Praying for reconciliation

[Lion Heart]

Thank you! I own this. I have told my wife several times (including today when she asked what she could have done to prevent this) that it had nothing to do with her or her love (or lack of) for me. It was a 100% selfish act and nothing she did or didn't do would justify what I did.

 

 

 

No, don't be sorry. IT was a good suggestion. My wife will find many things to go off on (and rightfully so). I am willing to bet that she will eventually ask me about the GPS app and tell me to get it. lol.

 

 

 

In my case the AP was an escape. You are right there is no issues of life to deal with. No discussions about finances. No discussions about issues with the kids.. etc. etc.. its all about an ego boost. A selfish escape.

 

 

 

Turns out what she wanted to know wasn't the sexual details I had assumed she wanted.. What she wanted to know is where my mind was and when I started to take those small steps towards what ended up being an affair. We talked for 2 hours face to face about this. As hard as it was to answer some of her questions she used her voice. She was not emotional and she asked very specific questions. I answered openly and honestly and felt like my answer wouldn't be a deal breaker which was very good. Then we went together to our counseling session which was a joke. We spent 75% of the session talking about the birth of our first born son. lol. We left the session laughing our arses off say wtf was that. Maybe our counselor is just trying to get us to team up I don't know but it worked. We ended up laughing so hard we cried. First time in months and first time since D day we laughed like that by making fun of our counselor.

 

After that we went back to my apartment. Just the two of us. We made love again and talked and then went to dinner. I love this woman so damn much. She has told me (and our counselor) that she no longer considers divorce as an option and wants to pursue reconciliation. She isn't ready for me to move back home and I'm not pressuring her for that at all. Im just ecstatic that she openly tells me she wants to be married to me. Im glad that we are building a foundation of open honesty now. I know I don't deserve this opportunity but Im thankful for it.

 

Now she is questioning our counseling. We feel like we are doing more on our own than we d0 with her. Perhaps our counselor is smarter than we realize and her thoughts and assignments are working in some sort of weird psychological way I don't know. She is now open to doing some sort of weekend get away for intense infidelity counseling. The one we are looking at is the EMS weekend put on by affairrecovery.com its pricy but right now I don't care about costs. I think it could help us to get actual infidelity counsel by counselors who specialize in infidelity.

 

Yes! DO the weekend away Infidelity Course.

No wife swapping lol.

 

Ummm I think your MC has run out of help for you.

See previous post to ask yourself stuff. And getting your act together as a M couple would be awesome!

 

Having a M where BOTH people are healthy and fulfilled is a good aim. I'm concerned going forward about the balance of power thingy I mentioned.

 

BE STRONG!

 

Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

RO I smiled at laughed with you at your last post. I'm very happy for you both! Ofcourse!

 

Wow.. that was quite the post LH. Thank you. I wanted to comment or follow up with a few things you mentioned.

 

SACK YOUR MC! LOL.

You need a different one as we said a while back? (Sorry if I'm confusing things. I'm trying to hold a few points in this head of mine! Lol).

 

We can ALL discuss your MC later ROFL.

 

Yes starting to think that too. The counselor did help me as an individual especially early on so I don't want to give up just yet - in part because she knows all the crap and history and the thought of trying to catch a new counselor up is daunting. But my wife was fairly depressed about it and this morning told me she feels like she needs help. Feels like this is an emergency and not getting help right now. So I know we need to do something!

 

 

Please ALWAYS ANSWER FRANKLY and honestly ANY QUESTIONS AT ALL your BW has. Don't ask the MC first.

Have COURAGE. BE BRAVE.

 

I was a BW that HAD to have all thr details of everything.

 

Yes it hurt ALOT but I couldn't sleep either way. I'd rather be slapped in the face with the truth than kissed with a lie is what is written here.

Though I believe you can't remember SOME things. You were afraid to tell your BW anything she asked?

 

REVERSE that thought immediately.

 

Ok here was what I was dealing with. It wasn't that I was afraid to tell her details or provide any of the information she wanted it was that Ive read and heard from several BS say that they wished they didn't have all the sexual details. It created a movie in their minds they could never get rid of. Several BS said they regretted getting all those details. They needed to know the basics like how many times, how long, was protection used, what did they look like etc. etc. but they said they didn't need to know positions and other x-rated type details. Anyway, that was what I was trying to be cautious with and saying maybe we should ask our MC if those questions would benefit her or if they would be regretted. As it turned out my wife didn't want to know those details. I just told my wife if she really needed to know I would tell her anything she wanted to know.

 

Ok the devil I get it. Not lol. But you are ofcourse allowed your way of believing how YOU THOUGHT then CREATED and then ACTED. Buddy that's all on you.

 

Yes I don't want you or anyone else reading this (including my wife if she ends up reading this) thinking that I am in any way trying to pass any blame off on someone (or something) else. The "devil" was my own selfish desires. Its all mine. I own it all. NO one forced me to do anything I made the choice to do what I did all by my little ole self.

 

There are things extremely similar to you and I in more ways than you know. Childhood - same. Yes same mother / child experience.

 

But there's no way on earth that I would ever blame my mother nor childhood experiences on ACTIONS I CONSCIOUSLY CHOSE to do in my 20s, 30s etcetera.

 

In fact I looked FORWARD to turning 18yo and DEFINITIVELY stood up to myself and said LEAVE that behind and take full responsibility from now on...or similar lol.

 

I understand how childhood may mold a person but I also took those experiences and used them as STRENGTHS. Converting them. As you can do too.

 

Im sorry you had crap to go through as well. As my counselor told me early on, there are distinct positives that come out of a dark childhood. It often creates ambition and desires to do better and get out of that situation. Does it force you to work hard and be something? Of course not just like the bad crap doesn't force you to make a terrible choice.

 

Again I am NOT blaming anything on anyone. I made the choices I made. 6 years ago I would have told someone else the exact same thing you said here. I believed I had never allowed my poor childhood to affect me in any way and I converted it all into strengths. I could not imagine ever cheating on my wife and felt that anyone who would do such a thing was of very low character. My insecurities and and self hate which in large part stemmed from my childhood is not the reason i committed adultery. It did however manifest itself in ways that made it much easier for me to make the poor choices I made. I don't know how else to explain it. Perhaps it still sounds like I am trying to blame other things - if so thats not my intent. I chose to do this just as I could have chose not to.

 

I'm so happy for your R. Know this.

 

Thank you! I am happy for you as well LH. I can tell by your words (and the words of other BS here) that this hurt isn't something you can just get over. It is a scar that lasts a life time. Im glad you found a BF that you are excited about and happy with. Im sure your WH will at some point if he hasn't already realize the amazing person he has lost and it will haunt him for the rest of his days.

 

 

* by saying the As were all on you it's only THEN YOU ARE taking full responsibility.

* I hope you're not playing the pity card to anybody about your childhood. It happened yes. You need to nurture the hurt little boy inside. Absolutely! YOU need to be the person who is proud of HIM and you right now. Facing up is fantastic.

 

Again, the As were all 100% me. I was only attempting to paint the picture for you (and my wife) of where my mind was at and why. She often asks me why. My only way of answering that question is to try and explain where my mind was at. My mind was full of insecurities, self hate, shame etc.. I did NOT just set out to ruin my life and hurt the woman I love in the most terrible way. There was a slow process and a selfish mindset that was created over time. I take full responsibility but it I didn't just wake up one day and decide to cheat on my wife.

 

I am not trying to play the pity card at all. I think some of this has gone off the rails. I am not looking for anyone including my wife to feel sorry for me. My affairs were not done in a vacuum. There were other factors in involved. By talking about all of those issues and things that played a role I am better able to understand and prevent in the future.

 

 

* sorry I completely disagree with your summation of the difficulty of your situation being alone as opposed to being BACK in the home and M. THAT'S WHERE and when all those thoughts and behaviours existed in your HOME and in that M. It's then IMHO that you'll find more wandering thoughts going on because it's that SAFETY net you were spring boarding from. The analogy of drug addict...You'll be back in the drug den. Now is the FRESHNESS of second chances and hope. M is back to monotony lol and other "stuff".

Please guard your thoughts there.

 

Ok you make a valid point here. I can't argue with it.

 

* quitting porn and online voyeurism cold turkey is great but WHAT will you be REPLACING these behaviours with?

 

Ok never looking at porn wasn't an addiction or something I did much of. My problems lay less in the sexual realm and more in the feeling admired, wanted, loved places. So its that part I need to watch. Im not like a lot of guys perhaps... I was addicted to relationships, connections, conversations....

 

* I kind of understand the x rated excitement "need" and if that was satisfied ONLY OUTSIDE your M then please, you need to find SOME way to have this happening INSIDE your M with your WIFE. My husband really had the whole "Madonna / whore" complex issue going on with me.

The OWs were the w words (which is a very disgusting attitude IMHO) so he USED them for all that "dirty stuff". There was also ALOT of excitement in the CHASE and LAND (amygdala lol) thing operating in him. He had GIGS which is funny because he hates his life now. Great! Lol.

But he relegated me to the Madonna side yuck! He was SO DROLL with me it was horribly boring.

ExWH just COULDN'T reconcile the two concepts in his mind into ONE woman. In fact he called me disgusting for suggesting we do something he did with an OW.

 

While there was a sexual element to the affairs it wasn't the sex that I felt I was after. I recall even thinking during the physical affair that the actual sex was better with my wife. I am very satisfied with the sexual relationship with my wife. I don't even feel like we need to change anything at all. Everyone is rolling their eyes at me now but my affairs was not about the sex.

 

I just hope that your R effort doesn't land you both back in the same field.

Sure your BW wants a FAR BETTER M..BUT what does that LOOK like for BOTH of you???

Your list.

Her list.

 

We have talked about what it looks like some. She asks me what the "new me" will be like. What our new marriage will look like. I try to answer honestly and say Im still a very imperfect human and I will make mistakes and fail her in many ways. NOT like this but I will still piss her of from time to time. I will however love her like never before. Put her needs before my own. Swim through shark infested waters to bring her a glass of lemonade. Most importantly I will work hard to give her a safe place to have her voice in our marriage. Its what she lost and what I as it turns out missed most even though it was me by my actions that caused her to close up.

 

And now to the ED....just joking. I'd have those pills anyway because you NEVER KNOW!

 

Ok I'm really regretting ever mentioning the ED lol.. It was ONE time. lol No problem yesterday morning.

 

In summary, it may NOT have been all about the SEX in your As but pull the whole thing apart until you DO KNOW exactly what the huge motivations were and do not leave those needs nor wants vacant.

 

Bingo! Yes that is key. And as mentioned above... I want to feel appreciated, admired, loved etc.. and my wife had lost some of those feelings for me because of the way I treated her. I want those things from her for sure but the way I get them is be loving her unconditionally the way she deserves. I know that now.

 

It's a time to reassess the BALANCE OF POWER in the relationship. She may always have the power in many ways now BUT you cannot feel like a the little boy vying for mummy's love ANYMORE.

 

Yeah right now its primarily all about meeting her needs whatever they may be for obvious reasons but in time I think things will level out and we will be a team and a 50-50 partnership submitting to each other. As He intended.

 

Please don't feel sorry for me! God must've had his hand in ALL of this. I'm so happy!

 

Wow.. just reread what you wrote to yourself. Its about time right? Life is short. Be happy.

 

BTW my parents were Missionaries and my wayward father cheated on my mother in the worst possible scenario I can imagine. ExWH family think themselves VERY Christian indeed EX wayward father in law is a filthy perverted serial cheater. Unrepentant.

 

Unfortunately no one is immune from the ability to do terrible things. Christians as you point out fail in their lives just as any non Christians do. Judge not less ye be judged. Only one perfect human has walked this earth.

[Regretful one]

If you do it EMS please let me know how it is ! We want to do it too but it's just not in our price range at all... I'm out of work right now too.

 

You can do the online boot camp too for free.

 

I have to say the affair recovery website and YouTube has been THE one resource that has truly helped us. They know, they've been there. They even say that conventional counseling only works to a point if they do not specialize in infidelity and all it's intricacies. We so enjoy their topics and perspectives

 

I'm glad things are going well and divorce is off the table! your story gives hope to so many.

 

Will do. Its pricy ($3,700 I think?). Im looking into it. My wife is willing now to go and even though its not inexpensive neither is a divorce! So Im willing to sell my motorcycle or take out of retirement or something if need be. But I want to be sure its worth the investment! They also have a home version which I think might be good too.

 

Thank YOU for pointing me into the direction of this website again. I came across it early on but I never saw the video blogs which are FANTASTIC. Ive sent several to my wife (including the one you suggested I send to her) and they have been well received by her. So thank you.

[BTDT2012]

Glad things are going well. I would like to caution you however that it is still a rollercoaster. You wife will likely still have some bad days. I had a period of mourning for the marriage that we had. Don't give up.

[Regretful one]

Glad things are going well. I would like to caution you however that it is still a rollercoaster. You wife will likely still have some bad days. I had a period of mourning for the marriage that we had. Don't give up.

 

Thank you for your post and you know what you are talking about. Yesterday after what I considered a really good day. She told our counselor that she no longer wants a divorce and that she wants to work towards reconciliation and forgiveness. Fast forward to today. She texted me a couple times saying she isn't sure she can do this. She says she doesn't want a divorce but doesn't want to be married either. That if in the end we do divorce will I still help her with things. UGH. Hard to remain positive and strong but I did. Im learning to just let her say what she is feeling at the time and not react or let it make me feel like I just fell off a cliff. I just tell her I understand why she is filling this way and encourage her. Tell her one day at a time.

[BTDT2012]

Regretful one, thank you for your posts also. Reading your thoughts helps me with believing my WH really is sincere.

[Regretful one]

If you do it EMS please let me know how it is ! We want to do it too but it's just not in our price range at all... I'm out of work right now too.

 

FYI after looking into it and talking to one of the EMS counselors I decided to sign up. My wife said she was willing to go. I promised myself Id do anything I could and so if I truly believe that I figured I needed to take this step. We are signed up for Dec. 9 weekend but hopeful a cancellation happens so we can go to the Nov. 11 weekend. Ill let you know how it goes.

 

My wife is having an especially bad day. Unfortunately because of work she had to talk on the phone to one of the two women I had a physical affair with. She just told me that. That AP doesn't know I confessed and my wife didn't confront the issue with her even though she said she wanted to. I wasn't sure how to respond other than to apologize she had to go through that because of what I had done.

[aileD]

FYI after looking into it and talking to one of the EMS counselors I decided to sign up. My wife said she was willing to go. I promised myself Id do anything I could and so if I truly believe that I figured I needed to take this step. We are signed up for Dec. 9 weekend but hopeful a cancellation happens so we can go to the Nov. 11 weekend. Ill let you know how it goes.

 

My wife is having an especially bad day. Unfortunately because of work she had to talk on the phone to one of the two women I had a physical affair with. She just told me that. That AP doesn't know I confessed and my wife didn't confront the issue with her even though she said she wanted to. I wasn't sure how to respond other than to apologize she had to go through that because of what I had done.

 

Oh no. That's a big deal. I know how she feels. A few weeks our R, I callled to dispute a medical bill and even though I knew OWs mom worked st the hospital, I didn't know she was in charge of reviewing those types of cases. I didn't talk to her, I just said forget it and paid the bill. So that was awful for me and it was just her mom so I can only imagine how your wife feels.

 

Side note, the bill I was disputing was due to an injury I got walking home in anger from confronting her and H at her apartment ....irony.

 

How can this be prevented in the future? She shouldn't have to have these triggers all the time if it's a work thing.

 

I'm glad you got into the EMS. I'll be praying there's an opening in Nov for you two. .

[mikeylo]

Think this over : she loved you at your worst.

 

Triggers : 2 steps forward, 20 steps backwards.

 

After the initial honeymoon phase, do you think you will be satisfied with one woman's ( your wife) love, appreciation for the rest of your life?

 

She will be very hesitant to voice her opinions to you. Till she does that , you aren't gaining much.

[Regretful one]

Think this over : she loved you at your worst.

Yes Im aware. In almost 22 years of marriage there have been many times when neither of us were all that "lovable". I understand that this raised the bar to new levels.

 

After the initial honeymoon phase, do you think you will be satisfied with one woman's ( your wife) love, appreciation for the rest of your life?

 

If I didn't I wouldn't be working so hard for reconciliation. But then doesn't everyone? Its not like on the day I got married I thought to myself Id commit adultery. I (and any WS) has to proceed in life with a lack of trust for themselves. They have to be vigilant in knowing that they had a problem and lack of self control. If I start to trust myself again and think "oh, I can handle a little bit of friendly talk with this woman" Or something else along those lines it is a slippery slope. So you ask if will I be satisfied with must my wife for the rest of my life - my answer is yes of course. BUT I am going to proceed in life as if I won't trust myself to simply think that. It didn't work the first time. I will protect my marriage (assuming I am able to keep it) by never trusting that I can take even the smallest step without it leading to this. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else but its my own resolution. I have to change fundamentally more than just telling myself I am satisfied and happy with only my wife.

 

She will be very hesitant to voice her opinions to you. Till she does that , you aren't gaining much.

 

Thank you for your words of encouragement. Oh she voices some opinions quite frequently and quite intensely. Opinions like Im not moving back in right now and not in the very near future. Opinions like I did the most selfish thing and she can't believe it. Opinions like she never wants to be married to the old me again...

Edited October 21, 2016 by Regretful one

[mikeylo]

Dude, if you are as sincere as you sound, then you are a lucky guy. Your wife payed a heavy cost but it's worth to you. She deserves to be cherished especially if she has been the reason for your change.

 

I've been married long. I'm in my 50s and I can bet my life on it , no other woman is worth a dime than one who is mine. Any woman who is willing to indulge a taken man is loose. That's how I have lived.

[Regretful one]

Dude, if you are as sincere as you sound, then you are a lucky guy. Your wife payed a heavy cost but it's worth to you. She deserves to be cherished especially if she has been the reason for your change.

 

I've been married long. I'm in my 50s and I can bet my life on it , no other woman is worth a dime than one who is mine. Any woman who is willing to indulge a taken man is loose. That's how I have lived.

 

Oh Im very sincere. I suppose only I (and God) know just how sincere I am. Im not sure that makes me lucky though. I just understand the quality of woman I am married to and that she is not replaceable. I also happen to be in love with her and my children. You are right she does deserve to be cherished and Im ashamed that I haven't treated her like that for most of our marriage. She isn't necessarily the reason for my change however. She is a motivating factor for sure but I am changing because I need to change for me.

 

I apologize if I missed it but tell me, why are you hear? I had assumed you were were a BS. You are married and obviously love your wife. Can you point me to your story so I have a better understanding of where you are coming from because frankly I have no idea. Thanks.

[mikeylo]

I roam LS ! I came on this part of forum after being directed by a thread that was posted elsewhere. Then I read a few other threads and started replying.

 

I have siblings. My brother is commitment phobe. One of my sister's husband cheated on her with his ' female friend'. He was not remorseful. She isn't the most forgiving person either. She left him. Now she is dating an honorable guy.

 

It's better you believe that your wife is not the reason for change. Otherwise, some people come in your life for a reason and then they are gone ! Lol !

[Lion Heart]

Yes Im aware. In almost 22 years of marriage there have been many times when neither of us were all that "lovable". I understand that this raised the bar to new levels.

 

If I didn't I wouldn't be working so hard for reconciliation. But then doesn't everyone? Its not like on the day I got married I thought to myself Id commit adultery. I (and any WS) has to proceed in life with a lack of trust for themselves. They have to be vigilant in knowing that they had a problem and lack of self control. If I start to trust myself again and think "oh, I can handle a little bit of friendly talk with this woman" Or something else along those lines it is a slippery slope. So you ask if will I be satisfied with must my wife for the rest of my life - my answer is yes of course. BUT I am going to proceed in life as if I won't trust myself to simply think that. It didn't work the first time. I will protect my marriage (assuming I am able to keep it) by never trusting that I can take even the smallest step without it leading to this. I don't know if that makes any sense to anyone else but its my own resolution. I have to change fundamentally more than just telling myself I am satisfied and happy with only my wife.

 

 

 

Thank you for your words of encouragement. Oh she voices some opinions quite frequently and quite intensely. Opinions like Im not moving back in right now and not in the very near future. Opinions like I did the most selfish thing and she can't believe it. Opinions like she never wants to be married to the old me again...

 

WOW RO that was a pretty insightful post.

 

May I? Indeed I shall!

 

Challenge you on your point for proceedings as though you don't trust yourself???

 

RO!!!!!

 

I was doing housework and reflecting upon THE MOST AWESOME bfs I had.

The ones who were OMG DROP DEAD GORGEOUS and literally had women dripping off them (lol) in my company.

 

The "awesomeness" was that they were COMPLETELY FAITHFUL. I have witnessed this both first hand and from afar in their following Ms.

 

I'm not saying they were PERFECT but I'm talking BASE LEVEL STUFF here FIDELITY.

 

THE GREATEST ONLY gift in a relationship IS fidelity IMHO.

THIS is borne from RESPECT and COMMITMENT plus other dare I say contributing VALUES a person can only GIVE IF they have it inside TO give.

 

RO begin to RESPECT and commit to yourself with FULL TRUST that you can handle ANY situation.

 

Oh there's so much in my head I want to transpose to yours so you SEE the strength in my perspective here.

 

It's VITALLY IMPORTANT that you DO trust yourself.

A billion percent! Lol. (Sorry that overblown percentage thing is an IN joke with my mathematical genius bf. He's very likely to read all my posts. Hi baby!)

 

Sooooo RO! ugh....

 

WHEN a man approaches me with ANY kind of "look in his eye" (vomit) and or ANY kind of pick me up line or practically even if he wants to help me change my tyre lol...I ALWAYS say "I'm married".

 

I don't care HOW INAPPROPRIATE that sounds to any OM in any context. I'm STATING a fact! And any further coercion is met with FIERCE STEELY COMMENTS. Basically a "F*** RIGHT OFF" and indeed has ended some tangly web bs attempted to be thrown over me.

 

I can TUTOR you. Lol.

 

As I watched my bfs and H do THIS VERY THING so many times the ADMIRATION from me just grew and grew.

You have NO IDEA the actions of women in front of me.

 

Understanding what YOUR deficit (sorry!) NEED is for you to REQUIRE external validation that I just don't need at all.

Nor these awesome men I've been talking about.

 

FILL IT within yourself.

 

KNOW just how GREAT you are!!!!

 

Flick any OW out of your mind or face or conversations more or less.

I relegate ALL OM into "alabaster" as though that's all they are. They may as well be lol.

 

Anyway I really AM just trying to help you. It is with great kindness and humanity (lol) that I write.

I believe you are sincere now you're fighting for your M.

KEEP THESE walls up and ALWAYS keep working on yourself.

 

Be STRONG because ofcourse you ARE. Already.

 

:-))

Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

RO begin to RESPECT and commit to yourself with FULL TRUST that you can handle ANY situation.

 

Oh there's so much in my head I want to transpose to yours so you SEE the strength in my perspective here.

 

It's VITALLY IMPORTANT that you DO trust yourself.

A billion percent! Lol. (Sorry that overblown percentage thing is an IN joke with my mathematical genius bf. He's very likely to read all my posts. Hi baby!)

 

 

LH I do respect myself. I still hate my past choices but feel on the inside as good as Ive felt in a long long time. I do respect myself - I started respecting myself when I decided to confess. I believe I do have trust in myself as you are describing it. My point is that I don't want to put myself in a situation that might allow me to take a small step in the wrong direction. Its a slow process. If the first step is never taken even if completely innocent and platonic as it was in my case then there won't be a relapse. This concept comes from not only the youtube counseling Ive been adhering to but also the Celebrate Recovery mens group I am in. The first step of denial. I have to admit that I am powerless over my problems otherwise I will be in denial. I am not God and unable to control my tendency to do the wrong thing. I know it goes against what some think - perhaps you as well. The mens group is a 12 step (albeit a biblical one) program. Some guys are alcoholics, some battle drug addictions, anger etc. and a few have issues with Porn. There is one other guy like me who had an addiction to connections if you want to call it that. He also had affairs. He was able to remain married - this happened 17 years ago and he continues to go to these sort of mens groups. He described how he just avoids situations where he would be tempted. Not that he thinks that he can't handle it but because thats how he chooses to live his life. He looks away from the tv when a half dressed woman comes on. He avoids being alone with a female that isn't his wife or close relative. Its not because it will lead to an affair but he prefers to never allow certain thoughts to enter in.

 

 

WHEN a man approaches me with ANY kind of "look in his eye" (vomit) and or ANY kind of pick me up line or practically even if he wants to help me change my tyre lol...I ALWAYS say "I'm married".

 

I don't care HOW INAPPROPRIATE that sounds to any OM in any context. I'm STATING a fact! And any further coercion is met with FIERCE STEELY COMMENTS. Basically a "F*** RIGHT OFF" and indeed has ended some tangly web bs attempted to be thrown over me.

 

I can TUTOR you. Lol.

 

I think it a good way to set a tone for sure. Saying you are married lets other know you have no intentions of doing anything that would jeopardize being married.

 

As I watched my bfs and H do THIS VERY THING so many times the ADMIRATION from me just grew and grew.

You have NO IDEA the actions of women in front of me.

 

Oh I understand what those actions probably were... You have NO IDEA what the actions were of the woman that ended up being the big first terrible choice after I had to many to drink. (Just to be clear, there were two physical affairs in total. A drunk one night stand affair and then 4 years later a 7 week affair). The things she said and did with others around still shock me. Even though, Saying "Im married" in a tone which meant back off would have probably been enough and needs to be the first things out of my mouth if something like that ever occurs again.

 

Understanding what YOUR deficit (sorry!) NEED is for you to REQUIRE external validation that I just don't need at all.

Nor these awesome men I've been talking about.

 

FILL IT within yourself.

 

KNOW just how GREAT you are!!!!

 

Well things have greatly changed in the past 4 months. Im not that same person that had that need. My individual counseling and getting everything out in the open has made a world of difference with that.

 

Flick any OW out of your mind or face or conversations more or less.

I relegate ALL OM into "alabaster" as though that's all they are. They may as well be lol.

 

Anyway I really AM just trying to help you. It is with great kindness and humanity (lol) that I write.

I believe you are sincere now you're fighting for your M.

KEEP THESE walls up and ALWAYS keep working on yourself.

 

Be STRONG because ofcourse you ARE. Already.

 

:-))

Lion Heart

 

My wife is and will continue to be the only woman who consumes my thoughts. I appreciate your thoughts. Thank you.

 

 

A few thoughts of encouragement that spoke to me that I came across this morning.

 

 

*A person of integrity faces the music even when they don't like the tune... Face the music today. Own your mess.

 

*We are the directors of our own mindset.

 

*"There are far, far better things ahead than any we leave behind."

 

*The best way out is always through.

 

*To go fast, go alone. To go far, go together.

 

*Fear is faith in the enemy.

 

*Hope is the power of being cheerful in circumstances that we know to be desperate.

 

*Its easier to move from failure to success than from excuses to success.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Regretful one

[Lion Heart]

RO your post was very informative for me to see your journey and the battle you (have?) Struggle(d) with.

 

I knew as you began to write at 1 point that a 12 Step Program was afoot.

 

I also attended 12 Step Programs in my early 20s. And did so for maybe 10y? Unsure. That was 30y ago now. I will extrapolate if you ask.

 

I understand you better now.

 

I seriously NEVER understood a person's "addiction" to IDK affairs? Or is there a better phrase to coin it for you?

 

I understand the PULL relating to my own past struggles.

 

"KNOW THYSELF" huh? Lol.

 

My mother (being the Missionary she was!) ALWAYS counselled me as a young girl moving into my teens, "never put yourself in 'compromising' positions with boys". Tbh my gfs were sexually active from young ages - most of them.

 

I couldn't be with anybody else but my bf. But I digress lol.

 

Never allow those situations to arise is GOOD COUNSEL for anybody in committed monogamous relationships.

It just leaves way too much open for misinterpretation by OP ESPECIALLY of the opposite sex (being heterosexual).

 

As my D said about 5y ago "Mum all you have to do is SMILE to some men and they get an erection!" Yup. It was ONLY THEN that she understood my mode of operating around men other than my H. She was talking about HER recent learning. But understood me better.

She and even my current bf thought it was silly of me to introduce myself as "Lion Heart...wife of THAT man over there".

 

It sets the SCENE BUT DOES NOTHING to deter some crazed morons lol. Sorry had to say it. If I have to have more than 5 curt and deflective responses to a man after that, I pretty much get the sh**s real bad.

 

Women can be sexual predators too RO. Maybe similar percentages to other fields 5% women to 95% men. IDK.

 

But basically I choose NOT to go out. I only went to get gas with my 3 children in the car and copped a set of pick up lines from a man filling his car up at the next bowser.

Now I've learnt to NOT say my bf lives in America atm. That apparently opens the field.

I wear a Wedding Ring (my Grandmother's actually) then simply point to it and say "I'm taken". No "thankyou" nothing. In fact walk.away and pretend I'm deaf now.

They waste my time because they have boring lives lol.

 

I can't imagine how bad it is for women in some countries. It's sick enough here.

 

Those quotes are great RO. Do you put them all over your home?

 

My favourite anytime is "Be still and know that I am God".

It brings peace to a troubled mind.

Calm in times of war (lol relating directly to my situation atm).

Love in cruelty.

 

I restrain myself from putting any quotes I love anywhere here now. ExWH just rips them down & bins them.

I might just put my favourite up "I thought I married my knight in shining armour lol....idiot in tin foil".

 

Last week I found out about a support group for men here. Re: domestic violence perps. The only men who finish the course are those who have been made to attend by Court order. They usually reoffend anyway. Men who decide to go themselves (possibly under pressure from their wives) don't complete it. As a rule. There are always exceptions to data like this after XXXXXXX period of time.

 

BECAUSE of your OWN TRUTH SEEKING and facing the music, owning your own actions, perseverance for renewal, well you may be fruitful for your endeavours.

 

It's so true to go through something.

Cowards avoid.

Brave people face it all.

 

You'll be so glad you went through this painful learning.

It's wonderful you're accessing support.

 

Please keep us posted on your progress. Especially with your BW.

 

:-)

Lion Heart

Edited October 24, 2016 by Lion Heart

[Regretful one]

LH,

Yes I know in the long run I will look back on this time and find positives if I continue to do what I need to do. Right now the thing Im focused a lot on is overcoming self pity. Im learning that my shame (even reduced as it is) and self pity is still being self-centered. My focus (besides self improvement and God) needs to be on my wife's pain. My focus is on praying for her and doing whatever I can to help her work through this. She is having great difficulty dealing with her emotions (and sometimes the lack of them as well).

 

Things are going ok right now. It does sometimes seem like the peaks and valleys reach new levels though. It actually feels like my wife is two completely different people. There are times she is so loving, wanting me to hold her, wanting me to be with her etc.. and other times she is so mean and ambivalent about working on or saving our marriage. Two days ago she told me it might be time to give up. Yet yesterday we spent half the day talking and holding each other. I spent the night at home with her.

 

One interesting thing that happened. After our couples therapy session where she was basically having trouble having any emotion at all we sat in her car and talked for a couple hours in the parking lot. She told me she needed to tell me something. She confessed that two nights ago she got on Craigslist and emailed a guy. She then texted this guy for 45 minutes and had a sexual conversation that resulted in him sending her a photo of himself which she says grossed her out and she stopped and deleted everything. I questioned her for about 30 minuets and she seemed to be very honest in what she did with her answers. She however was not remorseful and admitted that it was part for fun part to see what I had been doing and part to hurt me back. She says she has never had a physical affair and doesn't want to and only confessed to me because she doesn't want to feel tempted and wants to keep no secretes. It does however go against the "rules of separation" as outlined by our counselor. I did get a taste (albeit a tiny one) of what she has had to deal with. Before anyone bashes me, I fully understand that there is a big difference between a 45 minute sexting/conversation that she had and the things (plural) that I did. But it still hit me. In the past this would have sent me into a place where I would have gotten quite upset. Fortunately I was able to focus and let that go in my own mind. I worked past it and even though she wasn't asking me to forgive her I did so. We renewed our promise to not talk to, flirt or do anything with the opposite sex. After that we worked on us.

 

Right now she is having trouble getting her emotions out. She has in the past but our therapist says she needs to do some serous crying... letting it out. She couldn't even cry at all last night although she says she wants to. Lately when she is having a good day she wants me around but when she is having a bad day she wants space. I think the separation is staring to do more harm than good by preventing us from being together when she finds herself facing the emotions of what I've done. Ive told her this and she agrees but instead of saying I need to move back in to the house I just said lets take some time and think about it. She texted me back today and wants me to spend the night again. Its just a complicated mess of emotions that Ive caused. Im just very thankful that my wife is trying and is wanting to work though this. So thankful.

 

An answered prayer... I signed up for EMS (couples weekend retreat specifically for infidelity) through affairrecovery.com They were sold out for the November 11-13 dates so we were stuck waiting till december. They called me this morning and had a cancellation. I think this will be so good for my wife (and me) as we will be able to be with actual professionals who have gone through this and are trained to deal with infidelity. It will also be helpful to be around other couples dealing with this same thing.

 

Additional update. A past person I emailed for a couple years sent me an email. I immediately told my wife. She told me to respond and copy her which I did. I hated telling her as I know it will upset her but she was glad I did.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Regretful one

[waterwoman]

Regretful one, you are a breath of fresh air and I wish you and your wife the very best! No minimising, no blame-shifting, no back-sliding. I wish all WS were like you.

[merrmeade]

My point is that I don't want to put myself in a situation that might allow me to take a small step in the wrong direction. Its a slow process. If the first step is never taken even if completely innocent and platonic as it was in my case then there won't be a relapse. ...

There is one other guy like me who had an addiction to connections if you want to call it that. He also had affairs. He was able to remain married - this happened 17 years ago and he continues to go to these sort of mens groups. He described how he just avoids situations where he would be tempted. Not that he thinks that he can't handle it but because thats how he chooses to live his life. He looks away from the tv when a half dressed woman comes on. He avoids being alone with a female that isn't his wife or close relative. Its not because it will lead to an affair but he prefers to never allow certain thoughts to enter in.

 

I think it a good way to set a tone for sure. Saying you are married lets other know you have no intentions of doing anything that would jeopardize being married.

... the big first terrible choice after I had to many to drink.

... Even though, Saying "Im married" in a tone which meant back off would have probably been enough and needs to be the first things out of my mouth if something like that ever occurs again.

RO, I want to acknowledge that the last part of your post that I cut was very inspiring, but I wanted to address these ^^^ isolated segments. I wanted to stress/point out that you're clearly struggling with and looking for help to learn the behavior AND thoughts of a man who can recognize and turn away from potentially seductive situations before they become relationships. It's very insightful of you and a sign of how hard you've been working on yourself. Keep thinking about this, listening well, as you have been, and talking about this. You're in IC? Can't remember but hope so. All this input with the different venues for discussion will bring up other important questions to build on.

 

On this line, have you read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? I think you'd get a LOT out of it and it will fit right in, just in time with the direction your search is taking.

 

And one last thing: I don't know you, but I'm proud of you as if I did. You're my ideal WS and I'm glad to know you exist. You're the perfect "prodigal" spouse, and I hope your wife can forgive you. But EITHER WAY, you must realize that you are a better man for all this work you've done to define Integrity for yourself and earn it. You must realize that your life will be better because you are so much better - regardless of what happens. And you must know that this work never ends. Christians like you who are also spiritual seekers are important in this world (the two aren't always together in the same person).

Edited October 25, 2016 by merrmeade

[Lion Heart]

Hi RO,

 

Sorry for responding to your post this way. I'm typing from my phone (long story lol exWH up to his own version of circus tricks the clown). It's the only way I can see your comments easily.

 

This post brought back painful, complicated and confusing memories for me. Infused with my friend Js experiences as a serial cheating WH and thinking of all of you and the situation here.

 

Ofcourse everyone's an individual. There are some text book occurrences during the process of infidelity in M and each person's reaction to D Day. IMO it's pretty obvious that spouses who make deliberate efforts to betray their spouse have unresolved FOO issues. Most people do but so many choose to remain faithful.

 

Then there's the reactions of betrayed spouses. Few laugh and say p*** off. That'll be what I advise anyone to do. But the betrayal in families ie M couple with children runs deeper imo.

 

Anyway you'll see my thoughts on your situation following.

 

LH,

Yes I know in the long run I will look back on this time and find positives if I continue to do what I need to do.

 

***the foundation thing is to KNOW you chose to live in the TRUTH. Finally. Lol exWH here used to say "better late than never" to me ALL the time. I was discussing this very thing with my bf today. Well better late than never is simply ridiculous. It's a lazy person's perspective. ExWH was referring to finally learning to take the trash out after we separated.

 

Sometimes too late is just too late. You may never redeem yourself in BWs eyes but as much as this IS about you healing her - as far as she'll allow now obviously. You are responsible for waking completely up to yourself. This should lead into the self pity response.****

 

Right now the thing Im focused a lot on is overcoming self pity. Im learning that my shame (even reduced as it is) and self pity is still being self-centered.

 

****indeed I do find a WSs self pity VERY hard to grasp..

Didn't you know you were risking your position in your family?

That you would lose them in an instant?

Face the horror in your wife immediately?

Face your children's (possible) wrath when they find out?

You lose all respect from your children as they grow older. Your "advice" will probably be met with deaf ears, except for when they want something out of you.

 

Arrogance is what may have brought any other slant you took. I'm sure you weren't ignorant of the repercussions of one A let alone 7w of that affair plus other extramarital sex and online emotional affairs.

 

You knew.

You risked it.

You thought SOMEWHERE in your mind that you didn't love your wife. You certainly didn't VALUE your wife.

No one needs a wife. You disrespected yours completely.

I guess I'm trying to say it's all on you buddy.****

 

My focus (besides self improvement and God) needs to be on my wife's pain. My focus is on praying for her and doing whatever I can to help her work through this. She is having great difficulty dealing with her emotions (and sometimes the lack of them as well).

 

****RO until you become a "deeper" person, you cannot focus on your wife's pain to heal her and your M.

I think you're doing well.

Coming clean was the best decision of yours after years of sh***y ones.

 

You've gotten to the bottom of your barrel about what you're WILLING to GIVE.

I can tell by your frustrations that you want to move back into the house asap.

You're incorrect by thinking you'd be doing your BW any good by forcing this.

You'll be causing further harm IMHO.

DO NOT BUG your BW about moving back in. She already feels so much PRESSURE in dealing with this.

Then to deal with you in her face too? No.

My suggestion is to write a pretty short heartfelt letter to her. Saying you promise to allow her as much time as she needs. You'll not bring it up again except in IC if required.

But for her to know how earnestly you'll work to prove yourself to her etc.

Then when she questions your sincerity, she can read it.

J moved out immediately. Allowed his BW time. She took 5y in fact. She has a bf now. J is shattered. They're finally divorcing. Their M was different. Just sayin'. ****

 

Things are going ok right now. It does sometimes seem like the peaks and valleys reach new levels though. It actually feels like my wife is two completely different people. There are times she is so loving, wanting me to hold her, wanting me to be with her etc.. and other times she is so mean and ambivalent about working on or saving our marriage. Two days ago she told me it might be time to give up. Yet yesterday we spent half the day talking and holding each other. I spent the night at home with her.

 

**** this was me EXACTLY. Except the cycle could run 15x per day or lag out for a few days. There was a period of time after MC sacked us lol and veritable calm. It was me choosing to live in denial. Ofcourse I felt there was more and there was.

 

My CLARITY didn't fully BEGIN until 18 months post D Day. 2 months after I got VWH out. Permanently.

It's now near 2y and my mind is STILL bringing more AHA experiences to the forefront. More crazy than your R I hope. Certainly less willingness on both sides.****

 

One interesting thing that happened. After our couples therapy session where she was basically having trouble having any emotion at all we sat in her car and talked for a couple hours in the parking lot. She told me she needed to tell me something. She confessed that two nights ago she got on Craigslist and emailed a guy. She then texted this guy for 45 minutes and had a sexual conversation that resulted in him sending her a photo of himself which she says grossed her out and she stopped and deleted everything. I questioned her for about 30 minuets and she seemed to be very honest in what she did with her answers. She however was not remorseful and admitted that it was part for fun part to see what I had been doing and part to hurt me back. She says she has never had a physical affair and doesn't want to and only confessed to me because she doesn't want to feel tempted and wants to keep no secretes. It does however go against the "rules of separation" as outlined by our counselor. I did get a taste (albeit a tiny one) of what she has had to deal with. Before anyone bashes me, I fully understand that there is a big difference between a 45 minute sexting/conversation that she had and the things (plural) that I did. But it still hit me. In the past this would have sent me into a place where I would have gotten quite upset. Fortunately I was able to focus and let that go in my own mind. I worked past it and even though she wasn't asking me to forgive her I did so. We renewed our promise to not talk to, flirt or do anything with the opposite sex. After that we worked on us.

 

****THIS is revenge in action. Albeit nothing like you did at all. You're separated after all.

I guess it's also curiosity as she was honest to reveal to you.

But the fact that she liked it is gonna send red flags up.

I don't blame her at all.

The "rules" made me laugh actually.

What rules?

Now?

AFTER the horse bolted years ago?

Wow.

Audacity imo.

 

I see the sincerity in the ICs attempts to get some stability in your R.

I think the "rules" were more intended for you RO. But the tables slightly turned.

You NOTED your BWs apparent lack of emotions lately.

 

THIS is why it took me so long to reply after reading your post.

WHEN was I FEELING the same ways as your BW?

It was when I HAD TO SHUT down my connection to VWH.

I had FAR too much going on in my head about all this new (but old) information about the *** I married.

 

I was directed TO sleep with OM by VWH. He's sick remember lol. And more. I couldn't and no way even wanted to myself. If I could have hurt him by doing it, I may have.

But very quickly I decided to respect myself. Loveless sex just isn't my thing. I only sleep with the man I love. I was losing any love I had left for VWH by this time. Very quickly.

 

I saw VARIOUS creatures inhabiting VWH. The sweet & gentle man seldomly. The full of self pitying man attempting to elicit sympathy CONSTANTLY (bad habits die hard!) And the OGRE that could've done this to me after everything I'd done selflessly for him.

 

The ogre won. You should see his photos on FB lol...gosh he loves pity. It gets him the CONNECTIONS he SO desires. Makes women feel safe, he elicits sex this way.

 

Be on guard regarding the text book style most cheaters do.

Lament (usually about their spouse lol).

Receive pity.

Get sex.

Bingo.****

 

Right now she is having trouble getting her emotions out. She has in the past but our therapist says she needs to do some serous crying... letting it out. She couldn't even cry at all last night although she says she wants to. Lately when she is having a good day she wants me around but when she is having a bad day she wants space. I think the separation is staring to do more harm than good by preventing us from being together when she finds herself facing the emotions of what I've done. Ive told her this and she agrees but instead of saying I need to move back in to the house I just said lets take some time and think about it. She texted me back today and wants me to spend the night again. Its just a complicated mess of emotions that Ive caused. Im just very thankful that my wife is trying and is wanting to work though this. So thankful.

 

****living ALWAYS from a perspective of gratitude is everything; healing, humbling, joyful.****

 

An answered prayer... I signed up for EMS (couples weekend retreat specifically for infidelity) through affairrecovery.com They were sold out for the November 11-13 dates so we were stuck waiting till december. They called me this morning and had a cancellation. I think this will be so good for my wife (and me) as we will be able to be with actual professionals who have gone through this and are trained to deal with infidelity. It will also be helpful to be around other couples dealing with this same thing.

 

**** excellent! Hope it all goes brilliantly :-))****

 

Additional update. A past person I emailed for a couple years sent me an email. I immediately told my wife. She told me to respond and copy her which I did. I hated telling her as I know it will upset her but she was glad I did.

 

Living in the truth. If that's all you get from this, you'll be blessed indeed. The work you're doing on yourself may gather some lost respect. No matter. It's so much more about acknowledging the hurt and confusion you've caused your BW. She may be able to move past this and renew her vows to you. Time will tell.

 

Keep up the GREAT work!

:-) LH

[gettingstronger]

Be careful with the self-loathing thing-my husband went through intense periods of self-loathing and at times it was just too much for me- there are times when its really hard to soothe someone that brought it on themselves-not that I don't care, I do-but wallowing in self-pity can be draining for the spouse-

 

 

On the CL thing-my best guess is she was curious about the rush you felt-I know for me, that is something that really stuck in my mind-what is that rush all about and can a marriage really compete with that- I looked on CL a few times, but could never bring myself to contact anyone- doesn't mean I am better than anyone else, just means I can not-

[Regretful one]

Regretful one, you are a breath of fresh air and I wish you and your wife the very best! No minimising, no blame-shifting, no back-sliding. I wish all WS were like you.

 

I really appreciate the kind words. Thank you for that! Helps me know Im doing some things right! I know I have spent countless hours on youtube, on affair recovery websites, here, in counseling etc.. etc.. to learn all I could about myself, my family origin issues, infidelity, the pain from infidelity etc.. etc.. The knowledge I gained was so helpful and I believe it helped me turn the corner so much quicker than if I had simply avoided it all and hid like I have for so many years.

 

I am humbled that you wish other WS were like me but I really wish I wasn't a WS at all. I have deep sorrow that Ive put my family through this. Having said that I believe more than ever with God's help good can come out of this awful thing. I will be a WS for the rest of my life much in the same way an alcoholic is always an alcoholic I suppose. I can never take back what I did and be able to say I kept my vows to my wife which were believe it or not something I really did take seriously. I don't hate myself for my decisions any more though. I know I am a good person and can love my wife like she has never known before. She sure as hell deserves it.

[Regretful one]

RO, I want to acknowledge that the last part of your post that I cut was very inspiring, but I wanted to address these ^^^ isolated segments. I wanted to stress/point out that you're clearly struggling with and looking for help to learn the behavior AND thoughts of a man who can recognize and turn away from potentially seductive situations before they become relationships. It's very insightful of you and a sign of how hard you've been working on yourself. Keep thinking about this, listening well, as you have been, and talking about this. You're in IC? Can't remember but hope so. All this input with the different venues for discussion will bring up other important questions to build on.

 

On this line, have you read Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass? I think you'd get a LOT out of it and it will fit right in, just in time with the direction your search is taking.

 

And one last thing: I don't know you, but I'm proud of you as if I did. You're my ideal WS and I'm glad to know you exist. You're the perfect "prodigal" spouse, and I hope your wife can forgive you. But EITHER WAY, you must realize that you are a better man for all this work you've done to define Integrity for yourself and earn it. You must realize that your life will be better because you are so much better - regardless of what happens. And you must know that this work never ends. Christians like you who are also spiritual seekers are important in this world (the two aren't always together in the same person).

 

Thank you for your post!

 

Im not sure I'm struggling but it is true I am interested in and wanting to seek out methods and ways to prevent any relapse. NOT because I think there will be one at all but because I aim to do everything in my ability to prevent anything close to this from ever happening again. I plan on leaving no stone unturned. I touched on this subject with my wife but part of me was/is concerned that if I tell her I worry about relapse she takes that to mean that Im struggling and could at any moment "take that first drink"... In reality I have no temptations to do so at the moment at all. The fact I am not wearing my wedding ring right now (our MC suggested I take it off a month ago and give to my wife until she wants to be married again) annoys me. I want the world to know Im in a committed relationship and that I have no desire for anyone other than my wife. This is not to say that women are hitting on me but I just want that persona. Most of my counseling right now is couples therapy. In some ways it feels like my own personal IC has been put on hold while we deal with this infidelity. I continue to do self IC with reading. The weekend class we are going to in November has an entire section dedicated to avoiding relapse and Im looking forward to that part. Likewise the 12 step celebrate recovery mens group also has a lot to do with never becoming that person that made those bad decisions again.

 

No, I have not read "Not Just friends" but I have seen that authors name mentioned in many places and quotes from her book(s) in books Ive read. I will order it from Amazon if you feel its a must read. I need a new book to start anyway. Im starting to feel like in the future Im going to know so much more about relationships and infidelity from going through this. Other than topics related to my profession I don't think Ive ever read so much about a subject. No wonder why so many therapists who specialize in infidelity did themselves go through it in one way or the other. Learning from someone who has first hand knowledge is SOOO helpful. One reason I think our weekend EMS retreat will be so helpful and why I sometimes think our MC will be limited in helping us specifically with the infidelity.

 

As mentioned before I am humbled and also appreciative of your comments here. I want to know I am doing what I should be doing and that I AM helping my wife. Reading comments from BS really just helps me fully grasp the bomb of terrible crap I threw in my wife's lap 2+ months ago when I confessed. It really helps me "get it". As you point out regardless of how my marriage heals from this (or not) I am so much better off from what I've been doing. I am a man of integrity again. I feel so good about that fact. And Amen to the fact that my work will never end and can't if I am to be who I want to be.

 

Interesting comment about "Christians like me"... Christians can be full of themselves and self centered without even realizing it sometimes. I know I was both of those things. I believe to be a Christian in the way that He wants is to be humble in all things. Much easier said than done but this experience has truly humbled me only gotten me closer to my God. I know many will (and do) look at me as a hypocrite because of what I've done. I can't change that or their minds - but opinions of others doesn't control me like it once did. A saying Im fond of that I came across through this is "Sometimes we do not get to the point of Jesus is all we need until we understand that He is all we have." I know that many or even most on this forum are not believers and I respect that but for me its a personal thing and plays the biggest role in my life. Its also why I chose not to drive my car as fast as I could into a tree about two months ago.

[Regretful one]

Hi RO,

 

Sorry for responding to your post this way. I'm typing from my phone (long story lol exWH up to his own version of circus tricks the clown). It's the only way I can see your comments easily.

 

No need to be sorry.. Thank you for posting when its got to be a real PTA on your phone. We might break a record here on length of a post.

 

This post brought back painful, complicated and confusing memories for me. Infused with my friend Js experiences as a serial cheating WH and thinking of all of you and the situation here.

 

Sorry it stirs up pain but Im a firm believer now that working through the pain is so much better than suppressing as it will still be there right?

 

Ofcourse everyone's an individual. There are some text book occurrences during the process of infidelity in M and each person's reaction to D Day. IMO it's pretty obvious that spouses who make deliberate efforts to betray their spouse have unresolved FOO issues. Most people do but so many choose to remain faithful.

 

No doubt... Ive seen some wide ranging reactions to D Day. And you are so right that everyone is an individual. We (and by we I mean me first and foremost) can't judge what others do and decide especially BS as it relates to their choice to stay, go and/or try. Just yesterday my wife and I are working on some initial healing things through the foundation that puts on the weekend infidelity retreat we are going to. We had to watch a video where a couple that had reconciled was giving their story. It was a long story. It was a lot of stuff.. This guy had years and years of affairs. Several relapses during and after therapy. He got his AP pregnant while his wife was also pregnant. There were prostitutes and porn additions etc.. etc.. Anyway, my wife said something to the affect that he was the worst and she could never stay with him and that the woman was a fool even though they seem very happy now. I found this interesting as I know my (our) story would create the same thoughts in others probably including you. I let my wife speak her mind and didn't say much other than its important not to judge others. I think all infidelity (at least on some level) is a deliberate effort. Its a choice after all. As far as FOO issues I would think that everyone has some (I know I had/have many many many). And you are right not all act out in the way I did because of them.

 

Then there's the reactions of betrayed spouses. Few laugh and say p*** off. That'll be what I advise anyone to do. But the betrayal in families ie M couple with children runs deeper imo.

 

Yes Ive seen your advice. Guess Im glad my wife didn't seek your counsel lol. I say that only half jokingly as I know your heart is in your thoughts on this forum. And honey (speaking to my wife here) if you are reading this I love you. I do think M with children does complicate things for sure. Unfortunately however the children didn't stop me or other WS from cheating why should it stop a BS from leaving the marriage? Its another example of just how selfish of a thing infidelity is.. its left up to the BS to decide if they can justify staying in the marriage with the added pressure of children.

 

 

LH,

Yes I know in the long run I will look back on this time and find positives if I continue to do what I need to do.

 

 

***the foundation thing is to KNOW you chose to live in the TRUTH. Finally. Lol exWH here used to say "better late than never" to me ALL the time. I was discussing this very thing with my bf today. Well better late than never is simply ridiculous. It's a lazy person's perspective. ExWH was referring to finally learning to take the trash out after we separated.

 

Oh yes... I can't begin to tell you or my wife just how much it means and how freeing it is to live in the truth. If you have always lived your life that way - my wife is a prime example of this its difficult to understand what living a life of lies feels like. Not looking for pity here at all.. Just pointing out that living in the truth is such an amazing thing and why I never regret confessing to my wife. The truth truly does set one free. It could have meant the end of my marriage but had to be done. Had I only confessed earlier and not had continued my string of bad choices the hurt I caused would have been lessened for everyone. To any WS reading this that has not done so or is holding on to more lies/secrets, they only serve to trap you.

 

Sometimes too late is just too late. You may never redeem yourself in BWs eyes but as much as this IS about you healing her - as far as she'll allow now obviously. You are responsible for waking completely up to yourself. This should lead into the self pity response.****

 

I think self pity is something I will continue to work on and will on occasion shock myself by exhibiting it. I think recognizing it for what it is will be the key. Waking up completely in myself as you put it is my continued goal. An example of my self pity and an example of my wife healing and getting her voice back FINALLY happened today. I was home this morning with her (spent the last two nights with her actually - I say this with a huge smile on my face) and it was time for me to go. I commented something about how I wished I could just go back to work in my office at home like I have for the past couple years since we built our house. She saw it for what it was... I was feeling sorry for myself for having to go back to my apartment which I referred to as my jail cell. My wife told me to quit feeling sorry for myself and smiled at me. BAM! Woke me up. I was doing it! I had just made love to my wife. We were working on US and having amazing talks and here I was careless enough to feel sorry for myself having to leave and go to my apartment. Im so glad my wife pointed this out. I immediately apologized and kissed her goodbye. Im so glad she is stepping up like this now to call me on my crap though.

 

****indeed I do find a WSs self pity VERY hard to grasp..

Didn't you know you were risking your position in your family?

That you would lose them in an instant?

Face the horror in your wife immediately?

Face your children's (possible) wrath when they find out?

You lose all respect from your children as they grow older. Your "advice" will probably be met with deaf ears, except for when they want something out of you.

 

Well getting over our selfish behavior does't stop overnight even if someone is sincere which I believe I am.

 

YES I did know I was risking everything. I gotsta own that.

 

YEP, I face the horror in my wife. My older son's know exactly what I did because I confessed to them too. Im taking that on too and owning it. I see or hear the pain I've caused in my wife every day.

 

I disagree however with the comment about my children. I asked my son's to forgive me - not because I deserved it but because I was truly sorry and I apologized for being a bad father for doing this to their mother. They were both very gracious and forgave me. They told me they know what I did wasn't who I am (I love my boys). I think rather than lose respect for me they actually gained respect for me because I told them what I had done. They see what I am doing now. Instead of learning that people who make mistakes should run and hide they see that I am fighting. They see that I am paying a price (perhaps not the ultimate price of loosing my marriage but a price none the less). They respect me for admitting I made a terrible choice and own it. Ask my wife and she will tell you that I am an amazing father but I believe my boys will respect me more in the future because of this rather than less. You learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes (don't bash me for using the "mistake" word - I understand this is bigger than a simple mistake). I am humbled to see how my son's have supported both their mother and I though this. My daughter is younger and only knows that Mom and Dad are taking a time out. She sees us together and I interact with my daughter daily in some way. I took her on a date a few nights ago as well. In time as she gets older I will tell her about all of this and I will be sure to tell her that my actions were not of a man who loves his family as he should. I hope she will be as forgiving as her brothers were. My sons go to me almost daily via text. Sometimes looking for advice other times looking for affirmation in a round about way about who they are as men and other times just to BS. I am a lucky man.

 

I will say this however. My older son lives with his girlfriend. And what I have done does indeed cause me problems telling him (like I have in the past before all this came out) that living with his GF is a mistake and not something I feel is morally right. I will sound like a hypocrite by saying so. So I do have to limit my advice in that regard at least for a while. I do hate that I have lost that ground to stand on in the eyes of my sons. I can only move forward however.

 

Arrogance is what may have brought any other slant you took. I'm sure you weren't ignorant of the repercussions of one A let alone 7w of that affair plus other extramarital sex and online emotional affairs.

 

You knew.

You risked it.

You thought SOMEWHERE in your mind that you didn't love your wife. You certainly didn't VALUE your wife.

No one needs a wife. You disrespected yours completely.

I guess I'm trying to say it's all on you buddy.****

 

Yep.

 

****RO until you become a "deeper" person, you cannot focus on your wife's pain to heal her and your M.

I think you're doing well.

Coming clean was the best decision of yours after years of sh***y ones.

 

Well we will disagree here. I think putting more focus on my wife and her pain is in some ways what helps me become a deeper person. Along with the other things I mentioned that Im doing. And yes confessing was finally making a good decision as painful as it was for all involved.

 

You've gotten to the bottom of your barrel about what you're WILLING to GIVE.

I can tell by your frustrations that you want to move back into the house asap.

You're incorrect by thinking you'd be doing your BW any good by forcing this.

You'll be causing further harm IMHO.

DO NOT BUG your BW about moving back in. She already feels so much PRESSURE in dealing with this.

Then to deal with you in her face too? No.

My suggestion is to write a pretty short heartfelt letter to her. Saying you promise to allow her as much time as she needs. You'll not bring it up again except in IC if required.

But for her to know how earnestly you'll work to prove yourself to her etc.

Then when she questions your sincerity, she can read it.

J moved out immediately. Allowed his BW time. She took 5y in fact. She has a bf now. J is shattered. They're finally divorcing. Their M was different. Just sayin'. ****

 

You are spot on again LH. You see my frustrations for what they are. You are right and Im trying to justify my desire to move back home by saying it will be better for US. But as you point out I am wrong and I know this. I need to be reminded of this! Its that self pity part I was referring to earlier. Damn. Patience RO Patience! lol

 

I actually already told myself what you just wrote on my drive back to my apartment. I also made sure my wife knew I was happy and there for her when she needs. But thanks for the reminder as I might need a large metal object to the head occasionally. It seems to be one of my last struggles - leaving my home was one of the hardest things for me to do and I need to let moving back in happen in her time at her suggestion.

 

Things are going ok right now. It does sometimes seem like the peaks and valleys reach new levels though. It actually feels like my wife is two completely different people. There are times she is so loving, wanting me to hold her, wanting me to be with her etc.. and other times she is so mean and ambivalent about working on or saving our marriage. Two days ago she told me it might be time to give up. Yet yesterday we spent half the day talking and holding each other. I spent the night at home with her.

 

**** this was me EXACTLY. Except the cycle could run 15x per day or lag out for a few days. There was a period of time after MC sacked us lol and veritable calm. It was me choosing to live in denial. Ofcourse I felt there was more and there was.

 

My CLARITY didn't fully BEGIN until 18 months post D Day. 2 months after I got VWH out. Permanently.

It's now near 2y and my mind is STILL bringing more AHA experiences to the forefront. More crazy than your R I hope. Certainly less willingness on both sides.****

 

Yeah she is all over the map but Im learning to watch the horizon and not judge progress my moment by moment or day by day... Need to stand back and look month to month how things are going. When I do that I see great progress in myself and her/us. A lot of times when I post here Im either up or down based on how things are going with her. Its an up time at the moment. So I'm not going to get to up as I know there will be a swing the other direction soon. I have learned to not get so devastated by negative texts anymore though. Thankfully.

 

 

****THIS is revenge in action. Albeit nothing like you did at all. You're separated after all.

I guess it's also curiosity as she was honest to reveal to you.

But the fact that she liked it is gonna send red flags up.

I don't blame her at all.

The "rules" made me laugh actually.

What rules?

Now?

AFTER the horse bolted years ago?

Wow.

Audacity imo.

 

Ha.. the response I expected from you.

You are right - its not in the same ball park as what I did. I was just speaking my feelings when I posted about this. Im working on that too after all. Maybe I need to hold back from doing that incase my wife does indeed read all of this.

 

Red flags sure but she confessed it to me so I shouldn't worry about it. I think her saying she liked part of it was honest and part a little pain transmittance. My wife is sexual. She told me that she wants for us to have sexual texting later on at some point because she would like to do that with ME. Yes yes.. I understand the thinking of how could I be so Obtuse (can I use that word? Ive wanted to for so long and I think it works here). Why do rules apply now when I didn't adhere to my vows. I can't say much - you are right. The rules were put in place by our MC to be clear this was a separation where we were planning to reconcile. Dating, or doing anything with the opposite sex was forbidden especially because we will both be in a more vulnerable state is what the MC said. Ill stop there.

 

I see the sincerity in the ICs attempts to get some stability in your R.

I think the "rules" were more intended for you RO. But the tables slightly turned.

You NOTED your BWs apparent lack of emotions lately.

 

THIS is why it took me so long to reply after reading your post.

WHEN was I FEELING the same ways as your BW?

It was when I HAD TO SHUT down my connection to VWH.

I had FAR too much going on in my head about all this new (but old) information about the *** I married.

 

Well perhaps but the way the MC gave us the rules it was given to us each. And the MC made a point to look at my wife and tell her as well.

 

My wife has had trouble surprising emotions for years. According to our MC since before I was even in the picture. I believe that to be true. Its something my wife is working on now in IC - today actually. My wife has told me that she wants to go there.. wants to find her emotions and work on them. I don't get the sense that she is wanting to shut down anything albeit painful to get to that point.

 

I was directed TO sleep with OM by VWH. He's sick remember lol. And more. I couldn't and no way even wanted to myself. If I could have hurt him by doing it, I may have.

But very quickly I decided to respect myself. Loveless sex just isn't my thing. I only sleep with the man I love. I was losing any love I had left for VWH by this time. Very quickly.

 

I saw VARIOUS creatures inhabiting VWH. The sweet & gentle man seldomly. The full of self pitying man attempting to elicit sympathy CONSTANTLY (bad habits die hard!) And the OGRE that could've done this to me after everything I'd done selflessly for him.

 

Well sounds like you know for a fact you are better off without him. Kudos to you for respecting yourself like you did/do.

 

Living in the truth. If that's all you get from this, you'll be blessed indeed. The work you're doing on yourself may gather some lost respect. No matter. It's so much more about acknowledging the hurt and confusion you've caused your BW. She may be able to move past this and renew her vows to you. Time will tell.

 

Keep up the GREAT work!

:-) LH

 

Agreed thank you!

[Regretful one]

Be careful with the self-loathing thing-my husband went through intense periods of self-loathing and at times it was just too much for me- there are times when its really hard to soothe someone that brought it on themselves-not that I don't care, I do-but wallowing in self-pity can be draining for the spouse-

 

 

On the CL thing-my best guess is she was curious about the rush you felt-I know for me, that is something that really stuck in my mind-what is that rush all about and can a marriage really compete with that- I looked on CL a few times, but could never bring myself to contact anyone- doesn't mean I am better than anyone else, just means I can not-

 

Thanks for the comment.

Agreed. It seems to be my stumbling block at the moment. Not self loathing but self-pity.. Its not terrible or even bad. Im just trying be as critical of how I behave as I can be. And you are right.. Im thinking nothing is less attractive or desirable than a person who made terrible choices and then feels sorry for themselves for the consequences.

 

Yes I think a lot of it had to do with curiosity and wanting to understand what I did. The not knowing is difficult for her even though Ive answered every question she has and continue to do so. She told me today she regretted doing the CL thing and says its not who she is. I believe that to be true.