Allow closure with OM/OW?

[cranium]

Should one allow closure for their SO and OM/OW?

 

MW's A with OM ended abruptly as soon as I discovered. While they have continued to work together, MW has kept the relationship professional and has informed me of any personal conversations that occur. He has not pursued anything further. They have not discussed the A or what either did or did not expect.

 

OM has now found another job in another city and will be leaving soon. MW agrees this is a good thing for all of us. However, she still feels like she has unfinished business with him. She has said she can never tell me enough times that she is sorry, but she also feels she wronged him and owes him an apology; wants to tell him she is sorry for bringing him into our marital issues. She doesn't want him to leave feeling like she was using him or was not being sincere. She's thankful he never told anyone.

 

I told her he didn't tell anyone to protect her. I also told her I don't feel she owes him an apology; that if he was truly a friend to her he would have never crossed the line. He knows me and our children and could have told her to work on the issues in her marriage. He didn't. He's a player who saw she was vulnerable; saw an opportunity and took it.

 

I know that she needs to heal also and this closure for her may be part of it. Should I let her say what she feels she needs to say? Should I make her go over it w/me first? Should I be present to any conversation they have? Should I tell her instead it all has to go unfinished?

[Owl]

Cranium-

 

I asked a very similar question once on this forum. My wife too wanted to have that 'closure'. I'd discussed the possibility of allowing a last email exchange, or something similar with a lot of people on this board, and over on MB.

 

The overwhelming response was NO!!!

 

Because ANY kind of contact with him will run the risk of re-kindling the spark that they had between them. You need to GENTLY remind your wife that the friendship really ended when the affair began, and that once that line was crossed there was NO going back. Also remind her that any contact from HER might cause HIM a lot of pain and hurt too...so it's really just better for EVERYONE if they simply walk away.

 

A few months after I had this conversation here on this board, I'd mentioned to my wife that I'd considered this...brought it up while we were in MC. She was deeply moved by my desire to help and that I'd even considered it...but after thinking about it for a while, was glad that NC was maintained. She didn't want to cause ANYONE more pain...him, her, or me.

 

Just my advice based on what I've seen and been through my friend.

[jmargel]

He knew what he was getting into when he was having the affair. He saw the ring on her finger. She needs to heal? My god, for what? Don't roll over and piddle. What I would do is write a letter myself and tell him on how YOU feel and that this is the last contact he is going to have with YOUR family.

 

He has no claim to your family or wife. She is just looking to see if he's still interested (IMO). That's just BS on what she's trying to do.

[cranium]

jmargel,

 

As much as I would like to say it didn't happen, she did have an emotional connection with OM. I'm not rolling over and piddling. I did write the guy a letter shortly after d-day. Read it to her, but never sent to him. That letter actually helped her see that they had to go NC even though they still worked together. She has kept it professional and has worked hard to rebuild my trust.

 

There have been a few times he and I have crossed paths since my discovery. I made it clear in no uncertain terms how he was to act around my family. She isn't looking to see if he is still interested; he may be, but she's not.

 

She and I have been working on fulfilling each other's needs and doing the necessary work to fix what was missing. I trust that her actions are sincere. It would be mean and sad on her part if she were just playing me. If I can't trust her, what have we got?

 

Owl, thanks for your insight. I think I will gently remind her of what you have advised.

[Owl]

Cranium-

 

I don't know that she's PLANNING on anything, but remember that any kind of affair is tremendously addictive. You don't take an alchoholic to a bar, you don't give someone who was involved in an affair ANY exposure to the other person again.

 

My wife wanted to remain 'just friends' with her OM for about 8 months after the affair ended...and FINALLY she understood why that just couldn't be. It takes time for everyone to heal in these things.

[exoticdesi]

This is a very delicate situation. The thing is she could have gone and talked to OM without you ever knowing it. She is trying to be honest and asking your permission for it which means she is probably more intrested in what you would feel, how you would react or how much trust you have on her. I would say she is testing the waters. I bet if you say "no", the next question she is going to pop up is "don't you trust me enough by now ?". (I am in the same water as you are, buddy). Also from the looks of it, it seems to me that you have very much rebuild your relation. For her the OM exit is closed and she doesn't have much of a choice but to stay with you. At the same time, she does not want you to feel that she is at your mercy. By making you insecure now and then, you getting worked up, keep on thinking on what she will do with OM in privacy, she is hitting the nail right on spot. The more insecure you feel, the more running you will go to her. My take would be that you should play it cool. Tell her it does not matter or bother you if she talks or doesn't talk to the piece of scum, but she should be acting on the best intrest of YOUR relationship and not the relationship between her and OM. Leave it at that and see how it goes.

[LucreziaBorgia]

She needs to understand that the only closure she is ever really going to have is the closure she gives herself. She thinks she'll find closure by talking to OM, but I'll assure you that it will leave her with more questions than answers. I expect she is distraught at the idea of him moving.

 

but she also feels she wronged him and owes him an apology; wants to tell him she is sorry for bringing him into our marital issues. She doesn't want him to leave feeling like she was using him or was not being sincere. She's thankful he never told anyone.

 

Your W could find 'closure' but I think a good deal of finding her own closure will include identifying why it is that she needs this OM's approval and acceptance so much that she will again be willing to put her marriage to the test. It doesn't sound like she's sincerely sorry, as much as it sounds like she wants to make sure that he doesn't hate her for what happened (and on some level wants to know that OM still has feelings for her - its a buried ego thing). He is getting ready to walk out of her life, without so much as a fond farewell... and I don't think she is ready for him to leave just yet. Her ego doesn't want to accept that he will just walk away and not have even a single question, curiosity or goodbye for her after what they went through together.

 

Just being around him on a day-to-day basis has bound to have allowed at least some residual feelings for him to simmer, and when he is truly gone - then even that residue will fade. Then, and only then will she be able to give herself the closure she needs.

 

In a nutshell? Talking to OM won't give her closure. That's something she needs to give herself, by letting go of her need to be accepted, understood, and 'forgiven' by OM.

[only1life]

This is a tough one - back at our time, my W had two phone calls to make for "closure" based on what the MC said to do. I wasn't present, and all I know is what my W tells me they talked about. I do know that after each call, when I got home from work that night, W was very upset, so I realize she had become quite close to him. All the while, I had to just sit by and meekly supported her to help her thru it, even tho it really hurt me to see her so upset about leaving someone who I hate!

 

Looking back, (10 months ago) I would have liked to know what they talked about. Instead, I never really knew what they discussed, my mind was only able to guess what else they might have said to each other. Very disturbing at the time.

 

So if she insists, I might suggest a letter written by her, and read by you, and then mailed, if you two can agree on the content. That way, the content can be geared to both of your likings, since that's what is important now, working together and doing things that are agreeable to both of you, and things that will build your lives together. If she insists on something more, than you might remind her of this.

 

As an long-shot - your W's OM is leaving town - I wouldn't risk a "parting kiss" or something totally uncalled for (but all too common!) so why not play it safe!

[Sal Paradise]

I say no way, neither of them deserve closure. It will just cause more pain for you. You have to look after yourself since your wife has shown no ability to do that.

[TUDOR]

If your W was every going to prove where her loyalty lies it would be right now by respecting your concern and wishes with them having any further contact. I think now that all the cards on the table it is time to let the past stay in the past and stop making it part of the present or future. You are bigger man than I and your patience and ability to curb your angry over this and save your marriage is commendable.

[Ladyjane14]

Originally posted by cranium

She's thankful he never told anyone.

 

I told her he didn't tell anyone to protect her. I also told her I don't feel she owes him an apology; that if he was truly a friend to her he would have never crossed the line. He knows me and our children and could have told her to work on the issues in her marriage. He didn't. He's a player who saw she was vulnerable; saw an opportunity and took it.

 

I don't think she's really come to terms with the truth of this.

 

You know, my husband's EA was online. He was able after a period of time to see this OW for what she really was. He was very much "in the fog" at first, but after observing her in action....he was absolutely apalled at how close he came to losing his wife and children for NOTHING.

 

This guy was NOT being a friend to your wife. Not in even the slightest way. A friend would have given her better advice. She's had opportunity to observe him for awhile. She has enough evidence really to see the truth of that, if she'll ponder on it. More exposure won't make it clearer than it already is.

 

As Lucrezia has said, 'closure comes from within'. She must find that for herself. There's nothing that OM could say in a final conversation that would give it to her.

 

Perhaps she wants to hang onto the idea that OM was a great guy. Because if he wasn't.....well, she almost ruined her home deal for NOTHING. That's a difficult thing to face, and it breeds distrust in your own perceptions of everyone and everything around you. How can you trust your own judgement when you fell in for the machinations of some loser who was clearly NOT a great guy?

 

Meanwhile, the insecurities this meeting could potentially cause in the marriage are just NOT worth it. There's nothing to be gained for her here except for perhaps a test of your trust. And your relationship has been "tested" enough by this whole situation, hasn't it?

 

It's not really until after she has given HERSELF the gift of "closure" that she'll realize that she doesn't particularly care what OM's opinion of her is anymore. She'll be okay after that. And she's made it this far....I have lots of confidence that she'll jump this hurdle too.

[cranium]

Thanks all. Just to clarify, MW did not come to me and ask permission for closure or if she could have an opportunity for closure. It was something more along the lines of what Lucrezia said in that she seemed preoccupied lately and I sensed she was anguished at the idea of him departing her life. The finality of it all is starting to sink in. I don’t want to see her distraught, so I asked her and we have been talking about it.

 

She hasn’t wanted to talk about it, but agreed that this is something that is gnawing at her. She says she has given it a lot of thought and feels that she can clearly see what was happening in our marriage as separate from where they were. She feels he was a friend and was meant to be in her life as a friend and unfortunately she screwed that up.

 

I told her I felt he was never a friend to her and pursued her for quite some time. When I discovered the A, I did not have a moments hesitation in knowing who OM was. I also told her he screwed up by actively participating knowing as jmargel said – she had a ring on her finger and children at home. I told her she didn’t need his forgiveness.

 

Ladyjane, you’re right. She does want to hang on to the idea that he was a great guy. She’s sad it’s not going to work out to be her ideal world where she and I are okay while she and OM go back to being friends. She knows that is ludicrous to even think.

 

I told her it had to end with it all being unfinished. Even though it gnaws at her, she knows and has agreed that is what has to happen. Could she still approach him and have a conversation? She could, but I don’t think she will.

 

We will see him at an upcoming company party. Advice on how we should handle? Given her position in the company, we have to attend (she sure isn’t going alone). Several of her co-workers in addition to OM are departing.

 

The only awkward moment will come when saying good-bye. I can live through them giving each other a hug with other co-workers present knowing he’ll soon be gone from our lives. I suggested I give him a big hug and grab his a$$ as we were leaving. MW thought that would be funny as s#%t. She doesn’t want to do anything that I could construe as hurting me, nor does she want to do anything to give him the wrong idea.

 

She knows that once he is gone, he is gone. He is not to provide her a new address, phone, email, etc…

 

I'm pumped the interloper is finally leaving town.

[Vega]

but she should be acting on the best intrest of YOUR relationship and not the relationship between her and OM.

 

I think this is the bones of it here. At the company party there should be no touching and little to no conversation other than what would appear proper to others so that you maintain your dignity. and never just her and him - you need to be there too. you are the one who needs to be 100% confident in the closure of their affair. shes only wanting closure for herself and not for him even if she thinks otherwise. she wants to know that shes not a bad person for just dumping him because maybe, hopefully, she thinks or has thought herself a bad person for what she did to you.

 

she shouldn't approach the OM either at the part - avoid him unless HE approaches first and then say hello or goodbye and walk away. no pleasentries - they gave up that right when they had the affair.

 

don't stay long at the party - just make an appearance, people understand that sometimes family commitments interfere with company obligations, say a kid is sick or something.

[SoleMate]

I'm sorry your wife is anguished, but closure has to come from within herself, within her marriage. NOT from him.

 

She should skip his going-away party. You both should go NC with the OM. There is no good reason for contact, yet there is LOTS of danger.

[reservoirdog1]

The most you should permit is an emotionless "no contact" letter. And you get to read it before she sends it.

 

Beyond that... bummer about the unfinished business. But that's irrelevant. She has to decide what's more important: his feelings, or yours. He, and her affair with him, together constitute a cancer on your marriage. You don't bargain with a cancer, or placate it. You cut it out, without mercy.

[aloneinTX]

if OM is still on her mind then there might be an emotional attachment. Anything could stir the problem back up. If it IS OVER that should be all the closure needed. Why contact someone you don't want anything to do with

[WoodenHorsey]

Agree with everyone else - the cheater should cut it off right away and not look back if they are serious. And they should give you some sort of proof of it, too, like to watch them write a letter and then mail it to the OM.