Separation/Divorce

[Deafening Silence]

My wife and I have been married for almost 6 years. We have 2 young children. About 2 weeks ago my wife told me she wanted a divorce. It came as a big blow to me. Now there are many reasons she cited for wanting this. We have had many issues throughout our marriage. About 2 and a half years ago I spent about a month texting a girl that I dated in high school. I seriously questioned our marriage at that point but my wife gave me time and I realized how much I loved my wife and wanted to be with her. My wife has not forgiven me for this and anytime it is brought up she tells me that she can't and probably will never forgive me again. I understand I broke her trust and completely messed up. When told of her wanting a divorce she also spoke of my lazy attitude towards our marriage and my condescending and sometimes downright mean behavior. Every point that my wife made is valid. She's absolutely right. I have failed her as a husband. Since she told me of her thoughts I have done a ton of reflection. I have tried to change a few things in my life. I love my wife. I cannot believe it took me this long to see how badly I have hurt her. I cannot believe it took us getting to this point to wake me up. I want to stay in this marriage. She does talk to me and has told me that she does see that I've been trying to do better. This hasn't changed her mind. She says she's done and doesn't care anymore. She has brought up every little thing I've ever done to try and bolster her case. I feel like no matter what I do I am not getting anywhere. She has hardened her heart towards me and no matter what I do it isnt enough. We sleep in separate beds but we do periodically talk throughout the day. She has talked to me on numerous occasions about things explaining her thoughts and feelings. I'm at a loss though. I don't want our marriage to end. I know most of the problems in our marriage have been my fault but her refusal to forgive anything hasn't helped. I'm just curious if anyone can offer me any advice on what I need to be doing or what my next step should be. Thanks in advance.

[Satu]

"Condescending and sometimes downright mean," is something thats very difficult to come back from.

 

What was it that caused you to behave that way?

 

Were you aware that you were behaving that way?

[Deafening Silence]

At the time no I wasnt always aware. She started calling me out on it in the last couple of years but I didn't realize it was this bad. I didnt realize things had deteriorated to this point. I took her for granted in that aspect. She gave me ample time to address my actions and I failed to do so. I would change for a short time and then revert back. I really don't have a good reason as to why I acted in this manner. I've always been a bit of a harsh person but I shouldnt have been a jerk.

[Satu]

I have to ask you one more question before I can give you some feedback:

 

How is your relationship with your children?

[Deafening Silence]

My relationship with my kids is pretty good honestly. My kids are only 2 and 4. I have always helped out with them and played with them. They're my little buddies. I'd do anything for them and they know that.

[Mr. Lucky]

I know most of the problems in our marriage have been my fault but her refusal to forgive anything hasn't helped.

 

Why do you think she owes you forgiveness ???

 

I get why you want it but you're going to have to convince her it's the right option going forward. Not an easy thing to do.

 

Is she open to marriage counseling?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Deafening Silence]

I don't feel that I am owed forgivness. She doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do. Things from 4 years ago she hasn't forgiven me for. When she was pregnant with my daughter I told her I wasnt ready to be a father and wasnt sure I wanted kids at that point. It was a low moment for me but even now she brings this up constantly refusing forgivness. She's a great wife. I couldn't ask for better. She has always been there for me and been in my corner through and through.

[Mr. Lucky]

Again, I understand. But you wavered at a hugely critical time, few would easily let that go. And if she tried to talk to you about this before with no success, why would she think this time would be different?

 

Is she open to marriage counseling?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Deafening Silence]

I asked her about marriage counselling about a year ago. Then she told me she didn't think it would help. When I recently brought it up again she didn't say no but she didn't say yes either. She doesn't believe I'll change and you're right to question why she would believe that because I don't blame her at all. Her actions are very understandable and I can't fault the feelings she has. Theyre just.

[Satu]

Glad that you and your kids are working well together, that is a huge plus point.

 

 

Firstly I have to say that if your wife has made her mind up 100% that its over, nothing you can say or do, will make her change her mind.

 

But if she's less than 100%, there are possibilities.

 

She described you as being, "Condescending and sometimes downright mean," and you have described yourself as "a bit of a harsh person."

 

That means that there's something in you that that makes you behave in that way, and it needs to be fixed.

 

You need to know why you behave that way before you can change it.

 

For that reason, I strongly recommend that you seek out a counsellor, and start working on it. If you don't, those tendencies will persist, and cause you further problems.

 

Even if you and your wife do divorce, its still a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

It sounds like she's got a huge backlog of resentment and anger about the way you've treated her.

 

So he needs to be able talk with somebody about it, and a chance to fully express her feelings. Talking to you about it won't resolve it.

 

That somebody might be a counsellor, but it could also be a well-intentioned friend, a relative, or a church minister if she has any religious belief.

 

In the current situation, I don't think couples counselling would help much, because I think you need to address your issues as individuals first.

 

That's about all I can offer at the moment, but I hope its given you some things you can think about.

 

Keep your chin up and hope for the best.

 

 

Take care.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Satu

[Satu]

I asked her about marriage counselling about a year ago. Then she told me she didn't think it would help. When I recently brought it up again she didn't say no but she didn't say yes either. *She doesn't believe I'll change and you're right to question why she would believe that because I don't blame her at all. Her actions are very understandable and I can't fault the feelings she has. Theyre just.

 

*If you get into counselling asap, that might help her build some belief in your ability to make positive changes.

[Deafening Silence]

I appreciate the kind words. She has said shes done. She has also said she is still thinking and hasnt made a final decision yet. Perhaps she says that so she can feel better about her decision or perhaps she really is considering chabgibg her mind. I dont know. You're absolutely right about me needing to talk to someone and address myself. I have been scoping out different counselors trying to find one that will benefit me and help me with my issues. My wife is resentful of me for the many years of pain I caused her. Perhaps she does need to speak with someone as well. I am not going to push her to do or not do anything g right now. Is it wrong of me to hint at her talking to someone about things?

[Satu]

Perhaps she does need to speak with someone as well. I am not going to push her to do or not do anything g right now. *Is it wrong of me to hint at her talking to someone about things?

 

Everybody needs someone to talk to.

 

*It wouldn't be wrong at all, if you do it in a respectful way.

 

 

Take care.

[littlestarsmum]

I’m so sorry to hear about your struggles. Situations like this are difficult. It's pretty obvious that you want to have a good marriage and happy family. It’s good that you suggested counseling. I just said a prayer for you and your wife, and I hope that God will bring healing and hope to your marriage. Peace to you.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have been scoping out different counselors trying to find one that will benefit me and help me with my issues.

 

Since it's been two weeks, I'd stop scoping and simply start seeing someone. You need every opportunity to show your wife you're sincerely trying to change. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder.

 

You might also make an appointment for MC and ask her to go with you. Not much downside to doing so...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Deafening Silence]

Just to give a little update I did make an appointment with a counselor. Earlier this evening my wife and I talked for a few minutes and she did say that she's been thinking long and hard. She says she's most afraid I'll go back to my old ways. She said her thoughts are like a roller coaster. She seems to have softened a bit but I'm very afraid to push my luck. I'm just trying to give her space which honestly is hard for me. I didnt realize how much I actually wear my emotions on my sleeve.

[Mr. Lucky]

Looks like you're on a pretty brave journey of self-actualization, beneficial regardless of it's effect on your marriage. Hope you get the outcome you want...

 

Mr. Lucky

[kgcolonel]

I agree with Satu above, she has wavered on where she is at....get into MC...if she's reluctant to attend, tell her you're going by yourself to improve yourself. Many times a therapist can treat one spouse as the patient and pull the other spouse in for help in rebuilding the first spouse and it becomes true MC. Also, if she sees you taking committed steps, this may help you in your M. Additionally, if the M fails, if you are indeed the way she describes, you'll need to understand and address this type of interaction as it will return in future relationships....win win all the way around.

[Satu]

Well done on making that appointment.

 

I think you're doing as much as you can at the moment.

 

Keep on giving her that space, so that she can process her own thoughts and feelings.

 

Don't push her for answers.

 

Focus on yourself and cultivate an attitude of quiet optimism.

 

 

Take care.

[dreamingoftigers]

I don't feel that I am owed forgivness. She doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do. Things from 4 years ago she hasn't forgiven me for. When she was pregnant with my daughter I told her I wasnt ready to be a father and wasnt sure I wanted kids at that point. It was a low moment for me but even now she brings this up constantly refusing forgivness. She's a great wife. I couldn't ask for better. She has always been there for me and been in my corner through and through.

 

Uh-oh

 

My husband did some terrible sht when I was pregnant and it wasn't until I was pregnant again and he treated me insanely well that my emotional narrative was overwritten.

 

Pregnancy is a very vulnerable time for us, and we DO NOT forget any kind of betrayal during that time.

 

Have you minimized any of this stuff?

 

I think you do have a chance but you would have to STAY COMMITTED and do everything TO THE LETTER.

 

Contact Divorce Busters and read Divorce Remedy.

 

I found whenever my marriage was rocky I would do the 180, and it would start generating results almost right away.

 

However, I think it is much more difficult with men be ause it they see an obstacle come up, or take a hard emotional blow, they tend to quit. (This is from The Relationship Cure by Gottmann.) You've got to override that and try for months at a shot, not until your wife does a push-back which virtually ALL spouses do if you do a 180.

 

I know I just said a bunch of blah blah blah, but it generally works.

 

Has your wife made any other moves beside telling you she wants out?

[dreamingoftigers]

I appreciate the kind words. She has said shes done. She has also said she is still thinking and hasnt made a final decision yet. Perhaps she says that so she can feel better about her decision or perhaps she really is considering chabgibg her mind. I dont know. You're absolutely right about me needing to talk to someone and address myself. I have been scoping out different counselors trying to find one that will benefit me and help me with my issues. My wife is resentful of me for the many years of pain I caused her. Perhaps she does need to speak with someone as well. I am not going to push her to do or not do anything g right now. Is it wrong of me to hint at her talking to someone about things?

 

Listen, my husband has done much worse than be condescending etc.

 

In fact, I really can't even be bothered to list it all. I am not sure if I even love him anymore. I have been tracking how much I want a divorce over the last little bit. I decided if I make it to 100% of the time for 30 days straight, I will file.

 

Here's my progress so far:

1. September 12th 100%

2. September 13th 100%

3. September 14th 100%

4. September 15th 100%

5. September 16th 100%

6. September 17th 100%

7. September 18th 100%

8. September 19th 100%

9. September 20th 100%

10. September 21st 95%

11. September 22nd 95%

 

1.September 23rd 93%

 

1. September 24th 100%

2. September 25th 100%

3. September 26th 100%

4. September 27th 100%

5. September 28th 100%

6. September 29th 100%

7.* September 30th 90%

 

Okay, so not good right?

 

BUT, take note, there were days that I have "softened." Although NOT MUCH. Those days, like yesterday were days that my husband showed empathy and committment to working on himself and LISTENING to me, even if he didn't like what I had to say.

 

Last night was pretty big (you see, it raised 10%, which is still pretty terrible overall BUT it's a large relative shift overall because of just how terrible things have been.) Last night he asked how I was feeling and was willing to listen to that.

 

Unfortunately for him, the usual "I'm hurting because of X, are you sure you actually want to be married and actually love me" has been off of the table for a bit. He heard the "I am just SO PISSED off at so much that you've done that I don't feel hopeful and I'm absolutely sick and disgusted with your disrespect for me. I didn't deserve ANY of this. And you are SELFISH."

 

(Which he is, it's actually amazing how selfish he is).

 

But he's smart enough to recognize that ANY emotional reaction demonstrates investment. Mostly lately I've just been tired of him and his crap (very tired) and I haven't been talking to him very much because there's no point.

 

But he set himself up to take the bid and LISTEN, VALIDATE, and EMPATHIZE.

 

Wow. He must've read something on the internet or something.

 

He also booked an MC appointment.

 

Since he last pulled his BS on the 12th, see above, he has been pretty consistently demonstrating that he wants us to work things through.

 

BUT that isn't what budges the percentages up from 100% to 90%. It's only when that "desire" shows actual RESULTS of changed behaviour and consideration.

 

Anyways, I'm a little strange so that might not help you.

 

But, I'm telling you, she's going to test you and test you again. If you are serious about staying, you'll stay on your A-game no matter how much she frustrates you or accuses you of stuff. You'll really wonder where she got some stuff from. But you won't lose your cool about it.

[Satu]

Behaviour change is the goal, for sure.