Praying for reconciliation

[MJJean]

Have you spoken to a lawyer about the legal implications of moving out should your wife decide on divorce? In most states, moving out is something lawyers advise against because it can effect child custody and asset division.

 

Personally, living apart makes detachment much easier for me. I get used to my routine sans partner and it makes partner coming back into my home feel like an intrusion into my territory. YMMV.

[Lion Heart]

Im sorry you have had to deal with this and Im sorry your husband went through similar things as I did. I wish I would have sought counseling before it went this far. I have no plans on stopping counseling even if my wife decides on divorce.

 

 

 

 

I have watched TONS of youtube videos and they are so helpful. I really like watching and hearing other peoples testimonies. It is good to know I am not alone with this problem. I don't know if my wife is also looking at things like that. I hope she is but I don't know if I should be emailing her things especially right now since we are having a no contact situation.

 

RO, I hate to say it but I'm really impressed by you. I had to take a break from reading your thread just to reflect on whether I'd ALLOW myself to be impressed with a WH at all. Lol.

Indeed I am.

 

You've disclosed through confession to your BW.

You've been re-employed.

Gone through hell as a child.

Sought reconciliation faithfully.

Respected BW wishes! Lol wow!

I'm seriously impressed. Sincerely.

You've sought IC and MC.

Returned to God as a repentant Christian.

 

Congratulations on ALL this work.

 

If you FELT BETTER because of my "flattery" albeit, sincere flattery, then you are still looking for external validation.

No person's an island.

I advise you TO SAY ALL THESE things to YOURSELF until you are strong enough TO NEVER NEED external validation for you AS A MAN.

 

You don't.

You never have actually.

 

But you're ALMOST there from what I can see.

 

You are only BEGINNING to deal with your childhood issues.

I'll second those suggesting that this Counsellor is "not cutting it". Some can only take you thus far.

 

I'm a BW two Ms full lol. I've been betrayed by my last 2 Hs. So have our children.

 

I feel like I know what your BW is going through. I doubt she'll reconcile now. But for you, I hope she will try. Tbh I think she's trying her very best but it's too broken for her.

 

And she's only now gaining the clarity.

She's coming to grips with the depth of the betrayal.

This doesn't go away (or never did for me) until you are completely out of her life.

Maybe she's reliving the trauma when she has to see you.

Feeling the freedom once you're out of her presence.

 

It's important you continue to SHOW her the respect she didn't get from you during your M. Please always respect her need for space.

 

The STBexWH here appears to have gone a very similar trail to you from dot to dot. But it wouldn't matter what he did, earnt, promised, disclosed, regretted etc etc etc.

 

It's over done.

 

It may not be the same outcome for you. But it's kinda looking that way.

 

I'm sorry for your ignorance that lead you to seek an Affair that lasted four years?

 

What you're experiencing now are real consequences for your deliberate actions.

 

Ask yourself this please, do you think, after D, that your BW would consider dating or marrying a man who's a confessed serial cheater in his previous M?

Even WITH ALL of your incredible moves for regeneration within yourself?

 

THIS is what she may be considering.

 

Why WOULD she? Low self esteem maybe? Feelings of unworthiness?

 

Would she be WILLING to risk it all over again for this man?

 

Probably not.

 

A lovely man from my childhood came in REAL CLOSE to WH and I during Reconciliation. J I'll call him. J did most of what you'd done DURING his M, and after. Sought counselling for 6-7 years intensively.

He's staggeringly handsome.

Quite famous in Australia.

"Got it all". And ofcourse after a 40+ year friendship with me, I love him. Like a cousin.

 

He proposed M to me this year. No dating. No physical contact more than you'd give a cousin.

 

It didn't matter how good he looked to now. How well his recovery has gone. And cudos to him for ALL of that. Same for you.

 

But no.

Never in fact.

 

I'm worth WAY too much to risk anything but a proven sure bet. A man who's faithfully loved his partners. His past reflects this fact. Sure no one knows for sure! But it's fairly easy to find out.

 

In this I rest my case for never becoming in any way intimate with a known cheat during M especially. There's no reason for me to enter into such. There are wonderful men who'd never dream of straying from their W.

 

I wanted one of THOSE men. I've got him.

 

Maybe in this and other posts, you'll gain more clarity for yourself.

I truly wish you and your wife the best life from now.

 

I think you've been amazing to be following all the steps for your recovery.

"Addiction" to affairs and all that they entail, must be an incredibly difficult thing to kick. The answer to kicking the habit is what you're discovering now.

 

Congratulations on your internal work. I'm sorry for your childhood issues not dealt with.

 

Good luck

Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

If you FELT BETTER because of my "flattery" albeit, sincere flattery, then you are still looking for external validation.

 

I wouldn't say I felt any better at all.. I appreciate the candid response and the withholding of bashing though.

 

 

 

You are only BEGINNING to deal with your childhood issues.

 

Yes for sure. I realize I have a long way to go with IC although Ive come a long way just in 3 months. Even my counselor has been surprised by this. But alas I realize its a long journey.

 

I feel like I know what your BW is going through. I doubt she'll reconcile now. But for you, I hope she will try. Tbh I think she's trying her very best but it's too broken for her.

 

And she's only now gaining the clarity.

She's coming to grips with the depth of the betrayal.

This doesn't go away (or never did for me) until you are completely out of her life.

Maybe she's reliving the trauma when she has to see you.

Feeling the freedom once you're out of her presence.

 

Im sorry you too have had to go through this and twice as you mention. Its a very terrible thing.

 

I hope you are wrong about her being willing to reconcile and I have hope that she will want to. We are both Christian (although I know I sound like a hypocrite to many for saying I am one) and believe God can move mountains.

 

She does have some freedom from the trauma when I am not with her Im sure. She however has mentioned numerous times that if we did divorce she would still want to be best friends. Ive told her I do not want to divorce and would hold on and never give up. She still seeks me out and texted me again today with a range of comments. She had a couple more questions about things I may have done. She also asked if I would send her my journal twice a week instead of once a week as our counselor had suggested. She seems like she wants to know more about how I feel.. more about what Im doing day to day. I try not to get my hopes up by anything she says - just staying focused on what is right in front of me. Im not sure what to write in my journal that Im sending her. I try to just be honest and say whats on my mind. Some of it would probably be better not said. Not sure.

 

It's important you continue to SHOW her the respect she didn't get from you during your M. Please always respect her need for space.

 

Yes I am trying. She has thanked me several times for being willing to give her the space she feels like she needs right now. Im respecting the no contact suggestion by our counselor by not texting or calling her.

 

I'm sorry for your ignorance that lead you to seek an Affair that lasted four years?

 

Likewise I deeply regret my choices. No, I had one affair (a one night druken mistake) 4 years ago. Then there were a few online "email friends" over the course of the past 4 years before an affair that lasted about 6 weeks.

 

Ask yourself this please, do you think, after D, that your BW would consider dating or marrying a man who's a confessed serial cheater in his previous M?

Even WITH ALL of your incredible moves for regeneration within yourself?

 

My wife has told me she doubts she would remarry at all if we were to divorce. Weather or not that is the case I don't know. She has told me she doesn't want a divorce but doesn't know how long it would take for her to know when she could move forward on reconciliation. To answer your question though, no I can't imagine that she would want to remarry someone who told her he was a serial cheater. I think there is a difference however in that I am someone she has loved for 20+ years and has 3 children with. While some might say its of no significance if I were in her shoes and she did this to me it would be significant.

 

I'm worth WAY too much to risk anything but a proven sure bet. A man who's faithfully loved his partners. His past reflects this fact. Sure no one knows for sure! But it's fairly easy to find out.

 

In this I rest my case for never becoming in any way intimate with a known cheat during M especially. There's no reason for me to enter into such. There are wonderful men who'd never dream of straying from their W.

 

I never dreamt of straying either... And while I understand what I've done is a terrible thing I don't believe it defines me or who I am as a person. I know of many couples who have gone on to lead very happy lives/marriages after infidelity so it is very possible. There are no guarantees with any marriage. I know that I can live the rest of my life committed to my wife. So while some might look at me as "damaged goods" not worth taking a chance on Ill have to live with that.

[Joie]

I am a BS and you remind me so much of my WH. He is a good man and was remorseful. We are over a year into our reconciliation. It is work every day but it is worth it.

 

My suggestion is that you have to honor you wife's wish to move out. However, you can ask her for brief "dates" maybe meet for breakfast or coffee, walk her into work, make a list of the activities you loved to do with her and see if she would be willing to do one or two.

 

Warning: It is incredibly hard those first few dates. It is so awkward and even more so because this is a person you have never been awkward with before. Do you hold hands, do you kiss her hello, do you sit next to her on the couch, what do you talk about....it is not easy. It took us months and months of small dates for it not to be weird. However it really does get better if both people are trying.

[Regretful one]

I am a BS and you remind me so much of my WH. He is a good man and was remorseful. We are over a year into our reconciliation. It is work every day but it is worth it.

 

My suggestion is that you have to honor you wife's wish to move out. However, you can ask her for brief "dates" maybe meet for breakfast or coffee, walk her into work, make a list of the activities you loved to do with her and see if she would be willing to do one or two.

 

Warning: It is incredibly hard those first few dates. It is so awkward and even more so because this is a person you have never been awkward with before. Do you hold hands, do you kiss her hello, do you sit next to her on the couch, what do you talk about....it is not easy. It took us months and months of small dates for it not to be weird. However it really does get better if both people are trying.

 

Thank you for your reply! I find it very encouraging. Im sorry you went through this same torment as my wife has.

 

In my eagerness to do SOMETHING I think I've read to many things and watched to many youtube videos about how to help heal my marriage. I get worked up not knowing do I tell her I love her do I not tell her that... do I do this do I do that. I know it takes time and I need to calm down and let God lead.

 

Our counselor talked about weekly dates at some point soon where we take turns asking each other out and planning the date. My wife would be able to say no if she wanted. But we aren't quite there yet.

 

I can understand how it might be awkward. I didn't know how to greet her at our counseling session. I wanted to hug her but didn't as I wasn't sure she would want that.

 

My wife called me again and has been texting as well. She seems to be softening a bit. Seemingly leaning more towards reconciling anyway. She hasn't said it but I feel that she is missing me and really liking things I'm doing in my life. Fingers crossed.

[Lion Heart]

RO

 

I apologize for reading the ONS 4y ago as a 4y A. Sorry.

Along a "spectrum" of cheating like behaviours, IMO this is very different.

 

ESPECIALLY with an unprompted confession.

AND all the work you're doing.

 

Ofcourse things are in God's hands.

 

I guess the Emotional Affairs are on top for your BW to deal with.

 

RO was it the COUNSELLORS suggestion or your WIFE'S insistence that you move out?

I'm unclear about this point.

 

I don't want to "bash" you lol. I very much hope for a real chance at Reconciliation for you in fact!

 

Nonetheless I understand your BW somewhat more than I do you.

 

I find the NC thing very puzzling!

Do YOU think NC is helping?

Tbh I don't see how.

 

I PREFER Joie's suggestions and THESE are the people who you SHOULD listen to with more consideratation than OP. Like me! Lol.

 

COUPLES WHO ARE IN SUCCESSFUL RECONCILIATION will shine a guiding light for your path.

There are some couples here and I'm very happy for them all!

I hope they can chime in to support you.

 

I'm very happy for myself though too :-).

 

Some people are just not going to ever get past infidelity from their spouse. I'm one of those. I'm not better, nor worse a person, just different. And very happy I'm me.

 

ONCE your BW discovers WHERE she sits here, she may be able to make more firmer commitments to one path over the other.

 

I applaud your resourcefulness.

Your tireless efforts to R.

 

If you can happily date and or go on some type of getaway? Without forcing anything on your BW. Merely making your intentions clear.

 

NC has blocked the open and available channel of communication I believe that you 2 really need for R.

But if it's not what your BW wants, then I guess you have no choice but to respect her wishes.

 

Lastly I was telling that story of choice of partners from a BW POV.

R is similar to "re-marrying" the spouse who cheated.

It was for me anyway.

 

To RECOMMIT to a man who's already betrayed you personally.

It's a HUGE consideration to make for a BS.

And hopefully not one taken lightly I'm sure in most sincere cases.

 

Mine was what I recognize now as a False R.

 

Yours would not be if you are willing to recommit faithfully. On your side at least.

 

Indeed FOO issues can be a lifelong study for us.

I also had a very difficult childhood. ExWHs had different undisclosed FOO issues they'd never dealt with. Nor will as far as I can ascertain.

I began dealing with these DURING my childhood.

It's a work in progress for sure.

 

It makes sense that the validation not received in your childhood may have manifested in your behaviours in adult life.

I'm pleased for you that you're facing these now.

Being honest with your BW about even these may be a tool to bond you now. Without attempting to elicit sympathy ofcourse! Lol.

As a BW myself KNOWING THESE helped ME be more compassionate to my last WH.

 

I also knew that he was way too psychiatrically and psychologically disturbed to a pathological degree though.

 

You appear coherent and cognizant of the damage you've done to the M. It surprised me that exWH felt "utterly betrayed" by me falling in love with my bf after separating.

During R he encouraged me to have As to level the playing field in his words. Tried to physically force me in fact.

 

ExWH NOW has a taste of the betrayal I felt during the M.

It's not remotely similar IMHO. But there it is. I'm simply indifferent to how he feels about anything really lol.

 

Your BW STILL CARES.

 

Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

RO

I apologize for reading the ONS 4y ago as a 4y A. Sorry.

Along a "spectrum" of cheating like behaviours, IMO this is very different.

 

ESPECIALLY with an unprompted confession.

AND all the work you're doing.

 

No apology necessary. It was still an affair and so I understand that on any spectrum there is no "good affair". My confession was prompted only by God and as contradictory as it sounds love for my wife. Thinking back 7 weeks ago to the night I confessed I was actually filled with hope. Hope that by confessing, getting counseling (Individual as well as couples - something I had never done before), and with Gods help I would change and my marriage could be a place where my wife and I thrive as individuals sharing a life together. I could have kept everything hidden. My wife had no idea. I could have simply made changes on my own, asked for forgiveness from my God and moved on but it would be continuing the lie and deceit. I believed that because I truly love my wife she needed to know. She needed to decide to stay with me (or not) having this knowledge. Its about time I start respecting her like I should have for the past 20+ years and this was a big first step in doing that.

 

I guess the Emotional Affairs are on top for your BW to deal with.

 

Yes and this is a big part of what my wife struggles with. I had several "email friends" on top of the two physical affairs. While they were mostly actually just platonic friends it was still something I kept from my wife and only adds to reasons she can't trust me.

 

RO was it the COUNSELLORS suggestion or your WIFE'S insistence that you move out?

I'm unclear about this point.

 

It is difficult to distinguish actually. My wife had toyed with the idea of separation since the beginning. But when we spoke about it I was able to selfishly convince my wife that staying in the home was the best thing for me, for her, for our kids for our finances, for my career etc.. In truth it wasn't the best thing for her. I believe our counselor helped my wife find her voice and stand up to me and tell me what she needed for her. So I guess to answer your question I believe it was my wife's want and my (our) counselor helped my wife say what she wanted and not back down to me.

 

Nonetheless I understand your BW somewhat more than I do you.

 

Makes total sense. While I know my wife is in pain and I understand the gravity of what I have done I was not the one who was betrayed like she and you were. Likewise it is difficult for a BW to understand the mind set (and there are different reasons and mind sets of course with a WS) of a WH. In my case I also had and have pain and torment. I hated myself all along. I pulled over once on my way home and cried after I had been with the OW. I didn't understand myself. I know I sound pathetic and I was I suppose. But the level of self hate I had and insecurities stemming from that were profound. Six weeks of counseling woke me up. Confessing to God and my wife unloaded years of shame and guilt that was drowning me. I was alive again. Unfortunately while I was able to find relief in confessing it turned my wife's world upside down as you too experienced.

 

I find the NC thing very puzzling!

Do YOU think NC is helping?

Tbh I don't see how.

 

I PREFER Joie's suggestions and THESE are the people who you SHOULD listen to with more consideratation than OP. Like me! Lol.

 

COUPLES WHO ARE IN SUCCESSFUL RECONCILIATION will shine a guiding light for your path.

There are some couples here and I'm very happy for them all!

I hope they can chime in to support you.

 

I also found the NC thing confusing. I pestered my counselor with a text after the session - something I try to avoid doing. She told me that every couple and situation is different and this was in her opinion what was needed. Do I think NC is helping. I can't answer that since we haven't stuck to the NC... lol. See my post below.

 

ONCE your BW discovers WHERE she sits here, she may be able to make more firmer commitments to one path over the other.

 

I believe she is starting to form her decision. I may be setting myself up for a let down but I believe it is God's will that our marriage will be saved and I believe she wants that as well.

 

Lastly I was telling that story of choice of partners from a BW POV.

R is similar to "re-marrying" the spouse who cheated.

It was for me anyway.

 

To RECOMMIT to a man who's already betrayed you personally.

It's a HUGE consideration to make for a BS.

And hopefully not one taken lightly I'm sure in most sincere cases.

 

Mine was what I recognize now as a False R.

 

I appreciate your analogy as its not one I had considered. It is very much on target and eyeopening. It is also sobering as it makes it clear how difficult it would be for a BW to be willing to risk being hurt again. Obviously no one could ever blame my wife for choosing divorce. Even God allows for divorce in the cases of adultery and He loathes divorce. It exemplifies the seriousness of what I have done.

 

Indeed FOO issues can be a lifelong study for us.

I also had a very difficult childhood. ExWHs had different undisclosed FOO issues they'd never dealt with. Nor will as far as I can ascertain.

I began dealing with these DURING my childhood.

It's a work in progress for sure.

 

It makes sense that the validation not received in your childhood may have manifested in your behaviours in adult life.

I'm pleased for you that you're facing these now.

Being honest with your BW about even these may be a tool to bond you now. Without attempting to elicit sympathy ofcourse! Lol.

As a BW myself KNOWING THESE helped ME be more compassionate to my last WH.

 

The sad thing is the amount of denial I had about my childhood issues. I recall almost boasting about how I had a bad childhood which included terrible types of abuse and neglect - being left alone at 5 years old for days at a time. I remember telling people and thinking that I went through all that yet managed just fine. Yet here I sit now. One of the first things I learned in counseling and through my self counseling (Hours and hours of youtube video therapy sessions on family origin issues) was that those things we go through as kids form who we are. There are some positives (Im very ambitious because of what happened to me) but huge negatives as well. I was seeking a basic need everyone has when I had these affairs. That basic need of feeling loved, wanted, desired, respected etc.. I was just so messed up in the way I went about satisfying that need. Im a good person! I just made terrible choices.

 

Dealing with your issues while you were young I'm sure had a profound impact on you and your life. I have great regret I never was wise enough to see clearly that I needed help before now.

 

You appear coherent and cognizant of the damage you've done to the M. It surprised me that exWH felt "utterly betrayed" by me falling in love with my bf after separating.

During R he encouraged me to have As to level the playing field in his words. Tried to physically force me in fact.

 

ExWH NOW has a taste of the betrayal I felt during the M.

It's not remotely similar IMHO. But there it is. I'm simply indifferent to how he feels about anything really lol.

 

Your BW STILL CARES.

 

Lion Heart

 

I believe I am understanding of what Ive done yes. I could see how I would still (like your exWH) feel betrayed if my wife chose to have an A. I could not blame her however. My wife has mentioned that she wishes now that she had had an A as well. She told me early on that she should go out and sleep with a couple guys to see how I liked it. There is a part of me actually that wishes she had also had an A. I think however that a RA would not help and only bring us one step closer to D.

[Regretful one]

So the NC thing hasn't really happened. I have respected it. I have not called or texted my wife until after she starts a conversation. In my mind my wife has the keys to the bus and Im along for the ride right now. If she wants to break the suggested NC rule who am I to say otherwise.

 

It started with phone calls two days ago. She seemed in a good mood and we talked a lot. Then hung up and texted. Yesterday same thing.. she texted me and we had great conversations and she felt my remorse. As the day wore on she told me she wanted me to be with her. I questioned her motives and if it was out of love or physical needs. She assured me she was needing to connect with me at that moment.

 

I dropped what I was doing and drove home last night. I tucked my daughter into bed which felt so good and then spent the night with my wife in our bed. She wanted me and said it was for connection purposes as well as for physical needs. We went to breakfast together this morning and my wife said that she decided she is leaning towards reconciling but that we have a long way to go and that there are no guarantees and that Im not moving back in yet. I said of course and that I fully understood. I look at this as a very positive sign though! Now I'm a man so I don't always understand women especially in this case so I hope Im not off in some other world of understanding.

 

Our counselor is going to be annoyed probably lol.. and I have the first individual session next week. But she can't be mad at me... I just hope that it wasn't a mistake. Some of the suggested methods of preventing a divorce involve staying away and almost acting uninterested in ones spouse and Ive been doing the opposite. I tell my wife how sorry I am (without going overboard) and that I love her deeply. I am ALWAYS available for her if she wants to text/call etc..

 

After I got back to my apartment this morning She texted me and asked if I thought we had made a mistake. I told her no. She said that she is a mess and she feels like she maybe should have never gotten married to anyone. So the ups and downs continue but Im supporting her and telling her to take her time. Anyway.. thats the latest.

[mikeylo]

Some of the suggested methods of preventing a divorce involve staying away and almost acting uninterested in ones spouse and Ive been doing the opposit

 

Really ? I mean really ? You have proved your disinterest in her and your marriage by having not one other woman but few. How much more uninterested do you have to show?? That is why the NC is BS. Now you need to not just show but also be really interested in her and marriage.

 

Your counselor needs therapy!

[elaine567]

and then spent the night with my wife in our bed. She wanted me and said it was for connection purposes as well as for physical needs. .

 

Its called "hysterical bonding" sex and is all part of the "Humiliating Dance of "Pick Me"

 

The Humiliating Dance of 'Pick Me!' | Huffington Post

[Regretful one]

Really ? I mean really ? You have proved your disinterest in her and your marriage by having not one other woman but few. How much more uninterested do you have to show?? That is why the NC is BS. Now you need to not just show but also be really interested in her and marriage.

 

Your counselor needs therapy!

 

I think you misunderstood what I was saying some of the other suggestions Ive read here on other threads and in other places on the internet... suggesting that by appearing not to eager to reconcile you actually create a situation where the spouse seeking a divorce or separation will want you back.

 

I wasn't suggesting my counselor wanted me to do that. She suggested the NC in order to give my wife the space she needed.

[Regretful one]

Its called "hysterical bonding" sex and is all part of the "Humiliating Dance of "Pick Me"

 

The Humiliating Dance of 'Pick Me!' | Huffington Post

 

Hmm im not so sure... we had lots of that in the first month. My wife told me sometimes we just needed a break from the pain and we would have sex as a way for her to have good feelings but she would tell me it was only a physical thing. Afterward she would tell me I needed to go back to my room. After a few of those times I wasn't sure it was healthy and my counselor also said that we should not be having sex unless it was to reconnect. It should be "making love" and connecting. If it was to "bond" then it would be helpful in our reconciliation. We agreed. Our counselor said "no sex" in our last meeting (until we talked to her about it first) and then here we have several rounds in one night. But my wife told me it was to connect and have that closeness again - not just a physical act so I went along with it. I am however anxious for any positive attention from my wife so I hope I didn't some how sabotage progress but spending the night at home per my wife's request.

 

In any event it didn't feel like a humiliation pick me type of sex. My wife did cry after the first time which our counselor told her she would probably do. But cry because of an emotional overflow - not cry of sorrow.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Regretful one

[seren]

A counsellor's job is to listen and help you make decisions that work for you, both of you. It isn't the role of a counsellor to restrict anything you both decide on. TBH, I would change counsellors. H and I are over 9 yrs on from D Day and we are very happy. It took work, from us both, no counsellors, TBH most British people don't use counsellors in the same way some other countries seem to.

 

What worked for us was total honesty from H, I didn't check up on him or insist on passwords etc, if he was going to cheat, he would have found a way. I trusted him not to. My self esteem was in my boots and I was always a confident woman, yet it made me question my worth. H helped me to find that by making me feel loved, in small ways, a flower picked from the garden, a little treat he knew I would like, date nights, he woo'ed me all over agin, not in a pushy way, but in the way we had forgotten to do over our long marriage that sometimes gets lost in the day to day. He sent me funny text messages, he text me that he was thinking of me and that he loved me and it all helped me to feel special again.

 

He sometimes took the initiative to speak about how he was sorry, without me bringing it up, sometimes WS fear speaking about the A and how they feel incase they start something off, as a result a lot of times the BS feels they are always the one to begin the talk and that the WS isn't putting in the same commitment. Maybe agree how you both handle that, We both agreed that an hour was enough time to look back, we were concentrating on looking ahead.

 

Moving out wouldn't have worked for me, maybe you could sleep in the spare room, but the longer you establish a new routine of you not being at home, the harder it will be if you do reconcile and have to move back in together. If only for your child, you need routine.

 

I have to dash off now, but will read how it goes later. Honesty and remorse are the building blocks of reconciliation.

[Lion Heart]

Hmm im not so sure... we had lots of that in the first month. My wife told me sometimes we just needed a break from the pain and we would have sex as a way for her to have good feelings but she would tell me it was only a physical thing. Afterward she would tell me I needed to go back to my room. After a few of those times I wasn't sure it was healthy and my counselor also said that we should not be having sex unless it was to reconnect. It should be "making love" and connecting. If it was to "bond" then it would be helpful in our reconciliation. We agreed. Our counselor said "no sex" in our last meeting (until we talked to her about it first) and then here we have several rounds in one night. But my wife told me it was to connect and have that closeness again - not just a physical act so I went along with it. I am however anxious for any positive attention from my wife so I hope I didn't some how sabotage progress but spending the night at home per my wife's request.

 

In any event it didn't feel like a humiliation pick me type of sex. My wife did cry after the first time which our counselor told her she would probably do. But cry because of an emotional overflow - not cry of sorrow.

 

Woah I agree, sorry RO your counsellor really seems way off in la-la land with this stuff.

 

YOUR MAJOR understandings come from you as a couple IMO, Being sincere, honest and as transparent as possible.

 

Then obviously people here on LS who have already been on, sometimes, all sides of this. The helpful LS members anyway.

 

In ref to post #58.

"Peaks and valleys" I heard the emotional journey described for a BS. PERFECT description. Not a roller coaster for me. More like peaks and valleys in a tumble drier! Lol.

 

THE singularly most shocking thing I've experienced.

 

When I discovered that it was not just 3 months of lying and deceit but 12+ YEARS, woah then it helped my CLARITY to begin to evolve.

 

They say around 2 YEARS for a BS to get that Clarity..I thought that was ridiculous when I read it...I was still struggling with 1 affair 9 months after D Day.

I KNEW it was more by my conscience bothering me. I have dreams. Vivid, precise dreams. Yep sounds crazy! WH tried to make me feel like I was crazy. In the end when the sketchy timeline was given about each A, my vivid dreams matched his activities. Precisely.

 

So many WSs SAY their spouse had no idea.

But somewhere in their psyche....

 

Anyway I'm still very 'proud' of you lol by fully confessing without prompting.

 

Would you say that THIS was an attempt to create the depth of intimacy you craved but only from your W now? You had a conscience.

That's positive.

 

Many a day WH would come home in a panic ridden state. I'd try to help him. He was very cruel. He used this as a way to extract money from me. Berate me for stupid things. Basically mind f me. Later I found out that it was merely the crazy pressure of him LEADING A DOUBLE LIFE that made him like that. THEN he used it to manipulate me.

 

I will say that his CHOICES TO lead this parallel double life was all on him. He knew it was wrong. Everybody knows M means staying faithful to your spouse.

 

In culmination with the untapped FOO issues and his conscious DECISIONS TO do the thousands of ACTIONS required to invest himself in that other road, I believe honestly has created a Dissociative Personality Disorder. Split personality. He simply described EXACTLY what he goes through during discussions.

 

In my understandings of this disorder at least, UNLESS the individual CAN reconcile things in their minds early on, then the splits occur.

 

I'm glad for you, you came clean. I'm not saying you are any of these things but with all due respect, a huge effort at compartmentalizing was undertaken. And for you, this went on for years.

 

The amount of TIME and mental focus you must've invested in all those OW, guaranteed a very different M than one where you would've been fully present.

 

As I did, your BW would've just become acclimatized to this new you.

 

Just FYI from anything I write. I'm only trying to shed some light on SOME of the thoughts and feelings your BW MAY be going through.

It's not Gospel lol.

Simply MY experience.

I am trying to help you. I think you must be a persuasive personality. Strong and definitive in most matters.

Maybe your BW doesn't have the length of hindsight I've had, nor be able to articulate her feelings clearly yet.

So maybe she is or maybe she isn't going through similar but I hope it helps! :-)

 

Just a headsup in case this could be happening for your BW, I didn't LIKE the person I M when I found out. I used to say to him after D Day "Where is the H I married? An ogre came from hell and devoured him". He had that inside him.

 

Another thing, ANY sex is good sex between a couple in R or any M couple. 2 consenting adults who want to! I just don't care to understand your MC there.

I think it's beautiful that she wanted to be with you.

 

Sure! She could have RAs and I felt so angry that I WANTED TO HURT WH as much as I was hurt. But in his case, I realized that unless he had my heart and my commitment to him, he could never be hurt as I was.

 

Plus I thought it was just plain dumb! Lol.

Why infect an already terminally ill M with another incurable disease?

 

Basically I looked inward and realized that I COULDN'T have sex with any man unless I was in love with him.

So IF you have one of THOSE women. You're very lucky RO.

 

UNTIL I stopped loving WH, it was impossible for me to do that. WH brutally killed this R effort. As much as I warned him my love was running out, he just WASN'T PREPARED. That's all on him too.

 

From my POV YOU are doing the opposite and SHOULD.

NC is a bad idea.

 

And you just TELL the MC WHERE YOU want this to go and what you've done with no fear of retribution from her!

Your M needs SUPPORT NOT NC.

 

Our MC sacked us lol. You can find another one.

 

Gotta go. Great update!

Remember Peaks and Valleys.

Let her know that you'll hold her tight when she wants you. As long as YOU are ok with that.

 

I think it's progress too.

 

:-)

Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

Woah I agree, sorry RO your counsellor really seems way off in la-la land with this stuff.

 

YOUR MAJOR understandings come from you as a couple IMO, Being sincere, honest and as transparent as possible.

 

Then obviously people here on LS who have already been on, sometimes, all sides of this. The helpful LS members anyway.

 

In ref to post #58.

"Peaks and valleys" I heard the emotional journey described for a BS. PERFECT description. Not a roller coaster for me. More like peaks and valleys in a tumble drier! Lol.

 

Thank you for more of your input.

 

I think I make my counselor sound less helpful than she is. Time will tell but I do believe that she is helping. Its a matter of my wife wanting things more than my counselor telling us. I think she (therapist) just helps give my wife a voice. My wife says for several years she has just stayed quiet in our marriage to keep things less stressful.. which in turn reduced the connection I felt from her. It was a bad cycle as the connection is what I was lacking and wanting.

 

Input from others and you help me so it is appreciated. It is a complex mess of emotions that my wife has right now. She has no trust in me so even when I tell her I love her she questions it. Its very difficult to build any trust when there is nothing I can say that she believes.

 

 

They say around 2 YEARS for a BS to get that Clarity..I thought that was ridiculous when I read it...I was still struggling with 1 affair 9 months after D Day.

I KNEW it was more by my conscience bothering me. I have dreams. Vivid, precise dreams. Yep sounds crazy! WH tried to make me feel like I was crazy. In the end when the sketchy timeline was given about each A, my vivid dreams matched his activities. Precisely.

 

So many WSs SAY their spouse had no idea.

But somewhere in their psyche....

 

My wife has told me that she had no idea. Says she knew we had some problems but never had any idea.

 

She struggles today like she did 2 months ago.. in some ways it seems as though she struggles more. She tells me that she doesn't want a divorce but she isn't married right now and can't see me right now. Hard to hear that. She worked today and when she works she gets tired and that mixed with this is a bad combination it seems. I need to remember that so I don't lose hope.

 

 

Anyway I'm still very 'proud' of you lol by fully confessing without prompting.

 

Would you say that THIS was an attempt to create the depth of intimacy you craved but only from your W now? You had a conscience.

That's positive.

 

Interesting thought. In some ways yes for sure. I wanted my wife and I wanted her heart. I knew I didn't have it (a big reason was because I didn't love her as she deserved). I don't think I felt that she respected or admired me. I know she didn't seem proud of me and I was lost without that. I did what I thought a good husband should do. I am a really good father and our kids are all great kids that are thriving in life. I have my own firm and am successful providing for my family. My wife drives a newer car. I thought I was doing what I should yet she would never light up when I would walk into a room. She would never brag about me to others. I very much so wanted her to be proud of me looking back and never felt she did. Some of that was because of my own insecurities and some of that was because of the way I treated her.

 

I will say that his CHOICES TO lead this parallel double life was all on him. He knew it was wrong. Everybody knows M means staying faithful to your spouse.

 

I'm glad for you, you came clean. I'm not saying you are any of these things but with all due respect, a huge effort at compartmentalizing was undertaken. And for you, this went on for years.

 

The amount of TIME and mental focus you must've invested in all those OW, guaranteed a very different M than one where you would've been fully present.

 

As I did, your BW would've just become acclimatized to this new you.

 

No question it takes a huge effort. In many ways thats why it was a relief to confess. I don't think I would have even minded being caught. Its not like I was trying all that hard to hide it actually. I knew I was in a downward spiral and was wanting out of it all. I want nothing more than to make my future marriage a "10" and I know its possible.

 

There is a real "new me" waiting for my wife. It will take her time to trust it - I know this.

 

Just FYI from anything I write. I'm only trying to shed some light on SOME of the thoughts and feelings your BW MAY be going through.

It's not Gospel lol.

Simply MY experience.

I am trying to help you. I think you must be a persuasive personality. Strong and definitive in most matters.

Maybe your BW doesn't have the length of hindsight I've had, nor be able to articulate her feelings clearly yet.

So maybe she is or maybe she isn't going through similar but I hope it helps! :-)

 

It does help. I can't say precisely if my wife is having a different experience than anyone else. Bottom line she is very hurt. She considered me her best friend and has told me that she loves me and loved me and can't believe I did this to her. All I have at this point is the work I am doing to improve myself from within and my sincere motives to love her like she deserves for the rest of my life. I will never give up on my marriage. I will not be phased by her rejection nor lose hope when things look bleak. She has told me several times to not give up on her and I won't. I have been a shell of a true man for far to long and I have a level of fight in me that she has never seen the likes of. Tomorrow I am going to get up at 4:30 AM, drive the 35 minutes home just to take her some coffee and make her breakfast - leaving it in her car before she goes to work. I am pumped up. I will not rest. Then I will make dinner and leave it for her before she gets home. I don't know what else to do but I want her to know Ill do whatever I can to show her I won't give up.

 

Just a headsup in case this could be happening for your BW, I didn't LIKE the person I M when I found out. I used to say to him after D Day "Where is the H I married? An ogre came from hell and devoured him". He had that inside him.

 

I think there is some similarities perhaps. She has said that she loves me and hates me at the same time and it is very confusing to her. She has said that she wants no part of her previous husband as he was a _ _ _ _. She says she wants a new husband that will love her the way she deserves. She says she believes I can be that person but she needs to see it over an extended period of time.

 

Another thing, ANY sex is good sex between a couple in R or any M couple. 2 consenting adults who want to! I just don't care to understand your MC there.

I think it's beautiful that she wanted to be with you.

 

I tend to agree but early on my wife was wanting it for purely physical reasons.. Oddly enough we have never had intimacy problems. I tried to explain to her that "sex" wasn't the problem or why I sought an affair - I know many women will scoff at that statement but it is true. My wife is more attractive than the other two women were without question. I think my MC's concern was that my wife was wanting sex without attachment or connection. She was trying to hold sex till my wife could be open to opening herself up to that which she recently did. My wife is actually fairly sexual I guess as even when I discussed having weekly dates with her in the near future she mentioned that on her dates they would be geared towards having sex. lol

 

Sure! She could have RAs and I felt so angry that I WANTED TO HURT WH as much as I was hurt. But in his case, I realized that unless he had my heart and my commitment to him, he could never be hurt as I was.

 

Plus I thought it was just plain dumb! Lol.

Why infect an already terminally ill M with another incurable disease?

 

Basically I looked inward and realized that I COULDN'T have sex with any man unless I was in love with him.

So IF you have one of THOSE women. You're very lucky RO.

 

My wife has mentioned RAs a few times. I think in large part to give me a taste of what it would feel like. I try not to have any reaction and simply say I understand how she would want that and feel that way. My wife however is also a Christian and I don't believe would seek that. But she is also very very hurt so I wouldn't be completely shocked if it happened. She said it goes against her moral code and wouldn't do it. As you mention I think it would only serve to make things that much more difficult to reconcile if she did and deep down I believe my wife wants to reconcile.

 

UNTIL I stopped loving WH, it was impossible for me to do that. WH brutally killed this R effort. As much as I warned him my love was running out, he just WASN'T PREPARED. That's all on him too.

 

From my POV YOU are doing the opposite and SHOULD.

NC is a bad idea.

 

Did your Husband not try to reconcile and show remorse right away? did he confess or was he caught? I apologize if you already told me this bit of information. Again I appreciate (and others as well Im sure) that you and other BS are willing to offer advice and share your experiences. I imagine it is not easy.

 

A side note, my mother and father in law both who are still married and actually went through this very thing 30 years ago have talked to me a few times.. I had a meeting with them - just the three of us. They asked me some hard questions and I had to apologize to them for betraying their daughter as well as the trust they placed in me. The interesting thing is that we all cried - they told me that the pain they felt way back then comes back to the surface as they go through this with us now. It is a terrible thing. The fact I have caused it makes it that much more painful. Ive read that the pain compares to that of losing a child. There isn't a day that goes by I don't wish I could go back in time and make better choices.

 

And you just TELL the MC WHERE YOU want this to go and what you've done with no fear of retribution from her!

Your M needs SUPPORT NOT NC.

Lion Heart

 

My MC knows what I want. Ive told her (MC) that I want nothing other than to save my marriage and I told my MC that if she wasn't an advocate for my marriage that I would find someone else. That is not to say that she won't respect my wife's wants but Ive made that clear.

 

The NC that was suggested didn't even last a day. Perhaps it was a way for the MC to see what would happen? Maybe it was a way for my wife to have complete power as it limited my ability to talk to my wife. It seems as soon as we had a NC in place my wife could only last a day before she needed to reach out to me.

 

Anyway, thank you again for your time and thoughts.

[mikeylo]

Thank you for more of your input.

 

I think I make my counselor sound less helpful than she is. Time will tell but I do believe that she is helping. Its a matter of my wife wanting things more than my counselor telling us. I think she (therapist) just helps give my wife a voice. My wife says for several years she has just stayed quiet in our marriage to keep things less stressful.. which in turn reduced the connection I felt from her. It was a bad cycle as the connection is what I was lacking and wanting.

 

Input from others and you help me so it is appreciated. It is a complex mess of emotions that my wife has right now. She has no trust in me so even when I tell her I love her she questions it. Its very difficult to build any trust when there is nothing I can say that she believes.

 

 

 

 

My wife has told me that she had no idea. Says she knew we had some problems but never had any idea.

 

She struggles today like she did 2 months ago.. in some ways it seems as though she struggles more. She tells me that she doesn't want a divorce but she isn't married right now and can't see me right now. Hard to hear that. She worked today and when she works she gets tired and that mixed with this is a bad combination it seems. I need to remember that so I don't lose hope.

 

 

 

 

Interesting thought. In some ways yes for sure. I wanted my wife and I wanted her heart. I knew I didn't have it (a big reason was because I didn't love her as she deserved). I don't think I felt that she respected or admired me. I know she didn't seem proud of me and I was lost without that. I did what I thought a good husband should do. I am a really good father and our kids are all great kids that are thriving in life. I have my own firm and am successful providing for my family. My wife drives a newer car. I thought I was doing what I should yet she would never light up when I would walk into a room. She would never brag about me to others. I very much so wanted her to be proud of me looking back and never felt she did. Some of that was because of my own insecurities and some of that was because of the way I treated her.

 

 

 

 

 

No question it takes a huge effort. In many ways thats why it was a relief to confess. I don't think I would have even minded being caught. Its not like I was trying all that hard to hide it actually. I knew I was in a downward spiral and was wanting out of it all. I want nothing more than to make my future marriage a "10" and I know its possible.

 

There is a real "new me" waiting for my wife. It will take her time to trust it - I know this.

 

 

 

It does help. I can't say precisely if my wife is having a different experience than anyone else. Bottom line she is very hurt. She considered me her best friend and has told me that she loves me and loved me and can't believe I did this to her. All I have at this point is the work I am doing to improve myself from within and my sincere motives to love her like she deserves for the rest of my life. I will never give up on my marriage. I will not be phased by her rejection nor lose hope when things look bleak. She has told me several times to not give up on her and I won't. I have been a shell of a true man for far to long and I have a level of fight in me that she has never seen the likes of. Tomorrow I am going to get up at 4:30 AM, drive the 35 minutes home just to take her some coffee and make her breakfast - leaving it in her car before she goes to work. I am pumped up. I will not rest. Then I will make dinner and leave it for her before she gets home. I don't know what else to do but I want her to know Ill do whatever I can to show her I won't give up.

 

 

 

I think there is some similarities perhaps. She has said that she loves me and hates me at the same time and it is very confusing to her. She has said that she wants no part of her previous husband as he was a _ _ _ _. She says she wants a new husband that will love her the way she deserves. She says she believes I can be that person but she needs to see it over an extended period of time.

 

 

 

I tend to agree but early on my wife was wanting it for purely physical reasons.. Oddly enough we have never had intimacy problems. I tried to explain to her that "sex" wasn't the problem or why I sought an affair - I know many women will scoff at that statement but it is true. My wife is more attractive than the other two women were without question. I think my MC's concern was that my wife was wanting sex without attachment or connection. She was trying to hold sex till my wife could be open to opening herself up to that which she recently did. My wife is actually fairly sexual I guess as even when I discussed having weekly dates with her in the near future she mentioned that on her dates they would be geared towards having sex. lol

 

 

 

My wife has mentioned RAs a few times. I think in large part to give me a taste of what it would feel like. I try not to have any reaction and simply say I understand how she would want that and feel that way. My wife however is also a Christian and I don't believe would seek that. But she is also very very hurt so I wouldn't be completely shocked if it happened. She said it goes against her moral code and wouldn't do it. As you mention I think it would only serve to make things that much more difficult to reconcile if she did and deep down I believe my wife wants to reconcile.

 

 

 

Did your Husband not try to reconcile and show remorse right away? did he confess or was he caught? I apologize if you already told me this bit of information. Again I appreciate (and others as well Im sure) that you and other BS are willing to offer advice and share your experiences. I imagine it is not easy.

 

A side note, my mother and father in law both who are still married and actually went through this very thing 30 years ago have talked to me a few times.. I had a meeting with them - just the three of us. They asked me some hard questions and I had to apologize to them for betraying their daughter as well as the trust they placed in me. The interesting thing is that we all cried - they told me that the pain they felt way back then comes back to the surface as they go through this with us now. It is a terrible thing. The fact I have caused it makes it that much more painful. Ive read that the pain compares to that of losing a child. There isn't a day that goes by I don't wish I could go back in time and make better choices.

 

 

 

My MC knows what I want. Ive told her (MC) that I want nothing other than to save my marriage and I told my MC that if she wasn't an advocate for my marriage that I would find someone else. That is not to say that she won't respect my wife's wants but Ive made that clear.

 

The NC that was suggested didn't even last a day. Perhaps it was a way for the MC to see what would happen? Maybe it was a way for my wife to have complete power as it limited my ability to talk to my wife. It seems as soon as we had a NC in place my wife could only last a day before she needed to reach out to me.

 

Anyway, thank you again for your time and thoughts.

 

I've read only up to bolder part. When you are chatting up other women , how do expect anything from your spouse ? All your emotions and energy and thoughts are invested with those women then what is left for her ? A used man, who has nothing to give to her because he is giving everything that was her right to other women.

[Regretful one]

I've read only up to bolder part. When you are chatting up other women , how do expect anything from your spouse ? All your emotions and energy and thoughts are invested with those women then what is left for her ? A used man, who has nothing to give to her because he is giving everything that was her right to other women.

 

I am not chatting up other women. I haven't talked to any other woman since before I confessed to my wife. At this point none of my emotions, energy or thoughts are invested in any other women. Im not sure what you are referring to.

 

I understand what I did was wrong and took away from my relationship with my wife - that in large part is why I stopped doing it months ago. I don't think you understand my situation - Im not "chatting up" anyone.

[mikeylo]

I am not chatting up other women. I haven't talked to any other woman since before I confessed to my wife. At this point none of my emotions, energy or thoughts are invested in any other women. Im not sure what you are referring to.

 

I understand what I did was wrong and took away from my relationship with my wife - that in large part is why I stopped doing it months ago. I don't think you understand my situation - Im not "chatting up" anyone.

 

Since you've chatted up other women most part of your married life and failed to see why your wife's face didn't light up on seeing you , I guess it's a lost cause. It's very likely that whatever effort she made all the time to connect to you but didn't get it reciprocated ( as you were busy elsewhere), she might block you out emotionally.

 

She now must be having things to deal that set her back in time -- the triggers. Have you removed all the triggers ? One of my sister's husband cheated on her with one of his female ' friends '. He had plenty. He gave up the affair but never gave up the ' friends '. He called her controlling because he had every right to have female friends. He just didn't get it. My sisters trigger were those ' friends ' with whom he had ' sisterly ' relations where he grabbed them by their waist, gave a lip smooch , laughed on ' private , inner ' jokes. He just didn't get it. She left him. He is now sees a psychiatric because he can't handle her gone as no other woman takes his BS that he gives. She found a decent guy who knows how to do relationships , boundaries , respect and yes, doesn't chase skirts.

 

Eta : he always chose them over her. In their presence, he used to drop her like a hot potato and come back to her once had his fill with the ' friends '. Yeah, I do have much disgust myself for such men. I'm a married guy and have put my wife and relationship before everything. No ' friend ' is worth losing what I have. Because i know , it's easier to keep trust rather than gain it.

 

Most people lose it easily and fail to rebuild. It's easier to stay in fantasy than live reality.

Edited October 11, 2016 by mikeylo

[Lion Heart]

RO I think a huge thing I've certainly grappled with as a BW was the WH constant insistence "but I'm not doing THAT anymore".

 

Here stands an incredibly interesting juxtaposition?

 

To many a betrayed spouse YOU DID AND SO YOU ARE.

 

To many a wayward spouse I DID DO THAT IN THE PAST BUT I WON'T DO IT ANYMORE.

 

To a "fresh" BS there just isn't any difference AT ALL.

They only JUST FOUND OUT and so it IS THIS WAY.

YOU are still a cheat in their minds.

I guess like a criminal charged is always going to be a criminal type of concept.

 

But it's not like a BS CAN CONCEPTUALIZE at all!

The emotions and deep grief of betrayal and the dual person they are trying to integrate into their NEW knowledge of you. Nothing fits! Nothing makes SENSE.

NOTHING.

 

We cannot ascertain that THAT WAS THE PAST you and THIS IS THE NEW YOU.

 

To a BS you were you all along WHILE doing all that garbage of As AT THE same time.

 

It's completely mind-f***ing. Sorry but that is a psychological term.

 

Just to integrate your previous post with your response to mine, WHEN a WS THEN WANTS to reconcile.... for me it's like WTF ARE YOU ON BUDDY? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

WHY? Ohh because you lerve me? Uh. No. That is NOT love.

Because NOW you want to work on the M?

Why when you devastated it.

I'll be honest, it was worse than insulting. It was comical. He made a circus of his M to me.

Whilst I managed to keep my legs together in the same lonely M.

IT WAS LONELY BECAUSE WH had plenty of OW.

Whenever I wanted any type of intimacy he went so dar as to say "Move. Get out of my way. I'm happy" and continued to ignore me. Shut me out.

Unless he wanted money ofcourse.

 

I felt EXACTLY as your BW felt. I was not married anymore after I found out. In fact I went WAAAAY back to the first time WH had his tongue or fingers or protruding little fella out for an OW and said THAT'S THE MOMENT YOU DIVORCED Me! Ooops and forgot to tell me.

 

I'm trying to be clear and explicit only from my POV.

 

I'm applauding your efforts. They're admirable.

 

I will say that exWH thought ALL along that I'd never D him. That I truly wanted the M to work. To reconcile etc. And I most definitely did! To a point.

I was done within 30m of my D Day. It was him sliding back like a snake lol that made me IDK WATCH HIM I guess.

 

So from that moment I watched him closely.

Observed ALL the revolting habits of his re-OW.

Slammed shut the free atm which gave him no end of anxiety lol.

 

Made some rules to suit me for a complete change.

Got locks put on my bedroom door immediately.

Bathroom too. Etc. When he gave me too much lip, I kicked him out. I never had done ANYTHING near kick him out during our M.

 

WH just didn't respect BOUNDARIES. Of any woman's. Especially not mine.

 

The R. Yes he wanted to reconcile but ALL on his terms.

If I copied the original list you'd be horrified.

He whittled down to just extremely entitled not WILDLY entitled lol.

 

None of anything was clear to him. He was a complete mess.

 

Basically after ALL the OW came out. 9 months after D Day. After an especially vivid dream of mine where he knew I must have a satellite dish to God lol. Oh plus a lie detector test booked :-). Then more garbage. Then his disclosure that he was using IC to battle his gambling addiction NOT his addiction to OW bc apparently THAT was solved.

 

Ummmm lol.

 

I was done.

 

About your questions to me if exWH confessed? Lol. No. I don't see that he did. The OW forced him to tell me or she would drive around to my house that night and tell me herself. SHE KNEW WHERE WE LIVED...dada da dumm. Lol. Nutbags.

 

So he told me by phone when I was at the gym watching our 9yo D. Then told our 12yo twin sons himself and packed his truck with everything he owned and drove off.

Pretty much his wormlike style.

 

OW had been threatening him for over a month. In that month HE WAS THE most devoted H awwwww. Even mowed the lawn! All our family kept asking what got into him. Eldest D said "What's he done wrong and hasn't told you?".

 

Yep. Just mind-fg stuff as per usual.

 

SO as he was all UP and down about his all about towns OWs doing all sorts for years.....There's no way that doesn't effect the M the cheating spouse is in. Especially on their faithful partner.

 

And well and truly all exWHs OW were as ugly as bat stuff lol. I COULDN'T BELIEVE IT. All of them were way older than both of us. He is 5y younger than me. One was 30y older than him. ALL of them unemployed. ALL of them with very ugly noticeable features that he wouldn't be seen dead with at any of his family dos.

 

The one who busted it open was "too far gone" he said. In too deep was another description. These were indicators that told me he'd done it before.

 

None of them had money.

Nor property.

Nor jobs. Let alone high paying jobs like mine.

 

Not that it's important to me. But it's damned important to HIM!

 

The fact that OW 1 which was really number 25 or 25432 who cares lol. She was really obese. He hated overweight people. Always carries on and on about them.

 

HE WAS SO OBVIOUSLY USING THEM..

 

THAT was a specific huge nail in the coffin of our R for me.

His behaviours towards them.

The levels of blatant disrespect and utter disregard for THEIR feelings disgusted me. Made me sick to my stomach.

 

To know this about him truly sickened me.

 

I would have felt BETTER if he'd have fallen in love with his only OW and ran off to be happily ever after.

 

At least then I'd know it was a M worth losing.

 

The important factor for me the whole of R was asking him WHY HE WANTED to stay!

 

It was not for love at all. It was for his position as "father" and "husband". He loved me calling him my husband.

Lol.

 

As my previous WH I DID not allow his fiancée to go in blind. I told her. She thought she could change future WH lol. She's put up with nothing but hell in a M with a serial cheater.

 

I fully intend on forewarning this exWH future gfs if they stick around for very long. Which they do not! Smart girls!

They ought to know that if he could do that with those to his devoted W, gorgeous twin boys and sweet daughter. Plus my / our other 3. Not much chance unless she's rich enough for 24 /7 surveillance lol.

 

I've a very strong feeling for the sisterhood going on.

I'd want the same told to me.

I've always dobbed cheating spouses in to their partners.

BECAUSE I would want the same for me.

 

Do unto others kinda thing?

And my parents were Missionaries. Funny how some behave though.... for another post RO. lol. No I'm not a practising Christian. I do believe in a God though. And loved Jesus' life lessons and many others lol.

 

I think it's AWESOME you doing the up at 4:30am thingy!

Well done.

 

In a strange way I really want to see a successful R work out. Hence my oblique vested interest in your understandings now.

 

If for ANYTHING I really hope that my horrid experience gives you some insight into what COULD be going through BW mind and emotions right now. In the singular effort that it DOES help.

 

NC was always a bad idea.

We could pull apart the "proud of me" part??? Still needs for external gratification somewhere?

 

When someone doesn't believe me and I know I'm telling the truth, I stop soon after and say "The important thing is that ME and MY God know. That's enough for me:-)"

I walk that way with anything I do at all.

I just don't need external praise.

 

It kinda feels weird tbh. I wasn't raised that way. I simply don't need it.

 

Lion Heart

[aileD]

Here's what I struggled with....your wife may feel the same.

 

I have been with my husband since we were 17. Part of what I loved about him was that he was kind, he was honest, he had integrity--I mean he wouldn't even cheat in a game of cards even--, he spoke highly of me to others, and he always spoke about connection and commitment and being together forever, family was important, he bragged about how we met..our story... I never ever ever would have ever expected him to cheat.

 

Then he cheated.

 

It's like I didn't know who he was anymore. A lot of the things I admired in him turned out to just not be there anymore. I was in love with his integrity...but now he's a cheater. I was in love with his kindness-- but now he betrayed me.

 

It is SO DIFFICULT for your wife to reconcile the person you really are now, with who you were before. Yes you have regrets, you see the mistakes you made...that's admirable. But. You're still the person who's capable of betraying the one person who was supposed to be able to count on you.

 

It takes a lot. A lot of work, a lot of forgiveness. You're a stranger now to her, she needs to learn the new you. The flawed you. She needs to see if she can love this new you.

 

I forgave. Like I said earlier, my husband has some issues in his past that I can see clearly how those issues affected how he loves, his feelings of worth, the importance of sex and other things.

 

I forgave too easily. We never did the work to improve things. He never dealt with his past. Then 12 years later (now) he cheated again.

 

This time is different. I am devastated but I knew he was capable of it. Long story short, we are reconciling and finally doing the work to improve not only ourselves but our marriage....which we should have done from the start.

 

Your wife is reeling. She doesn't know who you are anymore. Words are nice, actions are nice. But it just doesn't take away what you did. It doesn't take replace the security. The exclusiveness. The bond you had. The feeing of you two as ONE.

 

That's gone and can never truly be reclaimed, just rebuilt

 

This is why reconciliation can take so long

[mikeylo]

Lion, that is the issue. Most WS want the situation to go back to the day before D day and that too very quickly. Most even don't stop doing what they had been doing , just get better at covering up or gas lighting. The latter mostly. Because now the BS is hypervigilant and WS doesn't like it , it's easier to gaslight. The circle never ends. Patience of WS gets thinner with each day.

 

OP, I'm continuation to what I wrote earlier , you were busy lighting up other women's faces and lives while your spouse was sitting with a sad/confused face. You can't lighten it up in few days and that also by NC.

[Lion Heart]

Here's what I struggled with....your wife may feel the same.

 

I have been with my husband since we were 17. Part of what I loved about him was that he was kind, he was honest, he had integrity--I mean he wouldn't even cheat in a game of cards even--, he spoke highly of me to others, and he always spoke about connection and commitment and being together forever, family was important, he bragged about how we met..our story... I never ever ever would have ever expected him to cheat.

 

Then he cheated.

 

It's like I didn't know who he was anymore. A lot of the things I admired in him turned out to just not be there anymore. I was in love with his integrity...but now he's a cheater. I was in love with his kindness-- but now he betrayed me.

 

It is SO DIFFICULT for your wife to reconcile the person you really are now, with who you were before. Yes you have regrets, you see the mistakes you made...that's admirable. But. You're still the person who's capable of betraying the one person who was supposed to be able to count on you.

 

It takes a lot. A lot of work, a lot of forgiveness. You're a stranger now to her, she needs to learn the new you. The flawed you. She needs to see if she can love this new you.

 

I forgave. Like I said earlier, my husband has some issues in his past that I can see clearly how those issues affected how he loves, his feelings of worth, the importance of sex and other things.

 

I forgave too easily. We never did the work to improve things. He never dealt with his past. Then 12 years later (now) he cheated again.

 

This time is different. I am devastated but I knew he was capable of it. Long story short, we are reconciling and finally doing the work to improve not only ourselves but our marriage....which we should have done from the start.

 

Your wife is reeling. She doesn't know who you are anymore. Words are nice, actions are nice. But it just doesn't take away what you did. It doesn't take replace the security. The exclusiveness. The bond you had. The feeing of you two as ONE.

 

That's gone and can never truly be reclaimed, just rebuilt

 

This is why reconciliation can take so long

 

AileD that's horrible. Ugh. I can't imagine that pain.

 

R the first time was hard enough.

R a second? Phew.

 

It's different for every BS it MUST be! Lol. But the story behind each BS (not the cheater themselves) is a story to behold and learn from.

 

I'm about to commence a 10w Course on such and APPARENTLY we're pretty much the SAME TYPES OF PERSONALITIES.

 

Apparently. I'll let you know what I learn!

 

AlieD are there ANY CONSEQUENCES for a repeat offense that you are WILLING to follow through on?

 

I think that fear paralyzes a BS into R at times.

Fear of all sorts of things. Some guaranteed and some imaginary.

 

To avoid completely t/j ing lol RO are you reading? Lol. Too busy with brekky I hope!

 

FEAR within a BS can sometimes fool them into R.

I will say that because fear (and I know I have to start my own thread lol there were many fears I had) plus the unfolding knowledge of WH as a cheater, sent me into a stupor. I was virtually paralyzed with grief, fear AND my certain knowledge of the future if we separated.

 

RO what is

A) your BW holding on FOR?

B) what is she AFRAID of?

 

ExWH used any and ALL techniques he could muster to perpetuate my FEARS. It worked for a while.

 

My CLARITY came over many months.

 

It didn't truly begin until after I got him out.

He was THAT GOOD at manipulation. Gaslighting. Etc etc etc lol etc!

 

Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

Here's what I struggled with....your wife may feel the same.

 

I have been with my husband since we were 17. Part of what I loved about him was that he was kind, he was honest, he had integrity--I mean he wouldn't even cheat in a game of cards even--, he spoke highly of me to others, and he always spoke about connection and commitment and being together forever, family was important, he bragged about how we met..our story... I never ever ever would have ever expected him to cheat.

 

Then he cheated.

 

It's like I didn't know who he was anymore. A lot of the things I admired in him turned out to just not be there anymore. I was in love with his integrity...but now he's a cheater. I was in love with his kindness-- but now he betrayed me.

 

It is SO DIFFICULT for your wife to reconcile the person you really are now, with who you were before. Yes you have regrets, you see the mistakes you made...that's admirable. But. You're still the person who's capable of betraying the one person who was supposed to be able to count on you.

 

It takes a lot. A lot of work, a lot of forgiveness. You're a stranger now to her, she needs to learn the new you. The flawed you. She needs to see if she can love this new you.

 

I forgave. Like I said earlier, my husband has some issues in his past that I can see clearly how those issues affected how he loves, his feelings of worth, the importance of sex and other things.

 

I forgave too easily. We never did the work to improve things. He never dealt with his past. Then 12 years later (now) he cheated again.

 

This time is different. I am devastated but I knew he was capable of it. Long story short, we are reconciling and finally doing the work to improve not only ourselves but our marriage....which we should have done from the start.

 

Your wife is reeling. She doesn't know who you are anymore. Words are nice, actions are nice. But it just doesn't take away what you did. It doesn't take replace the security. The exclusiveness. The bond you had. The feeing of you two as ONE.

 

That's gone and can never truly be reclaimed, just rebuilt

 

This is why reconciliation can take so long

 

Thank you for the post. A lot of what you said makes sense and Ive heard similar things from my wife. While I had flaws she didn't like we were a team. We have been married for almost 22 years and we really relied on each other. In large part I think she too loved that I was a rock for her - something she could always count on. Then this happens and that security is gone. She has told me that she wanted me to her self. She didn't ever want to share me and thats what I promised her. As you said she has told me she doesn't know me now. The person who did this isn't 'the person she thought she was married to. On the bright side I am doing the work to improve myself and deal with the issues I never have. Im also more than eager to work on all of our relationship issues once my wife is ready. Right now its like I can't get enough counseling - I wish I could go 2-3 times a week. Being patient has to be one of the most difficult parts of this for me.

 

So you have been through this 12 years ago and then again now? Did your Husband confess to you? I assume he must be remorseful? My wife will ask me how she could ever know that I would never do this again. That is a difficult question to answer. I can say I will never (which is true in my mind) but to her I am just a liar. I explain that I confessed when I didn't have to and I have been in counseling - something Ive never done before. I am making life changes and that is how I know I will never do this again. But obviously it is still hard for a BS to believe and I understand that.

 

I was at my home a few days ago and needed to replace a couple light bulbs that had burned out. Took the ladder upstairs and left it in the spare bedroom as I needed to buy bulbs and replace on my next visit. My wife saw the ladder and noticed I had put it against the wall below the attic access. She texted me later that day convinced I was hiding something in the attic. She assumes I am up to something all the time. I hate that she has absolutely no trust for me now but I understand why.

[Regretful one]

Lion, that is the issue. Most WS want the situation to go back to the day before D day and that too very quickly. Most even don't stop doing what they had been doing , just get better at covering up or gas lighting. The latter mostly. Because now the BS is hypervigilant and WS doesn't like it , it's easier to gaslight. The circle never ends. Patience of WS gets thinner with each day.

 

OP, I'm continuation to what I wrote earlier , you were busy lighting up other women's faces and lives while your spouse was sitting with a sad/confused face. You can't lighten it up in few days and that also by NC.

 

Im not the WS you describe. Wanting to go back to the day before D day isn't me or something Id want. I confessed to my wife when I didn't have to. I never want to go back to the day before D day as it was one of the unhappiest days of my life. Ive also completely stopped everything I was doing. I am alone in my apartment and if I wanted to Id have an easy time doing any of it. So you may know what most WS do and why but you don't know me and there is not a continuing circle here.

 

I understand it takes time and things aren't fixed in a "few days". That doesn't change the fact Im anxious to work on things however. I don't have expectations of my wife all the sudden waking up one morning and saying ok all is forgiven now. I understand it takes time. I am optimistic and believe God can move mountains.

[Regretful one]

RO what is

A) your BW holding on FOR?

B) what is she AFRAID of?

 

ExWH used any and ALL techniques he could muster to perpetuate my FEARS. It worked for a while.

 

My CLARITY came over many months.

 

It didn't truly begin until after I got him out.

He was THAT GOOD at manipulation. Gaslighting. Etc etc etc lol etc!

 

Lion Heart

 

A) Hmm what is my wife holding on for? Well in my opinion my wife is wanting to reconcile for a number of reasons:

*She loves me

*wants to keep our family intact

*believes that I am making the needed changes (has said several times I will be a really good husband in the future even if not with her).

*Deep down she knows we had an amazing life together to this point even though it is tarnished.

*Faith in God and not wanting to give up on her marriage.

 

B) What is my wife afraid of? I think more than anything my wife is afraid that I would do it again. Obviously no BS would want to go through this pain again. It goes back to your analogy earlier of would you want to marry someone who was a serial cheater. I believe this holds my wife back more than anything right now. She isn't at a place where she can forgive me just yet. I think in her mind forgiving me means she is ready to start the process of reconciling and she can't do that yet.

 

I am not "Gas-lighting" - attempting to manipulate my wife or doubt her memory that I see. I do not try to prey on her fears. I tell her that if she did divorce me I could still be happy yet I won't ever give up on us. I think she gets clarity as well now that I have moved out of our home but she misses me - I know this. I think having me not living in the house and having full control over our communication and when we see each other allows her to deal with things on her terms. Certain times of the day are harder for her than others. On occasion she will say she needs to shelf this topic for a while so she can rest. I respect the way she is dealing with things and let her steer the bus. The only type of manipulation if you want to call it that which I guess you could say I was doing is I want my wife to miss me. When I go home I do chores (ones I used to do and ones I didn't and do them without making sure she knows like I used to). I did all the cooking in our marriage and am pretty good so when I go home and my wife lets me I make meals that I know she loves. When we make love I know what works for her and am sure to do those things. I guess you could say Im just trying to do absolutely everything as good as I can so at least a little of my ugliness might be taken away if only for a moment. If that is manipulation than I am guilty of that.

 

*UPDATE*

So yesterday was a dang long day. I was up at 4:30AM, drove to my house in time to make my wife breakfast and see her off to work - she left at 5:30. I hung out, worked out etc. till my daughter went to school at 7:30. Went back to my apartment and work. Then back home later in the day to do some chores and make dinner. The plan was to eat with my daughter and leave a plate for my wife (I have been leaving 5 minutes before my wife gets home per her request on the days I was over there with my daughter). But my wife suggested I stay for dinner and talk. She was a little mean to me on text before this and actually apologized to me for being a Bi_ch. Not that I retaliated or tried to make her feel guilty for it but I really liked the fact that she is starting to care about things like that. Anyway I made her a great dinner and then we talked for a while before ending up in our bedroom. My wife told me I still needed to leave after and I didn't complain. I figure thats twice in one weeks time and has to be a positive. I guess my wife texted our MC about the fact that we have been talking and even spent the night together a few days after our last session where NC was suggested. The MC said that was no problem. I think the MC was suggesting the NC in large part to see what would happen. Because my wife is in control of this I think it all suggests a step in the right direction towards reconciliation.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Regretful one