Sucks being the average guy, right?

[j_flow]

The top one being, I still don't feel like I'm in a place with myself where I would be all that great in a relationship. By that, I mean, I've spent most of the last two years working to improve myself in a lot of ways, but there's still some things I want to take care of before I even really open myself up to dating again. I'm aware that we are never the finished product and that self-improvement need not stop just because you get coupled up. Still, I think it would be irresponsible of me to focus on dating or seeking a relationship when I, for instance, still am correcting some financial issues caused by several years of poor choices on my part.

 

I see a lot of reflection in that. Now I feel like I need to meditate on this conversation and get some more insight in terms of knowing whether I'm ready or not. Maybe this is a sign that I've got much deeper issues to find. And maybe rejection and "lack of success" just compound these sorts of problems and puts them further behind the veil.

 

You've totally helped a complete loser stranger posting on love forums tonight - thanks man

[j_flow]

This is why it's so important to really feel what you're feeling, but also ask "why?" as you peel back the layers until you hit the core. With introspection, I know that it's not really her I miss nor am I angry about her relationship. I miss her children every day, but I know they are well cared for and have a stable male presence in their lives. And that's what really matters.

 

You're amazing mate

[Blanco]

I see a lot of reflection in that. Now I feel like I need to meditate on this conversation and get some more insight in terms of knowing whether I'm ready or not. Maybe this is a sign that I've got much deeper issues to find. And maybe rejection and "lack of success" just compound these sorts of problems and puts them further behind the veil.

 

You've totally helped a complete loser stranger posting on love forums tonight - thanks man

 

You're already ahead of the curve for even being willing to examine other perspectives and try different approaches with all of this. Kudos to you.

[normal person]

For the dates, in the beginning I did breakfast, lunch, or some sort of walk in nature (beach front, trails, etc). Often food would be at a "hipster but damn cheap" place; think fancy poutine, a breakfast and beer place, etc. I should mention I never paid for her meal because I figure if that would be what kept her I'm not interested anyhow. Now I've been doing far more casual coffee dates to try to gage interest first. Given, I haven't gotten a date in two months.

 

Here's a tip: don't go for breakfast or lunch. They aren't "sexy" experiences. Dating is a lot like foreplay. There's an allure about the whole thing you should to capture and dinner is much more conducive to that. The ambience is better, she gets to wear the dress she likes and look hot, you have some wine, etc. It's a sexier experience. Breakfast and lunch are not sexy.

 

Also, not to start a off-topic discussion, but you should always pay (if you're American, I assume you might be Canadian because you mentioned poutine). I'm not sure what the dating culture suggests up north but if you're in the US, a lot of girls have it socially ingrained in them to not pay for things if a guy asks them out. I wouldn't be quick to designate that mentality as a character flaw. Even some of the nicest, smartest, most liberal, egalitarian women just think you'll be paying for everything. It's just the cost of doing business, so accept it. (Also, a girl probably doesn't want to have to stuff her face with poutine in front of you).

 

If you think your problems stem from "average-ness," what are you doing about it, if anything?

[BlueIris]

So I've never been good at dating. I used to have a lot of successes with one night stands when I was 16-19 and partied quite a bit harder, but never really "dated". Then I had a 4 year committed relationship and broke up a year ago.

 

To cut to the chase, I've been getting rejected for about 7 months. I did a month long experiment on various dating apps and found that with a ****ton of effort I could net a date every once in a while with a chick way below my standards. However the vast amount of silence and conversations that lead to silence was soul crushing, and the dates I got were unsatisfying at best.

 

So I realized that dating sites were a trap for men and started hitting on more women in real life. I then got rejected a bunch more. So I went on FB and said "if you're a friend of mine I'm attracted to and we never speak anyhow I'm going to give it a shot, worst case we never speak again." Which ended up going the "never speak with any of those girls again" path, even after a date.

 

And so I slowly started hitting on random women again this month. I've gotten two numbers and an email, and all have led to silence.

 

Just letting all you guys out there in a similar position know that you're not alone on your boat. Many are broken in the same way. Whether you're afraid to walk up or not, whether you have a good story or not, whether you're worth it or not. The most painful part? If you were the sort of person who attracted women, you would have a lot of women by now. Taking risks while being honest about who you are and your intentions won't necessarily help, because being just yourself never did in the first place.

 

What's your goal? People tend to have less "success" and to be more disappointed when they haven't pinned down what their goals are. I realize its passé to many, but if your goal is to find a lifetime partner, marriage and family, the way you go about dating is going to be very different from how you go about dating if your only goal is to have fun or to have sex. I think this is the crux of much of the dissatisfaction today. People don't want much so they don't do much and then they're disappointed- but they didn't want much to begin with.

[ZA Dater]

Firstly. Average doesn't really exist. Exceptional does exist but exceptional to me might be average to someone else.

 

 

I agree with a lot of Blanco says in this thread, its very sage advice.

 

 

I for one am going to try out his advice given in this thread and perhaps not take things so seriously and be less worried about what people think and just go with it and say things instead of thinking it.

 

 

We all tend to do too much self analysis perhaps.

 

 

To the OP, you definitely aren't average, you are exceptional to probably many people.

[preraph]

Thanks.

 

I suppose I don't sweat the relationship thing as much as I used to for a few reasons.

 

The top one being, I still don't feel like I'm in a place with myself where I would be all that great in a relationship. By that, I mean, I've spent most of the last two years working to improve myself in a lot of ways, but there's still some things I want to take care of before I even really open myself up to dating again. I'm aware that we are never the finished product and that self-improvement need not stop just because you get coupled up. Still, I think it would be irresponsible of me to focus on dating or seeking a relationship when I, for instance, still am correcting some financial issues caused by several years of poor choices on my part.

 

Another thing that's caused me to stop sweating the relationship stuff so much is that I'm surrounded by so few examples of quality relationships. I see a lot of relationships that exist out issues such as comfort or desperation. There are quality relationships and quality people out there, but it's hard to feel like I'm really missing out sometimes when I see so many unhealthy, shoddy relationships. This, of course, is not to say that I wouldn't entertain developing something with someone I felt was worthwhile. I'm just in no rush to find stopgaps until that person comes along.

 

The way I see it, I'm getting myself into a position where I'm more at peace with myself and more marketable/enticing to potential partners. In the meantime, I'm just enjoying the journey along with the non-romantic things in life that add value to my day.

 

That's kind of what dawned on me at some point. When you're young, your head is filled with expectations that love and marriage is the cure-all and will make your unhappy life happy. Truth is whatever you are not married, depressed, happy, bitter, bored, you will also be married. A partner may give you a lift for awhile if you're down, but eventually your attitude will bring down the relationship, plus the new simply wears off eventually and the high goes away. And you're thinking "Is that all there is -- was?"

 

After seeing the fate of some of my girlfriends who married, I wouldn't trade places with any of them. I will take a nice dog over someone who gives me problems every day not being considerate. And that's the daily scenario, not the worst parts. Some of my friends have much bigger problems than that with their spouses like trying to run their friends and family off, not being able to be trusted to watch a toddler, not coming out of their room or ever getting off their computer to be with the family, alcoholic, groundlessly jealous, etc.

 

I have only ever met one couple who said their husband truly took 50 percent of the responsibility and chores in a marriage. And actually, he takes more than that. I would think they were the perfect couple if they hadn't become religious fanatics and homophobic out of nowhere. But at least they agree on things, right?

 

Point is, if you're an unhappy person, marriage isn't the cure. Then you will just be an unhappy person tied to another unhappy person.

[j_flow]

Here's a tip: don't go for breakfast or lunch. They aren't "sexy" experiences. Dating is a lot like foreplay. There's an allure about the whole thing you should to capture and dinner is much more conducive to that. The ambience is better, she gets to wear the dress she likes and look hot, you have some wine, etc. It's a sexier experience. Breakfast and lunch are not sexy.

 

...

 

If you think your problems stem from "average-ness," what are you doing about it, if anything?

 

Yeah, that's probably a good truth. I just wanted the dates to be low investment and cheap but unique, really. I'm starting to feel like there are other issues I need to churn through before I open myself up the dating world again.

 

And I don't think it really relates to "average-ness", I think I might have messed up the title. More like I felt at the time you need to be exceptional to see anything.

[preraph]

Here's a tip: don't go for breakfast or lunch. They aren't "sexy" experiences. Dating is a lot like foreplay. There's an allure about the whole thing you should to capture and dinner is much more conducive to that. The ambience is better, she gets to wear the dress she likes and look hot, you have some wine, etc. It's a sexier experience. Breakfast and lunch are not sexy.

 

Also, not to start a off-topic discussion, but you should always pay (if you're American, I assume you might be Canadian because you mentioned poutine). I'm not sure what the dating culture suggests up north but if you're in the US, a lot of girls have it socially ingrained in them to not pay for things if a guy asks them out. I wouldn't be quick to designate that mentality as a character flaw. Even some of the nicest, smartest, most liberal, egalitarian women just think you'll be paying for everything. It's just the cost of doing business, so accept it. (Also, a girl probably doesn't want to have to stuff her face with poutine in front of you).

 

If you think your problems stem from "average-ness," what are you doing about it, if anything?

 

Paying int he early stages at least is also for the man to show that he has the means to provide. Because let's face it, though that sounds archaic, women often get pregnant and at least need to lean on a working man for a few months afterward, if not longer. If a man is looking for a real relationship, he will want you to know that he is equipped to help provide. And of course it's also fair game for the woman to show her financial capabilities at some point and pay for some things, but it's not like the man is going to get pregnant and need to lean on the woman for a few months, is it?

 

So the equation is not 50-50 for anyone thinking it ought to be. It's not, until you can carry the baby yourself.

[HillValley]

I feel like SexntheCity and shows like that have created an unrealistic impression of dating. Most people don't have the time or money to spend on every Friday night.

 

in reality the idea of modern dating is only like 30 years old. Before that young people were still less mobile.

[j_flow]

I feel like SexntheCity and shows like that have created an unrealistic impression of dating. Most people don't have the time or money to spend on every Friday night.

 

in reality the idea of modern dating is only like 30 years old. Before that young people were still less mobile.

 

Hmm, it's a good question though. I do wonder what the average dating life looks for women v men, but it's another one of those questions that probably won't help anyone feel any better.

[normal person]

I feel like SexntheCity and shows like that have created an unrealistic impression of dating. Most people don't have the time or money to spend on every Friday night.

 

in reality the idea of modern dating is only like 30 years old. Before that young people were still less mobile.

 

I've never watched it but what's so unrealistic about it? Going to a restaurant and putting a little effort in?

[ZA Dater]

I've never watched it but what's so unrealistic about it? Going to a restaurant and putting a little effort in?

 

No harm at all. Provided one is making getting favourable experiences. If you are getting kicked to the curb continuously then the effort would be better expended into other areas of life.

 

 

The reality is nobody is ordinary but there are many sheep in life, many apathetic people, many isolated, many conceited people, many manipulative people. If you feel like drudging through there are some good people.

[preraph]

Well, most people don't live in New York and live in shoeboxes and walk or taxi everywhere. When I was in high school, everyone had a car and was extremely mobile, and that was in the late 1960s. Where I live now, everyone has a car. We don't depend on transit. The only places that depend on transit are small overcrowded towns like NYC or Boston. Most cities in the US are either smaller towns or big cities, but they are all spread out making depending on public transit impractical. Here in Dallas, we go to the grocery store a couple miles away and come home with six bags in the trunk and that's the only real way to do it.

 

I agree not everyone has the money to go on expensive dates. When I was in high school, ordinary dates consisted of the guy picking you up and taking you to a Sonic for a Coke, and then on special occasions, there would be a dinner date. In college, people were even broker, but just found things to do to around campus, went and had a beer or to play pool.

 

I would just say if you're not solvent enough to provide a modest date to a woman, you certainly don't need to be looking for a wife until you are able to hold up your end and support your own self. Then find a woman who can also support herself. But it's impolite to ask a woman out and then not pay for her dinner. If she wants to reciprocate, she can ask you out and pay or cook you dinner, but it's just rude in the extreme on the first few dates to even consider not paying if you're doing the asking.

[HillValley]

I've never watched it but what's so unrealistic about it? Going to a restaurant and putting a little effort in?

 

I meant volume of dates. The actual time and energy to weed through prospects and actually land a date. Most people don't live in NY or Chicago.

[JustGettingBy]

I've never watched it but what's so unrealistic about it? Going to a restaurant and putting a little effort in?

 

Not everybody works Monday-Friday 9-5. Some people can't take the time off of work on a Friday or Saturday night.

[basil67]

I've never watched it but what's so unrealistic about it? Going to a restaurant and putting a little effort in?

 

Not only volume of dates as mentioned above, but the representation of everyone being so beautiful. It's something I particularly notice on TV produced in the US - everyone is a 9 or a 10.

 

Oh, and everyone of note in the show has career success.

 

If a person isn't in touch with reality, it could easily skew their expectations of a partner.

[normal person]

Most cities in the US are either smaller towns or big cities, but they are all spread out making depending on public transit impractical. Here in Dallas, we go to the grocery store a couple miles away and come home with six bags in the trunk and that's the only real way to do it.

 

Fair enough, but I'm not sure how this makes things unrealistic. It's just a nuance specific to a certain city. If the show took place in Venice, people everywhere else wouldn't expect to travel by gondola to meet someone.

 

I would just say if you're not solvent enough to provide a modest date to a woman, you certainly don't need to be looking for a wife until you are able to hold up your end and support your own self. Then find a woman who can also support herself. But it's impolite to ask a woman out and then not pay for her dinner. If she wants to reciprocate, she can ask you out and pay or cook you dinner, but it's just rude in the extreme on the first few dates to even consider not paying if you're doing the asking.

 

I whole-heartedly agree with you here.

 

I meant volume of dates. The actual time and energy to weed through prospects and actually land a date. Most people don't live in NY or Chicago.

 

Not for nothing, but at some point you've got to notice a correlation between population size/density and opportunity to meet people. If you can't see why your odds of finding someone who meets your criteria are abysmal in a small town, that's not television's fault. It's just basic math. I'm from a small suburb (~30k people), by the time I got to high school I knew there was no one in my town that was right for me, so if I wanted better odds I'd need to go to a bigger university, and/or live in a much larger city. If that's not your predilection, that's fine, but you can't figure it's easier to catch fish in a puddle than in an ocean. Like I said, I haven't seen the show, but mostly everyone here in NYC dates in high volume. There are lots of people to sift through. It's just the culture the environment breeds. Not that that doesn't cause it's own unique set of challenges.

 

Not everybody works Monday-Friday 9-5. Some people can't take the time off of work on a Friday or Saturday night.

 

This is probably not the majority of people, but fair enough. To be honest, I'd rather go out on a week night when getting to know someone initially. I wouldn't want to intrude on their weekend plans right off the bat. I assume a weekend is more sacred to people, and not necessarily reserved for strangers. Just my thought process. In NYC it's common to go out during the week.

 

Not only volume of dates as mentioned above, but the representation of everyone being so beautiful. It's something I particularly notice on TV produced in the US - everyone is a 9 or a 10.

 

Oh, and everyone of note in the show has career success.

 

If a person isn't in touch with reality, it could easily skew their expectations of a partner.

 

Also a fair criticism, but that's Hollywood for you. People like to look at good looking people. If they cast less good looking people, less people would watch, presumably. You make a good point about being in touch with reality. But if someone can't get in touch with it, that's largely their own problem.

 

 

I have a different experience. I haven't seen the show but I'm well aware of things like it: similar shows, magazines like GQ or Esquire who suggest you "need" thousands of dollars worth of designer clothes, watches, cars etc. When I was younger, I'd see things like that and accept that sort of lifestyle was just the bar for normalcy. I didn't consider the fact that these shows, ads, and magazines were fabrications or businesses first and foremost. I was naive enough to trust the media. I never really considered it unrealistic, I just figured that lifestyle was just what everyone had, and that's what adult life was like, so I'd better really work hard to keep pace.

 

All that being said, it's not impossible to reach the top of the mountain. You have to make sacrifices and do things a lot differently (and more difficultly) than others, but once your hard work (be it school, career, whatever) and advantageous decision making pays its dividends, I don't think it's impossible to get the things you want or meet the people who have lived life in a similar fashion. I've always known the kind of person I've wanted to be with, my problem in my younger years (just out of grad school, aged 22-25) was that I couldn't find her, or perhaps if I could, I wasn't yet qualified to keep her. That's more or less why I moved to NY and kicked my own ass to be successful and do/get the things I wanted out of life. And I'm happy I did, because I've met a lot of great people who I was looking for fruitlessly before.

 

I agree it's good to have realistic expectations, but these things aren't impossible. They can be done. You can be with that amazing, smart, accomplished, beautiful person you've desired your whole life. It will probably just take the better part of your 20s to do it. But you need to consider work and rewards from a younger age. I think it's realistic to say that if you work hard enough, you can get the things you want. Sadly, I guess a lot of people don't do that as there might be a bit of an "entitlement" culture today.

[ZA Dater]

If a person isn't in touch with reality, it could easily skew their expectations of a partner.

 

The mass media doe a great job of doing that anyway.

[planning4later]

the mass media doe a great job of doing that anyway.

 

??????????

 

?

[ZA Dater]

 

I agree it's good to have realistic expectations, but these things aren't impossible. They can be done. You can be with that amazing, smart, accomplished, beautiful person you've desired your whole life. It will probably just take the better part of your 20s to do it. But you need to consider work and rewards from a younger age. I think it's realistic to say that if you work hard enough, you can get the things you want. Sadly, I guess a lot of people don't do that as there might be a bit of an "entitlement" culture today.

 

Take this from whence it comes but a someone who lives in third world country far removed from NYC those statements are so off bat. Everyday I see people trying their best at dating, work, they can try all they want but success is not assured. Nothing is really assured.

 

Realistically how many people land up with someone they really want?

 

I am all for hard work and determination but to imply doing that will assure you are success is just to me another way of being entitled, entitled by the virtue of "I have worked hard I deserve that'.

 

Life simply does not work like that or perhaps it does in NYC.

 

Undoubtedly so called average people can do above average things but I do believe some people inherit a dating advantage in terms of looks and the ability to charm. Everyone can punch above their weight if they try BUT that on its own wont assure success.

[normal person]

Take this from whence it comes but a someone who lives in third world country far removed from NYC those statements are so off bat. Everyday I see people trying their best at dating, work, they can try all they want but success is not assured. Nothing is really assured.

 

I never said anything was assured, I just said it wasn't unrealistic if you do what's necessary. I won't deny the circumstances of other people or places. Admittedly, sometimes you can only do so much. But I'd wager most of the time you can probably do more than you think, or more than you're comfortable with. Elon Musk is from South Africa, from what I remember reading about him he did everything he could to get to Canada/US, and then thought ahead of the pack to determine what the biggest problems of the future were going to be, and set out to solve them ahead of time. Now that's the kind of gumption and resourcefulness that will change your life. I'm not saying it's easy for everyone to become a billionaire, but if you want something badly enough, and your circumstances aren't totally oppressive, hard work and adaptable thought can reasonably yield you those things.

 

Realistically how many people land up with someone they really want?

 

I am all for hard work and determination but to imply doing that will assure you are success is just to me another way of being entitled, entitled by the virtue of "I have worked hard I deserve that'.

 

Is there a way to quantify this? I don't know. I'm speaking in terms of western cultures here. I imagine most people don't marry people they hate. But the divorce rate is high, so presumably lots of people aren't thinking critically when they do get married. Failure to exercise foresight.

 

And again, success is never assured. There are many more nuances to consider, much more than can be mentioned here, but time and energy need to be focused in the "right" areas. You can be very successful in things that no one cares about. Or you can hunker down and be successful in things that you might not even like, yet things you realize you have to do to get the things you want even more. If you wanted something but didn't have it, then you did what you needed to get it, I don't see what's wrong with considering that "deserving" or "entitlement." I think of a friend of mine, he was an average student at best in high school. I couldn't really see him doing much with his life then. One day in class we were just talking about grades and something just clicked with him, and he made a concerted, conscious effort then and there to do better, studied dilligently and became determined and hyperfocused throughout the rest of high school and college, and went on to become a pharmacist. There was a night and day transformation in him, he now in no way resembles the person he was.

 

Life simply does not work like that or perhaps it does in NYC.

 

Funny you should say that about a city whose mantra is famously "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere." Very few people here have it "easy." If someone here has done well for themselves on their own merits, or achieved a goal, or gotten something or someone they desire, you can be pretty sure they've worked their butt off, made tons of sacrifices, and/or adapted as needed.

 

Undoubtedly so called average people can do above average things but I do believe some people inherit a dating advantage in terms of looks and the ability to charm. Everyone can punch above their weight if they try BUT that on its own wont assure success.

 

Everyone is born with different advantages and disadvantages. Bill Gates said "if you're born poor, it's not your fault. But if you die poor, it is your fault."

It's admittedly a little extreme, but at some point to spur progress, people need to challenge themselves and do the uncomfortable things that incite change and learning. Everyone should try. Everyone should learn. Most importantly, everyone should adapt. It's all Darwinism. If you don't at least try and do the things necessary, you won't succeed. If you try, if you adapt, if you evolve, you give yourself much, much, better odds.

[ZA Dater]

I never said anything was assured, I just said it wasn't unrealistic if you do what's necessary. I won't deny the circumstances of other people or places. Admittedly, sometimes you can only do so much. But I'd wager most of the time you can probably do more than you think, or more than you're comfortable with. Elon Musk is from South Africa, from what I remember reading about him he did everything he could to get to Canada/US, and then thought ahead of the pack to determine what the biggest problems of the future were going to be, and set out to solve them ahead of time. Now that's the kind of gumption and resourcefulness that will change your life. I'm not saying it's easy for everyone to become a billionaire, but if you want something badly enough, and your circumstances aren't totally oppressive, hard work and adaptable thought can reasonably yield you those things.

 

 

 

Is there a way to quantify this? I don't know. I'm speaking in terms of western cultures here. I imagine most people don't marry people they hate. But the divorce rate is high, so presumably lots of people aren't thinking critically when they do get married. Failure to exercise foresight.

 

And again, success is never assured. There are many more nuances to consider, much more than can be mentioned here, but time and energy need to be focused in the "right" areas. You can be very successful in things that no one cares about. Or you can hunker down and be successful in things that you might not even like, yet things you realize you have to do to get the things you want even more. If you wanted something but didn't have it, then you did what you needed to get it, I don't see what's wrong with considering that "deserving" or "entitlement." I think of a friend of mine, he was an average student at best in high school. I couldn't really see him doing much with his life then. One day in class we were just talking about grades and something just clicked with him, and he made a concerted, conscious effort then and there to do better, studied dilligently and became determined and hyperfocused throughout the rest of high school and college, and went on to become a pharmacist. There was a night and day transformation in him, he now in no way resembles the person he was.

 

 

 

Funny you should say that about a city whose mantra is famously "If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere." Very few people here have it "easy." If someone here has done well for themselves on their own merits, or achieved a goal, or gotten something or someone they desire, you can be pretty sure they've worked their butt off, made tons of sacrifices, and/or adapted as needed.

 

 

 

Everyone is born with different advantages and disadvantages. Bill Gates said "if you're born poor, it's not your fault. But if you die poor, it is your fault."

It's admittedly a little extreme, but at some point to spur progress, people need to challenge themselves and do the uncomfortable things that incite change and learning. Everyone should try. Everyone should learn. Most importantly, everyone should adapt. It's all Darwinism. If you don't at least try and do the things necessary, you won't succeed. If you try, if you adapt, if you evolve, you give yourself much, much, better odds.

 

Bold point three I totally disagree with.

 

Why do something you don't like on the presumption it will yield success in other areas. How do I know this, because I have done many thing I don't like and oddly still don't have any of the things I really want.

 

Perhaps adapting can yield things but really I look around I am see no fairy tales at all, its a case of like with like, apples with apples and pears with pears.

 

I think peaches and oranges merely represent the fictional plot of the next Hollywood rom com.

 

Where I do agree is one needs to invest in dating, you either try it wholly or you don't try it at all. I cant be bothered to go out with random people and waste my time, I'll only go out with people I

: like from the off

: have a reasonable chance of integrating with.

 

Another good point is, yes you can lift yourself above everyone else, make yourself stand out but you can also end up standing out for the wrong reasons, like I do for example. I don't conform in shape or form and sure it makes me stand out, I get a huge amount of respect for this unwavering stance but guess how many dates I got. Practically none.

 

Whereas the supposed "average guys" have many.

 

You either choose one of two things

1: Live life by your own rules and with your own intentions and embrace your uniqueness and hope its enough to be at the very least respected.

2: Model your life on everyone else and hope you enjoy it enough in he hope you get the things you want.

[normal person]

Bold point three I totally disagree with.

 

Why do something you don't like on the presumption it will yield success in other areas. How do I know this, because I have done many thing I don't like and oddly still don't have any of the things I really want.

 

Assuming that it doesn't work at all because it didn't work for you is an oversimplification. What sort of risk/reward was at stake? What sort of hard hours/labor/time investment was involved, and to what end? There's a big difference between choosing a demanding but rewarding career path, and say, trying to act a little more outgoing.

 

Perhaps adapting can yield things but really I look around I am see no fairy tales at all, its a case of like with like, apples with apples and pears with pears.

 

"Adapt or die." - Darwin

It's not the smartest or the strongest that survive, it's the most adaptable. If you want a certain person or things in life, you'll likely have to adapt a bit to get them rather than force your inherent identity down society's throat without compromise. For example, I can be very sarcastic (in the most affectionate, well-intentioned way), and it took me a while to realize that it can be a turn off, so I have to pick the time and the place for it. I used to be on a different career path, but I realized that not only was I not in love with it, but it wasn't very conducive to getting me the life I wanted, so I had to adapt and do something else that did, even if the work was harder and life is more stressful at times -- the people or things I wanted are accessible now.

 

Where I do agree is one needs to invest in dating, you either try it wholly or you don't try it at all. I cant be bothered to go out with random people and waste my time, I'll only go out with people I

: like from the off

: have a reasonable chance of integrating with.

 

This is a good method if your time and money is at a premium, however I'd say that you can usually take something away and learn from every interaction and apply it elsewhere. It worked well in my earlier years.

 

Another good point is, yes you can lift yourself above everyone else, make yourself stand out but you can also end up standing out for the wrong reasons, like I do for example. I don't conform in shape or form and sure it makes me stand out, I get a huge amount of respect for this unwavering stance but guess how many dates I got. Practically none.

 

Whereas the supposed "average guys" have many.

 

The secret sauce is not just doing anything you don't want to do, it's doing the right things you don't want to do. The ones likely to yield you the good stuff. Putting in the hours to start your own business is probably a better time investment than putting in the hours to meditate.

 

You either choose one of two things

1: Live life by your own rules and with your own intentions and embrace your uniqueness and hope its enough to be at the very least respected.

2: Model your life on everyone else and hope you enjoy it enough in he hope you get the things you want.

 

I don't think it's an "either/or" scenario. You can still maintain your individuality and principals while living up to societal expectations. There are varying degrees of this. For example, most people probably don't want to have to work. So assuming most people are working just out of necessity, think to the degree people are putting up with unlikable jobs just for the rewards, and what the rewards are.

 

Also, in another line of thought, adaption is the norm. Most people tend towards what's seen as typical, commonplace, etc. Is it a conscious thing? I don't know. But I'd imagine most people want to find a partner, have a typical life, and don't want to do anything too drastic that would make them stand out or jeopardize it. Most people see conforming to some extent as a viable path to remain in other peoples' consideration. If you remove yourself from the pack by too great a distance, it becomes unusual.

 

It can be good to stand out within a group, but if you stand out too far, you might find yourself too far away from the group for them to afford you what you want out of them.

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Not only volume of dates as mentioned above, but the representation of everyone being so beautiful. It's something I particularly notice on TV produced in the US - everyone is a 9 or a 10.

 

Oh, and everyone of note in the show has career success.

 

If a person isn't in touch with reality, it could easily skew their expectations of a partner.

 

I don't know. I didn't think either Charlotte or Miranda's men or courtships were anything to write home about, not attractive at all. Charlotte's guy was nice, but felt like she was beautiful and could have found someone more attractive AND nice. Miranda's guy was a loser all around and nothing resembling a real date that I remember.

 

Only Carrie had the larger than life Mr. Big, and he didn't treat her right most of the series.

 

I hate shows that take place in NYC because they always show people living beyond their means right out of high school. Plus just sick of the scenery.