Well, I Guess I Found the Right Place...

[BrowneyedBeth]

Hi, all. I've been lurking for awhile. I wanted to go ahead and share my situation.

 

I've been divorced for about 12 years. Two long term relationships after that. MM and I dated in college many many moons ago (we're both in our 40s) and reconnected through Facebook several months ago. I know...feel free to make a drinking game out of the cliches. He was the last person I dated before I met and married XH, and although I haven't asked, I think I'm probably the last person he dated before he met his W. Since someone will ask, we didn't make it at that time because of some peer pressure issues (different social circles, etc.) and we lacked the maturity and confidence to disregard that kind of thing. Between us we have 4 kids - 2 grown, 1 almost 17, and 1 just starting high school.

 

Like many others here, the connection was instant. It was also about a zillion times stronger than the first time around. It was entirely an EA, we were not physical. I'm glad for that, I don't think he could have dealt with the guilt. But emotions escalated quickly and it didn't take long for us both to admit that we were very much in love with each other.

 

All of the old saws apply here - sexless marriage, controlling and manipulative wife, yadda yadda. I will say that he admitted to several things that he had also done to kill the marriage, which he has been in IC for. I believe everything he's been telling me. Yes, I know we all do, but a) my BS radar is pretty well developed and I was very cautious when we first reconnected, and b) remember I DO know this guy. If anything, he took more responsibility for the fact that the marriage was failing than he blamed W.

 

While our R was progressing, he separated from his W and was living apart from her for almost all of it. To be honest, it never had the feel of a permanent separation to me because no decisive action was being taken. I also think that he wouldn't have been so conflicted about our involvement if he was truly done with the marriage. Divorce was mentioned, but MM was also dealing with the fact that his father was terminally ill. He was making trips back and forth to where his father was hospitalized pretty frequently (and yes, I know that's where he was. We sent a lot of pics to each other).

 

A few weeks ago his father passed away. I knew that this would cause him to take some kind of decisive action one way or another. When my father died I reacted by leaving my own unhappy marriage, and I just felt like he would have a similar reaction, either deciding to be in his marriage or out of it. Knowing the guilt our involvement was causing MM, I wasn't completely surprised that it went down the way it did.

 

A couple of nights later, literally in the middle of all of the usual mushy and/or sex talk, he had a breakdown. I won't go into details, but he took some of the things that happened at that time as a sign that we needed to break things off and he needed to give his marriage one more try, as well as continuing to sort out his own issues before he moved forward either with her or me. Naturally I was gutted, but I agreed to go NC. Since then, there has been one brief email (we agreed to occasional updates). I responded equally briefly. I expect I'll probably hear from him again on my birthday in a couple of weeks.

 

I was not prepared for how difficult it would be. I didn't eat for about a week. I couldn't cry because I could barely breathe most of the time. I'm sure most of you are familiar.

 

We're almost a month into NC, and it really isn't any easier. I've started making changes to my own life. I'm exercising again and cutting back on alcohol. I've changed jobs. I'm dating, but realizing that I probably need to just build a life on my own for the moment.

 

I'm fairly certain that MM's reconciliation attempt will ultimately fail. It may be soon, it may be down the road. I know reconciliation is usually ineffective when there's an undisclosed affair. I also know that one of the main reasons he's not disclosing it (besides keeping the peace) is that if we do have a shot at a legitimate relationship later on, he wants his kids to accept me. I feel like prioritizing me in that way really doesn't bode well for them. I also feel like there's very little chance that the behaviors that got them where they are will change, and he is adamant that they will have to for him to consider staying (I know...they change their minds when it all gets real).

 

Do I know the stats for relationships that started as an affair? Yup. I also see how skewed they appear to be. Bottom line, we have as good a shot as anyone does, if we both decide we want it.

 

I made it clear that I was going to feel free to date, etc. If I'm available if and when the marriage ends I know I'll be interested in pursuing a relationship with MM. In the meantime, we both understand that the affair will not continue. But I can't help feeling hopeful, for a few reasons...

 

He's not cake eating. He's not fishing (the email didn't have that feel, it was just one of the updates that we agreed on). He is trying to do the right and honorable thing as he understands it. If I disagree with him on whether the right thing is continuing in an unhappy marriage while he is in love with someone else, rather than freeing both himself and his W to pursue happiness, that's not really my call. He may come to that realization himself, and he may not. I'm aware that either outcome will mean a long and painful road.

 

I'm certain that he is as much in love with me as he says he is, and as I am with him. I'm equally certain that he's at least as much of a mess as I am. He regularly does a live audio stream, and the first one I listened to after we started NC (yes, I listened to it and have no plans to stop, so please don't tell me I should), compared to the others, was heartbreaking. He was completely checked out and going through the motions. His heart absolutely was NOT in it and you could hear it in his voice. Go ahead and tell me I shouldn't worry about how he's handling it...but I do. I love him.

 

I think he would have taken this road eventually with or without his grief as a catalyst. He would never have felt right about us without being completely sure the marriage was irreparable. That's just the man that he is. So I know he absolutely does have to do this.

 

Where does all of this leave me? Completely shattered, but working on moving forward. I'm writing my thoughts down a lot. I'm considering the direction that I want my life to take, whether it eventually includes him again or not, and I'm preparing to take steps in that direction. I'm working on my health and career.

 

Too bad I'm utterly miserable. It seems like most OW start feeling better by this point in NC. Maybe it's the fact that it was so insanely sudden (no cooling off on his part beforehand...I honestly think it came as just as much of a shock to him), or maybe it's the fact that I didn't initiate it.

 

I don't know where that leaves me, and I don't know what I'm looking for here, really. I guess I just wanted to get it out.

[ChickiePops]

1. You don't know him. You knew him 20 years ago. Can you honestly say that you are exactly the same person you were when you dated him? Youve both had half a lifetime of experiences since then.

 

2. What you do know of him now is that he cheated on his wife and that he broke your heart but still cruelly and selfishly left the door open so that you would have no motivation to move on while he tries to fix his marriage. His email to you was a common tactic called tugging the leash to make sure the dog is still there.

 

3. The right and honorable thing to do is to be honest with his wife so that she can decide for herself whether or not she wants to stay with a cheater. The right and honorable thing would be to allow you to move on and stop thinking he's leaving the door open even if he is. Nothing about him is right or honorable so take him off that pedestal. A pig is a pig no matter what you dress it in.

 

4. I would never treat people I love the way he's treating either of you. Would you?

[BrowneyedBeth]

Well. Nice to meet you, too, ChickiePops.

 

Yes, I do know him. He has matured, of course, but the essentials of what makes him who he is are still the same. On the other hand, as well as I may or may not know him, you seem to be awfully willing to provide "insights" into his motivations with less knowledge of him than I have. Kind of a double standard there.

 

I'm pretty sure I stated that he wasn't fishing (or tugging the leash, as you put it). I'm familiar with the tactic. On the other hand, I don't remember putting the contents of the email, so while I understand that's typical behavior and easy to assume, you can't really categorically make that statement. This was something that he and I mutually agreed would happen. He is operating within the parameters of that agreement, as am I. Maybe in the future total NC will be a better way to go. Maybe not.

 

How exactly is he leaving the door open? We both understand the affair won't continue. We both understand that I will be seeing other people. Handling it amicably and leaving a door open are not the same thing.

 

I don't disagree about his decision to not tell his wife. He's not perfect, but that decision is his business...I'm certainly not making it for him. But it's an awfully big leap from "I disagree with the way he's handling one aspect of this" to "nothing about him is right or honorable."

 

That last question is a little bit skewed. It operates on the premise that we created this situation to hurt people. Of course we didn't. Would I treat people I love this way? I can't honestly say I wouldn't handle the situation worse than he is if the tables were turned. Most MP in affairs seem to. He's a flawed human being who got in over his head, and I was right there in it with him. I'm just as responsible. Which makes me just as responsible for the hurt he's experiencing. Sometimes we hurt people we love. And while I'm glad you wouldn't treat people you love badly, I have to say you're really not batting a thousand with total strangers right now. I am not a dog. MM is not a pig.

Edited September 30, 2016 by BrowneyedBeth

[S2B]

He's still left that door open to contact you (even if rarely) while pretending to work on his marriage. He's STILL making the marriage a farce! Mainly because he KNOWS you are waiting.

 

YOU have handed him all of YOUR power. The situation is completely out of balance.

 

I'm certain if he was honest with his wife they could probably work through issues they have had - but he's not an honest guy. He's cheated on her and she is probably wondering why the reconciliation isn't going well - it's because you have been involved in THEIR marriage.

 

So stop contact all together! You shouldn't respond to any email since he has stated he is working on his marriage.

 

The only time he should contact you is when he can say "my divorce is final". Anything less and he's still using two women for his own selfish needs.

 

You seem to idolize him - try to get things in balance.

 

Stop settling - he's not as great as you think he is = he's a known liar and a cheater. Think about what you're choosing for yourself...someone who is terribly broken inside and hasn't been honest in his therapy. IF he was REALLY doing work on himself - to better himself he wouldn't have chosen to lie and cheat.

 

Please stay completely NC... That way you can build a new life - hopefully with an honest man this time.

 

And yes, his wife deserves to know who she is married to - not who he PRETENDS to be.

[BrowneyedBeth]

I'm certain if he was honest with his wife they could probably work through issues they have had - but he's not an honest guy. He's cheated on her and she is probably wondering why the reconciliation isn't going well - it's because you have been involved in THEIR marriage.

 

You're certain?

 

Interesting how everyone is so absolutely sure what's going on with people they don't even know.

 

I was wrong...I definitely did not find the right place. I'm done here. Thanks for all the judgmental spew.

[Rockflower]

BeB - don't go, there are some with understanding here.

[Rockflower]

You're doing really well, keep going and take one day at a time.

You don't have control over his decisions and with grief thrown in the mix, he has to work things out in his own time.

Your best bet would be to carry on as you are and try to move on, maybe get into IC if not already - if things happen in the future, you're better off being healthy, strong and more balanced, rather than picking up where you left off.

Can't cry because you can't breathe - yes, I was there.

 

Keep looking forwards.

[ChickiePops]

BeB - don't go, there are some with understanding here.

 

Thank you!

 

Providing a different perspective does not mean one isn't understanding. The purpose of a forum is to get different perspectives, not to blindly agree with you and reassure you that everything is going to end perfectly with rainbows and puppy dogs and unicorns.

 

The truth of the matter is that this dude is behaving like a jerk. To his wife AND to you. I know you don't want to believe me but it's true. Even if he does come crawling back, I hope you wouldn't take him. I'm entirely positive that you deserve better.

[S2B]

Well yes, believe it or not it is possible to work THROUGH issues.

 

But I can guarantee you - it is IMPOSSIBLE to work on ANY issues when someone isn't honest.

 

And he hasn't fixed his issues - that's obvious. And he's been in therapy a long while - which means HE isn't doing the work to improve himself and his issues.

 

 

And he knows you're waiting. Waiting while he continues to pretend to his wife to work on his marriage - the marriage he ruined by cheating.

 

 

How do you present that as a man you strive to have? How is that a good man?

 

You know he's not honest. What makes you think he would magically become honest if he married you? Heck, you're even avoiding asking him if he's been faithful.

 

By his pattern - IF you married him you could really expect him to be a liar and a cheater - is that what you want?

 

You're 40ish... Life is too short - aim for a man with a higher and stronger moral compass.

Edited September 30, 2016 by S2B

[imsosad]

Browneyed,

It is very clear you're hurting. Just about each and every one of us is sympathetic to your pain,we've all been there -or are there-one way or the other.

I will tell you,though. It seems you've read all about affairs and decided none of it applies to you. While it may be true that your affair is the exception and not the rule, disregarding the very typical componenets of your affair might suggest you're deep in affair fog.

You wrote you believe everything he told you. Id be careful. You know for a fact he lies to his wife,at least by omission.

You guys are apart now. Not your choice. It hurts bad. All Im saying is, maybe part of your healing process should include more insight as to what went on here.

Cant cry because you cant breathe-yes. Been there. Hugs to you.

[Chica80]

You're certain?

 

Interesting how everyone is so absolutely sure what's going on with people they don't even know.

 

I was wrong...I definitely did not find the right place. I'm done here. Thanks for all the judgmental spew.

 

OP I hope you won't go quite yet. It can be tough when you first start posting. Because your heart is raw. You don't want to hear some things. Which may or may not be true.

 

Having contact can be tough. I've gone through NC, LC oh we can be friends... all of it.

It's really hard when you are just an option a choice. But in your heart you already made a choice.

 

Hang in there

[Rockflower]

ChickiePops - I don't believe the purpose of this forum is to drive new posters away when they are hurting and have come here for support and advice.

I felt that way from your comments when I first came here at a desperate time.

This poster may not come back.

[S2B]

How can we help you learn and grow from this situation if we just all agree with you?

 

That's what I don't understand with new posters... Someone gets into a totally crappy situation and we are gonna say you're in a crappy situation = and YOU need to change things if you expect it to change.

 

Pining away for a dude who treated you and his wife terribly isn't gonna help you - neither is saying it's all rainbows and unicorns - it's not.

 

Life is hard. When you make changes to improve your position and your future - that's a strong and courageous woman.

 

I'm here to encourage you to change it so you have a chance to become happier.

 

Depending on him to change it could leave you waiting another 10 or 20 years... It happens and it's sad. Don't wait to eliminate him.

[Rockflower]

S2B - when you first came here, were you hurting / in shock / depressed, whatever else? How would you have felt if the responses had all been to just pull yourself up and get on with it and what a terrible person you are? If you have children, is that how you would treat them if they were upset and had done something wrong?

Dealing with stuff means processing and digesting, which includes dealing with feelings - which are all valid to the individual. Pushing those feelings aside is brushing their feelings under the carpet, even if you disagree with them.

 

If someone is upset, berating them will just fan the flames of emotion. Validating, listening and later moving to healthier advice allows feelings to be spent.

 

Please allow the OP to express themselves and give them a chance to feel welcome and able to be honest here.

[KateHR]

OP, the truth is on the surface: You are HURT. Would a man, who claims that he loves you, let you hurt? You are trying to find excuses for HIM. You show how weak you are. You lost your own self. You are in denial. If he wanted to be with you, he would be with you. Even if he left for you, he is broken inside. He would struggle for years and act like a lost puppy. Only YOU can free yourself. You are the matter of convenience to him. What helped me is to build all this negativity towards MM. But it will not work if you stop at that stage. You need to work on yourself and try to reach indifference to that man. Pull yourself out. He is not worth it. YOU are the center of your universe. Not him. You need to love and respect YOURSELF in order to attract worthy people in your life. I wish you strength!

[ChickiePops]

ChickiePops - I don't believe the purpose of this forum is to drive new posters away when they are hurting and have come here for support and advice.

I felt that way from your comments when I first came here at a desperate time.

This poster may not come back.

 

Yes I remember, and I am well aware of your bias against me. But the purpose of this forum, as I said, is to provide new perspectives whether the OP likes them or not. It's not to pretend that everything is ok when it's not. The man in the OP's situation IS a jerk and he is treating her poorly..why should I lie and tell her that's not true?

 

The OP was correct..if she's looking for everyone to agree with her and lie to her and tell her that this guy is a prince and that he will make her his princess and they'll live happily ever after then this is not the place for her.

 

As I said, I am quite sure she deserves better than this loser.

[S2B]

S2B - when you first came here, were you hurting / in shock / depressed, whatever else? How would you have felt if the responses had all been to just pull yourself up and get on with it and what a terrible person you are? If you have children, is that how you would treat them if they were upset and had done something wrong?

Dealing with stuff means processing and digesting, which includes dealing with feelings - which are all valid to the individual. Pushing those feelings aside is brushing their feelings under the carpet, even if you disagree with them.

 

If someone is upset, berating them will just fan the flames of emotion. Validating, listening and later moving to healthier advice allows feelings to be spent.

 

Please allow the OP to express themselves and give them a chance to feel welcome and able to be honest here.

 

There was no berating. In fact I encouraged her to take her power back. That is what she should do since she left her entire happiness and future up to him.

 

When any man really wants to be with a woman they leave their wife and find any way possible to be with the new woman. Nothing stands in the way. He's offered nothing - and there's no reason to receive any email from him unless he has a divorce that's finalized. Anything else seems cruel to you.

 

No way was I doing anything except encouraging her to do what's right to have a future by accepting what was and what is now - by moving forward to future happiness.

 

When anyone is unhappy with their circumstances it's ONLY up to that person to start changing things in order to achieve a different result. Sitting still in sorrow never helps. Moving forward and leaving the past behind is useful.

 

If anyone here is sad for their circumstances I'm not gonna coddle them - I'm going to encourage and empower them to change their own life.

[BluesPower]

I can tell you for certain, because I am him. Or, at least someone like him.

 

If he really loved you, he would be with you right now. And, you would not be alone pining for him.

 

I am not going to right it all out here, but suffice to say I have a little experience with OW. If you must know read some of the posts I have written.

 

I am not saying that he does not love you a little. But he loves his wife more. And even if he is a mess right now, he still love her the most and has the most to lose with her and the kids.

 

Please try to trust me on this. I personally have hurt a lot of woman and I am ashamed of the things I have done. But please try to believe what I am telling you.

 

You will be so much better off to work on yourself and feel better about you and your life than to get ready for the OM to divorce and come to you. If you do that, you will be waiting for a long time.

 

I wish you luck...

[Rockflower]

I hope you do come back BeB - []

Some of us want to support you while you are hurting.

That doesn't mean agreeing with everything, it means support.

 

Blues - is it really love ... or comfort / bonding - really?

Edited September 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge and edit for content

[BluesPower]

With which woman?

 

For my wife it is love. For all my other women, it was sex, ego boost, and I liked some of them very much.

 

But I can only love one woman at a time and that is my wife.

[Rockflower]

For your wife.

 

I respect your honesty and personal insight.

 

A genuine question - if you really loved your wife, how could you have done what you did? I'm not berating, trying to understand what is expressed as love.

I never cheated on any partner I was with, however upset or angry I was - it's never something I could personally do (and I had chances).

 

Thanks for your response.

[MoonshineGirl1990]

I agree OP is over romanticizing and idolizing her MM. I have seen it many times before. The thought process is "Yes he lies to his wife....but its justified b/c x,y, z. He would never do it to me bc I am different." I have also seen many times the argument its different b/c we "know" each other b/c we went to 1st grade together /dated 20 years ago/ our kids go to school/etc etc. You truly dont "know" someone unless you live with them for an extended period of time, or have a close intimate relationship with them for an extended period of time. And even then.... people change, keep parts hidden, deceive, etc. My husband and I have lived together 3 years and I am STILL learning things about him, his character, his dreams, etc.

 

OP i think posters here are just trying to give you a little tough love and knock you out of your "love fog". In your mind, its "okay" to keep in touch as period friends b/c you both agreed to it. Its OK that he lies to his wife. Its OK that he cant give you any promise or commitment of the future. Its OK that he abruptly cut you off without any real lead up or concern for your feelings. Its all OK b/c the love between you two is just so special and genuine and different than anything else in the world.

 

Is it possible you could be projecting your own feelings and values onto him?

 

I guess ultimately, none of that really is of concern. He has made it clear he is working on his marriage (Although even that is a sham b/c 1) he is still communicating with you which means he is not giving his marriage what it needs -- his sole attention; and 2) he isnt coming clean to his wife. Again that just goes to his character)

 

Its up to you if you want to keep pining over him such that you wont ever be open to a new or better relationship on the off chance his wife finally tires of him and pulls the trigger on divorce.

[ChickiePops]

I hope you do come back BeB - []

Some of us want to support you while you are hurting.

That doesn't mean agreeing with everything, it means support.

 

Blues - is it really love ... or comfort / bonding - really?

 

Yes, and everyone who has posted on this thread so far has been supportive except you. Your only purpose on this thread so far has been to call out other posters for disagreeing with your opinions, which is actually not at all supportive of the OP.

 

I hope she comes back too, and I hope she takes the rose colored glasses off soon and finds her self worth.

[BluesPower]

OK Rockflower, I guess OP is gone for now. So here is the short version.

 

Wife was a drug addict for 20 years. It was a hidden addiction so I just found out about it about 2 1/2 years ago. I just thought the was actually crazy for the most part up until then.

 

About 5 to 6 years ago, I kind of snapped and started sleeping around, a lot.

 

She got sober as I was fixing to divorce her about 19 months ago. She asked for another chance to fix the marriage and see if it could work.

 

So how is that...

[Midwestmissy]

Good luck blues power. You haven't left? If so, you must feel it's worth trying. I hope it works out for you.