izzybelle Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 actually futter, i meant that he could make YOUR H's life miserable or get him fired, not himself! do what you feel you need to do to clear your conscience. but there is a saying "don't shoot the messenger" and i'm guessing that phrase exists for a reason. if it was a close friend, i'd probably consider saying something, maybe... haven't been in that position so i don't know. and maybe i'm a little sensitive to this particular subject because once upon a time one, or more, of my coworkers took it upon themselves to tell my now exH that i was having an affair with someone in my office. it wasn't true, but i can tell you first hand it made my life at work pretty bad for a while, and it did nothing to help my already failing marriage. had those people chosen to mind their own business who knows what would have happened ultimately to my marriage. they were convinced that what they'd seen was "proof" they were sadly mistaken ... Link to post Share on other sites
Author FlutterBug Posted July 13, 2005 Author Share Posted July 13, 2005 Izzy: I knew exactly what you meant and what I replied was what I meant. My husband is a partner. Neither one of them can "fire" the other. There is undisputable "proof". Loads of it. Link to post Share on other sites
Leah Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 haven't been in that position so i don't know. and maybe i'm a little sensitive to this particular subject because once upon a time one, or more, of my coworkers took it upon themselves to tell my now exH that i was having an affair with someone in my office. it wasn't true, Izzy - what could this experience possibly have to do with the situation at hand and how can you possibly compare your situation to the situation of this man's wife. Your coworkers lied - these coworkers have witnessed and they're telling the truth. Like trying to compare apples and carrots..... I don't think so. How anyone could have a moral issue with telling one who needs to know is well beyond me. Flutter - all that matters at this point is that you know the truth of the matter so I hope you've moved on as quickly as possible to let her know. Maybe you've already sent the card and if you have, I think a letter would be nice as well.... someone brought this up yesterday. I'm not sure how many people are aware of this, AIDS being a problem among homosexuals when it began to spread here in the western hemisphere 30 years ago. Aids is running rampant in the HETEROSEXUAL population first in Africa and now in India and I'm willing to bet that's a trend that will follow now to the western hemisphere. I know I would NEVER consider remaining married to an unfaithful partner for that reason, alone. Please let her know ASAP. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 leah, well, my bad ... if you re-read what i said, i said that perhaps i was a little sensitive to this whole thing because of what i went through .... which i know is impacting my feelings on all of this, merely trying to give a bit of perspective to where i'm coming from. i don't think i said that the situs were similar..... and if i implied that, it wasn't my intent. didn't know you were directly involved enough to know the truth about this whole situ. chances are the guy is having an affair, chances are his wife has a "right" to know, chances are there are "better" ways to break that news to someone than sending a forged card. i guess in a situation where there are so many lies involved, if one's going to break the truth to someone, they should do it in an honest way. Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Honey Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 I believe that since the wife has previously dealt with an affair of his, she won't go off the deep end by having a terrible accident or committing suicide. At least, I would hope that she is already aware of her own strength to get through something like this. Like others, I am having problems with the fake card as well as the way to tell her. Since the OP's hubby and the cheater are partners, isn't there some way to recognize the hand writing? There are NO notes that the OP has written that the cheater could see a similarity? I, too, can see the cheater lying his way through a fake card or intercepting it in the mail. If he COULD recognize the hand writing, he COULD make life miserable for the OP's hubby. Okay, they work from their homes, but if the cheater is lying to his wife, what is to stop him from lying to his business partner (the OP's hubby) or changing numbers/orders, etc. on the OP's hubby's side of the business? Also, if there was ever a way that the wife found out who sent the card, how would it be explained? "Oh, the card was a fake, but what I said in it was the truth." Kind of an oxymoron idea, if you ask me. What is to keep the wife from thinking that OP wrote the card and is having an affair with HER husband? Someone mentioned Hillary Clinton, who is an excellent example of staying in spite of the obvious. In fact, Hillary was told, not by her husband or a distant friend, but by the media . . . and she STILL stayed. I'm not saying that the wife we are talking about would stay. I guess what I'm saying is that if she is as popular/talented/high-profile as the OP says she is, I believe that she already knows what is going on. How many times of not being able to contact a husband does it take before a wife starts to ask questions and put two and two together? If this guy has as many women as portrayed, he must be very hard to get ahold of on the phone . . . unless he's one of those folks who answers their cell even when doing it . . . It seems to me that this woman probably already has close friends and I would think that THEY would have had conversations that at least eluded to the subject. I think it's a difficult situation. I don't see any "winners." I would want to know. I'm just uneasy about the card idea. In all honesty, when I read Izzy's post, I read it as her pointing out a situation when what appeared to be happening was miscontrued and caused more damage than good. I can see that she is pointing out that a person has to be absolutely certain that what something appears to be really IS as it appears, not an "optical illusion." If this wife stays with her husband, how will the OP KNOW that she received the card and is aware of her husband's activities? Is someone then going to call/write the wife and say, "Did you get my card?" Edited to add: Where is the money trail from the cheater? How is he paying for these women? Is he using company funds or is he using his own money? If he is using his own money, it sure seems funny that he wouldn't have to account for it with his wife . . . Link to post Share on other sites
Leah Posted July 13, 2005 Share Posted July 13, 2005 chances are the guy is having an affair, chances are his wife has a "right" to know, chances are there are "better" ways to break that news to someone than sending a forged card. i guess in a situation where there are so many lies involved, if one's going to break the truth to someone, they should do it in an honest way. Hmmm ... well Izzy let me put it to you this way. I read a post and facts were presented to me. That being the case, I have to use the facts provided from which to evaluate ... and not begin to extrapilate from them... in other words, I'm presented a scenario from which to make a decision and from that scenario I form conclusions. In the scenario that was presented, there were no "chances" indicated but rather, clear and concise charges of this man discussing his affairs after which he is seen with the women...by a multitude of associates. I dont think I'd refer to that as "possibility" or "chance". According to the information given to us THIS IS WHAT THE MAN IS DOING As for the forged card, well, that happens to be a decision made by Flutterby and her husband. That is their decision and so we abide by that. We have also suggested a letter but that's a decision left to FlutterBug and her husband ... it is their concern, not ours ... ours is to consider the facts and provide relavant opinions... Im sure they'll make the appropriate decisions. didn't know you were directly involved enough to know the truth about this whole I didnt know that you were either but then, like I said, I go by facts presented, it's not our job to start altering the facts, but rather to offer solutions to the problem. Ands as for you, LilHoney, well... way too much postulation. There is no way to know about the woman's social life, etc. You dont know, and will never know. In summation, the object here is to work with facts provided and then come to a conclusion based on the information given to you. No more, no less. Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 leah, valid points, i suppose, except i see it all as information, not facts ... it's what she's telling us, i have no idea whether those "facts" are true or not. it is one side and one side only of a tale. and you used those "facts" and came to a conclusion, i'm not entirely sure any of us are saying that we know 100% for sure that he's not cheating. and yes, it does appear that way, and the reason i'm using words like "chances" and "appears" is because we ONLY know one side of this story. i'm perhaps, not quite so likely to quickly convict someone after only hearing part of the story. there are at least two other sides that we're not aware of, or hearing. BUT whether or not he is cheating is not necessarily the case, or the point, it's the method to tell her that i think has some of us a little puzzled and a bit concerned. but you know what? even if all of us disagreed, it's what she and her husband have decided and i hope for their sake, it doesn't come back to bite them in the butt as these things have a habit of doing. Link to post Share on other sites
Leah Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 except i see it all as information, not facts You know ... this is only a forum and unfortunately, none of us are here to hire PI's and investigate the information given to us to determine if they're fiction or fact. That being the case, I'll say it again, you have to accept what's given to you as "the facts", then respond . It doesnt' take a rocket scientist to figure it all out. (key word "accept" the info "as" facts ) Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by FlutterBug There is undisputable "proof". Loads of it. Why don't you just tell her (in an anonymous letter since you don't have the courage otherwise) that her husband has been seen by many, many witnesses (preferably give names) groping and sharing a room with certain women(preferably state in which hotel and city)? Or are you afraid that it won't sound as bad as the card? Why don't you give me her email address so I can write her and tell her the whole truth? I am a complete stranger. I can also tell her the truth about the card. She has a right to know the truth, right? Or hasn't she?!?! P.S. Make sure you don't make any grammar mistakes in the fake card. It's indisputable, not undisputable. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FlutterBug Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 RecordProducer - I think you need to purchase a dictionary and read it! "undisputable" adjective - Established beyond a doubt: certain, hard, inarguable, incontestable, incontrovertible, indubitable, irrefutable, positive, sure, unassailable, undeniable, unquestionable. See certain, true. Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 flutter, it's comments like these that make it pretty clear why you would be sending the card. Link to post Share on other sites
izzybelle Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 MEOW! so yeah, this is headed in that direction.... flutter, i guess there's just one thing that really puzzles me ... IF you have undisputable "proof". Loads of it. and if you're not concerned that he can do anything to your H as far as work goes, why don't you want her to know who's telling her? if you really do want her to know, and be able to take it seriously and know that someone is trying to help her by letting her know what her H is up to, why don't you want to tell her personally? i'm not trying to be mean or anything here, i'm just not sure i understand your desire for secrecy in all of this. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 ...Why don't you give me her email address so I can write her and tell her the whole truth? I am a complete stranger. I can also tell her the truth about the card. She has a right to know the truth, right? Or hasn't she?!?!... GREAT point, RP! And one that the OP may find uncomfortable (incomfortable??) to answer. But let me address a couple of the questions in this thread, some of them merely implied: 1) Wouldn't you want to know if your H was cheating? Not sure. But I am positive that an anonymous letter or filthy forged card would be one of the worst ways to find out. So no, I would completely reject those "opportunities" to be informed. 2) Is it ever acceptable to send anonymous letters? No. It's vile by definition. A decent person will ALWAYS sign their name to their words. If something must be said, then take ownership of it. If I got an anonymous letter accusing my husband of cheating, I'd throw it in the trash. It's as likely or more likely to be a cruel hoax, as a real report made out of loving concern for me. 3) Isn't it appropriate for me to get in between two marriage partners, neither of whom I know well or am close to, and let them know the rumors that are flying about them? No, unless somebody died and made you moral guardian of your state/province. You would not have to listen to these UNSUBSTANTIATED rumors if you didn't want to. When people start talking that way, just don't listen. Or are you perhaps the person who STARTS those conversations because you find them so juicily enjoyable? 4) Isn't it appropriate for me to gossip widely about the private matters of others, whom I barely know and certainly am not on any talking terms with? No, it's completely disgusting. If you must gossip about the supposed love/sex/cheating lives of others, I recommend Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aniston, and Angelina Jolie. That way nobody actually gets hurt. That's right, with what you're doing now you could be injustly hurting others with your gossip and tale-bearing. You're not close enough to actually know the truth. If it were somehow ESSENTIAL that the wife be informed, then the barely acceptable way to do it would be to write a letter, calmly stating any "facts" you feel you may have, and also stating how you have acquired those "facts" so the wife can judge whether this letter even deserves one minute of her attention. As RP suggests, the "full truth" of the matter, which the wife deserves if she hears anything, would require you to admit to all the forgery, gossiping and tale-bearing you have already committed. Don't use inflammatory terms like "slut", "can you believe this?", "he's making a fool of you", etc. And then sign the letter. If this is not possible for some reason, then I recommend keeping your mouth shut, and quit the gossiping as well. I'm sure there are opportunities in your area to help others the "clean handed" way: you know, bringing meals to seniors in their homes, spending time with underprivileged children, tidying up the public spaces. And you won't have to do anything that lowers you to help others in this way. Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Maybe these many, many witnesses don't really exist and the indisputable loads of proofs are just your wishful thinking. But let's assume you're right. This guy is pretty popular, which means there is something interesting about him; he is either handsome or charming or seductive or all of it... Maybe you desire him. Maybe you wonder why he never hit on you. I see that you take this very personally. I am pretty sure your father cheated on your mother and that's the only reason why I could understand your eternal anger towards cheaters and calling his women sluts. However sending the card is very, very mean. I am sure you would be ashamed to tell everyone what you're up to. And your devilish plan requires so much work. You bought the card, now you will send it to someone in Orlando to send it to their city. It takes a lot of wisdom to make yourself and others happy, but so much stupidity to make them unhappy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FlutterBug Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 By the way, nothing you said made sense. Blah, Blah, Blah.. Link to post Share on other sites
New_Wife Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Flutterbug, you started out this post appearing to be a benevolent caring woman who was merely concerned for the well-being of a wronged woman you empathized with. When you didn't recieve sterling accolades for your choices - you then changed your tune and started insulting the folk who were kind enough to provide constructive input to you. What precisely are you trying to accomplish here? RP brings up valid questions. You seem to have an agenda above and beyond belevolence, and I suggest that you take on a better cause with your energies. Perhaps volunteer at a soup kitchen or a clothing drive. Because the card and the sniping are leading me to believe your motives are slightly less than honorable - and of the soap-opera-drama variety. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FlutterBug Posted July 14, 2005 Author Share Posted July 14, 2005 I have grown weary of her nonsense. That's all. You are entitled to your opinions and may think/assume whatever you want to. I was fully aware that I would get differing thoughts and suggestions when I brought the situation to this forum. Intelligent ones. Her "input" was not constructive. Thank you for your views. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I guess I don't get it...why not just send the anonymous letter with all the 'proof'? Or contact her directly and up front, so that she's got no reasons to doubt the validity of what she's being told? What is your real motivation for doing this? To let the wife know what's going on, so that she is aware of the situation and can take appropriate actions to protect herself? To get revenge on her cheating husband for some reason? (It seriously sounds like the latter, which makes me REALLY wonder what may have gone on here...but if I'm mistaken, I apologize) Again, WHY do you feel the need to do this? All of the concern here has been that your method does not seem to match your 'apparent' motives...if it's out of concern for the wife, then the card in no way will help the situation. It doesn't do anything but make the situation more cloudy...which is why you had so many posters advise against it. Now...if you're just trying to get him in trouble, it matches perfectly. So what's the REAL story here? Link to post Share on other sites
millefiori Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 I may have missed some points, but I sincerely do not understand why the original poster got bashed so harshly. I also do not think that it was her who started the fights here as some posters insinuated. Link to post Share on other sites
PatientOne Posted July 14, 2005 Share Posted July 14, 2005 Originally posted by millefiori I may have missed some points, but I sincerely do not understand why the original poster got bashed so harshly. I also do not think that it was her who started the fights here as some posters insinuated. I have to agree with millefiori here. It looks to me like some of RP posts irritated Flutterbug. Flutterbug, though I think just staying out of the whole situation is best, if you do decide to inform the wife, do it in a better way than the card. Maybe the anonymous note would be best. Give all of what you know- names, dates, places, etc. If you do go through with this, try to put yourself in this woman's shoes and put it to her in a way you would need to hear this news. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Owl I guess I don't get it...why not just send the anonymous letter with all the 'proof'? Don't you get it? There is no proof so she is making up one. The card she bought, wrote, and will send will be the proof. She will use a false proof as a proof. It's actually illegal and she probably might get sued for that criminal act. Originally posted by Owl What is your real motivation for doing this? Now...if you're just trying to get him in trouble, it matches perfectly. So what's the REAL story here? Flutter is too sensitive to these questions so please don't raise her blood pressure by asking her anything. Link to post Share on other sites
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