I want the impossible

[wmacbride]

I'm not even sure where to put this post. I'm a MM who just ended a short emotional affair. It started by accident, really, and when I first felt that tug, I probably should have made myself scarce, but I didn't. Things progressed from there, I LOVE YOUs were spoken, but when it was all said and done, I couldn't go from the heart to the physical. It took a little while, but we broke off contact. We didn't want any of the problems that you can read about on this website.

 

Pat on the back, I did the right thing. I felt like I was falling in love, but I now realize I'm not really in love, so compared to what I've been through before in my life, this isn't even close to being hard. But compared to where I was just a few weeks ago, this is so difficult. I miss her. I miss talking to her and being near her. I want to smell her, to hear her voice. I want to make her smile. It's curious, I don't feel like much is different at home. It's not like I'm desperate to get away from my life, if I'm honest, I just wanted to have my cake and eat it too. I realized that in the long term, nobody would have been happy with that. This was a disaster in the making.

 

In a way, I feel like this is "rich people problems", but there is a uniquely bad feeling when two people who want to be together cannot do so, for whatever reason. I don't even know the word, but this is a difficult temptation to resist and it it makes me feel bad, almost like something good is being wasted. What I want is to feel differently, and I want it now.

 

I know what I'm supposed to do. I need to take a little time to let myself feel some loss. I need to start feeling grateful for what I've kept. I need to get busy, reconnect on some level with the wife. I need to change my mindset, to stop wondering about the "might have beens". I'll probably never know how it would turn out, and I just have to get used to it. I need to remind myself that most relationships end in failure, for cause, and in that way, this is probably one of them.

 

But my heart tells me today that love is the journey, not the destination. You win the lottery while you play, not when your number matches at the end. I feel so melancholy today.

 

the proper analogy should be you play the lottery,you spend all your money and at the end, except for a few free tickets and maybe ten bucks, you have nothing.

 

I'm sorry for your wife. you are so dismissive of her,and you have no idea what you have done to her. Absolutely none.

[wmacbride]

funny you should say that

 

First, we are already NC, not the obstinate, nasty kind, but more like the "I hate to do it, but this is probably best for now" kind. Reluctant but firm?

 

Second, in a past life, my way of coping would have been to collect a bunch of notches on my bedpost, the more the merrier. F*ck the pain away.

 

Obviously, I can't do that, so yes, I need to find the married equivalent, which involves less sex, more things to do. I don't know if dates (the kind you go on when you're single) would be as helpful as maybe finding something productive to do together..To share a goal and accomplish it, and to have visible reminders we can both enjoy in our lives. Whether that's painting a room or rearranging the furniture or whatever. I think that appeals to me more, because that's all about teamwork, partnership, etc. Dating is about discovery and I don't think that's what we need. We need me to feel like "I'm in this with you" is what we need, and nothing gets the communication going like having to work together, especially if we can have some fun doing it. On a date or a vacation, I'm afraid that in my present mental state, the conversation might stagnate because I've got something on my mind that I can't really talk about with her.

 

Does that make any sense?

 

If this is what works for you, who is anyone else to judge?

One thing I will say is that I don't think you know your wife nearly as well as you think. This is why date nights can be so nice. They let you reconnect and get back to a simpler time in your lives.

[wmacbride]

I hear you, I really do. Clearly I enjoyed that je ne se qua, the excitement, the butterflies, whatever you want to call that initial chemistry that two people feel. I can't deny that.

 

I also won't deny that it isn't that way any more with my wife.

 

That's why I delayed a little before I abandoned this. It was nice. It was great to feel that way again. I wasn't sure I had it in me, frankly. But you know what? I know it doesn't last. It never lasts.

 

I think what's more important that being IN LOVE is actual love. It's what's left over when that giddy feeling goes away. Did/do I love OW? Absolutely not. Am I in love with her? Maybe a little bit at some moments, but it is more subdued than that. Either way, I've arrested its progress. I'm not pining for OW, it's just uncomfortable for now, and I want this part to be over with ASAP. Do I need those butterflies with my wife to make this go away? No. First things first.

 

What's more, those feelings, at least for me, they are based on illusion. My wife is all too real to me. OW is an illusion to me right now. I haven't seen her grunting out a #2 or throwing up. Her house and car are neat and tidy. Or are they? I have no idea how she fights or why. I see the best parts, and I can take a guess as to the not-so-great parts, but I haven't seen them. But I know they are there. Do I really want to go through it all again, just to find out that like most women I've ever dated, she's fundamentally incompatible? No. Been there, done that, got lucky once. I'm here to stay.

 

So let's not make this more than it is, or perhaps, don't mistake where I am on the road from there to here. I'm just venting a little, expressing my grief, although even that's a pretty strong word for what I'm actually feeling. That's what this is really all about, I'm trying to feel this, rather than bottle it up, for the express purpose of making it go away.

 

I'll get there.

 

To address the other stuff. I'm pretty attentive. I'll do stuff like get my wife tea while she watches TV, or feed her a bite from my plate or give her a little kiss just to know I'm there. I wanted to do that kind of thing for OW, so whenever I felt that urge, my wife got whatever it was. You know, the little things that make you feel appreciated. I know how that stuff works, but it's no basis for a marriage. In my experience, these are simply signals that what you have is genuine. It won't sustain a marriage that's failing otherwise, but it will strengthen a marriage that is otherwise good. I'm not starting from ground zero.

 

Think of it this way: I just had a lot of love to give. I wasn't shifting it from one place to another. Obviously, that's not quite right, but I can assure you that my wife gets the little strokes you seem to think she's missing. If anything, I'm on the short end of that, but I get them too. I'm not dissatisfied. If I was, I might be writing about something else entirely, like my escape.

 

No, this was a simple case of two people who, but for my marriage, met at the right place and the right time; said marriage made it the wrong place and the wrong time. I think attraction to other people is just going to happen sometimes. It did for me, but I can't pursue it.

 

It's that simple.

 

You really have no idea what you have done, do you?

Reverse the roles.How would you feel if your wife said ,word for word, what you are saying. Would you just blow it off or would it hurt terribly?

 

This is the thing a lot of ws don't understand at first. Most get it eventually, but it can take some time to understand.

[Noirek]

I know a couple close to me where the husband crossed the line like you. He didn't feel he actually cheated because he stopped before sex. He knew it was wrong. He knew it was damaging to the relationship to his wife but he could never own cheating because it wasn't physical. And his wife discovered it after he had done the right thing and ended contact "for now" with the OW. He believed she was overreacting and honestly I think he expected her to be proud of him for stopping it. But she was hurt and angry that he had started it in the first place.

 

The I love yous.

 

The if I had met you first

 

The if things were different

 

The I have never felt this way before

 

Ect

 

It broke her. And to her his not seeing how truly damaging that was to their marriage and that he had been betraying her that whole time was ultimately what ended their marriage. He didn't own what he did.

 

You can't really get it until you have the ability to truly place yourself in your wife's shoes and cut the bull crap. You broke your vows to her. It doesn't matter that it snuck up on you. You still crossed a line. Your not a child that blurts out "I love you" with no self control. You are a grown man. A smart one. Sex is just sex. And as a smart man you know that. More primitive minds give it bigger meaning. But the unbroken trust, the sharing hearts, the promises to be with each other and only each other, and the understanding that you got each others back, that is what makes a marriage. Sex is just one part of it. A very minor part when you think of couples together for 50 years and kids and grandkids. People have sex all the time outside of marriage with lots and lots of people. And sometimes when married they even have open marriages and do so. But what still is supposed to stand is the comittment to each other to be honest and have each others back. And you did not have hers.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't have stopped before it went physical. Everyone, everywhere, should stop their affairs whatever stage they are at. The longer they go, the more lies heaped on. But don't think it means you didn't cheat. You broke your vows. I'm not eveb hardcore on EAs. I do believe people can become too close to someone and stop a friendship before it crosses a line and not be a cheater. However, you know you didn't do that. You just stopped before physical.

 

But to clarify, did you ever touch her?

Edited October 17, 2016 by Noirek

[heartwhole]

Think of it this way: I just had a lot of love to give. I wasn't shifting it from one place to another. Obviously, that's not quite right, but I can assure you that my wife gets the little strokes you seem to think she's missing. If anything, I'm on the short end of that, but I get them too. I'm not dissatisfied. If I was, I might be writing about something else entirely, like my escape.

 

The general gist of the responses you're getting here is that you're missing the self-work that needs to be done. I have no doubt that you'll be able to get over the OW emotionally too. A little journaling, a little time, and you should be good to go.

 

But you haven't begun to understand the betrayal you've committed nor to own your role in it. It's very common for cheaters to believe that they're not getting enough at home when in fact they are not giving enough. It's nonsensical to suggest that you are giving your wife as much love and attention as you would if you weren't so hung up on another woman that you joined a website to process it. There is an opportunity cost to anything that we give our time and attention to -- they are of finite quantity and we therefore have less time and attention to devote elsewhere. Now as a mother I can understand the concept that love is not divided when we love more than one person, but multiplied, but our time and mental energy are not. And of course, as I have tried to explain, by watering the grass with the OW you have missed opportunities for further closeness with your wife. Furthermore, you have introduced deceit to the extent that you are trying to avoid spending time with your wife so that you don't have to be honest. So telling yourself that you are being a 100% giving husband is just lying to yourself.

[aileD]

The general gist of the responses you're getting here is that you're missing the self-work that needs to be done. I have no doubt that you'll be able to get over the OW emotionally too. A little journaling, a little time, and you should be good to go.

 

But you haven't begun to understand the betrayal you've committed nor to own your role in it. It's very common for cheaters to believe that they're not getting enough at home when in fact they are not giving enough. It's nonsensical to suggest that you are giving your wife as much love and attention as you would if you weren't so hung up on another woman that you joined a website to process it. There is an opportunity cost to anything that we give our time and attention to -- they are of finite quantity and we therefore have less time and attention to devote elsewhere. Now as a mother I can understand the concept that love is not divided when we love more than one person, but multiplied, but our time and mental energy are not. And of course, as I have tried to explain, by watering the grass with the OW you have missed opportunities for further closeness with your wife. Furthermore, you have introduced deceit to the extent that you are trying to avoid spending time with your wife so that you don't have to be honest. So telling yourself that you are being a 100% giving husband is just lying to yourself.

 

 

 

This this this this this this this

[heartwhole]

To put it another way, you've sought help for the pain you're feeling from losing the OW. We're trying to show you that affair is not just a random thing that happened to you but something that you chose due to faulty empathy, priorities, coping skills, boundaries, etc. You can treat the symptom but the underlying cause will come back to bite you eventually.

[beautiful_day]

What you actually need is for chump lady to put your posts here through the UBT.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'll probably never know how it would turn out, and I just have to get used to it.

 

But my heart tells me today that love is the journey, not the destination. You win the lottery while you play, not when your number matches at the end.

 

First, we are already NC, not the obstinate, nasty kind, but more like the "I hate to do it, but this is probably best for now" kind.

 

you tell yourself that enjoying it just a little more won't do any harm, which it doesn't, really, except for making it harder to pull away.

 

Think of it this way: I just had a lot of love to give. I wasn't shifting it from one place to another.

 

You don't get it. Stick around for a while, read some of the other threads here...

 

Mr. Lucky

[waterwoman]

Stop congratulating yourself, stop minimising, stop wallowing in your 'grief' and think about what you have actually done to your marriage. You made a series of decisions to betray your wife, eyes wide open, no-one forcing your hand. But you appear to want plaudits that you stepped back from making the decision to have sex. Well congrats! Break out the champagne .

 

The damage you have done is where you should concentrate your time, energy and attention. Best way to do that is to tell your wife and believe me you will find it much easier.

[Cloudcuckoo]

I sincerely hope you really do 'get it' soon.

 

Your wife will 'get it' the longer you continue to cheat her out of an honest relationship and any decisions regarding your marriage may well be taken out of your hands.

 

Actions have consequences don't they?

 

You write with intelligent rationale, but reading leaves me with the feeling that 'rationale' only applies to your own perspectives.

 

Try role reversal, as some have suggested, to immerse yourself in a mere fraction of what your wife would think and feel if she knew the entirety of your treachery. THERE, if you are capable of it, is where you might begin to 'get it'.

 

If you really feel you're unable to strip yourself down to the point where you understand what it is that makes you believe you were entitled to act on your attractions to this woman (and attraction to the opposite sex is perfectly normal, acceptable human behaviour...it's what we DO with that attraction that is so important), and set aside the excuses that you both just sort of, kind of, fell in love (that's horse manure frankly), then have the good grace to free your wife from your lukewarm attempts at being honourable so that you may both find peace eventually, apart.

 

I would further suggest the help of a therapist to do that level of digging.

 

Wishing you and your wife better times, whether together or apart.

 

Cuckoo

[Midwestmissy]

When my teenagers found out - and trust me, they find out - they lost all respect for my wh. To have your son scream "you are an effing (kitty cat)! How could you do this to us? To mom?!?" and have absolutely no good answer is life changing. That boy has now left for college and the relationship is still fractured. Wh lives with that pain and loss everyday. For someone he used for masturbating for 5 months. You are so short sighted at what the consequences are and how they reverberate for years. My wh can't really discipline the kids without tip toeing carefully because they know he's a liar and a cheat who spent time with another woman over them, was abusive to their mother (emotionally), and changed their lives and mine without our consent or knowledge. He was willing to Lise time with us for her by knowing that cheating breaks up families. He is nobody's hero or mentor or idol and he was.

 

So if entitlement is that important to you and you don't give a rat's rear about how others are affected by your actions, then carry on. But like I've said, don't be shocked when you're old and an invalid and the only person willing to take care of you is a very chapped handed poorly paid aide who did time in the pen and doesn't really care at all about your well being. Not a vibrant hot thing 30 yrs younger than you who you unfortunately put on your life insurance. The fun ends in an ugly lonely way. But hey, have at it. You will reap what you sow.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Midwestmissy
Spelling

[aileD]

When my teenagers found out - and trust me, they find out - they lost all respect for my wh. To have your son scream "you are an effing (kitty cat)! How could you do this to us? To mom?!?" and have absolutely no good answer is life changing. That boy has now left for college and the relationship is still fractured. Wh lives with that pain and loss everyday. For someone he used for masturbating for 5 months. You are so short sighted at what the consequences are and how they reverberate for years. My wh can't really discipline the kids without tip toeing carefully because they know he's a liar and a cheat who spent time with another woman over them, was abusive to their mother (emotionally), and changed their lives and mine without our consent or knowledge. He was willing to Lise time with us for her by knowing that cheating breaks up families. He is nobody's hero or mentor or idol and he was.

 

So if entitlement is that important to you and you don't give a rat's rear about how others are affected by your actions, then carry on. But like I've said, don't be shocked when you're old and an invalid and the only person willing to take care of you is a very chapped handed poorly paid aide who did time in the pen and doesn't really care at all about your well being. Not a vibrant hot thing 30 yrs younger than you who you unfortunately put on your life insurance. The fun ends in an ugly lonely way. But hey, have at it. You will reap what you sow.

 

This. Me and h are reconciling but that doesn't mean our kids just automatically forgive him.

 

He has no relationship with our 16 year old daughter.she won't speak to him. He texts her every day and tries to talk and she just ignores. Our 13 year old son calls him out on every hippocrite thing he does and doesn't respect his fatherly advice anymore...

 

H has lost his standing in the family as someone to be looked up to and respected.

 

We are committed to counseling and healing our family. But it's a process. Your actions reverberate thoughought everyone you are close to. Think about that.

[heartwhole]

The OP did not mention children and I imagine the house-projects and date-avoiding would not be foremost on his mind if he and his wife were focused on raising children.

 

Midwestmissy, your experience of your husband having a PA and alienating and angering his children is only minimally relatable to a man who had the foresight to end his EA before it became a PA. He needs help with developing empathy and identifying why he thought (and clearly still thinks) it was OK to cross those lines and that he is not at all guilty of taking away from his marriage or at risk of crossing the line again the future. But ranting about the fall-out from a different type of affair is unlikely to help him gain that insight IMO.

[aileD]

Yeah but he need to see what his life could be like if he lets it go further.

[Bittersweetie]

The general gist of the responses you're getting here is that you're missing the self-work that needs to be done. I have no doubt that you'll be able to get over the OW emotionally too. A little journaling, a little time, and you should be good to go.

 

But you haven't begun to understand the betrayal you've committed nor to own your role in it. It's very common for cheaters to believe that they're not getting enough at home when in fact they are not giving enough. It's nonsensical to suggest that you are giving your wife as much love and attention as you would if you weren't so hung up on another woman that you joined a website to process it. There is an opportunity cost to anything that we give our time and attention to -- they are of finite quantity and we therefore have less time and attention to devote elsewhere. Now as a mother I can understand the concept that love is not divided when we love more than one person, but multiplied, but our time and mental energy are not. And of course, as I have tried to explain, by watering the grass with the OW you have missed opportunities for further closeness with your wife. Furthermore, you have introduced deceit to the extent that you are trying to avoid spending time with your wife so that you don't have to be honest. So telling yourself that you are being a 100% giving husband is just lying to yourself.

 

To put it another way, you've sought help for the pain you're feeling from losing the OW. We're trying to show you that affair is not just a random thing that happened to you but something that you chose due to faulty empathy, priorities, coping skills, boundaries, etc. You can treat the symptom but the underlying cause will come back to bite you eventually.

 

Heartwhole is spot on with these two posts. And I say this as a fWW. My A ended months before d-day, and believe me, my H didn't really care about the fact that it was already over. It was the actions and choices I did take that were hurtful to him.

 

It took a lot of work, fixing things that were unhealthy within me, before I became the authentic, healthy person I am today. And I am much, much happier than I ever was during the A.

[Midwestmissy]

I think when people start a business venture, its wise to look at risks, benefits potential problems, investors who may lose a lot, those affected if the company shuts down, etc. There are spreadsheets to lay it all out. Documents signed that legally bind and are in good faith. When people cheat the company, there's fall out. People feel betrayed by having believed in the crook or cheat. But the risks are there and it's part of prudent planning to look at all possible scenarios. Relationships are no different, and affairs require so much deceit and planning anyway. Closing ones eyes to risks and fallout is not sexy and titilating, it's bad judgment. I guess the op seems to have not shut the door - maybe just my perception. He seems really more attached to the ow than his wife.

[LargoLagg]

The OP did not mention children and I imagine the house-projects and date-avoiding would not be foremost on his mind if he and his wife were focused on raising children.

 

Midwestmissy, your experience of your husband having a PA and alienating and angering his children is only minimally relatable to a man who had the foresight to end his EA before it became a PA. ... But ranting about the fall-out from a different type of affair is unlikely to help him gain that insight IMO.

Boy, you said that so much nicer than I was about to say it. Our situations are not nearly equivalent. Midwestmissy can only wonder what her life would be like today if her husband had done what I did. She can only wish her husband made the choice that I made. He chose OW and ran with it. I didn't.

 

Yeah but he need to see what his life could be like if he lets it go further.

Actually, I don't. I've looked down that rabbit hole. I'm not having trouble with my decision, and OW is doing her part. She's not tempting me or contacting me, or making me second-guess anything. It isn't going further. That's not the road I'm on.

 

He needs help with developing empathy and identifying why he thought (and clearly still thinks) it was OK to cross those lines and that he is not at all guilty of taking away from his marriage or at risk of crossing the line again the future.

I'm having trouble identifying the lines I crossed. I don't control who I like, or who I feel a romantic attraction towards. It just happens for me, and I don't think I could tell you why. When OW and I spent time with each other, we had a lot of fun, the same way that you have fun when you're out in public with someone you're dating. If it were a movie, it would be rated G. The EA part of it was it felt like we were spending time together, that even though we didn't date, the time we spent in each other's company felt like a date. There was a connection, a sweetness, a desire for each other. It was a lot like being in love in 4th grade. If it had just been some woman that I didn't feel these things for, none you would have any problem had you witnessed the things we did.

 

I've asked myself if the roles were reversed, and my wife had gone through this, how would I feel? I think the honest answer is that before this happened to me, I'd feel hurt and I'd have trouble believing it wasn't more than it was. I'd feel like something was now different, that I'd lost something special between us.

 

As for betrayal, way back when, my first love dumped me for some other guy. She went to the trouble of breaking up with me before she started seeing him and in retrospect, while she probably cheated a little while she was figuring out that she liked him, I always had the impression she did what you're supposed to do. She ended it with me so she could be with him. I remember feeling betrayed by that, but I also remember that I felt unjust for feeling that way, because she did the right thing, she ended it. The betrayal was more about how she didn't love me forever like I thought she would. You know, that she'd taken away something that was mine. But in reality, she didn't take it away, it died. And it was never really mine. So, in that way, I think I might feel betrayed, but I think I'd also feel it was unjust to feel that way, if no physical wrong was actually committed and if she turned her back on feelings she was having. I'd have to give her credit for doing the right thing.

 

One might argue that I'd given away what belongs to her, my affection or my adoration, whatever you want to call it. If that's where you draw the line, then yeah, I guess so. But if you draw a timeline, at least for me, I began to see OW differently as time moved forward and so the way we interacted became a little different, a little more familiar, a little deeper. But I never gave the store away. If there's a metaphor, it's like a gave her some samples, as if I wanted to gain another customer, to make another sale. But then I stopped selling. I made it clear that the there was no more in inventory. So I flirted with the idea, I flirted with her, yes, but ultimately I decided no. I feel like I stepped right up to the line, but never crossed into betrayal. Just because somebody feels betrayed, doesn't mean they are. I'm living proof of that.

 

Now that I've gone through this myself? I think I'd be empathetic, I could see how it happened. I would give her credit, and I would not feel betrayed. I'd feel like she was tested, and chose loyalty. Maybe that's what is going on here. You guys cannot empathize with what it feels like to find that spark with someone while you're married because it hasn't happened to you. You haven't been tested like that yet. It's powerful, believe me. But it's also resistible, and commitment is a choice you make every day. Anybody who's been married for a while knows that there are days where marriage doesn't feel like it's the greatest thing. You don't bail then either, and it gets better once the trouble subsides. This really isn't all that different, it's just that the trouble involves someone else, rather than the way you fight, or whether you're a slob, or whatever the trouble is.

 

As for the future, I think I understand this better now. I've been around the block enough to know that most relationships end in failure, and that as perfect as they may seem, or as good as the p*ssy might be in the beginning, eventually, that attraction wanes, even with the most attractive of women, or even if they bang like porn stars. That's the stuff that the short term is built on. It doesn't last. The long term is something else entirely. For probably the first time in my life, I looked before I leapt. I must be paying better attention these days.

 

I'm sure we'll survive this little detour I took. I'm in no danger of backsliding. This is not a hard decision, it's just that the execution is unpleasant.

 

I am interested in knowing if I was searching for something or if I'd actually found something in her that I wanted/needed. If I can identify that, then I can find other ways to get it that don't involve infidelity. I think that would be helpful.

Edited October 18, 2016 by LargoLagg

[Grapesofwrath]

Largo: You are a very good writer, as I'm sure you know. Smooth, eloquent, warm.

 

Did you say "I love you" to the OW? To most women, this is a very big deal. You are minimizing when you say it was "flirting" and like a "4th grade" crush. If you told each other you love each other, that is a big deal. For you, perhaps sex is the line of demarcation for betrayal and pain. Do you know that to be true for your wife?

 

Golden rule: Treat others as you would like to be treated. Platinum rule: Treat others as THEY would like to be treated.

 

From you:"You guys cannot empathize with what it feels like to find that spark with someone while you're married because it hasn't happened to you. You haven't been tested like that yet. It's powerful, believe me. But it's also resistible, and commitment is a choice you make every day."

 

Be careful what you assume. Many people in this forum, including myself, have been married and tempted. I was married, and I engaged in a long-distance EA. It was wrong. I never told the OWI loved him--and I didn't love him--but it was still intense. At the time, I had plenty of justifications for it, just like you.

[LargoLagg]

Largo: You are a very good writer, as I'm sure you know. Smooth, eloquent, warm.

 

You're too kind. Thank you.

I'd like to mention to things, though:

 

Did you say "I love you" to the OW? To most women, this is a very big deal. You are minimizing when you say it was "flirting" and like a "4th grade" crush. If you told each other you love each other, that is a big deal. For you, perhaps sex is the line of demarcation for betrayal and pain. Do you know that to be true for your wife?

I did say that, as part of the conversation about how I couldn't do this. Not my exact words, but something along the lines of "I fell in love with you BUT..." The reason I said that was because I wanted her to know it. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to hear it back. Of course I did, but my intent was not the usual one, that this is a gateway to something more. It was to inform. I felt like I had to do it.

 

Sorry for all the edits. Let me answer your other question too, this is what I was trying to say. Would she like it? No. Would she feel betrayed? I don't know, probably on some level, I have to believe that. She'd be hurt, for sure. But I also know that her next question would be: "what are you going to do about it?" That was essentially the question I asked myself, and it didn't take any time to know the answer. And what I wrote about is how I answered that question.

 

From you:"You guys cannot empathize with what it feels like to find that spark with someone while you're married because it hasn't happened to you. You haven't been tested like that yet. It's powerful, believe me. But it's also resistible, and commitment is a choice you make every day."

 

Be careful what you assume. Many people in this forum, including myself, have been married and tempted. I was married, and I engaged in a long-distance EA. It was wrong. I never told the OWI loved him--and I didn't love him--but it was still intense. At the time, I had plenty of smooth justifications for it, just like you.

I did preface that with "Maybe that's what's going on here", allowing that this is not always true. But some of the responses strike me as coming from victims of full-blown betrayal, projecting what happened to them onto me as if the two things are equivalent. Maybe that's not true at all. Maybe I also heard from a bunch of reformed sinners, who are now self-appointed saints. Either way, I simply reject those interpretations, and it's not all black and white for me. Not everybody who gets drunk is an alcoholic. Not everybody who cheats a little cheats a lot. There are degrees of difference in our actions. I think I'm much closer to the harmless end of the spectrum than I am the harmful end. It could have been so much worse than it was. So that's how I see this.

 

That said, I'm working through the gray areas, questioning my own interpretation as well as the interpretations of others. I'm sincerely trying to understand this well, and maybe with some reflection, I'll come around. I'm not there yet.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Edited October 18, 2016 by LargoLagg

[heartwhole]

I am interested in knowing if I was searching for something or if I'd actually found something in her that I wanted/needed. If I can identify that, then I can find other ways to get it that don't involve infidelity. I think that would be helpful.

I think you should ask yourself not what you saw in the OW, but what she saw in you . . . what did you like about yourself as seen through her eyes? That will give you a clue as to what you were getting out of the relationship.

 

[]

Edited October 20, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
redacted off-topic content ~6

[LargoLagg]

I think you should ask yourself not what you saw in the OW, but what she saw in you . . . what did you like about yourself as seen through her eyes? That will give you a clue as to what you were getting out of the relationship.

 

[]

 

[] I can tell you this, whatever bad things I might have imagined could come from keeping my little thing going, it wasn't nearly as rough as some of the stories I've read. I wasn't thinking 2 - 5 years out, only immediate aftermath. But even that was enough to turn me around.

 

Reading and writing and responding has helped, and actually I felt better today. Interestingly, when I was writing Grapes back, hypothesizing about what my wife might think, I felt this twinge of admiration and gratefulness for who she is. I do feel that for her from time to time, but the day to day grind doesn't really afford me the opportunity to observe it enough, nor her the venue to demonstrate the many great things I know she is. Maybe finding a little more of that is a pathway for us.

 

And maybe if I think about her a little more, this whole episode will serve as a pointed reminder of what's important to me and maybe that line will get a little brighter for me, maybe it will move a little closer this way.

 

thanks again, for all your posts

Edited October 20, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
redacted off-topic content ~6

[Midwestmissy]

Then good has come out of you coming here for sure. It's cathartic to write things out and get completely neutral (because it's anonymous) feedback. Sorry I came out too hot - I'd be crushed if my wh had fallen in love. His was the traditional throw the ow under the bus and never look back affair, painful enough. I definitely get my yayas out by writing here, and it does help.

 

I did ask my wh who he was when he was with the mow, and it was who he had thought he'd be at this age. Wildly successful, rolling in money and power. Influential and rubbing elbows with international executives. He's not those things. Maybe not yet, maybe never. Nor was he when he was 19 and I fell madly in love. And because he wasn't where he wanted to be at 45, he decided that I was impossible to please and was never happy. He decided that HE knew what I needed, I didn't appreciate what he was giving me, and I was ungrateful. All if these decisions made without ever speaking to me. He was punishing me for something that wasn't happening. His unfulfilled dreams were my fault. I think it's pretty common. He could have lost so much had he not turned it around. I do think some people decide to proceed with APs just to dig in and prove it was a great idea.

 

Keep writing and see even more good qualities about your wife. You made her your life partner for a reason. The future is unwritten, so enjoy something with her today. Even if it's just holding her hand while the Indians sweep the Blue Jays.

[Grapesofwrath]

 

Keep writing and see even more good qualities about your wife. You made her your life partner for a reason. The future is unwritten, so enjoy something with her today. Even if it's just holding her hand while the Indians sweep the Blue Jays.

 

Or while the Cubbies take another from the Dodgers, if you prefer. (Personally, I like both.)

[Noirek]

 

I'm having trouble identifying the lines I crossed. I don't control who I like, or who I feel a romantic attraction towards. It just happens for me, and I don't think I could tell you why. When OW and I spent time with each other, we had a lot of fun, the same way that you have fun when you're out in public with someone you're dating. If it were a movie, it would be rated G. The EA part of it was it felt like we were spending time together, that even though we didn't date, the time we spent in each other's company felt like a date. There was a connection, a sweetness, a desire for each other. It was a lot like being in love in 4th grade. If it had just been some woman that I didn't feel these things for, none you would have any problem had you witnessed the things we did.

"Not just friends" by Dr. shirley Glass is a good place to start if your cluless or lack common sense in this department. No one can control attraction. But we can feed it or turn it off. We can run with it or run away from it. We can learn to identify it or be in denial about it. Attraction is primal. Chemistry happens and can be a very powerful things. Intoxicating. But we are adults and not weak willed ninnies as you obviously learned by not crossing your line. You just need to learn some new lines. And actually a lot of people on here would have a problem with any married man hanging out with a woman who is not his wife. I'm not super hard core about it myself because what would BI people do for friends? but I do know people who have good friends of the opposite gender who they spend lots of time around often end up in compromising situations.

 

I've asked myself if the roles were reversed, and my wife had gone through this, how would I feel? I think the honest answer is that before this happened to me, I'd feel hurt and I'd have trouble believing it wasn't more than it was. I'd feel like something was now different, that I'd lost something special between us.

You need to use the "before this happened" thinking going before to tap into your empathy. The now is your mind trying to rationalize your behaviour and lesson the severity of your actions. Keep you the good guy and give you a pat on the back. Your wife didn't do what you did so remember that. Think about it as her. Someone who didn't tell another guy she had fallen in love with him. Didn't write all that sweetness about this guy. The way you worded that is very telling on how your mind is still caught up in this affair.

 

So I flirted with the idea, I flirted with her, yes, but ultimately I decided no. I feel like I stepped right up to the line, but never crossed into betrayal. Just because somebody feels betrayed, doesn't mean they are. I'm living proof of that.

flirting is a line. flirting with the intention of buying is definitely a line. telling someone you fell in love with them. Something that did not need to be done because she was not your wife and you did not owe her anything as I am assuming she knew you were married, is definitely crossing the line. I mean saying Love, so and so in an email is like habit you could maybe wiggle out of but saying "I fell in love with you." yeah. that's a line. Your wife would feel betrayed and were she to know of your betrayal to your marriage by wooing another woman whilst in your marriage.

 

Now that I've gone through this myself? I think I'd be empathetic, I could see how it happened. I would give her credit, and I would not feel betrayed. I'd feel like she was tested, and chose loyalty. Maybe that's what is going on here. You guys cannot empathize with what it feels like to find that spark with someone while you're married because it hasn't happened to you. You haven't been tested like that yet. It's powerful, believe me. But it's also resistible, and commitment is a choice you make every day. Anybody who's been married for a while knows that there are days where marriage doesn't feel like it's the greatest thing. You don't bail then either, and it gets better once the trouble subsides. This really isn't all that different, it's just that the trouble involves someone else, rather than the way you fight, or whether you're a slob, or whatever the trouble is.

 

Once again, remember, your wife didn't do this. give yourself a cookie you can be empathetic to yourself. Empathy isn't putting the new you in your wife's shoes and then saying "If I was her I'd understand because now I know how easy it is to tell another woman I fell in love with her". Empathy is knowing your wife well enough to understand the hurt and betrayal she would feel at the words you have written about your OW, the feelings you had for her, the telling her you fell in love with her. All from your wife's perspective not your own. That is true empathy.

 

And don't try the cop out of "we can't empathize" because not all of us have been betrayed by our spouses. Some of us did the betraying. This board isn't just the betrayed.

 

I'm not trying to be harsh. But you seem bent on minimizing your actions while missing your OW. Now I get missing the OW. I'd be a hypocrite to say you can't talk about her. But I guess it is the irony of how completely naive about your affair you are while seeming so insightful. You appear to be an intelligent human being and I wonder how you lack insight into your own actions.