no doubt your mom and brother are close to your son's mom. After all she raised them it sounds like.

[SoleMate]

howtoproceed, don't move to China. Stay near your daughters, they need you.

 

If Skyping and summers is enough to form and maintain a deeply meaningful and fulfilling personal relationship, then you can stay near your daughters and just Skype and vacation with all the women in China who for whatever pathetic reason look at you as a great opportunity.

 

STOP PUNISHING YOUR BLAMELESS DAUGHTERS for the legitimate grievances you have with their mother. This isn't the Old Testament time, it's not fair to visit the sins of the mother on the daughter. It's cruel. In my view, abandonment is often even crueler than many common forms of physical abuse, as to the suffering and lifelong damage it can cause.....alienation, guilt, insecurity, impaired relationship ability, depression, sleep and eating disorders etc.

 

As far as the "military service" red herring, nice try but it won't fly. Most of those deployed parents would give anything to be back home and they make their worlds revolve around their kids. We could discuss further if it were relevant but fundamentally, the whole line of thought just equals, "other people do stuff that is either wrong or might be wrong and so I naturally am entitled to race to the bottom and deliberately make my behavior equally bad, or even far worse regardless of the pain it causes the little innocent people who depend on me". NO.

 

Or if you must travel to China, make your first stop there a clinic for a cut rate vasectomy to avoid creating any more children you will then abandon. Thanks.

[eye of the storm]

I think in the best interest of his children we should not argue with him to stay. Right now, he is not in a good place to put his children first. Can you picture him right now, in his current mindset, having a healthy interaction with his girls? I can't.

 

HtP, go to China. Have fun. Tell your girls you just need to get your head right and heal. They will forgive you taking a year or so off way easier than having you pour bitterness on them now.

 

When you talk to them focus on them. Don't ask questions about their mother. Don't ask questions about her dating or other men. Just how is school, anything fun going on at girl scouts...things like that. Just focus on them. If they are interested in a book/movie series, read/watch them and talk to them about it.

 

My kids and I have spent many hours talking about their fav series. They like knowing I am interested enough to join on their fandoms. Years later, I still poke at my daughter about figuring out Snape was a good guy before the book revealed it. I preordered the books and had one shipped to her and one to me.

 

Simple things. Things that don't cost a lot except in time and caring.

 

Holding onto hate for your xW will do nothing but damage your children. Holding on to the bitterness is like eating rat poison and waiting for the rat to die. All you are doing is punishing the wrong person. In this case you are punishing your children.

 

Go to China. heal let go

[howtoproceed]

HtP, go to China. Have fun. Tell your girls you just need to get your head right and heal. They will forgive you taking a year or so off way easier than having you pour bitterness on them now.

 

This is excellent advice and exactly what I'm talking about. If I was to get a rat hole apartment right now just to be near my daughters while my wife live in a 2500 sqft 4BR house - it isn't that it wouldn't be fair, it just wouldn't be happy for anyone except possibly my wife.

[howtoproceed]

All excellent advice - some posters here should try and control their urge to moralize and act all self-righteous and throw insults. Its not helpful. Take a look and at least see what good advice looks like:

 

When you talk to them focus on them. Don't ask questions about their mother. Don't ask questions about her dating or other men. Just how is school, anything fun going on at girl scouts...things like that. Just focus on them. If they are interested in a book/movie series, read/watch them and talk to them about it.

 

Good general principles advice - focus on the kids not the stbx.

I will try.

 

My kids and I have spent many hours talking about their fav series. They like knowing I am interested enough to join on their fandoms. Years later, I still poke at my daughter about figuring out Snape was a good guy before the book revealed it. I preordered the books and had one shipped to her and one to me.

 

Good practical advice.

My older daughter is only just turned 9 but she is into that Goth look and spooky books. This is something I could start with her now and carry it over to China.

 

Simple things. Things that don't cost a lot except in time and caring.

 

Words of encouragement - much appreciated.

 

Holding onto hate for your xW will do nothing but damage your children. Holding on to the bitterness is like eating rat poison and waiting for the rat to die. All you are doing is punishing the wrong person. In this case you are punishing your children.

 

An appropriate admonishment to not hold onto the anger, which is actually one of main reasons for me to leave. I've been with 18 months since DDay and if anything, I think I feel more angry from rolling things over in my head time and time again.

 

Go to China. heal let go

 

Exactly!

[Mz. Pixie]

All excellent advice - some posters here should try and control their urge to moralize and act all self-righteous and throw insults. Its not helpful. Take a look and at least see what good advice looks like:

 

 

 

Good general principles advice - focus on the kids not the stbx.

I will try.

 

 

 

Good practical advice.

My older daughter is only just turned 9 but she is into that Goth look and spooky books. This is something I could start with her now and carry it over to China.

 

 

 

Words of encouragement - much appreciated.

 

 

 

An appropriate admonishment to not hold onto the anger, which is actually one of main reasons for me to leave. I've been with 18 months since DDay and if anything, I think I feel more angry from rolling things over in my head time and time again.

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

You only find it good advice because it aligns with what you want to hear.

 

I'm not in that business. The reason why is because decisions have far reaching affects- such as this- and my concern is the overall picture based on what you have told us. At this point you're not thinking rationally so I decided to think about your daughter's first.

 

It makes no difference to me whether you think I'm judgmental. I'm not in that business either.

 

Let's see- at least four people tell you not to leave and admonish you for doing so but one says stay- and it's just the BEST advice ever.

 

Why would you need to live in a hovel while she lives in a 2500 sq ft home? Because you would have to pay support and as it stands since you are going to China you can bail on that obligation? I don't understand the difference unless you are planning on not paying what you should be paying.

[Mz. Pixie]

I think in the best interest of his children we should not argue with him to stay. Right now, he is not in a good place to put his children first. Can you picture him right now, in his current mindset, having a healthy interaction with his girls? I can't.

 

HtP, go to China. Have fun. Tell your girls you just need to get your head right and heal. They will forgive you taking a year or so off way easier than having you pour bitterness on them now.

 

When you talk to them focus on them. Don't ask questions about their mother. Don't ask questions about her dating or other men. Just how is school, anything fun going on at girl scouts...things like that. Just focus on them. If they are interested in a book/movie series, read/watch them and talk to them about it.

 

My kids and I have spent many hours talking about their fav series. They like knowing I am interested enough to join on their fandoms. Years later, I still poke at my daughter about figuring out Snape was a good guy before the book revealed it. I preordered the books and had one shipped to her and one to me.

 

Simple things. Things that don't cost a lot except in time and caring.

 

Holding onto hate for your xW will do nothing but damage your children. Holding on to the bitterness is like eating rat poison and waiting for the rat to die. All you are doing is punishing the wrong person. In this case you are punishing your children.

 

Go to China. heal let go

 

Parents don't get to bail on parenting. I don't know your situation and I'm not judging you- but to bail on his girls because he can't stand to see his wife with someone else is not good enough reason in my opinion and several others here.

 

He never said he was taking a temporary respite.

 

The point is that the mom doesn't get to just bail on her kids because her situation has gotten tough for her and neither should he. He made these children and he should help take care of them, her sexual history or future history is irrelevant in that part of the equation. He does not have to be married to her in order to co parent.

 

I can't picture him having a healthy interaction with them right now, which is the part that I do agree with you on, however he can avail himself of counseling, which is what most normal parents do when this happens. He is not any more hurt or grieved than anyone else whose marriage has ended- he is just handling it differently than most normal people do.

[eye of the storm]

Mz Pixie, I am normally in the be a human and take care of your children camp. The thought of leaving my kids...I don't know how people do it. (I do leave for 6-12 months occasionally for work but it is never my choice)

 

The only reason I stated for him to take off is, in his case, I think he will do less damage to his children by leaving than by staying and using them as weapons and pawns in his campaign to hurt his xW.

 

I was just thinking what would damage them less and advice on how to do that.

 

Yes, he should get therapy. And yes he should do whatever it takes to stick around. But all he can focus on is hurting his xW and using the children to do that.

 

By his leaving his children and xW can find a peaceful place and move on.

 

I do think its a bit funny that he was touting my advice as so amazing since he was so crappy to Grapes of Wrath for being an OW...seeing as I was one too.

[howtoproceed]

I do think its a bit funny that he was touting my advice as so amazing since he was so crappy to Grapes of Wrath for being an OW...seeing as I was one too.

 

The advice was good and your reasoning about doing the least damage to my children and myself included is spot on. However the fact that you are a cheater on the one hand and then on the other advise therapy for issues caused by cheating irritates me. It's like a drunk driver advising the rest of us to take on more automobile coverage. I'll just leave you with this thought: they is at least one person that hates you a whole lot more than you can ever imagine no matter what the look on their face and will mark the day you die with a smile.

 

@Mz_Pixie

 

I was trying to decide what the stupidest thing you said in your latest self righteous rant and I decided on this:

 

... however he can avail himself of counseling, which is what most normal parents do when this happens ...

 

Most normal people don't cheat and especially normal women so the situation I'm in is not normal to begin with.

[eye of the storm]

I was cheated on so I understand the pain that have betrayed spouse feels. And therapy does help when you are dealing with either a normal or a non normal situation. I went through a self-destructive phase and that is when I got involved with a married man.

 

So yes it is like a drunk driver telling you to get more insurance. Because I have been through and seeing the damage from both sides that this can cause. I know how desperately that insurance is needed.

 

And in my case his wife doesn't hate me. I am just one in a long chain of women that he has cheated on her with. I wasn't the first and I highly doubt I will be the last. To her I am merely a blip on their radar.

 

But no matter how self-destructive I got, my children always came first. And I put their needs over my desires to hurt their dad.

 

My kids are adults now. And both have told me they could tell how hard things were for me after their dad left and everything landed on me. And they appreciated how I kept them out of the fray as much as I could.

 

If looking at your daughters makes you feel nothing but anger at your xW. The kindest thing you can do is walk away. Children need love and support. They are not pawns, weapons, or bargaining chips.

[Mz. Pixie]

The advice was good and your reasoning about doing the least damage to my children and myself included is spot on. However the fact that you are a cheater on the one hand and then on the other advise therapy for issues caused by cheating irritates me. It's like a drunk driver advising the rest of us to take on more automobile coverage. I'll just leave you with this thought: they is at least one person that hates you a whole lot more than you can ever imagine no matter what the look on their face and will mark the day you die with a smile.

 

@Mz_Pixie

 

I was trying to decide what the stupidest thing you said in your latest self righteous rant and I decided on this:

 

 

 

Most normal people don't cheat and especially normal women so the situation I'm in is not normal to begin with.

 

And you yourself just proved what I said before. You believe that this pain is unique to you and therefore means you should react this way.

 

You certainly wouldn't think that way if you'd been on this forum as long as I have. Or any other forum.

 

50 percent of all marriages end in divorce.

 

Second marriage percentages are even higher.

 

Cheating is pretty common. You need to get over thinking you're special even if it feels unique to you it isn't.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Mz. Pixie

[howtoproceed]

Cheating is pretty common. You need to get over thinking you're special even if it feels unique to you it isn't.

 

Cheater talk and cheater logic! 50% of marriages end in divorce but that doesn't mean 50% of married men or women cheat. Among women, its like 30% so I just grabbed the s_hi_t end of the stick when I picked my cheating wife. I never mentioned it, but her dad and one of her aunts cheated and I remember them - a long time ago! - talking and laughing about it like it was nothing. My parents never cheater. The ironic thing is, her parents stayed married until her mom died and my very Catholic and monogamous parents divorced.

 

Anyway, cheating is far from normal and may or may not have anything to do with divorce. It never occurred to me to cheat - not until now that is! Cause technically it would be cheating if I go to China and "hook up" with a 35 y/o Zheijiang hottie. But still, it is different.

[CommittedToThis]

To her I am merely a blip on their radar.

 

You're starting to sound like the OP now, validating your actions by de-emphasizing the damage you've caused. You are not a blip. You are one of several reasons her marriage is shot.

[MadJackBird]

Cheater talk and cheater logic! 50% of marriages end in divorce but that doesn't mean 50% of married men or women cheat. Among women, its like 30% so I just grabbed the s_hi_t end of the stick when I picked my cheating wife. I never mentioned it, but her dad and one of her aunts cheated and I remember them - a long time ago! - talking and laughing about it like it was nothing. My parents never cheater. The ironic thing is, her parents stayed married until her mom died and my very Catholic and monogamous parents divorced.

 

Anyway, cheating is far from normal and may or may not have anything to do with divorce. It never occurred to me to cheat - not until now that is! Cause technically it would be cheating if I go to China and "hook up" with a 35 y/o Zheijiang hottie. But still, it is different.

 

It actually it is not any different and if you hook up with a Chinese woman before your divorce is finalized it makes you a cheater. Like your wife. If you are already talking to them now it means you are committing emotional adultery.

 

You realize you are on an infidelidity forum right. Everyone here has likely been the victim of adultery? No one here is invalidating how you are feeling, all of us get it. We really do. In this your situation is not special. Your story sounds just like mine and so many others. All you need to do is read around this very forum and see that cheating and cheating by women is common place. There is a great deal of wealth of knowledge in here. The majority of people are questioning your decisions in regards to your kids. Because guess what. Most of the people here have kids as well. And we have gone through the same thing you are going through in regards of how to balance the devastation of being a victim of adultry and yet at the same time being strong for our innocent kids.

 

I know what you are going through because I went through it myself. I stood by my former wife through multiple adulteries, drug addictions etc. and she married her last adultry partner. The only way I got through it all was support of friends. A good councellor and a divorce care support group.

 

Please seek out IC.

[howtoproceed]

I agree with you on the knowledge in the site. Everything I was warned about happened - I just wish I caught it sooner.

 

Here is some information I just got from a lawyer though. True, I should not have attempted R with a woman who would only go so far as to describe her affair as a mistake; a woman who has not once apologized for anything she did. When I found out, she was 8 months from getting her LPN and if I left at that time and withdrew support, maybe she wouldn't have finished as quickly and filed for divorce as an unemployed SAHM with no career options. THAT would have cost me. So for all the great advice, turns out I was wise to stay just maybe I stayed about 4 months too long.

 

I disagree with this though:

It actually it is not any different and if you hook up with a Chinese woman before your divorce is finalized it makes you a cheater. Like your wife. If you are already talking to them now it means you are committing emotional adultery.

 

I'm sure you have heard the argument: she broke the contract so the conditions no longer apply. I said this before and I'll say it again: I'm not looking to hookup. If I meet someone that I feel a real attraction to, I will look into it. I'm not talking about a revenge affair. I just want to see whats out there and available to me on my income and my age. Its surprisingly nice! And for what its worth, its helping me through this.

[eye of the storm]

You're starting to sound like the OP now, validating your actions by de-emphasizing the damage you've caused. You are not a blip. You are one of several reasons her marriage is shot.

 

I say I'm a blip because to her I'm not important. The only distinction I have to her is I am the only one he asked her for a divorce over. But just like all the others, as soon as she moved back in with him...he fell back into line. It is their dynamic. She knew about me for a long time and didn't care until it impacted her. When she moved in with him she admitted he had left his account unlocked one night and she found out about me years ago. While it no longer is my problem, if they follow habits, when she is sure I'm gone she will move back to her home. He will start grooming his next OW and life for them will go on.

 

Their marriage isn't shot. I wasn't important enough to damage it. It hurts to think that. But it is the truth.

[eye of the storm]

HtP, I've had BSs ask how I could go from a BS to an OW. Well, after an ugly split from someone you thought you loved and someone you were loyal to...Sometimes you can get pretty screwed up in the head.

 

I understand the appeal of the young women you are chatting with. After what you have been thru, its soothing to have people want you. When your spouse has an A you feel pretty undesirable.

 

I'm not saying don't talk to them. I agree, your M is over and you are moving on. You have filed, its over. Just waiting for the paperwork.

 

But I will tell you to be careful. You are injured. Predators sense injured people and take advantage. It was probably how my A started. But for you, it might be someone looking for a sugardaddy.

[Mz. Pixie]

Cheater talk and cheater logic! 50% of marriages end in divorce but that doesn't mean 50% of married men or women cheat. Among women, its like 30% so I just grabbed the s_hi_t end of the stick when I picked my cheating wife. I never mentioned it, but her dad and one of her aunts cheated and I remember them - a long time ago! - talking and laughing about it like it was nothing. My parents never cheater. The ironic thing is, her parents stayed married until her mom died and my very Catholic and monogamous parents divorced.

 

Anyway, cheating is far from normal and may or may not have anything to do with divorce. It never occurred to me to cheat - not until now that is! Cause technically it would be cheating if I go to China and "hook up" with a 35 y/o Zheijiang hottie. But still, it is different.

 

Blah, blah, blah. What you're not getting is that her actions towards you do not justify your actions towards your innocent children. This is not about you. It's about them at this point.

 

But you go ahead Mr Know it All.

 

Her cheating on you does not and will not justify what you're doing. You can sing it till the cows come home. And no doubt you will as you've determined yourself to be the perpetual victim here.

[merrmeade]

Htp, whew! What just happened? Not sure I understand why this war of words and morality got so vitriolic, but I don't think any real listening is going on.

 

I'll just throw in my take on it. All we really know is that you're having an intense reaction to the impotent, groveling role you were playing to your WW (in your case: WitchWife). You've done a 180 degree flip and the anger and bitterness are spewing out like a volcanic eruption.

 

And speaking of degrees... I looked at a world map just now and, depending on where your home is - er, was - China is pretty much 180 degrees away in longitude either direction. In other words, you couldn't get further away going east or west.

 

Now, I don't judge the extreme reaction or blame you. You were completely cowed by a controlling, ego-gorged demoness. Plus infidelity is crazy-making and looks different in each case. So I don't really judge or take anything you say you're going to do right now as permanent, character-defining or blame-worthy. Normally I would find this story of waking up enraged one day and running off to China to salve your ego with an Asian hottie somewhere between sad and hilarious (with pathos).

 

However, I think if we'd been talking one on one as events progressed, I might have asked what you think you'll do about your children - WITHOUT PRESSURE. If it was clear to me that you were unable to handle anything but getting away from this situation immediately, I would try to suggest at the right time that you might at least set a date to think about how and when to reconnect with your kids.

 

Not now, but you might really regret it if you wait too long. Maybe you have no intention of being away for years. But I think they'd have a hard time forgiving you if they ended up growing up without you. Plus, don't think for a minute that your wife won't denigrate you to them.

 

So I'll say it again: I understand. But I also encourage you to set a date for yourself to think about how you will resume your parental responsibilities.

 

P.S. What about Alaska or Hawaii? Somewhere English-speaking with good therapists that could help you purge the witch from your system in healthy ways. I'm not sure that dealing with the aftermath of infidelity AND culture shock at the same time without emotional support is such a great idea.

 

Good luck, htp. You need to heal.

[Mz. Pixie]

What I find interesting is that this seems to be more accepted because the poster is male.

 

If he were female saying he was bailing on his children and going to another country because of the same reasons well a mob would be breaking out.

 

Actually we can take these actions as indicative of his character because if you've read the entire thread he's also bailed on another set of kids.

 

Once you become a parent the world doesn't revolve around you and your needs anymore nor do you stop being a parent because you're butt hurt

 

His obligation to those children doesn't stop because his wife had an affair. That's not their fault. And he's punishing them for her crime.

[merrmeade]

What I find interesting is that this seems to be more accepted because the poster is male.

 

If he were female saying he was bailing on his children and going to another country because of the same reasons well a mob would be breaking out.

 

Actually we can take these actions as indicative of his character because if you've read the entire thread he's also bailed on another set of kids.

 

Once you become a parent the world doesn't revolve around you and your needs anymore nor do you stop being a parent because you're butt hurt

 

His obligation to those children doesn't stop because his wife had an affair. That's not their fault. And he's punishing them for her crime.

I agree about the double standard, but he is not able to hear it right now and it's having the opposite effect.

[Mz. Pixie]

Agreed. Sad for his kids.

[dreamingoftigers]

Mz Pixie, I am normally in the be a human and take care of your children camp. The thought of leaving my kids...I don't know how people do it. (I do leave for 6-12 months occasionally for work but it is never my choice)

 

The only reason I stated for him to take off is, in his case, I think he will do less damage to his children by leaving than by staying and using them as weapons and pawns in his campaign to hurt his xW.

 

I was just thinking what would damage them less and advice on how to do that.

 

Yes, he should get therapy. And yes he should do whatever it takes to stick around. But all he can focus on is hurting his xW and using the children to do that.

 

By his leaving his children and xW can find a peaceful place and move on.

 

I do think its a bit funny that he was touting my advice as so amazing since he was so crappy to Grapes of Wrath for being an OW...seeing as I was one too.

 

If it's really so damaging for him to stick around, then he could easily haul his butt into counseling to make sure he's doing whatever it takes to NOT BE DAMAGING.

 

And to adjust to his life's changing circumstances.

 

But he's been pretty clear he would rather hit the escape hatch and call everyone who disagrees with him "judgmental" which is ironic, because he's being judgmental.