Am I simply a naive twit?? Open relationship tanks... full of anxiety now.

[nektargirl]

Trying to keep this short, but it's complicated (isn't it always)...

 

Been dating a guy for three years. We're both pretty open minded and on the kinky side. I'm with him because we have usually have great communication, support each other, he helps keep me grounded when I'm frazzled, we make a great team. He's very affectionate and loving towards me. We may fight on occasion, but we work through our issues. And the sex is very, very good. But now we're caught up in a really sticky situation.

 

I caught him about a year and a half ago placing ads on CL looking for a "part time GF" after he was being really secretive with his phone. He convinced me that he'd never done more than text with a couple of women. That usually it was hookers or dudes answering his ads, and it was mostly a sick form of entertainment to him. He said he was really lonely when we weren't together (he lived almost 2 hours away) and it was a way to pass the time. He'd also shown me other ads he'd run that he mentioned he had a GF that was into girls and that we could all "hang out" (see pre-mentioned kinky note). It took me about a week to decide he wasn't BSing me and to put it behind me and move forward. He moved in with me a few months after the CL incident.

 

Ever since then though, my trust in him started bottoming out. He'd admitted to cheating on past GFs and his ex wife to me. It seemed every time the relationship seemed to be tanking, he'd stray. He wasn't proud of it and din't make excuses ... he seemed sincere in his regret. I caught him answering a few W4M CL ads after he moved in with me and called him on it and he stopped. But by now I was turning into a Super Snooper, always checking up on him.

 

We stared dating a girl together last summer. We'd had plenty of threesomes by this time and thought having a mutual FWB was worth a try. My biggest rule was to keep it all open and honest --three-way texts so everyone knew what was going on. Then I busted him trying to get the girl to meet him privately without me knowing about it. Which was really stupid because I'd already said I was fine if they wanted to meet without me, I just wanted to know what was going on. So I was wicked p*ssed. Things with the girl didn't really work out aside from that -- she really wasn't my type. We tried several more times that fall to find a girl we could date together, but found that it was nearly impossible. Our taste in women were pretty different.

 

So then me, the Super Snooper, finds that right around the holidays last year he's sending dirty FB messages to an old high school friend who lives out of state and to a woman he met online who lives out of the country. I was again, pretty p*ssed off, but I kind of understood the appeal. The thrill of sexy talk without any consummation. Like going to a strip club then coming home all worked up ready to go. I've learned that I'm ok with our recreational "sport f*cking" (for lack of a better term) as a couple, but draw the line at getting seriously emotionally entangled with others outside of our relationship. That messes with my head.

 

So then last February he starts secretly texting "her." She's a bass player, he's a drummer. They have a ton in common. She's separated from her husband. She lives only 1 1/2 hours away. Instant attraction and instant connection. I figure it out within a week, being the Super Snooper I am, and I flip the f*ck out. Then I calm down and think. We're both really open minded and have our own unique kinks. Dating girls together has not worked out. I'm not getting the bdsm fix I'd like on occasion (he's not into it). He feels he's not getting all the attention he wants from me (I've got 2 young kids and own my own business... I get busy). I've got my own fantasy of dating a couple. He's always had a fantasy of having a girl on the side. Soooo... why not try an open relationship? Everyones needs are being met without all the secrets and dishonesty. Win-win, right?

 

For a couple of months it was interesting and fun. I had actually STOPPED snooping since I felt like he was telling me everything that was going on and trusted him again. I got to meet "her" -- she was really nice and very cool. I got turned on listening to his sexual escapades with her (who knew?!). I went out on a couple of dates with a girl who was in a similar relationship (engaged to a man, but liked women too). But it quickly unraveled after that. He started juggling three women ("her," a long distance lady, and a local woman he thought we might want to date together). I started to feel like I was entitled to date other guys, too, since he had a bevy of ladies. My BF was NOT into me dating other guys, but begrudgingly offered to give it a try. I texted a few guys in "the lifestyle" and met one guy for coffee, talked to one on the phone, but it really screwed with my head. I felt like I was cheating on my BF just talking to other guys, because I knew he didn't really like it. In the meantime, unbeknownst to me, because I'd stopped snooping, things were getting really serious between him and "her." They were in love. He still loved me, but he loved her too. (Note: I do believe it's possible to love more than one person, but that's not how I personally operate. It's too much for me).

 

I ended up flipping out and breaking up with him at the beginning of the summer. I didn't like the open relationship and I didn't want to go back to me constantly feeling like I had to check up on him. Being a Super Snooper made me feel like a crazy person -- I've never had that level of anxiety and self doubt before and didn't want it again.

 

He didn't want to break up. He wanted to try and work it out, but I wasn't budging. Of course he was living with me and my kids for over a year by then so I told him he could stay until the end of the month until he got a new place to live. It was a really messed up month. He turned to "her" for the first couple of weeks ... but in a twist ... she ended up having a cancer scare and needed surgery and decided to go back to her husband and try and work it out. Somehow, by the end of the month, he talked me into trying to make it work. To get rid of "all the other stuff" and focus on us. A week later, he gets a message from "her" that she ran an STD panel and had gotten tagged for possibly having something. He admitted to me that even though he told me they were using condoms, well shucks, they didn't. And now I needed to be tested. WTF? Thank god we both came back with totally clean bills of health. But what a way to start over again.

 

So, two weeks after the STD scare, he's being weird with his phone and I turn into paranoid Super Snooper again. While he's out at a gig, I find that he'd sent "her" an email with a ton of photos telling her not to forget about him, that she's the one he really wants to be with and to wait for him. Well, I lost it. I packed up his stuff, called me sister and we drove over to his gig and dumped it all into his van in the parking lot. I took his keys and gave him some cash for a hotel room and told hime to leave me the hell alone and stop messing with my head.

 

I felt GREAT kicking him out.

 

We barely talked for weeks... then he'd come to get some more of his stuff. We'd yell at each other. He'd leave. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. He was almost suicidal during this time. Alternately depressed and then lashing out at me. In the meantime, I was trying to move on. I started talking with some other guys, went on a handful of meet-n-greet dates. Nothing super exciting. I realized what a large pool of mediocre men there are out there. ugh.

 

So then one day he comes over to get more things an we finally are able to sit and really talk about what happened. And talk and talk. We remember all the good things we have together. We still love each other after all of it. And so we decide to try again... "without all the other stuff." We start slow, but after about a month he's basically living with me again. Has his own place, but is here most nights.

 

BUT...

 

The trust is shattered now. On both sides. I'm finding I can't shake all his sneakiness, secretiveness of the past. I constantly feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. And I've turned back into the Super Snooper and he freaks at the invasion of privacy. I'm totally paranoid and anxious that something is up. Just this past month I've seen him join a FB group called "Naught FB Dating" (which he dropped a week later guessing bc it's all dudes). He's chatted up some girls on FB messenger... nothing dirty like before, but still flirty. He'd reconnected with an old girlfriend when we were split up and she seemed to really help him from hurting himself (she's in another state and has a BF) -- but they talk and text all the time now and it puts me on edge. I lost it this week when I saw that he'd talked to "her" three times on the phone on the way home from work. He swore there was nothing to it -- that she'd called him to check up on him and that she's still working things out with her husband and focusing on getting healthy.

 

Anyway, I feel like I'm at a cross-roads. I see myself turning back into Miss Paranoid Crazy Pants again. It effects my self-esteem in a huge way. Every time he looks or chats with another girl, I feel like a failure, like I'm not good enough. Which in itself if f*cked up. I feel like if I can only just let go of the past, we could be so great together. But then I feel like a naive twit because I'm probably buried in red flags at this point. So... that's my tale.

 

I need to learn to let go... but of the past or of him?

[jen1447]

I need to learn to let go... but of the past or of him?

 

HIM. As long as he's in the picture, this is your life.

 

I don't actually condemn him for his ways - it sounds like that's who he is and you bscly encouraged it. The issue here is moreso one I see a lot in this world (I'm poly/open/bi) - you see yourself as a social progressive and so you figure you can handle an open relationship but the reality is you can't. Being socially progressive doesn't matter - biologically you're wired for monogamy and single pair bonding, so anything else will reduce you to crazy bc it's untenable for you.

 

So that means the only relief is to start over w someone else in the monogamy lane bc this one w this guy is a wash for you.

[Space Ritual]

All relationships, especially open ones, as you well know, take a boatload of honesty and trust.

 

I doubt much will change within your relationship with him, as he seems like he has a lot of excuses why it's ok for him to have multiple women on the side, but not you having other guys on the side. That is one thing that sucks about open relationships. in that for many who do try them, they quickly find out the partner they are with has either some ulterior motive or a hard time telling the truth, or both.

 

So now you do not have two of the major components for continuing...and that is trust and communication.

 

I am not a fan of open relationships simply because of the pitfalls like this.

 

But to each, their own.

 

I doubt that this leopard will be able to change his spots, so I would advise you to get another leopard.

[Buddhist]

In my experience when you feel like you're going crazy you're probably not. You're just not listening to your intuition. This guy is drama on two legs, you know it and kinks aside its not what you want. It sends you into emotional over-drive and begins to control your behaviour. You hate yourself this way.

 

Time to get rid of the aggravating factor, him.

[l8estnews]

I need to learn to let go... but of the past or of him?

 

Well, after all the things you have experienced from him, and all the lies (take note: REPEATED Lies), STD Scare, Trickle Truths, Going back to you when he was dumped by her, joining multiple dating sites when he was with you and many, many things.... you considering forgetting all of these and staying with him seems not a good idea, don't you think?

 

 

 

 

TL;DR

Girl, OMG, are you seriously asking this question?!

[smackie9]

I'm going to go with "naive twit" The reasons why you shouldn't be in this relationship:

-you have to continually snoop

-he is a serial cheater through out his life

-he can't play by the rules and over steps his boundaries

-he only cares about himself and his needs

-has no respect for you, or your feelings

-his actions never match his word

-untrustworthy

 

What my GFs would say....you are d*&^ whipped. Find someone that doesn't make you all cray cray.

[nektargirl]

Thanks for the harsh honesty. I'm rolling laughing... my sis said something similar about me putting the "d*&^ on a pedestal" truth!

[greaterdevil]

I started talking with some other guys, went on a handful of meet-n-greet dates. Nothing super exciting. I realized what a large pool of mediocre men there are out there. ugh.

 

I mean, this is probably true... but, do you hear yourself? On a scale of 1-10, mediocre sounds like it's an upgrade of +5 from the little drummer man-boy.

[Toodaloo]

After all that you are even bothering to ask?

 

Ditch him!

 

For goodness sake he is a complete looser and you are still going back???

 

Sex must be good or he must be really pretty...

 

get some self respect and be done with it once and for all. This drama is not good for your kids.

[nektargirl]

My ... well, now BF ... has a history of chatting up women on FB, KIK, phone calls, etc. Very flirty at first and turning very sexual. Nothing physical -- they are all out of town so he thinks it's ok. Harmless flirting. I don't agree that it's harmless and asked him to stop. I broke up with him at the beginning of the summer over some of the fallout from this amongst other things. I found out after we broke up that he'd fallen in love with one of the women he'd been talking to (and she was in love with him). He finally visited her and slept with her a couple weeks after we broke up. Afterwards he flipped, and told me he didn't really want to be with her, he wanted to be with me, felt totally terrible for sleeping with her even though we weren't together anymore. That it was all a huge mistake and now he really knows what he wants. I ended up saying ok to give it another try. Shortly after, this woman had a cancer scare and went back to her husband that she was separated from.

 

Cut to three weeks later when I see an email he sent to her (we shared a laptop) full of a ton of photos begging her to "Please please please don't hesitate to call me if you need me. As much as you're going to fight the urge, I'm still here and ready to be there for you. Don't forget about me. I want to get thru this and be with you again. I really miss you. You're the one I want to be with. I love you [name]. Forever and always." So needless to say I immediately kicked him out, for what I thought was for good.

 

Then dumb me gets sucked back into his grips again about a month later when he comes over to pick up some of the rest of his stuff. He'd been extremely miserable since I dropped him... almost suicidal. We talked and talked and talked. He made all sorts of promises that he wasn't going to chat anybody up anymore. That he learned his lesson. That I'm his future... blah blah blah. I took it for what it was worth... words. But thought I'd at least give him the opportunity to prove it to me. That he was committed and that all that chatting and flirting and sexting was just a bad habit he needed to knock.

 

But actions speak louder than words. It only took about 6 weeks before he started calling this other woman and having hour long phone conversations. When I confronted him he told me that it was her contacting him to check up on him. Huh? Not what our phone records say. And when I told him no more, he still called her a few more times last week. THEN, I found that another one of the women he'd been dirty texting about a year ago (a former high school friend), he was still messaging. He told me they are strictly friends now, but then he lied right to may face yesterday and told me he had to go into practice early to set up, but he really was planning on calling this girl so he could talk to her while she was on a long road trip. This girl whom I’ve told him I’m not comfortable with him talking to any longer. This girl whom he's seen in fancy lingerie and has dirty texted to the point of them both jerking off. Blah! So f***ing done with this BS.

 

He had a really rough week emotionally last week with the anniversary of some terrible stuff from his past (anniversary of a good friend's death and of another's bday who also died recently), so I’m trying to get past this week before I initiate "the talk." I don’t want him to throw it in my face that I dumped him on one of these anniversaries.

 

Thanks for letting me vent!

 

“Never trust a person that has let you down more than two times. Once was a warning, twice was a lesson and anything more is simply taking advantage.”

[Zahara]

The guy has treated you like absolute dirt. Just disappear. I can't believe you're still sitting there coddling his feelings and waiting to have another talk to nicely dump him. Are you serious?

 

Find your self-respect.

[Kelley]

He is disrespecting you on so many levels. I forgave for my now ex when I saw text messages disrespecting me to his so called 'friend'. I loved him but I had no boundaries and blindly trusted him. The trust went and guess what the 'friend' reappeared a year later and they are now together. I learned a lot and have set some healthy boundaries. You need to get your self respect back, dump him it won't be long before he leaves you for one of these girls. If you love someone, you respect them, and you don't cheat!

Edited October 10, 2016 by Kelley

[JewelD]

Who cares about his feelings or what the anniversary is when you dump him. Clearly you mean very little to him so you need to treat him the same way. Get rid of him immediately.

[BlueIris]

... Blah! So f***ing done with this BS.

 

He had a really rough week emotionally last week with the anniversary of some terrible stuff from his past (anniversary of a good friend's death and of another's bday who also died recently), so I’m trying to get past this week before I initiate "the talk." I don’t want him to throw it in my face that I dumped him on one of these anniversaries.

 

Thanks for letting me vent!

 

“Never trust a person that has let you down more than two times. Once was a warning, twice was a lesson and anything more is simply taking advantage.”

 

Vent away. You gave him so many chances so you did the best you could. You don't owe him any more, imo. Do you really HAVE TO have a talk? Do you live together or something? Could you just pack up your stuff, deliver his stuff, say "I'm done" (no debate or discussion) and go 100% No Contact?

[nektargirl]

Vent away. You gave him so many chances so you did the best you could. You don't owe him any more, imo. Do you really HAVE TO have a talk? Do you live together or something? Could you just pack up your stuff, deliver his stuff, say "I'm done" (no debate or discussion) and go 100% No Contact?

 

 

We'd lived together for over a year before I booted him out this summer (it's my house). He's got his own place now, but he still has a bunch of stuff here since he's been at my place most nights the past month or so -- including some furniture. I mostly don't want to cause a scene in front of my kids. I'm basically waiting for this weekend when my kids are with their dad. He can get very dramatic and I don't want them subjected to it. My youngest will be thrilled he's gone -- they were like oil and water -- but my oldest will probably take it hard. They got along pretty well.

 

I keep remembering something a friend of mine said over the summer... "Sometimes it takes a few times for a breakup to stick." I guess she was right. I think I need to be sure to have one of my sisters hang with me when he has to come back to pick up some of the bigger things. I learned that lesson the hard way. Too easy to get sucked back in when it's just the two of us. But once he's out and his stuff is gone there's no reason I can't go no contact.

[Space Ritual]

We'd lived together for over a year before I booted him out this summer (it's my house). He's got his own place now, but he still has a bunch of stuff here since he's been at my place most nights the past month or so -- including some furniture. I mostly don't want to cause a scene in front of my kids. I'm basically waiting for this weekend when my kids are with their dad. He can get very dramatic and I don't want them subjected to it. My youngest will be thrilled he's gone -- they were like oil and water -- but my oldest will probably take it hard. They got along pretty well.

 

I keep remembering something a friend of mine said over the summer... "Sometimes it takes a few times for a breakup to stick." I guess she was right. I think I need to be sure to have one of my sisters hang with me when he has to come back to pick up some of the bigger things. I learned that lesson the hard way. Too easy to get sucked back in when it's just the two of us. But once he's out and his stuff is gone there's no reason I can't go no contact.

 

Why even bother? Get some of your friends help you move that shyte out on the front lawn or by the road and tell him he can come pick his shyte up there. Offer your friends free beer or something to help you.

 

The promise of Free Beer usually gets a cavalry coming to help you.

 

For the nominal cost a couple of cases of Pabst Blue Ribbon (you gotta keep it classy, right? lol) , your conundrum could be over without even seeing him.

 

Food for thought.

[nektargirl]

I just wanted to say thanks for everyone's support. It took me a little longer to finally toss his ass out, but I finally did it and I feel GREAT!!!! Talk about a weight off my shoulders that I didn't even realize was there.

[aileD]

I don't know if he's the right guy for you....but after everything---you both agreed to start again from scratch.

 

Doing that means you know what he's don't in the past and you're willing to keep it in the past.

 

Are you?

 

You can't hold things against him that you e already hashed out if you're going to start ovee.

 

Could he still do these things? Yes. He may.

 

But....you know that and you decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and try again.

 

If you can separate the before and after, do that and give him a chance. Maybe he'll surprise you. There's obviously something between you two.

 

But if you can't leave the past in the past that's ok too. Just admit it and move on. . No one will fault you for it.

 

You have to make a decision. Can you give blind trust one more time or not? You're still a good person no matter what. Look within yourself. This isn't about him. It's about you.

 

((Hugs))

[aileD]

Oh I didn't read the whole thread. You decided. Good for you!