Praying for reconciliation

[aileD]

In wrote a whole thing and lost if.

 

Look up unveiled wife and husband revolution. Good daily prayer stuff.

[mikeylo]

My H's OW described him as "The most moral, loyal, principled man she had ever met in her life" on several occasions!!

 

You've got to laugh sometimes.

 

I understand. My ex Bil , after DDay said to my sister that she should actually meet his OW ( plural) as they are very nice people. He wanted her to make friends with them. Because once she got to know them, she will also like them. Really ?

 

Eta: it was in the same context I had put the question : who was doing those things for OP's wife ? Or because her childhood was better , it takes away her right to feel loved, wanted, appreciated, validated , made feel beautiful by him? How twisted is that ?

Edited November 4, 2016 by mikeylo

[dreamingoftigers]

My H's OW described him as "The most moral, loyal, principled man she had ever met in her life" on several occasions!!

 

You've got to laugh sometimes.

 

I really wonder how mental some of these people are....

[dreamingoftigers]

I understand. My ex Bil , after DDay said to my sister that she should actually meet his OW ( plural) as they are very nice people. He wanted her to make friends with them. Because once she got to know them, she will also like them. Really ?

 

Eta: it was in the same context I had put the question : who was doing those things for OP's wife ? Or because her childhood was better , it takes away her right to feel loved, wanted, appreciated, validated , made feel beautiful by him? How twisted is that ?

 

You would be surprised how common that is. Like the MM expects his wife to be some kind of "totally understanding and cool with it" extension of himself. I get the (ir)rationale, but it it does behoove me that MM do this. Quite simply, "No, I don't want to be her friend. I don't like women that help to destroy my life and family. Even if she says her " please and thank yous."" Duh.

[mikeylo]

You would be surprised how common that is. Like the MM expects his wife to be some kind of "totally understanding and cool with it" extension of himself. I get the (ir)rationale, but it it does behoove me that MM do this. Quite simply, "No, I don't want to be her friend. I don't like women that help to destroy my life and family. Even if she says her " please and thank yous."" Duh.

 

Its a cover to continue their rendezvous right under your nose. The ' if it was inappropriate , I wouldnt be doing abc in front of you ' line.

 

After DDay, its the BS who decides what is appropriate and not inappropriate. The WS loses that right. If they are that clueless , then they should either learn, ask their BS explicitly and adhere or split. Its not about power or doing a favor. Its how it should have been from get go.

[Lion Heart]

Dear Mr & Mrs RO, lol just in case!

As a precursor I wanted to say that I smile at your progress and this time I cried and triggered myself. My darling bf has had to tell me to NOT get so involved and care for others now.

 

With this thread (and ofcourse whatever Mermaid writes but we're pretty close anyway. And ofcourse Rachel wherever you are I am always on the lookout) I'm softening towards ONE previously WH if that's true. J has been my friend since early childhood so I couldn't forsake him when he was in his darkest hours either.

 

I'll respond with ** because upper case letters seem like I'M YELLING AT YOU lol. Which I'm not!

 

I'm just so happy for your incredible learnings RO. You've achieved SO MUCH in such a short time. You must've indeed been at your ZPD with this.

 

Wow LH you have gone

 

post crazy here! lol

 

I appreciate it.

 

** my pleasure (and pain sometimes ;-) **

 

YES… Thats it.. That connection.. I so missed that. I even admitted to the other women I talked to and my AP that I missed the connection with my wife. It wasn’t the sex it was the connection for me. Unfortunately I was to messed up, stupid, selfish, ____ etc. to go about a healthy way of getting that back. And to think that the main reason we had no connection was much of my own doing. We did have that connection early on. Then what happened (which you eluded to) according to our MC was that my wife wanted to be a stay at home mom and suppressed that desire because I was in graduate school and she was forced to go back to work. She resented me for that. At the same time I was so consumed by getting my degree and all the pressures associated with that that I literally shut down as far as my relationship goes. I would be up till 3AM most nights just doing my school work. We weren’t intimate for months at a time early in our marriage. It was a very rough start. A young woman with a baby and an absent husband who had to work to help support her family. Our MC thinks that had a big impact on our relationship. She was further damaged by a conversation she had with her mom at the time looking for support and understanding her mom told her to suck it up as when you have a baby and a family you have to make sacrifices. Now there wasnt much I could do as I needed to get my degree so I could eventually go on to have a career and support my family but My wife did lose a part of her then. At least that is the theory.

 

**BINGO! This is the "shut down". Your wife MUST HAVE struggled SO MUCH! And you were consumed with what you had to do. Study to graduate.

 

IMO this is a woman doing her own work and the husband's work plus being a NEW MOTHER which can affect women in the most horrid of ways alone.

 

Mrs RO you are ONE STRONG WOMAN and you should be very VERY proud of your achievements in those early years. Even if nobody noticed. Even if everybody you turned to for support just shut you down. Please go back in time and tell the younger Mrs RO THAT SHE'S EFFING AWESOME!!! Ok you can delete the effing bit.

 

THIS EXPERIENCE of yours will at the very least make you an awesome mother-in-law to your future daughter-in-laws. And have you giving so much more empathy to your grandchildrens parents than YOU received at such a critical time in your life. Well done you!!! **

 

We have many things but sometimes now I wonder if they were things she really liked. She is getting her voice back slow but sure now however as Im hearing it more and more. To answer your question… Camping, traveling, the theatre, eating good food… to name a few.

 

** Mrs RO learnt to shut down BECAUSE her most significant others (you and her mother) basically told her to. This was NOT fair at all. No.

 

To have to go BACK in time for Mrs RO to try to remember who she was before being a mother and a subservient wife. For her to be HER without the accolades of a successful career. (I SO GET THAT!!)

 

Religion, society, SOs and her career TOLD her to deny herSELF so indeed she did!

 

THIS can be a massive undertaking after decades of denial. Yep I know! Snap. Horrible. DEVASTATING when then a D Day of SUCH MAGNITUDE occurs. I know.

 

A shell is all that's left.

 

A family she worked so hard to preserve.

A M she thought was PLEASING to her H.

 

Both shattered.

 

Except a demanding career. Snap.

This also seems empty since the most important things in her life were unable to be saved.

No matter how hard she worked.

 

So ungrateful.

Feeling so unappreciated.

 

To be appreciated now? Seems quite pointless really. **

 

It is sad! Though I know a lot of it was my own doing. I never really realized it was something I wanted/needed until recently. Ive since learned that most if not all men really just want to be admired, respected and adored by his wife. I actually got emotional in MC when My counselor mentioned this to my wife. It is true that I would do most anything for her - I just want to know she is proud of me. Unfortunately Ive bunged it all up by some terrible choices… however there is hope as I am doing things now that she has seen and is aware of. She is noticing that I actually do possess qualities still that would make for a good husband after all. There is hope for me yet I tells ya. And regardless of what anyone says I know I can be her hero some day.

 

** you cannot be appreciated nor admired by a woman who was told to cop it all square on the shoulders and BE HAPPY. Regardless of what anyone around her was doing.

 

Denying her the M she absolutely deserved.

Now the wholesome family she hoped she had.

 

That's all gone now RO.

 

She can't see how to build up from ground zero WHEN all she's ever done is build, build, shut up, build build...

ground zero. **

 

Its on order! Ill pardon the blasphemy.

 

** lol! My parents were Missionaries RO yet my father had an A the POS. Making ME learn any prayers beggars belief. Hypocrite. Completely and utterly.

 

And my mother's D Day was on the day of my baby brother's funeral. Mmmm.

 

Though when I saw the length of your response to mine, I did say CHEEESES! lol. **

 

Ive heard things like that said before (and vs versa about men wanting a wife like their mom - to which Im a major exception to that!)

 

** aha snap lol **

 

I think my wife does look at her Dad as being a really amazing man and a good husband - even though he himself committed adultery. I do think in some ways she doesn’t think I stack up to him and in some ways to her brother who is a successful surgeon. While I am by many accounts successful (Ill keep my profession a mystery) she hasn’t ever really taken a great interest in what I do yet others are very interested. IT is perhaps something to discuss with her. So Mrs. RO if you are reading this please tell me what you think about this… Or better yet join this forum and share with the group. lol Imagine the intrigue if she actually did…

 

** please DO Mrs RO! Lol we are REALLY REALLY kind to betrayed spouses lol! And LOOK at the roasting your H takes. Moving courageously into the Lion's den and actually surviving rather heroically may I add :-) **

 

Regarding your last comment. We have been having discussions spurned by our recent MC session of my wife finding her voice again. My wife has hated her job for years. Which is unfortunate as she is really really good at it and looked up to by many. Wins awards etc.. But none the less loathes going to work most days. She works three days a week yet they are tortuous. So part of our counseling is for my wife to rediscover what she wants out of life and where she would like to be/doing. Turns out not working is high on the list. Or at least not working at that job. She wants to stay home and work from home or be a housewife. I work from a home office. It is her opinion that she can then have a chance to allow me to fully lead and provide for our family to which she will then more easily gain the adoration I seek. Might require me picking up a second job but at least Ill make my woman proud lol. Anyway we are exploring those ideas. In truth just taking care of her more than I have in the past and being an actual spiritual leader for our family is what will make her adore me I believe.

 

** wow that's wonderful ROs. Now maybe Mrs ROs chance at creating the future SHE might choose.

 

I also work 3d / week in a "tortuous" career, though having the enforced SAHM for more years than our finances could handle, was a MAJOR attractant back to that career. It's AMAZING how time out of the field can change one's perspectives.

 

Giving Mrs RO the CHOICES you once had during your 1st year of M, appears to be an effort to balance the power quite a bit more to the equilibrium you seem to seek as a couple. You never know how these things will pan out. A leap into the abyss, though carefully considered one, is a wonderfully freeing experience. **

 

My wife is naturally all over the place so this just takes it to levels previously unknown to mankind. (I know its my fault Mrs RO. Its my own doing… just saying. I love you)

 

** Hang on for the ride of your life!

 

I only used the analogy of an alarm clock set on RANDOM to having a new born baby and toddler lol.

 

But same with post D Day during reconciliation for the BS.

 

Triggers happen like this. Especially at first.

 

UNDERSTANDING WHAT these triggers ARE by identifying them PRECISELY is key IMHO. This is only the 1st step. It's a horrid first step but has to be taken to GET OUT OF the firing line of them for Mrs RO.

 

INDEED the WS would have to be the major trigger.

It could also be situational.

 

I had them 24/7 and after joining LS found my "home" where people could explain to me what was happening to me.

 

I couldn't LIST the pages of triggers.

 

Now so much less but I have developed a strategy that works for me. My sweet bf has also suffered from these terribly without infidelity experiences. We've only been able to conquer these together. Without our exes in the picture.

 

AlieD and others may help more with strategies during R.

 

If Mrs RO wants, I will share my strategies for her. With hopes for her healing. They can be done anytime.

 

I must say that ME BEING kind or calm or nice to exWH triggers him so severely, he can barely cope. It's now that he's suffering the most. I just don't have the capacity to support him anymore. **

 

SOOOO Unpredictable. My gosh its unpredictable. Today we are texting and things are so great. Like Im chatting with my best friend again. Then out of the blue she turns on me with a “Its so unfair you did this to me when I would have never done anything like this to you… What is wrong with you?”. But Im learning. I was also able to switch gears.

 

** the pain is indescribable.

Love SHOULDN'T feel this way. **

 

The counselor I spoke today on the phone said that I am her biggest trigger. I guess that makes sense. A big reason she wanted the separation. She also misses me she says and wants me to be with her often. She has an internal battle going on which she admits to. The two parts of her - one that hates me still and the other that loves me are in a constant fight. Other than that we don’t talk about triggers now that you mention it. I know there must be several but she hasn’t told me when she has them.. Good question.

 

** Mrs RO may not want to disclose to you.

She's had to be strong.

Hold things together independently of you.

Leaning on you now may feel completely counterintuitive to how she's been conditioned to respond to pain or loneliness or simply questioning you or your behaviours.

 

To ask for her deepest needs to be met by the man who exposed her deepest vulnerability may be impossible to a point. **

 

 

Not a bad idea. Ive often thought about writing out an apology that is beyond a simple text or a few words uttered which is what she has had to this point.

 

** I meant a letter for each of her FEELINGS.

Like her questioning your

- love

- words

- plans for yourself

- images of your future M

Etc

 

We have done this very thing. Did it again last night actually when I spent the night at home. My wife seems to appreciate it when I talk about my FOO issues and how they used to impact me. Not saying Im 100% worked through them but soooo much better now. It isn’t easy for me to talk about that stuff and It often makes me emotional which I hate but she appreciates the sincerity I think. She told me last night that it helps her feel empathy towards me which in turn gives her a break of being so hurt and upset with me. I found that to be interesting. But yes as you suggested that discussion led to me saying that those issues played a role but I still didn’t have to make the decision I did. Many people with FOO issues don’t. I followed that by saying that I can’t give her a Why answer that would satisfy her as there is no “why” that would ever be good enough to justify what I did. That was followed by an intense hug.

 

** THIS VERY THING may be a very big connection experience for you both.

 

I remember after the most horrid disclosures of WH childhood happened during the fading R and his mother denied him the next day (when I really THOUGHT she would support him grrrr). I held him sobbing in my arms like my little boy. It was one of the saddest most powerless days of my life. This is upsetting me now. **

 

Oh my wife has asked me many times exactly that. “What does our future look like in your mind”.. she has asked me to spell out how things would look and what would be different. And as you mention God is front and center.

 

 

 

Ok this is getting spooky. I think you have channeled my wife’s inner self here.

 

** I think so too **

 

She has also said the same thing. And I feel it too. She sometimes looks at me - like really looks at me. In my eyes for a long period of time. As if she is trying to figure out who I am in her presence. Its a little weird after about 5 minutes of that but I don’t tell her that. (Mrs. RO. I don’t mean weird in a bad way). She is desperate to know if I am sincere and I realize this.

 

 

Noooo Id never say that. First of all I don’t believe that and second Ive read to many things relating to infidelity and the lists never to say to a BS. The amount of things I’ve read and youtube videos Ive watched is staggering but it has been so helpful not just in the way to help my wife but to better understand what I’ve done to this woman Im supposed to love. I have said very similar things to what you say here.

 

 

 

The ogre won’t win.. Im to determined to let that happen. Ive taken proving my love for her to new levels. I have a morning flight to catch tomorrow (I need to get to bed) for a meeting but Im going to get up a couple hours early just so I can sneak into the house and do something nice for her (she really likes bible verses and Ive been buying them and putting them on the walls - can’t remember if I mentioned that here or not). She might wake up and thats fine but I want to make sure she knows she is my first priority. So anyway..

 

 

Nope.. Im as solid as I remember ever being actually.

 

 

At the weekend affair recovery thing? nope.. its like 12 hours a day of intense therapy. No time for anything other than major intense healing going on I assume. But she is opening up more and more to doing things together. She asked me today if I ended my 3 month apartment lease early if I would not have to pay my last month. Although she followed that up by asking me if I had to stay longer if I could renew the lease. lol

 

** no. At other times RO **

 

Chickens? My wife loves chickens. I had them growing up. I hate them unless they are on my plate. My wife however seems to think they would bring lots of joy to her life. If only our HOA agreed.

 

Best wishes

LH

[mikeylo]

OP, I know you don't like me , lol but here is another tip. You mention that most men like to be admired, respected etc. but so do women. They are also human, lol! But at this point in time , you need to give all these to your wife without expecting it in return. She may not be saying but it's very normal for her to lose respect for you after seeing your this side. She is probably thinking that she gave you the respect you didn't deserve when all the time you never respected her. While she admired a facet of you , you were busy admiring other women.

 

Also ,other women got compliments , admiration from you and what she gets from you is bible verses , lol ! Not making fun but still.

 

In other thread you mentioned that you indulge female clients? Is it a mistype? Or you indulge , really ? You are not even out of the hole yet but are digging it deeper. You don't have to stop for her. It's not a favor to her. That's what you are supposed to do anyway !

Edited November 5, 2016 by mikeylo

[Regretful one]

Dear Mr & Mrs RO, lol just in case!

As a precursor I wanted to say that I smile at your progress and this time I cried and triggered myself. My darling bf has had to tell me to NOT get so involved and care for others now.

 

With this thread (and ofcourse whatever Mermaid writes but we're pretty close anyway. And ofcourse Rachel wherever you are I am always on the lookout) I'm softening towards ONE previously WH if that's true. J has been my friend since early childhood so I couldn't forsake him when he was in his darkest hours either.

 

I'll respond with ** because upper case letters seem like I'M YELLING AT YOU lol. Which I'm not!

 

I'm just so happy for your incredible learnings RO. You've achieved SO MUCH in such a short time. You must've indeed been at your ZPD with this.

 

Best wishes

LH

 

Thanks for the post LH. And thank you also for the great things you said about and to my wife. I am going to suggest she read it today as I think it will be helpful for her. Ill also suggest she join this site and post. I know I would sure love to see what she would have to say in this type of forum. She loves to text but doesn't seem to be into forums like I am. Maybe that will change.

 

Sorry that this thread and dealing with this WH triggers you but then maybe it will be somewhat therapeutic to you as well?

 

Have a great weekend.

[Regretful one]

OP, I know you don't like me , lol but here is another tip. You mention that most men like to be admired, respected etc. but so do women. They are also human, lol! But at this point in time , you need to give all these to your wife without expecting it in return. She may not be saying but it's very normal for her to lose respect for you after seeing your this side. She is probably thinking that she gave you the respect you didn't deserve when all the time you never respected her. While she admired a facet of you , you were busy admiring other women.

 

I don't know why I'm doing this. I know Ill regret it later. Anyway.. her goes.

I don't dislike you. I don't know you. I just find your comments to be arrogant, insulting and usually not all that helpful. No offense.

 

Yup... I'm aware women are human and like to be admired and respected. I wasn't saying they don't - was answering a question posed by LH when I wrote what I was missing and wanting to be admired and respected. I wasn't suggesting that only myself or men in general have this need. I am not expecting anything from my wife right now. I give her compliments and do things for her. I have no expectations from her at all. Of course she (and any BS) would lose respect for their spouse after infidelity.

 

Also ,other women got compliments , admiration from you and what she gets from you is bible verses , lol ! Not making fun but still.

 

She gets more than that. It was an example of something I had done. The only reason i kept doing it is because she really appreciated it. Its an action I can do that means something to her. Simply telling her things doesn't speak as loud as doing things right? Well you are not my wife (thankfully) and this might not mean much to you but it does to her. Things like compliments have to come at the right time or there is no sincerity to them. I can't tell my wife how beautiful I think she is after she just got done calling me an ungrateful ass now can I??? I can't tell her how much I admire her abilities as a wife/mother etc. right after she cries to me about how hurt she is from what Ive done right??? What I CAN do is show her I care by doing something that lifts her up. Which those "bible verses" you laugh about do for her. I do now and will more in time make sure she hears compliments etc. from me but it has to be at the right time or it has no meaning or sincerity.

 

In other thread you mentioned that you indulge female clients? Is it a mistype? Or you indulge , really ? You are not even out of the hole yet but are digging it deeper. You don't have to stop for her. It's not a favor to her. That's what you are supposed to do anyway !

 

Lets not take my words out of context here buddy. I was referring to conversations I have had with male and female clients of mine. I am an architect. When a client and I are discussing their project often times tangents are taken. A guy might start talking about hunting with me. A female client might tell me about their son who is getting married. Another might tell me how unseasonably cold it has been. Things like this. I am not going to interrupt a client male or female to tell them we must strictly talk about the project. That is asinine! When I go to the dentist and they start talking about a car they just bought, Im not going to stop her and say "listen miss dentist, I cheated on my wife a few months back so we must keep our conversation strictly about my teeth". I am courteous. Professional. Kind. Honest. These are attributes I try more now than ever to posses especially with people I do business with.

 

I am not digging anything deeper at all. As i mentioned in the other thread I am taking steps to not having private meetings with female clients even though it was never an issue in the past. I am not flirting with any of these people. I am a professional interacting with my client. I do want to be able to provide for my family. My wife is welcome to listen in on any conversation (and she has in the past just by overhearing). Im sure if my wife has an issue with it she would tell me. My wife is welcome to speak up now as Im sure she will read this here. Im not going to start bickering with you again. If you want the last word go for it.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Regretful one

[merrmeade]

As i mentioned in the other thread I am taking steps to not having private meetings with female clients even though it was never an issue in the past.

Huh. I didn't get this from "the other thread," so glad you reiterated the idea here.

 

oh and just wanted to say that I love your embrace of christianity, love of the Bible and how (you report that) it informs your life and reconciliation with your wife - and I am someone who chose to seek spiritual fulfillment beyond the religion of my childhood (christianity). My respect is for your sincerity and commitment to becoming a better person and sticking to the path you have chosen. It inspires and fills me with respect - not to become a christian again but to stay with and enrich my own spiritual path.

Edited November 5, 2016 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

Dear Mr & Mrs RO, lol just in case!

As a precursor I wanted to say that I smile at your progress and this time I cried and triggered myself. My darling bf has had to tell me to NOT get so involved and care for others now.

 

With this thread (and ofcourse whatever Mermaid writes but we're pretty close anyway. And ofcourse Rachel wherever you are I am always on the lookout) I'm softening towards ONE previously WH if that's true. J has been my friend since early childhood so I couldn't forsake him when he was in his darkest hours either.

 

I'll respond with ** because upper case letters seem like I'M YELLING AT YOU lol. Which I'm not!

 

I'm just so happy for your incredible learnings RO. You've achieved SO MUCH in such a short time. You must've indeed been at your ZPD with this.

 

Best wishes

LH

Gotta love the lion heart (and be loved) but what's ZPD?

[Lion Heart]

Gotta love the lion heart (and be loved) but what's ZPD?

 

Lol IN and kind of AT one's ZPD...

 

Zone of Proximal Development. In LH words lol, the zone at which we approach or get into where we have our greatest learnings. Actually when we're READY for the knowledge. It's only THEN when we really LEARN it yay!

 

(Still my summary lol) it's when we are asking OURSELVES the most questions about a subject and the wisest of us all also ask OTHERS for the answers.

 

Exposure of infidelity in our spouse (and our desire for reconciliation Mermaid) in our cases at least caused a HUGE ZPD for us. More like a BANG lol. I asked YOU Mermaid and you answered my thousands of questions.

 

Our WHs were not quite like RO. Well barely resemble him at times it seems. But still RO must have had SO MANY QUESTIONS of himself and his own behaviours that he got sick of denying those nagging questions of himself and caused the BANG himself.

 

I know ROs infidelities and other sordid behaviours went on for a long a time BUT he did come clean - which shows some conscience. And he HAS sought the knowledge to heal himself and therefore change his NEEDS for these behaviours.

 

We all know that patterns or habits we develop are REALLY hard to change lol STBexVWH says of me that my only addiction is to ANGER lol! Rofl..I will say in my "defense" if I even NEEDED one lol was that ME being kind, patient, understanding, devoted and faithful got me NOWHERE with him bc he's an entitled pig :-) lol.

 

A normal person DOESN'T take their partner for granted NOR expect them to work as a free ATM nor expect them to "turn 25 blind eyes" mmm nor expect them to fund the NEXT set of wasteful addictions on top like gambling and endless weekends away for them "alone". No indeed lol. So yeah I kinda got angry at times.

"Roaring like a Lion at WH and purring like a kitten with me" says my bf. But I've still been WAY too good to WH even as an ex apparently.

 

Almost time for my Thread on this. Not quite. Not ALL either! A later time for ALL of it.

 

Recognizing other's ZPDs is funny at times. My kid's are usually at theirs on the topic of SEX whilst I'm in the car on a long drive, no way out! And no WH to control the conversation.

 

Now he's gone we've had those conversations over breakfast mmmmm! Lol.

 

Sex is one thing.

LOVE an entirely different topic for some.

 

Lion Heart

[merrmeade]

Almost time for my Thread on this. Not quite. Not ALL either! A later time for ALL of it.

 

Recognizing other's ZPDs is funny at times. My kid's are usually at theirs on the topic of SEX whilst I'm in the car on a long drive, no way out! And no WH to control the conversation.

 

Now he's gone we've had those conversations over breakfast mmmmm! Lol.

 

Sex is one thing.

LOVE an entirely different topic for some.

 

Lion Heart

Hell, I think it's time for a BOOK and a publisher.

[Regretful one]

Update.

 

It has been a week since i last posted. A lot has happened. I just got back from my EMS seminar in Texas. This was the program put on by affairrecovery.com It was incredibly intense and incredibly helpful yet painful. I can't recommend it enough for any unfaithful or betrayed spouse for many reasons. My wife would say the same thing. I am going to spend a fair amount of time here recounting some of what this experience was for me. This will be a long post so I understand if no one wants to read all of this. As Ive said before In many ways this thread has become a journal of sorts for me. In light of that please forgive my ramblings and feel free to skip ahead.

 

I can't begin to go over everything that we covered and worked through.. If anyone has any questions Id be happy to answer. It was not a retreat promoting reconciliation necessarily, it first and foremost a safe place to deal with the issues and promote understanding and healing. It did have a Christian theme but they were also very respectful of those there (and there were several) who were not Christians. There were 20 couples attending. About 5 of which were unfaithful women with betrayed husbands. The couples were all often separated out into smaller groups of 5 with a single counselor when not in the group with all couples. Two days were about 12 hours long with the last day being about 8 hours. There were breaks for bathroom visits and meals. Three straight days spent at an all inclusive resort. The counselors had all themselves gone through infidelity in some manner and all specialized in infidelity, and a couple also in sex addiction and other related. This was key as our current MC obviously has little experience dealing with infidelity. To say it was a game changer or even life changing for me personally might be an understatement.

 

Ill talk a little about the exercises (for lack of a better term). There were three that come to mind that were incredibly difficult and helpful. On the first day in our small groups we had to take about 20 minutes to tell our story. It was up to the unfaithful to do most of the talking for obvious reasons. I had never told the story before in front of my wife. Other than my confession to her I had never told the story in her presence. When I told others she was't with me. I hadn't considered how difficult that would be to do. In front of her, the counselor and 4 other couples I described how I betrayed my wife. I wasn't even able to get through the first sentence before I teared up. I started to look at the floor as I spoke and the counselor asked that I keep my eyes up on my wife. I can't describe how difficult this was for me to do yet I know it pales to the pain my wife has felt. As each husband shared how they had betrayed their wife we each watched. I saw other husbands like me tremble as he described the terrible things he had done and lied about. I watched each wife as tears rolled down their face as they sat and listened in front of strangers how the man who promised to love and honor them lied, cheated and defiled their marriage instead. It was the first moment of the weekend where a bit of the seriousness was truly felt. Its not that I (or the other husbands) didn't grasp the pain or seriousness of the betrayal we had committed but it was now a graphic and audible display of the hurt that existed which we had all caused. Of the 5 couples Id say there were two husbands who hadn't at the begininning yet "got it". I don't feel that it would be right or respectful of the situation to share details of someone else's story but each was sad and uniquely terrible.

 

There were several other lectures and talks that occurred. All very helpful. Many statistics, descriptions of the whys, hows, etc.. etc.. Then a mentor couple shared their story. A horrific story about a continued affair which some how was able to be reconciled when most who heard couldn't believe it would be possible. In fact when introduced they were billed as the couple with a story worse than those of us listening. While that is up for debate I suppose, it was good (and yet incredibly difficult as well) to listen to a couple share all the pain they went through yet eventually find a way though it and end up in a marriage now that they say is beyond what they believed possible. They say that with all the pain gone through they wouldn't change anything if it meant losing the amazing marriage they currently enjoyed.

 

The Unfaithful were separated from the betrayed. The 15 men (the 5 unfaithful women were in their own group). At that time we talked about some of the costs of our infidelity. It was sobering to go around the room and hear a little from each man describe what his choices has cost his wife. Then we heard a letter written by an unfaithful man who definitely "got it". I hadn't heard an unfaithful person put to words so well just much he had hurt his wife. In an odd way it inspired me as I want nothing more than to convey to my wife just how sorry I am. While I know my words do little they also do a lot. Each WH spent the next two and a half hours alone writing out a list of 40 things their infidelity had cost their wife. That was followed by a "hurt letter". Ill share a little of what I wrote to my wife. Please understand these are personal - they are based on things I know that my terrible choices have cost MY wife. Your situation might be different. I know that some of what I wrote might make some here want to criticize how I worded things. Please just take them for what they are.

 

*My infidelity cost you your identitny of a wife who had a loving husband because I betrayed you.

 

*My infidelity cost you trust in other men because now you think most men would do this.

 

*My infidelity cost you your smile because nothing brings you joy now.

 

*My infidelity cost you trust in yourself because now you feel foolish for not knowing I have been lying to you for so long.

 

*My infidelity cost you self respect because you had to go through the embarrassment of getting an STD test.

 

*My infidelity cost you your happiness because now you hate the person you also love.

 

*My infidelity cost you any chance of being proud of your husband because who would be proud of a man who would do this to his wife.

 

*My infidelity cost you years of a better marriage because I never loved you like I should have.

 

*My infidelity cost you your ability to laugh because what I did to our marriage is so sad.

 

*My infidelity cost you at times your desire to keep on living because the pain I have caused you is unimaginable.

 

*My infidelity cost you me because I was not what you thought I was.

 

That is just a sample of the 40 I wrote. The counselor placed two chairs in the center of the group and I had to read each one while looking at my wife as I read aloud. Besides the original confession to my wife I can not think of a more difficult thing Ive ever had to do. The list of 40 could have easily been a list of 100. Taking an honest inventory - even a partial one of the things Ive done to my wife, the things my infidelity has cost was so so very hard. No unfaithful husband (even the two who didn't quite "get it" previously) could get very far into this list without tearing up. The other wives as well as the other husbands also needed the boxes of kleenex spread around the room. Words can't describe what occurred. One of the BW described the exercise as being sacred. The BW said nothing, only listened. It was incredibly heavy yet as I was told incredibly helpful for each BW to know their husbands understood the cost.

 

The following day we read aloud in the same manner our "hurt letter".. That letter was equally difficult to read. Ill keep that letter private.

 

In all the experience was very helpful. As much for me as for my wife. I can't say that I came away from the weekend thinking that everything was better about things but then that wasn't really the intent. Understanding, recovery and healing was the goal. The realization that it is a process that takes and undetermined amount of time. A better idea of the cost. Hopefully for every BS a feeling that their spouse could better understand the depth of pain caused. And yet the counselors were also very respectful of everyone. The unfaithful were not belittled or made to feel like the scum of the earth and the betrayed were never made to feel like there was any blame they needed to accept for the infidelity. For those who wanted, God was there. For those who didn't, it wasn't pushed. Im not sure how else to verbalize that. I can't recommend this program enough for anyone dealing with infidelity regardless of weather or not you want to reconcile.

 

We spent a night on our own before flying home today. My wife and I had more intense, deep, heart to heart talks over the past few days than we have in the previous 22 years I think. I think we know each other at levels we never have before. I feel a connection and understanding I've never felt before. I have great sadness that it has taken this for me to do things I am now doing. I own every bit of that. I am beyond grateful that my wife was willing to even go to this "retreat" with me. I was a lucky man to even have this woman in my life before I did what I did. Words aren't available now to describe how thankful I am to still have her love and willingness to try salvage our marriage.

 

I havne't mentioned this till now but my wife has said she would like to end our separation. She said this prior to the weekend. She now says she misses me and needs me at home. I have told her to take her time and to make sure she feels safe and that its what she is sure she wants. She tells me its time. I am again without words. I am not deserving of what she is offering me - I know this. I also know however I am a different man than I was and that I still have a ways to go. Im thinking It will take me a life time to get where I want to go. She would like to have a web cam placed in my office. She would like to have monitoring software on my phone and computer. Im happy to oblige. I want her to feel safe and rebuild trust.

 

She still floods. She still has really hard days. She still has questions. Today on the flight home we probably spent 30-40 minutes doing a Q&A about my affairs. Whispering back and forth. I still hate answering questions and Im sure she still hates asking them but its part of the process. She is the love of my life and Ive never been more sure of that than I am today. Tomorrow Ill say the same thing.

 

We have talked some about this forum. She said she doesn't want to join or post. She is "ok" for now with me posting on here. She has given me a list of rules - no private messages for example which all make perfect sense. I have been honest with her. She knows where I have been weak in the past. We both have spent time (and time during our retreat) discussing the possibilities of a relapse. I know I can't trust myself and have to take the approach that I am weak even when I feel strong. I will do anything and everything to prevent a slip. I promised her on our wedding day I would be faithful to her. I broke that promise so promises like that now are somewhat empty now. Moving forward I don't put myself in situations where I have to be strong. As for this forum I have freedom to post, read at will. I am not to seek approval or affirmation from any reader as in many ways that was/is my addiction. I welcome encouragement and thoughts but I am not looking for pats on the back. I was after all a cheater. Someone who betrayed his wife. I lied and lived a double life for about 7 years. I broke the heart of my wife into a thousand pieces. I have been forgiven by God and believe my wife will eventually forgive me as well. My mistakes and poor choices don't define me. Its not who I am but it is who I was and that will never change. I have such great hope.

 

I have seen BS cry. I have seen other women sob. Its not easy to watch/hear. I have seen other men like myself full of regret and remorse each wishing they had the ability to turn back time. Pain from infidelity is so very real. I am so sorry that most of you reading this have had to go through it too - from either side. It is truly a terrible thing.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Regretful one

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow.

 

You are a Unicorn.

 

Great. Unbelievably great.

[Jump Through Loops]

It takes a lot to face ones pain head on like that. Sir, Your wife is an amazing woman.

[waterwoman]

Well done RO!

 

That sounds amazing! I reckon something like that would help so many couples. For a WS to clearly and publicly show that he understands the impact of their actions and deeply regrets them would be so wonderful. I reckon a lot of BS chaos and rage after DDay is the equivalent of someone screaming for help in a foreign language, no one can understand completely what you desperately need to say so you get hysterical and angry. Fortunately for me WS was willing to listen and was unwaveringly remorseful but it was still a slow and painful process. An retreat like the one you attended might have simply sliced through all the crap and left us with the task of rebuilding sooner.

[aileD]

Thank you for the insights into EMS

 

Praying for you and Mrs RO for a happy life.

 

One thing that was suggested on a site about the questions BS has about the affair.... it was that she wrote down the questions on separate pieces of paper and place them in a bowl or a jar. You can spend some time picking out a question and answering it once a day once a week or however much time she needs. But if answering all the questions all at once is too overwhelming this kind of breaks it down so that you can spend a night talking about one of the questions

[Lion Heart]

Congratulations to both you and Mrs RO for coming through that weekend. Ofcourse there's hope. There's always hope for a couple who BOTH devote themselves to R.

 

Last week a therapist told me "this will be your life's work" (recovery from abuse / infidelity). And they say that M is a life sentence lol. No it shouldn't be.

 

But it is when infidelity occurs.

 

That's the depth it reaches.

 

If there's one thing I've learnt (indeed there are thousands of things I've truly GOT now) it's to never trust another person 100%.

 

I'd like to trust my partner 99%! Lol. Or 97% maybe.

 

My dear boyfriend HAS been a steady ship in the storm that continued in my heart, soul and mind after Separation. The pain is only spiked when I read something here mostly. But it's part of the healing process to cry. To work through everything alone.

 

I'm so fortunate to meet someone who truly does show he loves me more than any man I've known. Now most especially.

He wants to protect me.

Guard my heart.

He does appreciate me so much!

Likewise all of those for me.

 

Getting to that place where you will always guard your BWs heart (when it's you who shattered it) is an oxymoron of emotions for a BW.

 

To alieDs suggestion...this may work well. IDK.

 

For me I wanted to SEE WHs reaction to see if he was still HIDING things. Giving WH time to think of how he could water it down REAL WELL until it was almost palatable to me would not have worked for me.

 

But then again he was a master of deception.

 

7 years is LONG Asd time to be able to hide things from Mrs RO.

Though she could be feeling what myself and many BWs thought "I put in ALL these HARD years into this M and man for his profession. I want the good times now. Look what I got in return".

 

I ended it on such realizations.

My investment in the M was far greater than his on all levels. I paid for his retraining in 5 different fields.

He was unqualified in anything when we met.

I also suffered the mountains of hours he spent studying.

 

Raised 4 children solo most of the time. (3 born in under 2.5 years). It was effing HARD.

 

Thank goodness I won't have a repeat of THAT to challenge me! lol. No matter what is in my future.

 

But the work you're doing on YOUR SELF and your FOO issues is at the core IMHO, RO. It's my belief that until you rebuild that core. Forgive and love that marvellous little boy who was abused so horrifically. BE horrified for HIM.

Just love him like no one seemed to do.

Heal.

 

It's difficult to do this whilst spinning the plate of rebuilding your M and family life. But you mentioned once that your BW was supportive. I was too when so much came out. Until....he stopped therapy.

I couldn't help him.

He needed help way beyond my expertise!

Beyond many counsellors too.

 

I'm glad you found experts RO.

Our suspicions re your MC may have been well founded.

 

Well wishes to you all

Lion Heart

[BTDT2012]

Continued prayers for you and Mrs. RO.

[BTDT2012]

How are things going for you?

[Regretful one]

Thank you for the posts.

 

Has been a while since I've posted. Things are good - relatively. We are both involved in so much therapy it seems. After our weekend retreat we had assignments to work on. We also have a 90 minute phone call each week with a group of 3 other couples that were at our same retreat. A mentor couple leads the discussion and that has tasks/assignments for us both to do each week. My wife is also doing a program called "harboring hope" which is a program put on by Affair Recovery for betrayed spouses. I am doing my mens group, we go to church, on top of that we are each reading books about infidelity and self improvement. On top of that we are continuing our regular marriage counseling once a week which is a two hour session also providing assignments. So.. A LOT of therapy! Keeps me very busy and there are times where I just need a break to let my mind relax and not think about all of it. Im sure my wife is the same.

 

For a long time my wife would have a difficult time even crying (she did but it was not frequent). Since we have been back from the EMS weekend retreat she has found her emotions. I suppose she is less "numb" than before. This is as much of a roller coaster as ever still. She can be seemingly happy one minute and crying the next. I am doing what I can to support her but often times I have no words and just hold her. I think you just get to a point where nothing can be said. We both know what we have to work on and do so when she cries I just try to make sure I offer her affection and attention if she wants it.

 

Ive been home for over a week now and it has been really good. The separation was good for what it was but it became a barrier and Im so grateful my wife felt the same way. I never pressured her to move back in - it was her choice. She even helped me move on one of the days which I really appreciated - not so much for the help but for what that symbolized to me. I am eternally grateful that my wife has been willing to work with me on us and not simply file for divorce because of what Ive done. I offered to move back into the spare bedroom and she didn't want that and hasn't looked back. Life is ok. I feel so much better about myself these days and my recovery is in a really good place. As is typical the recovery for the betrayed does not follow a similar path on a chart to that of the unfaithful. And I know it will take months, years for my wife to work through this. I remain patient. While its early still (15 weeks past D-Day) I think we have made progress on our own healing/recovery. Ive learned its important to not look at day to day or week to week for signs of progress - but looking month to month I can see things getting better. This is not to say my wife isn't in pain like she was... she most certainly is! In fact I think I see as much or more pain now than I did in the first month but I have a sense that its part of the process now and have a much better understanding I think. My infidelity occupies 90% of our lives right now it seems and thats just our way of life right now. But God is so good and working on our behalf for what is best for each of us. I know this.

 

As mentioned before I have "web watcher" software installed on my phone and computer. I don't know anything about it as my wife installed it. She also had me purchase a web cam that links to her phone. The cam is set up in my office so she can look at me whenever she wants. I think it helps her feel safe and I am happy that it helps her. In a way I also appreciate having those things as it creates another level of accountability.

 

I hope everyone here is doing well. I know there are more betrayed here than unfaithful, but if any unfaithful men here should ever feel like talking to someone about where they are at let me know. Regardless if you are further along than I am or just dealing with a more recent D-day. Ive found it very helpful to talk to other unfaithful. Likewise, my wife has found it to be so helpful to her to have someone to talk to who is going through this as well. We both text and talk to a couple we met at our retreat that have a lot in common with us. I remember how lonely I was especially those first 6 weeks or so. Not knowing what to do/say. A little encouragement can sure go a long ways in dealing with this from either side.

[merrmeade]

This is the first thread in several years I've thought about sharing with my husband. He really wanted as little as possible to talk about or deal with my recovery. Of course, I insisted anyway because I had to; I would've gone crazy if 'we' hadn't talked (mostly me). He said as little as possible but answered questions - sort of, usually). Seemed like he was just waiting it out until I got over it one way or another.

 

But this is what I had wanted -- him, working on himself at the same time. You give hope that a WS can get it.

[merrmeade]

What we all want and need is the incredible depth of feeling and understanding for her pain that you are willing to show and able to express. My husband did some things right but this is not one of them, and without it the BS has to orchestrate her own recovery. Good for you and for your wife for what you've accomplished.

[aileD]

What we all want and need is the incredible depth of feeling and understanding for her pain that you are willing to show and able to express. My husband did some things right but this is not one of them, and without it the BS has to orchestrate her own recovery. Good for you and for your wife for what you've accomplished.

 

I agree. This is so important in recovery.