How are we different than MM?

[Chica80]

Negatives: Before A ever started I had this idea of who I thought MM was. This idealistic view. We started A 5 months before he was married. I thought if he picks me if he leaves everything to be with me. I must be worth it. If this amazing wonderful man (what I believed) loves me and thinks I'm worthy, than I must be worth something He didn't he got married. I knew he would I knew we would not be together. So this just reinforced the negative beliefs I thought about myself. The internal beliefs love doesn't last you will always be left abandoned. Lies and dishonesty

 

Positives: I left a marriage that played on the dynamics above. I've become a stronger more emotionally in tune. I'm becoming independent. I'm learning how to have a voice about my wants, needs. Amazing sex that is not just physically satisfying but is emotionally connected. How to be open raw and vulnerable. How to communicate better.

[Southern Sun]

Yes, different MMs with different issues I guess. Most are looking for adventure from their dull (but generally OK) marriages, but it seems like yours was genuinely trying (and succeeding) to get out of a bad marriage. I wish you both well!

 

Jenkins, I've seen you mention the adventure and fantasy and "love" component a couple of times for MM. I would tend to agree that for most, they enjoy this aspect...the adrenaline, the excitement, the sex, feeling like a million bucks. But how would you explain a MM who seems to move past that stage (almost on purpose) and then sort of methodically slot the relationship into a place in his life. Like, "let me go live my life over here, and then when I want some of THAT, I'll call you."

 

We started that way but then my MM literally changed the nature of the relationship on purpose, but then wanted to maintain certain components of it (I would call them "the benefits"). He said he didn't want to call us an "affair"...just that we would get together when we could. Ha.

 

He said he loved me. But by then those words felt a little empty. It felt false. We did have an actual relationship. But... I'm just curious about your take on that kind of relationship, considering I think you give most the benefit of the doubt.

 

(And if even Jenkins says I was just used for sex, I'll wave the white flag).

[aileD]

You were used for sex

 

Think about if your child someday came to you and said "this is what this man is telling me".

 

-I love you but it feels empty and false

-we don't have a title but we get together for "benefits" once in awhile

 

What would you tell your daughter this man's motives are?

 

I think all of it. Excitement, sex adrenline, love, lust etc are all just the same thing:

 

SELFISHNESS.

[imperfectangel]

You can't tell her she was used for sex! Only her mm can say for sure

[Lillyp32]

You can't tell her she was used for sex! Only her mm can say for sure

 

I was just about to post the same thing! I think this is the hard part for us. We never will really know what the MM actually felt for us. Only they know how they feel/felt about their OW. This is what I'm having a hard time with. Although I am getting better at not driving myself crazy with questions I'll never have the answers to. In the grand scheme of things I'm not sure it really matters. They are where they want to be no matter how they feel/felt about us or what there reasons for staying in the M are.

 

With that said, I'm not sure why it always has to be assumed that MM are all out to use OW for sex and that they are all somehow devoid of having feelings. Sure that can be the case sometimes but I don't think we can lump every MM into this category. I fell in love and meant every word I said to exMM. Why is it that just because he has a penis that he somehow had to be lying and just saying that he loved me to get laid? Just because he didn't get divorced and run away with me? I never wanted that from him and my feelings were very real. It's more than likely that his feelings were real too. Just because he's a man doesn't mean he doesn't feel.

 

My point is that every A and situation is different. We can't just label all MM pigs that are out to use woman for sex. Some MM fall in love and don't leave. Some MM fall in love and do leave. Some MM are just using OW for sex. Only they know how they really feel.

[Chica80]

To those of you who have answered the topic question. Thank you.

 

Please stay on topic. Respond to only topic question or others who respond to topic question.

 

The topic is what benefits do you get out of A. Not MM is it real is it not real. What does it all mean.....we constantly post these answers elsewhere. This is not a thread for that rather to look introspectivly thanks

Edited October 18, 2016 by Sunshinechica

[imperfectangel]

To those of you who have answered the topic question. Thank you.

 

Please stay on topic. Respond to only topic question or others who respond to topic question.

 

The topic is what benefits do you get out of A. Not MM is it real is it not real. What does it all mean.....we constantly post these answers elsewhere. This is not a thread for that rather to look introspectivly thanks

 

I don't think anyone is purposefully going o/t rather conversations just naturally progress.

 

Benefits for me were; confidence/ego boost, great sex, a man that treated me like a princess when we saw each other.

 

I learned how passionate and intense sex could be. I learned what real love making was as corny as that sounds.

 

Everything that mm gave me I am looking for in a new partner

[Lillyp32]

I don't think anyone is purposefully going o/t rather conversations just naturally progress.

 

Benefits for me were; confidence/ego boost, great sex, a man that treated me like a princess when we saw each other.

 

I learned how passionate and intense sex could be. I learned what real love making was as corny as that sounds.

 

Everything that mm gave me I am looking for in a new partner

 

I feel the same IA! Word for word.

 

I'm sorry about going off topic Sunshinechica. That wasn't my intent

[jenkins95]

Jenkins, I've seen you mention the adventure and fantasy and "love" component a couple of times for MM. I would tend to agree that for most, they enjoy this aspect...the adrenaline, the excitement, the sex, feeling like a million bucks. But how would you explain a MM who seems to move past that stage (almost on purpose) and then sort of methodically slot the relationship into a place in his life. Like, "let me go live my life over here, and then when I want some of THAT, I'll call you."

 

We started that way but then my MM literally changed the nature of the relationship on purpose, but then wanted to maintain certain components of it (I would call them "the benefits"). He said he didn't want to call us an "affair"...just that we would get together when we could. Ha.

 

He said he loved me. But by then those words felt a little empty. It felt false. We did have an actual relationship. But... I'm just curious about your take on that kind of relationship, considering I think you give most the benefit of the doubt.

 

(And if even Jenkins says I was just used for sex, I'll wave the white flag).

 

Hi (((Southern Sun)))

 

You were just used for sex.

 

Sorry...... Couldn't resist! I don't really think that!

 

I think your situation illustrates how good at compartmentalising some MM can be. I think he wanted it all with you - love, thrills, excitement, adventure, connection, escapism....... Oh, and you can probably throw sex in there too

 

But, he didn't want to give up his marriage and probably realised that the A was becoming all-consuming and that when he was at home, he could think of nothing else. I think his strategy was therefore just an attempt of trying to control it and keep it in its box...... or compartment. That way, you could do whatever you both wanted in the A, but only at allotted times. He probably then tried to force himself not to obsess over it when he was home, but then give himself completely to it when you were together. I can kind of see the idea and I remember myself trying to think of ways to control things or scale them down when I felt my A getting out of control and starting to obsess both of us. I think even for a man, his strategy would be difficult long term - we may be able to compartmentalise better than women, but even we have hearts, and even we fall in love......even if we try not to. And for you as a woman, I imagine it must have been very difficult and frustrating.

 

Just my take. Does this make any sense? Does it seem reasonable/likely?

 

SS, I haven't read your whole story yet. Is it on the boards? Are you still with MM now? How long did things last the way you described? How are you now?

 

Good luck anyway, and thanks for addressing me directly - I have to take my ego strokes where I can these days! lol

 

Edit: Sorry sunshine, this is going off topic again. I will be good now! You know I'm a good boy

Edited October 18, 2016 by jenkins95

[Southern Sun]

Hi (((Southern Sun)))

 

You were just used for sex.

 

Sorry...... Couldn't resist! I don't really think that!

 

I think your situation illustrates how good at compartmentalising some MM can be. I think he wanted it all with you - love, thrills, excitement, adventure, connection, escapism....... Oh, and you can probably throw sex in there too

 

But, he didn't want to give up his marriage and probably realised that the A was becoming all-consuming and that when he was at home, he could think of nothing else. I think his strategy was therefore just an attempt of trying to control it and keep it in its box...... or compartment. That way, you could do whatever you both wanted in the A, but only at allotted times. He probably then tried to force himself not to obsess over it when he was home, but then give himself completely to it when you were together. I can kind of see the idea and I remember myself trying to think of ways to control things or scale them down when I felt my A getting out of control and starting to obsess both of us. I think even for a man, his strategy would be difficult long term - we may be able to compartmentalise better than women, but even we have hearts, and even we fall in love......even if we try not to. And for you as a woman, I imagine it must have been very difficult and frustrating.

 

Just my take. Does this make any sense? Does it seem reasonable/likely?

 

SS, I haven't read your whole story yet. Is it on the boards? Are you still with MM now? How long did things last the way you described? How are you now?

 

Good luck anyway, and thanks for addressing me directly - I have to take my ego strokes where I can these days! lol

 

First, I don't think this is veering from the original topic. It is about whether we are different than MM.

 

Thank you Jenkins. I think you are on track. I am no longer with my MM. I am married and am trying to reconcile after a couple of D Days. I instituted NC last by disappearing basically. Hate to say that but nothing else seemed to work. He has made recent attempts to get my attention however.

 

Our A was 2 and 1/2 years, on and off. It started with all the love and excitement that you speak of. We knew each other many years prior, so we had a long friendship. This wasn't random. There was a strong EA component. However, several months into it, after a D Day for him, he semi broke up with me but warned me he couldn't resist me physically. Thus began our ongoing relationship, but that was no longer defined as a real "affair." And that's exactly where he wanted to keep it.

 

I told him in tears many times that I did not want the A without the love, without the actual relationship. He would agree...he said he loved me...but then he wouldn't do anything about it. He continued to manage it down.

 

For me, the love was what made it okay. It is how I rationalized having the affair to begin with. For him, I think it made it worse. He seemed to feel more guilty about loving me than he would if it was just about sex.

 

There was definitely more to our A than sex...we had fun, we were professionally supportive of one another, I was emotionally supportive of him (though not vice versa). I think HE relied on ME for a lot.

 

Towards the end, when I mentioned needing to feel loved, he told me he couldn't be in love with me if he was never going to have me. I think he had just logically put this in its place - he wanted to keep it up, but in order to do that, he needed to be rational about it. For me...it just showed me how dirty it was...if that makes sense. I had grown more and more distant from my H through the process and did not feel I could maintain two Rs for much longer.

 

So I think we may have entered the A for similar reasons (although sex may have been more on his mind than mine). But ultimately, our goals changed. I needed to be loved. I wanted the emotional connection. I needed to feel it evolve. I wanted the intimacy, his vulnerability. He seemed to want the opposite. He definitely still wanted me, but on his terms. I just wonder if that's a normal progression. Or maybe there is no normal.

 

Ironically...he told me he loved me more than he had ever loved anyone.

 

We talk about MM and how they hurt and mislead us and were manipulative (mine was...and controlling). But I walked away from my relationship without a word. Sometimes I wonder if MM has ever had irritated or angry or hurt thoughts about me. But I think...he deserved me walking away! He did not show me love and care. He put me down and picked me up at will. I knew I needed out and my husband didn't deserve what I was doing to him. So I just walked.

 

I'm doing...okay.

[Chica80]

I understand the need to vent and process things. I've been there I am there sometimes.

I just get sick of another thing that's "about him". The whys and the back and forth. Is it love is it not is it sex is it more. Ugh....it can be so obsessive and not helpful to the process of healing.

 

Not trying to be hurtful or inconsiderate to people's. Pain. I just want a space that's not about understanding MM. The truth is who knows what's on his mind. Someone said we can't really know.

[Chica80]

I don't think anyone is purposefully going o/t rather conversations just naturally progress.

 

Benefits for me were; confidence/ego boost, great sex, a man that treated me like a princess when we saw each other.

 

I learned how passionate and intense sex could be. I learned what real love making was as corny as that sounds.

 

Everything that mm gave me I am looking for in a new partner

 

IA. Yup....been there

[jenkins95]

With that said, I'm not sure why it always has to be assumed that MM are all out to use OW for sex and that they are all somehow devoid of having feelings. Sure that can be the case sometimes but I don't think we can lump every MM into this category. I fell in love and meant every word I said to exMM. Why is it that just because he has a penis that he somehow had to be lying and just saying that he loved me to get laid? Just because he didn't get divorced and run away with me? I never wanted that from him and my feelings were very real. It's more than likely that his feelings were real too. Just because he's a man doesn't mean he doesn't feel.

 

Thanks for saying this L. I often voice this here and am usually met with extreme sceptism.

 

What you write is quite true, and I am living proof of it.

 

I can officially confirm that I have a penis AND feelings. They are not mutually exclusive, even if one tries to take over from time to time

Edited October 18, 2016 by jenkins95

[BluesPower]

jenkins95, it is not that no MM have feelings for their other women. It is just that most do not love them the way that the woman in the relationship loves him. For the most part, they lie like dogs and tell the other woman how they do love them, which for the most part is total crap.

 

Every woman that I was with fell in love with me at some level. MidnightBlue says that it is just the bonding through the sex, and maybe she is right.

 

I had feelings, I was not in love, but some of them were really great women and I really cared for them.

[DKT3]

First, I don't think this is veering from the original topic. It is about whether we are different than MM.

 

Thank you Jenkins. I think you are on track. I am no longer with my MM. I am married and am trying to reconcile after a couple of D Days. I instituted NC last by disappearing basically. Hate to say that but nothing else seemed to work. He has made recent attempts to get my attention however.

 

Our A was 2 and 1/2 years, on and off. It started with all the love and excitement that you speak of. We knew each other many years prior, so we had a long friendship. This wasn't random. There was a strong EA component. However, several months into it, after a D Day for him, he semi broke up with me but warned me he couldn't resist me physically. Thus began our ongoing relationship, but that was no longer defined as a real "affair." And that's exactly where he wanted to keep it.

 

I told him in tears many times that I did not want the A without the love, without the actual relationship. He would agree...he said he loved me...but then he wouldn't do anything about it. He continued to manage it down.

 

For me, the love was what made it okay. It is how I rationalized having the affair to begin with. For him, I think it made it worse. He seemed to feel more guilty about loving me than he would if it was just about sex.

 

There was definitely more to our A than sex...we had fun, we were professionally supportive of one another, I was emotionally supportive of him (though not vice versa). I think HE relied on ME for a lot.

 

Towards the end, when I mentioned needing to feel loved, he told me he couldn't be in love with me if he was never going to have me. I think he had just logically put this in its place - he wanted to keep it up, but in order to do that, he needed to be rational about it. For me...it just showed me how dirty it was...if that makes sense. I had grown more and more distant from my H through the process and did not feel I could maintain two Rs for much longer.

 

So I think we may have entered the A for similar reasons (although sex may have been more on his mind than mine). But ultimately, our goals changed. I needed to be loved. I wanted the emotional connection. I needed to feel it evolve. I wanted the intimacy, his vulnerability. He seemed to want the opposite. He definitely still wanted me, but on his terms. I just wonder if that's a normal progression. Or maybe there is no normal.

 

Ironically...he told me he loved me more than he had ever loved anyone.

 

We talk about MM and how they hurt and mislead us and were manipulative (mine was...and controlling). But I walked away from my relationship without a word. Sometimes I wonder if MM has ever had irritated or angry or hurt thoughts about me. But I think...he deserved me walking away! He did not show me love and care. He put me down and picked me up at will. I knew I needed out and my husband didn't deserve what I was doing to him. So I just walked.

 

I'm doing...okay.

 

Your account is a blueprint for affair among two married folks... engage with AP, idealizing romanticizing and blindly ignoring the obvious. Disengage from spouse, demonizing, putting down comparing where it's impossible to measure up. I recall you saying your husband is weak, but mm is strong.

 

Then in the end pushing for it to have meant more then it did, it's the only way MW can justify the whole thing, it had to be some great one in a lifetime love that forced you to compromise yourself, to allow yourself to be used as someone plaything while risking the entire history of your marriage, stealing an opportunity from your kids to grow up in a complete home for what? It's hard to accept. But not for most MM. This is where the major differences between MW and MM lay. MM can accept the end, they can accept that he may or may not have thought more of you then you did of him. He can simply resume his marriage because he never viewed you as a replacement but as an additional piece. He never withdrew from his wife to the point where leaving was a true option. The difference is MM just don't get as emotionally invested, like it or not it's most often the case.

[elaine567]

Another big difference I noticed was in the use of 'I love you'. I think it can mean different things to men and women. We both said it all the time and we meant it. But I think for her, when I started saying that, she took it to mean, perhaps even at a subconscious level, that I loved her exclusively and that I was implying that we would be together. To me, saying those words were a simple exclamation of joy with no hidden meaning or implication. I was effectively saying......' I'm so happy in this moment and you are the cause! I'm crazy about you. Let's just celebrate it!' I didn't realise what this was probably doing to her psychologically. Again, I didn't mean to deceive, I just wanted to express my happiness. Again - another example of male/female differences come to the fore in affairs!

 

jenkins95, it is not that no MM have feelings for their other women. It is just that most do not love them the way that the woman in the relationship loves him.

 

I had feelings, I was not in love, but some of them were really great women and I really cared for them.

 

I think both those posts emphasise the difference between the "love" of the OW and the "love" of a MM.

They are not the same.

Yes, men do have feelings and I believe some men are deeply in love with women, but those men are not usually also married and conducting affairs, and that is the difference I feel.

 

The examples above sound more like a "getting carried away in the moment" type of "love", than any deep and meaningful feelings for the OW.

I guess that is why there are so many heart broken OW on here and not many MM grieving for the loss of their OW.

[OneLov]

I'm about as anti-stereotypical as it gets. I loved my AP and losing her was by far the hardest thing I've had to grieve. Like, I LOVED loved her in all the ways an OW typically describes.

 

But I don't post my pain because I don't find the value in it. It was an affair and wrong. I dont need a stranger who is unfamiliar with my situation tell me something I don't already know (no offense). I know it was love but it was wrong. Why roll around in it?

 

I always point to the study about how men and women process pain. Women generally call on the support of others (like OW on LS). Men often retreat to their caves and want to be alone (like me). The question is all about perception. Just because I don't post about it, sure as hell doesn't mean I don't hurt.

 

For the record, this OM is not a caricature nor can you describe me in 140 characters or less. I'm a complicated being. I loved her. It still hurts. But I understand that's my punishment for my part. I'm still serving time.

[Lillyp32]

Women generally call on the support of others (like OW on LS). Men often retreat to their caves and want to be alone (like me).

 

Another thing I was coming back to post It's very true that men and woman handle pain differently.

[jenkins95]

Men often retreat to their caves and want to be alone (like me). The question is all about perception. Just because I don't post about it, sure as hell doesn't mean I don't hurt.

 

Yes, me too.

 

Women are far better communicators in general.

 

I think many OW think their MM didn't care because he acts all logical at the end of the A, walks away and goes quiet. It looks to all the world like he didn't care. I acted like this too. But I did care and I do hurt, and I regret that i appeared this way to my xOW.

 

He may have cared much more than you think. I'd be amazed if he didn't care at all as some OW think.

Edited October 18, 2016 by jenkins95

[Onlywhenitrains]

I'm about as anti-stereotypical as it gets. I loved my AP and losing her was by far the hardest thing I've had to grieve. Like, I LOVED loved her in all the ways an OW typically describes.

 

But I don't post my pain because I don't find the value in it. It was an affair and wrong. I dont need a stranger who is unfamiliar with my situation tell me something I don't already know (no offense). I know it was love but it was wrong. Why roll around in it?

 

I always point to the study about how men and women process pain. Women generally call on the support of others (like OW on LS). Men often retreat to their caves and want to be alone (like me). The question is all about perception. Just because I don't post about it, sure as hell doesn't mean I don't hurt.

 

For the record, this OM is not a caricature nor can you describe me in 140 characters or less. I'm a complicated being. I loved her. It still hurts. But I understand that's my punishment for my part. I'm still serving time.

 

THIS!

 

I stopped wondering some time ago if he really loved me, or if he feels the pain in any way similar in intensity as I do.

 

I chose to believe he deeply cared about me, and yes in his own way loved me. But, it doesn't matter. It was real, it was wrong, and it was impossible.

 

The rest is just differences in processing grief, sadness and loss.

[Babsinhealing]

I had many a heated discussion about the topic when I was a regular poster. At the beginning of my A we equally "used" each other. We both wanted some crazy sexual fun and he was the OM just as much as I was the OW. People just couldn't understand that lol. They assume because I'm the woman in the A- I'm the OW- he's a cake eater and I'm doomed. Granted - it is harder for woman to keep emotions out of it when it becomes a LTA - but regardless of what others say- ask some of the other MM on this site... they often fall just as hard, too- it's inevitable. But when you have two Married AP engaging in an LTA- I feel it's different than a MM future faking it with a single AP. Just my humble opinion.

[Chica80]

I had many a heated discussion about the topic when I was a regular poster. At the beginning of my A we equally "used" each other. We both wanted some crazy sexual fun and he was the OM just as much as I was the OW. People just couldn't understand that lol. They assume because I'm the woman in the A- I'm the OW- he's a cake eater and I'm doomed. Granted - it is harder for woman to keep emotions out of it when it becomes a LTA - but regardless of what others say- ask some of the other MM on this site... they often fall just as hard, too- it's inevitable. But when you have two Married AP engaging in an LTA- I feel it's different than a MM future faking it with a single AP. Just my humble opinion.

 

Yes this I agree with. this... A MM and single woman or vs versa is definitely a different dynamic than MM/MOW. You're both using eachother you're both getting needs met elsewhere. That is a "benefit"

[Chica80]

First, I don't think this is veering from the original topic. It is about whether we are different than MM.

 

 

Sorry the topic is How did you or are you benefitting from this A?

 

"How are we different" as in we complain they, MM, use us....but we use them too.

 

(I know I started the thread )

[malvern99]

I'm about as anti-stereotypical as it gets. I loved my AP and losing her was by far the hardest thing I've had to grieve. Like, I LOVED loved her in all the ways an OW typically describes.

 

Genuine question here. You say you loved your AP. So, why did you not go with her? I love my wife dearly, and I would slaughter everybody in the world if she asked me to. There is nothing or no one that could keep me away from her. At least that is the way I look at it. I could not live with myself knowing there was someone I loved out there who I wasn't or couldn't be with. So, if you loved her like you say, what stopped you from pursuing the dream?

[Southern Sun]

Sorry the topic is How did you or are you benefitting from this A?

 

"How are we different" as in we complain they, MM, use us....but we use them too.

 

(I know I started the thread )

 

Apologies. I think I may not have been the only one a bit confused by the title, as well as the content of your first post...considering the turn the thread has taken.

 

T/J unintended