First Post

[Criostoir]

Hello all, new to the forum but have been reading for a while.

 

I'm not sure where to begin, as my story is a pretty lengthy and complicated one. We've been married for about 7 years now, but together for roughly 11. I should mention that, in many ways it's always been kind of a rocky relationship, even from the beginning, and I think a lot of our early problems were rooted in the age difference (I'm 7 years older than her). Not just the difference in age, but in maturity levels. We are also very different personality types, and come from different social backgrounds, which has also complicated things over the years. I'm introverted, fairly private, and have only a small group of people that I would call close friends. I'm also not really someone that has an easy time of being open and expressive about "feelings." Moreover, I'm in a profession that I can't talk a lot about openly and that takes me away from home quite a bit. Until recently, my wife has always taken this as me being a "secretive" person.

 

I should mention that she does suffer from some mental health issues that have made things very difficult at times. She has a very hard time with conflict resolution and maintaining relationships...and that obviously carries over into our relationship. There's also been some substance abuse that made things hard. I actually threatened to divorce her several years ago if she didn't stop drinking because of all the problems it caused us. She did quit for several years, and then started again about 6 months ago. I told her I wasn't going to judge her for it, but that she needed to be aware of what the drinking does to her, as well as our relationship. I feel bad about mentioning some of these things and I'm not here to drag her through the mud, but I feel like they are important to understanding the situation.

 

Anyway, around the same time, she started doing and saying things that raised a red flag with me (she didn't think she wanted kids anymore, etc)...she'd go out and stay out late and ask me to come pick her up because she couldn't drive, or she'd not come home at all. The more I think about it, she hasn't really been "IN" the marriage for more than a year.

 

Despite all of that, we've always had a special connection. We've been through rocky times, but always found a way to maintain the relationship, even if there were things that went unresolved. We've talked about going to marital counseling for several years (I was resistant to it or made excuses for why I couldn't go.) In hindsight, I wish I would have gone years ago, when it might have helped us. I've not been perfect, either, so I don't want to make it sound like I have. I know that I've been neglectful through the years, either consciously or otherwise, and I realize that now.

 

A couple of months ago my wife had a traumatic experience that I won't go into too much because of the nature of it, but she inexplicably blames my mother for it. She also blames me...and completely ignores anything that she may have done to contribute to what happened. Since then, things have rapidly deteriorated between us. I love her, but won't be blamed for what happened because it's total nonsense. She's a very irrational person that won't accept any other viewpoint once she's built something up her head.

 

About a month ago I had to go out of town for work and she had several melt downs while I was gone...sending me texts stating that "she couldn't be in this house alone, etc." Just completely irrational thinking. She needs to be in counseling, but inexplicably, hasn't gone even though she knows she needs to.

 

About three weeks ago she went to go stay with a friend. There wasn't really anything specifically that prompted it, and I didn't know that she was going to be staying there long term, because she didn't mention it. She did come home one night a couple of weeks ago and mention that she thought counseling would be good for us (we've been talking about going for a while). When I asked her why she thought it would be good, she said "You know why...for the split." We went to the first session this past week, and I have to say that it was a positive experience, if for nothing else it provided a safe forum to discuss things that would otherwise be off-limits. She mentioned during the counseling session that the goal for her was to be able to split amicably, and how she just didn't see any way that things could work out between us. I haven't tried to fight her on that, outside of getting a little upset the night she first mentioned it. Since then, I've kept my distance...I always allow her first contact, and keep things short when she does. She mentioned she was coming home Thursday night, and we had a nice time out for dinner...no fighting, very enjoyable. She was fairly affectionate towards me (certainly more than normal). The next morning she mentioned that she was going to her friend's, and hasn't been back since. I have not contacted her at all, which I think is the right thing to do. She texted me yesterday, saying that "it's important for me to know how much she loves me, etc." to which I replied "thanks for saying that."

 

I'm not sure what to do at this point, other than maintain NC. It will be difficult to do long-term because of the logistics of it all. She doesn't have the financial means to just up and move out, so I imagine that she will have to have time to figure out where she's going and what she's going to do. Part of me just wants her completely out of my life now so that I can move on...

 

There's still a lot of love between us, but I just think that emotionally, she's in some other place now. I don't think there's been infidelity per say, although I will mention that she's got a close male friend that she talks about a lot. Probably just keeping him at arms length for now until things are resolved between us, or maybe not. Who knows...when I have asked she said she's not having a physical or emotional affair with anyone. Still, I wonder. When you've been replaced emotionally, there's usually someone in the picture.

 

I guess I will just maintain NC for now and take things week by week. We have counseling again on Wednesday, so I guess I will see her there. This limbo stuff sucks, but I'm not sure what else I can do for now.

 

Sorry for the lengthy first post...this is just a very complicated situation. I'm sure I've left a lot of stuff out.

[Lowrider93]

Based on the story you have told I have to ask you what you are getting out of this relationship, you said that she is not capable of making it on her own financially right now so I assume you are supporting her, you seem to be very level headed and not torn up about the breakup, that's really good.

 

If I had to guess I'd say that she is involved with someone else and this could be your opportunity to be free from her.

[Criostoir]

Based on the story you have told I have to ask you what you are getting out of this relationship, you said that she is not capable of making it on her own financially right now so I assume you are supporting her, you seem to be very level headed and not torn up about the breakup, that's really good.

 

If I had to guess I'd say that she is involved with someone else and this could be your opportunity to be free from her.

 

Thanks for the response.

 

You're correct in your assumption that I'm still supporting her financially, as she isn't working at the moment. I'm not sure what she will do or where she will go long-term, and honestly, I am pretty concerned about her and how that will look.

 

To answer your question - I'm not sure what I'm getting out of it at the moment. At the end of the day, she's a good person with a lot of potential. I guess it's the potential that I cling on to...I try to see people in the best possible light. And of course, I do love her very much, and as long as I do it will be difficult to let go, even if I have no other choice.

 

You could be right about the other person, although it would be out of character for her...at least from a physical standpoint. So I don't think she's in a sexual relationship with the guy. I've actually met him before and, well, didn't feel very threatened by him. That said, I definitely feel like she's detached from me emotionally and he's currently filling that void.

 

It's a confusing situation as, like I mentioned in my first post, I do feel like she's still somewhat attached to me based on her texts, etc.

[Pete2304]

Do you want to fix things? And are you still in love with her, really love her not just because she's been in your life so long but really truly in love?

[Downtown]

She does suffer from some mental health issues that have made things very difficult at times. She has a very hard time with conflict resolution and maintaining relationships.

Criostoir, welcome to the LoveShack community. Has your W's "mental health issues" been diagnosed by a professional and, if so, can you tell us what they are called? If not, it may be worth your while to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD might help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her. Take care, Criostoir.

[Sparta]

OP she's having a physical relationship with someone else that's where she is every time she leaves just to give you heads up buddy ... she's completely disrespected you and she only need you for money get out went to one that loves you for who you are she doesn't

[Criostoir]

Criostoir, welcome to the LoveShack community. Has your W's "mental health issues" been diagnosed by a professional and, if so, can you tell us what they are called? If not, it may be worth your while to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD might help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid taking her back or avoid running into the arms of another woman who is just like her. Take care, Criostoir.

 

Sadly, the 18 BPD warning signs fit her to a T. She has been diagnosed with depression and post-traumatic stress (she had an abusive childhood).

 

She also displays extreme fear of abandonment. During the first few days of NC, she texted me saying "please don't abandon me." What's funny is that nobody (to include my family) had abandoned her. My parents love her as well. After the "traumatic experience" I described in my OP, she verbally abused my mother to the point that my mom had to block her calls and texts. It was really, really irrational behavior.

 

The more I read about BPD, the more rings true. Very sad.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Criostoir

[Criostoir]

Do you want to fix things? And are you still in love with her, really love her not just because she's been in your life so long but really truly in love?

 

Yes, I'm still in love with her. I just don't think it's going to be as simple as "fixing" anything. She has serious personality issues that I've ignored for a long time. It would take her wanting to work on things, as well as getting treatment for her mental health issues.

 

She hasn't been to therapy since her last melt-down, and relies on me to try to get her prescription refilled...

[Just a Guy]

Hi Criostoir, yours is a sad tale but one that you probably have brought on yourself. If I may say so you are flogging a dead horse here and the end result will only be painful for you. The best that you can do is set her down gently and let her go. Just do the 180 on her and maintain minimum contact. If required and you feel responsible for her, you can keep supporting her financially till she is able to stand on her own feet or, her family steps up and takes charge of her. As per what you have written and what Downtown had to say you should slowly but surely detach from her and stay as far as you can from her at least as a romantic figure in her life. You may continue as a friend if you wish but make sure she knows that. She may require extensive psychiatric treatment including, if necessary, admission into an institution.

 

You need not 'abandon' her as she fears but you do not have to continue as her husband as otherwise you will be the one who will be severely hurt. Warm wishes.

[Downtown]

I think a lot of our early problems were rooted in the age difference (I'm 7 years older than her). Not just the difference in age, but in maturity levels.

If your W really is a BPDer as you suspect (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent BPD traits), your difference from her "in maturity levels" would far exceed 7 years. BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old. This is why they are fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses used by young children. These defenses include, e.g., projection, denial, black-white thinking, magical thinking, and temper tantrums.

 

There's also been some substance abuse that made things hard.

A large-scale study found that two-thirds of female BPDers also have a substance use disorder. Nearly half (46%) of those female BPDers have an alcohol use disorder. The figures are even higher for male BPDers. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

We've talked about going to marital counseling for several years.

MC may be helpful if her BPD traits are only mild to moderate. It likely would be a total waste of time, however, if she exhibits strong to severe BPD traits. Although MCs usually are good at teaching communication skills, a BPDer's lack of skills is far more serious. A BPDer typically lacks many emotional skills. She thus needs years of intensive training on how to trust, how to do self soothing, how to manage her own emotions, how to integrate the positive and negative aspects of her personality, how to stay in the present instead of escaping through daydreams into the past and future, and how to intellectually challenge intense feelings instead of accepting them as self-evident "facts."

 

I love her, but won't be blamed for what happened because it's total nonsense. She's a very irrational person that won't accept any other viewpoint once she's built something up her head.

If your W were a narcissist or sociopath, that false allegation likely would be a deliberate lie that is intended to manipulate you. If she is a BPDer, however, she likely believe the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth.

 

Because BPDers are filled with intense shame and self loathing, their subconscious minds work 24/7 protecting their fragile egos from seeing too much of reality. The subconscious accomplishes this by projecting hurtful feelings and thoughts onto YOU. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, she will be absolutely convinced -- at a conscious level -- that the bad feelings are originating with YOU. And a week later, when she's claiming the exact opposite, she will be just as convinced that nonsense is true too.

 

About a month ago I had to go out of town for work and she had several melt downs while I was gone...sending me texts stating that "she couldn't be in this house alone, etc."

Generally, BPDers absolutely HATE to be alone. The main reason is that a BPDer has such a weak, fragile self identity that she has a great need to be around someone with a strong personality who will ground and center her. Another reason is that a BPDer has a very weak sense of "object constancy." That is, she has great difficulty seeing that other peoples' personalities and feelings tend to remain constant day to day.

 

She's a good person with a lot of potential.

BPDer generally are good people. Their problem is not being bad but, rather, emotionally unstable. Moreover, my experience is that they can display a childlike purity of expression -- and project a sense of vulnerability -- that makes them very easy to fall in love with. It thus is not surprising that two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

It will be difficult to let go.

Until you've actually done it, you have no idea how difficult it will be. Walking away from a BPDer you've been with for 11 years will feel like you're abandoning a sick defenseless child. As I said, BPDers are childlike in many respects due to their stunted emotional development.

 

Yet, if your W really is a BPDer and refuses to work hard in treatment, walking away is exactly what you should do. Otherwise, you will continue to harm her by destroying all her opportunities to have to confront her own issues and learn how to manage them. As with young children, it is important -- for her own well being -- that a BPDer be held accountable for her own bad decisions and bad behaviors. Further, your presence in the home will continue to trigger her two fears, abandonment and engulfment.

 

She has been diagnosed with depression and post-traumatic stress.

About 80% of female BPDers have at least one mood disorder -- e.g., 36% of them have Major Depressive Disorder and 47% have PTSD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.

 

She had an abusive childhood.

Most abused children do not develop BPD. Such abuse, however, greatly raises their risk for developing it. Moreover, 70% of BPDers report that they had been abused or abandoned in childhood.

 

She also displays extreme fear of abandonment.

Abandonment is a BPDer's greatest fear. The other great fear is engulfment, i.e., the suffocating feeling of being controlled and losing oneself in the strong personality of the partner. Unfortunately, these two fears lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that you are always in a lose/lose situation with a BPDer because, as you are backing away from one fear, you're unavoidably drawing closer to the other.

 

Specifically, as you draw close to assure her of your love, she will soon feel engulfed and suffocated by the intimacy. She therefore will push you away by creating a fight over nothing. Yet, as you back off to give her breathing space, you will start triggering her fear of abandonment, causing her to start love bombing you again at some point. The result is that BPDer relationships usually exhibit a repeating cycle of push-away and pull-back.

 

She hasn't been to therapy since her last melt-down.

Although BPD cannot be cured at this time, most major cities offer excellent treatment programs (e.g., CBT and DBT) that teach BPDers how to manage it. But, sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to seek out such programs and stay in them long enough (several years at least) to make a real difference.

 

The primary reason is that BPD, by its very nature, nearly always is invisible to the person suffering from it. Hence, BPDers -- particularly the high functioning ones -- nearly always lack the self awareness to see that they are responsible for their own bad behaviors. Although I've seen no published statistics on it, my best guess is that perhaps 5% of high functioning BPDers have that necessary self awareness.

 

The self awareness, however, is insufficient. It also must be accompanied by sufficient ego strength for the BPDer to be willing to work hard in therapy for many years. I would guess that 1% at most are able to do that.

 

The more I read about BPD, the more rings true.

Given that you found the 18 warning signs applicable, Criostoir, I offer several suggestions:

 

As an initial matter, if you suspect your W has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist and let the psych decide what to tell her.

 

Second, if you decide to leave your W, I would suggest you read Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing a Borderline or a Narcissist. If you decide to stay, however, I would recommend Stop Walking on Eggshells, the best-selling BPD book targeted to the abused spouses.

 

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) in the "Detaching" message board at BPDfamily.com. And, while you are there, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. A good article to begin with is Surviving a Breakup with a BPDer.

 

Fourth, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. As I've explained in other threads, your best chance of getting a candid opinion regarding a possible BPD diagnosis is to NOT have the BPDer along. Therapists are loath to tell high functioning BPDers the name of the disorder -- for the client's own protection.

 

This is true even when you are paying the bill and attending some of the sessions. Hence, to obtain a candid assessment, it is important to see a psychologist who is ethically bound to protect only your best interests, not hers. Relying on your W's therapist for advice during the marriage would be as foolish as relying on her attorney for advice during a divorce.

 

Fifth, I suggest you read an explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way during our childhood. The best explanation I've found is Shari Schreiber's article at Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved?. Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with our parents, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) FAR exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). The last half of her article is the most insightful part so please be patient when reading it.

 

Finally, please don't forget those of us here on the LoveShack forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Your thread has already attracted nearly 200 views in less than a day.