Finding myself in a tight spot [update: no desire for wife]

[kiyoma]

I imagine deep down you're ok with a double life and deceit. This is your true problem and the sex thing is only a symptom of a bigger issue which is your character.

 

I have been told I am reactionary before and entitled but I think I need to ask this: are you saying I am a person of bad character?

[kiyoma]

Do you have any children or is it just the 2 of you?

 

"Fate" does NOT lead someone to have an affair. It is a CHOICE! No matter what was happening in your marriage, you decided that you would invest your time, your emotions & your body in another woman.

 

Yes! Marriages can reconcile.

 

Yes! The sex can come back strong. If you have open & honest communication & 2 willing participants sex can be as amazing as your imagination & physical capability BUT you have betrayed the woman you vowed to love & cherish. You have no idea how much you have destroyed her on every level.

 

As I said, hysterical bonding after d-day is extremely common. Husband & wife go crazy clinging to each-other just to feel something other than emotional agony. What happens after that really depends....

 

It's a bit early to be thinking about the sex though. First you need to break ALL contact with your mistress (if you want to stay married) & deal with confession or discovery. Your wife might be being told about your affair at this very moment. She could be on her way to file for divorce....

 

What do you WANT? Is this an exit affair? Do you plan to divorce & take your chances on a future with your mistress? Do you intend to do (what you should have been doing all along) work on whatever problems your marriage has? Do you love your wife? Is this affair about sex?

 

If you provide more information the members here can give you the best advise.

 

If I really had to choose right now, with a gun to my head, I think I will choose my GF. Because as having a history with a person can make it tough to let go, it can also make it tough to let go of all the bad times in the relationship. And currently with my GF I have no bad times.

 

Call me selfish, but I am not really confident of a sure relationship with gf EVEN if I leave my wife. Does that make sense?

 

BTW we are only 2 of us.

[Furious]

I have been told I am reactionary before and entitled but I think I need to ask this: are you saying I am a person of bad character?

 

 

You're in an affair, you're deceiving your wife, you're not being honest and you have said you feel no guilt.

 

If you do not see this as a personal character issue then you're spinning your wheels.

 

I will say again, it's ok to fall out of love but that does not qualify falling out of respect for your wife.

[heartwhole]

I never thought fate would lead me to an affair. I was just hoping that someone would give me an answer that things normalizes again and you can again resume normal marital sex.

 

Fate doesn't "lead" you to things. You make the choice to have an affair, or you don't. A sex life doesn't normalize itself. You make choices that foster intimacy and desire, or you don't.

 

Some research on the type of behaviors that lead to happy, successful marriages: The Secret to Love Is Just Kindness - The Atlantic

[Mr. Lucky]

Our affair is even not that sexual. Maybe 2 or 3 times a month.

 

I doubt your wife - or any other spouse - would agree with that assessment.

 

Ironic that you're involved in relationships with two women and you're having less sex than most guys in one healthy one. Be careful what you wish for ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[aileD]

Let me tell you. You are very much like my husband when he was in his affair.

 

Of course you have no bad times with the woman you are cheating on your wife with (she is not your girlfriend). You have no bad times because you don't have time to have bad times when you're sneaking around you have to make the best of it, if wouldn't be worth it emotionally if you had to deal with real life relationship issues when you only get stolen moments together. That's the nature of an affair.

 

My husband and I have been together since we were 17. For sure there is an element of "family" because we did grow up together (since even younger). This is the person I know best in the world and I am the person he knows best in the world . But we are complete opposites. He loves the snow. I could do without it. He's a morning person, I like to stay up late and sleep in. He pushes himself from within and I tend to need a group support when I do things like work out or diet.

 

It causes a lot of problems. Confusion and thinking we aren't made for each other. Hence the affair. But really we just needed to learn how to work with each other. If you inbox me your email I'll forward you an email I got today from a marriage coach that spoke to me.

 

See, you're scared because you're not sure you are doing the right thing. And you're not. Because if you dump your wife for this girl you will never know if you could have really made it work with your wife and that question will haunt you.

 

You need to break things off with the girlfriend and figure things out with your wife. Doesn't mean you have to stay married but she deserves your full attention in this marriage if it's going to end. Especially since you have been with her so long and are family. She deserves your respect and the respect of your full attention during this process.

 

Right now, yes, your character is flawed. There's no excuse for cheating.

 

About the fate thing. My husband was lonely while I worked the night shift for years. He would lie in bed and think about how he just wanted someone to be there. And then, suddenly the AP came into his life. He saw this as fate. As the universe speaking to him. That God put this person in his life.

 

Now, after the affair is ended and we are repairing our relationship he sees it differently. God didn't put her in our lives. God doesn't want you to cheat on your wife and god won't send you someone to destroy your marriage. The devil does that . Tempts you. Comes dressed as all you've ever wanted.

 

He got what he wanted and it destroyed him. He begged for this and it caused him more hurt and pain than he was in while he was begging for it. His life and relationships wont ever be the same. He got what he wanted and then he didn't want it. He wanted what he had. He's lucky that I wanted it too.

 

Fate is what you make it.

 

You owe it to your wife to be sincere and honest in your relationship. Even if it means ending it.

[ladydesigner]

what is important here is that it matters to YOU, not what anybody else`s opinion is on the matter:cool: be true to yourself:) wish you all the best, and dont be scared to hurt anybody if thats what you have to do, they will survive and get stronger in the end too&

 

these posts always crack me up. Yeah let's just do what we want to do and hurt everyone else in the process because the heart wants what the heart wants give me an effing break!

[ladydesigner]

Why? If she wanted, why didn't she show any interest before? And why it would be a big deal now? So she was ok as long as I was giving her the "ego kibbles" of initiating myself?

 

Although this in not about her but I seriously need to know.

 

I don't have any plan. I never thought fate would lead me to an affair. I was just hoping that someone would give me an answer that things normalizes again and you can again resume normal marital sex.

 

Fate doesn't lead you to an A silly you do that all on your own

[ladydesigner]

kiyoma I believe you need to step back and focus on yourself for a while. I would see an IC and not a MC just yet. Either end the M or focus on it, but an A will not make you feel better it will be worse because of having to keep up the lies and double life not to mention your feelings are not with your wife and you are showing her a lot of disrespect. She may be disrespectful towards you right now because she subconsciously senses your disrespect towards her. I know when my WH was deep in his A he would start arguments just so that he could keep those feelings of disgust for me going.

[HeCantBreakMe]

Let me tell you. You are very much like my husband when he was in his affair.

 

Of course you have no bad times with the woman you are cheating on your wife with (she is not your girlfriend). You have no bad times because you don't have time to have bad times when you're sneaking around you have to make the best of it, if wouldn't be worth it emotionally if you had to deal with real life relationship issues when you only get stolen moments together. That's the nature of an affair.

 

My husband and I have been together since we were 17. For sure there is an element of "family" because we did grow up together (since even younger). This is the person I know best in the world and I am the person he knows best in the world . But we are complete opposites. He loves the snow. I could do without it. He's a morning person, I like to stay up late and sleep in. He pushes himself from within and I tend to need a group support when I do things like work out or diet.

 

It causes a lot of problems. Confusion and thinking we aren't made for each other. Hence the affair. But really we just needed to learn how to work with each other. If you inbox me your email I'll forward you an email I got today from a marriage coach that spoke to me.

 

See, you're scared because you're not sure you are doing the right thing. And you're not. Because if you dump your wife for this girl you will never know if you could have really made it work with your wife and that question will haunt you.

 

You need to break things off with the girlfriend and figure things out with your wife. Doesn't mean you have to stay married but she deserves your full attention in this marriage if it's going to end. Especially since you have been with her so long and are family. She deserves your respect and the respect of your full attention during this process.

 

Right now, yes, your character is flawed. There's no excuse for cheating.

 

About the fate thing. My husband was lonely while I worked the night shift for years. He would lie in bed and think about how he just wanted someone to be there. And then, suddenly the AP came into his life. He saw this as fate. As the universe speaking to him. That God put this person in his life.

 

Now, after the affair is ended and we are repairing our relationship he sees it differently. God didn't put her in our lives. God doesn't want you to cheat on your wife and god won't send you someone to destroy your marriage. The devil does that . Tempts you. Comes dressed as all you've ever wanted.

 

He got what he wanted and it destroyed him. He begged for this and it caused him more hurt and pain than he was in while he was begging for it. His life and relationships wont ever be the same. He got what he wanted and then he didn't want it. He wanted what he had. He's lucky that I wanted it too.

 

Fate is what you make it.

 

You owe it to your wife to be sincere and honest in your relationship. Even if it means ending it.

 

Love this post! I agree 100% here. So many people who have jumped out of their relationships to be with the AP regret it. Maybe the relationship is okay but the same problems that existed in the marriage now exist in the new relationship and the problem isn't with the other person it is you and how you deal with conflict, and issues.

 

Maybe your marriage will work out maybe it wont but if you can't learn to deal with the issues then you will continue the same pattern over and over and then fate will lead you to a new AP when your 2nd marriage isn't leaving you satisfied.

 

I am a W/S and i am learning that all marriages have problems. Eventually you fall out of the butterfly and limerence stage and real life sets in and then love becomes a choice but it is also work. You see, I didn't understand this but I do now and I am so happy it wasn't too late for me.

 

Also, as an OW involved with a MM cut her out of your life, go NC, and let her move on with her life. Let her find someone single with no baggage - if you love her then give her that much.

[ShatteredLady]

Out of (honest) interest for me, will you please explain your reasoning for this?...

 

Back in your original thread you talked about being very unhappy with your marriage. You were thinking about divorce. You decided to do (the correct thing) & start a conversation with your wife.

 

You opened with, "Are YOU happy with our marriage?" and "Do YOU want a divorce?". WHY? Why didn't you say, "I need to talk with you. I'm very unhappy with our marriage & to be honest it's got so bad that I've even contemplated divorce. Can we discuss this?".

 

My husband is extremely passive aggressive in many ways. He would do the exact same thing. Are you passive aggressive in everyday life? I noticed that another member advised you to ask HER if she was unhappy. Do you often converse like this?

 

Is this common to other members? I find it kind of dishonest. If asked out of the blue, if I was happy & if I wanted a divorce I would feel blindsided. I would feel like my husband wants out but is frightened to say it. It's an attack in a way. It would put me on the defensive because I'd be wondering about his alterior motives were for asking.

 

Is it just me?

[aileD]

Hecantbreakme:

 

Look up Bruce Musik (Muzik?) on you tube and the internet.

 

He has a lot of good advice about the stages of relationships and how to make it through the power struggle phase to get to where you both can accept each other fully for who you are and work together

 

Him and Samuel from the affair recovery youtubes have helped us immensely.

 

Sorry for the hijack but actually these are good resources for everyone involved in an affair

[Mr. Lucky]

My husband is extremely passive aggressive in many ways. He would do the exact same thing. Are you passive aggressive in everyday life? I noticed that another member advised you to ask HER if she was unhappy. Do you often converse like this?

 

Is this common to other members? I find it kind of dishonest. If asked out of the blue, if I was happy & if I wanted a divorce I would feel blindsided. I would feel like my husband wants out but is frightened to say it. It's an attack in a way. It would put me on the defensive because I'd be wondering about his alterior motives were for asking.

 

Is it just me?

 

It's what sucks about p/a behavior, especially in this setting. The goal is to goad the BS into saying "no, I'm not happy" (no sh*t, your spouse is having an A), then the WS is off the hook.

 

Cowardly thing to do...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey born raised]

Fate provides opportunities, not decisions. What to do with what fate throws at us is choice, our choice. The Greeks believed the fates wove what are our choices would be before we where born. Bullshyt. Wove what fate would throw at us in the future perhaps but not the here and right now.

[ShatteredLady]

I remember watching the movie "Forces of Nature" (Ben Afflec & Sandra Bullock) with my husband years ago. It's not a great film but well worth watching before you marry or of you're doubting your marriage.

 

The basic premise for those who haven't seen it - Ben Afflec is a totally devoted fiancé traveling to his wedding, trying to write his speech. Everything goes wrong & he get stuck with Sandra as they do 'Planes, Trains & Automobiles' throughout the film. At the end Sandra is waiting outside as the horrific storm hits & Ben goes in, unsure he should marry....

 

My husband said "ahhh! Sad ending" (spoiler alert) "I wish there were 2 of Ben so 1 could take care of Sandra" NO! Just bloody NO!! That's the whole point of the film!! He has a life with his fiancé!! If he was completely dedicated to spending his life with her how could "fate", "Forces of Nature" or even an exciting hot woman make him change his mind?? It can't!!!

 

Of course he gets married & never sees Sandra again!! Why would he? She's just a hot woman who's he's spent a short, exciting time with. He figures out what his speech should be....life's bloody hard. We endure 'The Forces of Nature' TOGETHER as a married couple. Temptations & hard times are just 'nature'.

 

If you can't get that you shouldn't be married.

 

Your marriage seems to be a petty battle of wills. You hold onto & seem to enjoy building resentments. You're such a self centered 'romantic' that you think 'fate' caused the accident to make you take time & energy building an affair with your OW. There will ALWAYS be others. Always!! If you make choices & jump ship every time you will end-up married 50 times!

[kiyoma]

Let me tell you. You are very much like my husband when he was in his affair.

 

Of course you have no bad times with the woman you are cheating on your wife with (she is not your girlfriend). You have no bad times because you don't have time to have bad times when you're sneaking around you have to make the best of it, if wouldn't be worth it emotionally if you had to deal with real life relationship issues when you only get stolen moments together. That's the nature of an affair.

 

My husband and I have been together since we were 17. For sure there is an element of "family" because we did grow up together (since even younger). This is the person I know best in the world and I am the person he knows best in the world . But we are complete opposites. He loves the snow. I could do without it. He's a morning person, I like to stay up late and sleep in. He pushes himself from within and I tend to need a group support when I do things like work out or diet.

 

It causes a lot of problems. Confusion and thinking we aren't made for each other. Hence the affair. But really we just needed to learn how to work with each other. If you inbox me your email I'll forward you an email I got today from a marriage coach that spoke to me.

 

See, you're scared because you're not sure you are doing the right thing. And you're not. Because if you dump your wife for this girl you will never know if you could have really made it work with your wife and that question will haunt you.

 

You need to break things off with the girlfriend and figure things out with your wife. Doesn't mean you have to stay married but she deserves your full attention in this marriage if it's going to end. Especially since you have been with her so long and are family. She deserves your respect and the respect of your full attention during this process.

 

Right now, yes, your character is flawed. There's no excuse for cheating.

 

About the fate thing. My husband was lonely while I worked the night shift for years. He would lie in bed and think about how he just wanted someone to be there. And then, suddenly the AP came into his life. He saw this as fate. As the universe speaking to him. That God put this person in his life.

 

Now, after the affair is ended and we are repairing our relationship he sees it differently. God didn't put her in our lives. God doesn't want you to cheat on your wife and god won't send you someone to destroy your marriage. The devil does that . Tempts you. Comes dressed as all you've ever wanted.

 

He got what he wanted and it destroyed him. He begged for this and it caused him more hurt and pain than he was in while he was begging for it. His life and relationships wont ever be the same. He got what he wanted and then he didn't want it. He wanted what he had. He's lucky that I wanted it too.

 

Fate is what you make it.

 

You owe it to your wife to be sincere and honest in your relationship. Even if it means ending it.

 

 

Thank you for this and I am really sorry to hear what you went through (I checked your backstory). I mean it...

 

Thing is I am realizing I have the need for another human being to be intimate with (not just sex). Like talking about whatever - failures in life, successes, happiness, sadness, stupid ****s, fantasies, etc. I have not done that with my wife in a long time. We talk about on the top surface stuff about what I am going to do tomorrow, what happened at work, an incident, the news, etc. But I only talk those deep inside things with the AP (ok as you called she is not my gf). And the best thing is she reciprocates.

 

Thats what keeps me in and thats what I don't want to let go....

 

PS - I can't pm. So I won't share my personal mail publicly lest I receive outraged emails from some very angry people :LOL:

[kiyoma]

Also someone with whom sex doesn't feel like I am taking advantage of another person and the other person is actually enjoying. YKWIM?

[kiyoma]

Also, as an OW involved with a MM cut her out of your life, go NC, and let her move on with her life. Let her find someone single with no baggage - if you love her then give her that much.

 

You maybe surprised to hear but there are some women taking advantage of man's companionship too. My AP has commented on multiple occassions that a "full time relationship is too much work". And I can understand her reasoning. She is 26 (I am 28), working FT, studying a tough course PT (she has inspired to me take up post grad again and I am looking for a suitable course). I mean she is juggling too many things where a bf may be tough to balance for her right now. Essentially we are FWBs. You know what we bonded over? Our love of anime . "Hoyin Kiyoma" is a name for the main character of Steins;Gate which means "mad scientist" . We can even go for a few days without messaging each other anything other than "good mrng" "good nyt" and then we make a date on the weekend for drinks and talk or meet at her place for anime. You getting what I mean?

 

So essentially she is not looking for an available single guy for a BF. I would love to be that for her. If actually I was getting the vibe that she wants to break out of this hang out buddy or sex buddy, I would leave my wife and go be with her.

[HeCantBreakMe]

You maybe surprised to hear but there are some women taking advantage of man's companionship too. My AP has commented on multiple occassions that a "full time relationship is too much work". And I can understand her reasoning. She is 26 (I am 28), working FT, studying a tough course PT (she has inspired to me take up post grad again and I am looking for a suitable course). I mean she is juggling too many things where a bf may be tough to balance for her right now. Essentially we are FWBs. You know what we bonded over? Our love of anime . "Hoyin Kiyoma" is a name for the main character of Steins;Gate which means "mad scientist" . We can even go for a few days without messaging each other anything other than "good mrng" "good nyt" and then we make a date on the weekend for drinks and talk or meet at her place for anime. You getting what I mean?

 

So essentially she is not looking for an available single guy for a BF. I would love to be that for her. If actually I was getting the vibe that she wants to break out of this hang out buddy or sex buddy, I would leave my wife and go be with her.

 

You know there are some chicks out there and she is young enough to have this mentality.

 

Lol, i was a stage 5 clinger (JUST KIDDING) but sex for me always was about emotional attachment.

 

Just curious why you don't just divorce if you are not happy?

[aileD]

Thank you for this and I am really sorry to hear what you went through (I checked your backstory). I mean it...

 

Thing is I am realizing I have the need for another human being to be intimate with (not just sex). Like talking about whatever - failures in life, successes, happiness, sadness, stupid ****s, fantasies, etc. I have not done that with my wife in a long time. We talk about on the top surface stuff about what I am going to do tomorrow, what happened at work, an incident, the news, etc. But I only talk those deep inside things with the AP (ok as you called she is not my gf). And the best thing is she reciprocates.

 

Thats what keeps me in and thats what I don't want to let go....

 

PS - I can't pm. So I won't share my personal mail publicly lest I receive outraged emails from some very angry people :LOL:

 

Yet again my husband felt the same way. Exactly. You have to relearn how to communicate with your wife. At some point there was rejection and walls went up. If you are not willing to try to tear those walls down and learn how to be intimate in all ways again with your wife then you should get divorced.

 

But like I said you owe your wife the respect of ending the marriage without anyone else involved.

 

FYI my husband felt the same way and we are only 5 months into recovery and therapy and it's already getting better . We dont just talk about surface stuff any more. But be realistic. There's a lot of surface stuff that needs to be talked about when you share a life and home with someone.

[ShatteredLady]

Often it's much easier to talk to a relative stranger (your OW is by comparison to your wife) than it is to talk to someone who knows you AND who IS your problem!

 

When I read communication between my H & his OW he reminded me of a deep thinking, open, dreamer that I once knew....HIM!! When we first met at 21 he was getting over a break-up with his gf. We discussed his pain, their issues, what he would rather have, what he wanted etc.

 

He also told her lies (quoting the Bible as an atheist, country music lyrics he loathes, Google was his friend!!) & presented himself in a pretty fictional light. He could NEVER do that with me! He said that he dreamt of doing things you just can't do as an adult with family responsibilities....well, he could but it would mean abandoning his children & having no home, no pension to live on, no money!! Ugh!!

 

I'm the dreamer! I'd love to fantasize about impossible things BUT he's the realist who always shut me down.

 

Do you see what I mean? So very often affairs are a fantasy that would never work in real life.

 

If you've married the wrong person then divorce BUT don't ever divorce a real person for a fantasy!

[kiyoma]

Had a big blowout with wife last night. Chose to leave the house. Nowhere to go. Don't want to go to friends or parents. So went directly to the place of only person I could think of - AP

 

Even she was clearly inconvenienced by my presence. She didn't have to say it but it was apparent. She was studying and I was left with a promise that she would talk to me today and a kiss on cheek. And get this - she went to the bedroom (where I have been with her multiple times) and shut the door. I was left in the living room and on the couch.

 

Only just received a call from wife where I was all night. "In the station" No signs of truce or empathy. I know when I return this will all be rugsweeped and we will back to our day-to-day routine. And therein lies the problem, it feels like I am not very important to both these women. It feels like both my wife and AP have conspired together to make me the "donkey of the miller" - considered essential to grind the mill but not loved enough to be considered as precious as the horse in the barn

[elaine567]

Had a big blowout with wife last night. Chose to leave the house. Nowhere to go. Don't want to go to friends or parents. So went directly to the place of only person I could think of - AP

 

Even she was clearly inconvenienced by my presence. She didn't have to say it but it was apparent. She was studying and I was left with a promise that she would talk to me today and a kiss on cheek. And get this - she went to the bedroom (where I have been with her multiple times) and shut the door. I was left in the living room and on the couch.

 

Only just received a call from wife where I was all night. "In the station" No signs of truce or empathy. I know when I return this will all be rugsweeped and we will back to our day-to-day routine. And therein lies the problem, it feels like I am not very important to both these women. It feels like both my wife and AP have conspired together to make me the "donkey of the miller" - considered essential to grind the mill but not loved enough to be considered as precious as the horse in the barn

 

Do you really think you deserve to be important to both those women?

"Oh woe is me?"

 

You have acted appallingly and cruelly, and now you want fawned over? You have spread yourself too thinly, so neither cherishes you and why would they?

You were well aware your OW does not want a bf and that you are just a fwb, so why did you think when you fled your home, she would accept you with open arms?

Why do you think your wife would be sympathetic when no doubt it was a manufactured "blowout" due solely to you own disinterest in her?

You reap what you sow.

 

You are 28, you need to divorce your wife and free her from this torture you are putting her through as she is NOT what you want, and stop the fwb arrangement too as you have feelings for her and that never works out well in fwb arrangements.

As you have now found out, it is you who gets hurt.

 

YOUR wife is young enough to find a man who does love her, let her go.

[waterwoman]

Nowhere to go. Don't want to go to friends or parents. So went directly to the place of only person I could think of - AP

 

(

 

Why did you not have anywhere to go? You CHOSE to leave your house.You CHOSE not to go to family and friends. You are having an affair which is something you also CHOSE. The worst possible response to marital difficulties. But somehow you feel you have no choice. It's hard to feel much sympathy to be honest.

[Mr. Lucky]

Even she was clearly inconvenienced by my presence. She didn't have to say it but it was apparent. She was studying and I was left with a promise that she would talk to me today and a kiss on cheek. And get this - she went to the bedroom (where I have been with her multiple times) and shut the door. I was left in the living room and on the couch.

 

She should have comforted you - because you had a fight with your wife?

 

It feels like both my wife and AP have conspired together to make me the "donkey of the miller" - considered essential to grind the mill but not loved enough to be considered as precious as the horse in the barn

 

kiyoma, you should leave both women and get a dog. Regardless of treatment, they're grateful for anything you do for them...

 

Mr. Lucky