Author Chica80 Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Apologies. I think I may not have been the only one a bit confused by the title, as well as the content of your first post...considering the turn the thread has taken. T/J unintended No worries. I understand when someone says something that really makes sense for you. And you want an answer. No you're not the only. Like I said previously so many threads already discuss those topics. I'm guess I'm just in a place personally where I'm so sick of the back and forth is it love is it not and everyone gives their opinion about what it all means when on reality everyone will tell you what is true based on their experience. And in the end I find it doesn't really matter because we ourselves already know the truth. So again to look internally instead of externally. We just don't want to face it and need strangers to tell us what we already know. They can tell you and guess what all the external means. But no one can really tell you what is going on internally. That is my point. Edited October 19, 2016 by Sunshinechica 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OneLov Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Genuine question here. You say you loved your AP. So, why did you not go with her? I love my wife dearly, and I would slaughter everybody in the world if she asked me to. There is nothing or no one that could keep me away from her. At least that is the way I look at it. I could not live with myself knowing there was someone I loved out there who I wasn't or couldn't be with. So, if you loved her like you say, what stopped you from pursuing the dream? Because she wouldn't end her marriage, and I didn't want to be no. 2. So as cliche as it sounds, I loved her so much I let her go. I wanted a legitimate relationship with her. I didn't want the affair. I hated living a lie and had to confront the truth. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Birdies Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 (edited) Because she wouldn't end her marriage, and I didn't want to be no. 2. So as cliche as it sounds, I loved her so much I let her go. I wanted a legitimate relationship with her. I didn't want the affair. I hated living a lie and had to confront the truth. I think this is how my AP felt about me too. I never really considered leaving my marriage or even telling my husband about the affair (so selfish, I know, I know!!!). So we knew we needed to end the affair and were working up to that. But then D-Day happened and it blew everything wide open. I was forced to evaluate whether I was truly happy in my marriage, or whether I was just committed to it ("committed" and cheating) because I loved my husband and being with him was all I knew, versus whether it was the best relationship for us. I so regret how our divorce happened, but I don't regret that it happened. I think we will be happier without each other than together, even though we still love each other very much. But god I wish I could undo the hurt I did to him Anyway not to deviate from the topic at hand. In regards to that, yes I was definitely using my MM for a few things that were severely lacking in my marriage. 1) Time spent doing hobbies together (running, skiing, biking, etc - my favorite things to do with my now xH but he was always too busy or didn't want to) 2) Just the love and attention and connection that starts to diminish in a long-term relationship. I felt completely taken for granted and invisible to my husband. 3) A sexual connection that was/is unlike anything I'd had before - not to get too TMI or anything. I remember, I was at my therapist's office last spring and was talking about some of the problems with our sex life in my marriage (before D happened) and started crying because it hit me that I literally couldn't remember the last time I wanted to have sex with my (nowX) husband. Like, going back 10 years or more. How horrible for him I just always thought I wasn't a very sexual person, and I knew I had a lot of resentments toward my H in recent years that manifested in not being attracted to him, but I just would go along with it anyway. So actually feeling attracted to someone and enjoying a sexual relationship with them is pretty spectacular. I know that always fades somewhat with time, but we are starting out at a really great starting position! Edited October 19, 2016 by Birdies 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Chica80 Posted October 19, 2016 Author Share Posted October 19, 2016 Sorry on my phone and don't know how to post multiple posters in one post. onelove are you married or where you married during A? How long did it last? Birdies I know what you mean about sex. It feels so complete, not just physical but emotionally connected as well. It's about mutual pleasure. Not like a task but because we both want eachother to be pleased. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OneLov Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 No I was/am not. It lasted about a year. Link to post Share on other sites
mizunomead Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 its a interesting thought. in my mind both parties are obviously crossing boundries and"using" each other to fill some kind of perceived holes in there lives in a selfish way. both are equally culpible. you cant blame the other, you must blame yourself for getting involved to begin with Link to post Share on other sites
norudder Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I think this is how my AP felt about me too. I never really considered leaving my marriage or even telling my husband about the affair (so selfish, I know, I know!!!). So we knew we needed to end the affair and were working up to that. But then D-Day happened and it blew everything wide open. I was forced to evaluate whether I was truly happy in my marriage, or whether I was just committed to it ("committed" and cheating) because I loved my husband and being with him was all I knew, versus whether it was the best relationship for us. I so regret how our divorce happened, but I don't regret that it happened. I think we will be happier without each other than together, even though we still love each other very much. But god I wish I could undo the hurt I did to him Anyway not to deviate from the topic at hand. In regards to that, yes I was definitely using my MM for a few things that were severely lacking in my marriage. 1) Time spent doing hobbies together (running, skiing, biking, etc - my favorite things to do with my now xH but he was always too busy or didn't want to) 2) Just the love and attention and connection that starts to diminish in a long-term relationship. I felt completely taken for granted and invisible to my husband. 3) A sexual connection that was/is unlike anything I'd had before - not to get too TMI or anything. I remember, I was at my therapist's office last spring and was talking about some of the problems with our sex life in my marriage (before D happened) and started crying because it hit me that I literally couldn't remember the last time I wanted to have sex with my (nowX) husband. Like, going back 10 years or more. How horrible for him I just always thought I wasn't a very sexual person, and I knew I had a lot of resentments toward my H in recent years that manifested in not being attracted to him, but I just would go along with it anyway. So actually feeling attracted to someone and enjoying a sexual relationship with them is pretty spectacular. I know that always fades somewhat with time, but we are starting out at a really great starting position! birdies , Is your former ap who you are with now ? how does he feel about the love you have for your ex, i think in another post you said your exh was still the person you care for most important the world? did/do you love them both ? this would seem much like the "mm". Link to post Share on other sites
norudder Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 No worries. I understand when someone says something that really makes sense for you. And you want an answer. No you're not the only. Like I said previously so many threads already discuss those topics. I'm guess I'm just in a place personally where I'm so sick of the back and forth is it love is it not and everyone gives their opinion about what it all means when on reality everyone will tell you what is true based on their experience. And in the end I find it doesn't really matter because we ourselves already know the truth. So again to look internally instead of externally. We just don't want to face it and need strangers to tell us what we already know. They can tell you and guess what all the external means. But no one can really tell you what is going on internally. That is my point. I think the word. "love" has been ruined for me. i don't know if ill want to use it in future relationships or not. not without a 500 word essay on what its usage means coming from my partner! one woman uses a cute phrase w special meaning to her and her husband instead. makes me wonder if her reasons are from a similar history 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Chica80 Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 I think the word. "love" has been ruined for me. i don't know if ill want to use it in future relationships or not. not without a 500 word essay on what its usage means coming from my partner! one woman uses a cute phrase w special meaning to her and her husband instead. makes me wonder if her reasons are from a similar history I think I understand what you mean. It seems like love means many different things. And the way I mean I love you doesn't mean the same when you love me? Is that what you were saying? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Birdies Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 birdies , Is your former ap who you are with now ? how does he feel about the love you have for your ex, i think in another post you said your exh was still the person you care for most important the world? did/do you love them both ? this would seem much like the "mm". Yes, we are together now. We've been super open and honest about our marriages and spouses since the A started about 2 years ago now (D-Day about a year ago). I think it helps that he was married also, and had also been with his wife for a long long time. I know that he still cares deeply about her even though their divorce was much more contentious and she's very much a "scorched earth" type. I think he's pretty secure in knowing that while I still love my xH very much and worry about him and miss him, I had lost the feeling of being in love with him and I had lost faith in our future together. So he's not threatened by that. He's not the type to have a "him or me" attitude, and we wouldn't be together if he were like that. And yes I do love him (AP) very much and I recognize that in many, many ways, we are much more well-suited for each other than my ex and I were, and than his ex and he were. We've known each other for a long time and even though yes we're both (one-time) cheaters obviously, we both feel pretty secure and fulfilled in this relationship. We're both working separately and together to keep assessing our respective roles in the breakdown of our respective marriages, and how to avoid being in that kind of situation and making those kinds of poor decisions in the future. But yes if push came to shove, at this point I think my ex is still the person I care most about in the world. We had been together since we were quite young and we have so much shared history and he's just a really, really wonderful person - although hard to be married to. But any kind of romantic love is long gone. This has all been very hard for him of course, but he's also really adamant about wanting me to be happy. And same for him - he's dating a woman now and I'm really glad about that. But ugh, I so wish I could undo the hurt I did to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Vivir Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I apologize, I haven't made it through all of the posts on this thread, but wanted to reply to the OP, Sunshinechica. You make a good point. I have never thought I was different from the MM. I would like to blame him, sure, but I have never been good at cognitive dissonance. I had a serious attraction to him, even knowing he was married. I chose to ignore and be wholly selfish, and I knew it. We did this together, but I have to answer for my own sins. And this is a BIG one. This has caused me to feel very ashamed. He fulfilled a dire need (emotional attention, "friendship")- or even more than one (sex on tap), and it wasn't until this had been done AND I got used to him, for the most part, that I was able to pull myself out of the thickest of affair fogs. Before this happened, I could only see *him* in the fog! I didn't think about his REAL life until it was time for him to go or he happened to mention her (which was not often). Interestingly, I could see through some of the things he said. He might have done some future faking, but I knew it would not be easy for him to leave his wife and home (he has only had both for two years), so I wasn't expecting him to do this. I felt funny fixing my mouth to even ask him this. I knew the affair would end and at least one of us would get hurt (me). As I was coming out of the fog, I talked with him about it repeatedly. He couldn't stand it. He hated for me to bring it up. He literally said, "It will never end." But I knew. To answer your questions, though... in my case, I was just like the MM you're talking about... I had a vested interest and did what I could to "protect my investment." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
freengreen Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 (edited) the radius of selfcentered circle differs, other than that... not much. I do not want be such a 'small' person ever again. Edited November 25, 2016 by freengreen Link to post Share on other sites
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