The Tailspin - 7 Weeks NC/LC

[Vivir]

Please forgive me my lengthy post. I have suffered a recent tailspin and need to vent (?).

 

Since the end of the affair on August 31, I have been hanging on to my resilience; some days are better than others.

 

On one hand, I feel sick when I visualize the pictures and other evidence I saw of the xMM's REAL life... on the other, I feel guilty for "discarding" him when we agreed to remain friends long before the affair ended and he has mentioned abuse at home (from her) more than once... to be completely honest, I actually don't see the point in us being friends, considering that I did most of the talking and the little he did contribute to our 5-days-each-week converastions really amounted to musings about the weather. Just sayin. Most of his contribution lacked the real substance you would find in an actual friendship, though he says he didn't want to burden me with his drama (that may never have existed, I suppose).

 

I had been preparing for the end of the affair for months, and we discussed how I had been feeling LONG before the actual end came. So, any questions he might have for me now about what has happened, he has the answers to them already. In any case, I told myself long ago that I would not treat him differently than any of our other coworkers once the affair ended (unfortunately, we work together). I do not go out of my way to see him or talk to him, but if I see him (and he sees me), I will speak.

 

But I do not call him and I have blocked his calls (he has never texted me). Last Friday, he caught me coming in to work. He mentioned being shocked by my not contacting him or accepting his calls. I told him (yet again) that I need the space that no contact can bring in order to regroup, get over my inappropriate feelings, and squash my hopes and expectations - and allow him to do the same. I want to say he doesn't understand why I won't entertain a friendship, but the fact is that he doesn't agree. He thinks that because we are adults we should be able to bounce back into our friendship as if nothing happened. He claims he isn't going anywhere and won't get over his feelings... I told him I wasn't a true friend and that I hurt him amd myself by engaging in the affair. He said he hurt me, too, and himself.

 

I know me. I know that I am sad we started something that cannot grow. I would not be a true friend, as I have less than his best interests at heart. I won't be able to stand to hear about his life outside of work - not that he would tell me about it... I know that I would feel damn near obligated to answer his calls when they come through, had I not blocked him. And even the two times he has caught me at work and I listened to him talk - one of the times, I began to cry *at work* and I mean REALLY cry. The other time, I disclosed that I knew that his wife had a baby in January. He didn't know that I knew and I did not disclose how I know. I had been afraid to tell him, seeing as how he kept this from me altogether (it's not my business, but I think he knows it would have sped up my decision to stop or stopped me in my tracks before the affair began).

 

He had come to me the week before I ended the affair, citing violence/abuse and I took him in. The next afternoon, he ran back home (she damaged his property, threatened suicide and threatened the kids... which he told me they didn't have any children together and his children from a previous marriage were visiting their mom.), leaving very important items and not returning to get them until the next day. The pictures of his pregnant wife are what allowed me to finally see the light and put an end to the affair.

 

Now, he knows everything.

 

Two nights ago, I just happened to see his rejected call in my call log - four days after I disclosed that I knew about the baby (that he insinuated wasn't his! Well, I saw the pictures that suggest otherwise -wedding rings on baby's toes- and he is listed as the father on the birth certificate, moreover HE IS HER HUSBAND) and still maintaining that it hurts me to be in contact with him.

 

This put me in a tailspin... because the people pleaser/Florence Nightingale in me feels guilty that he may be hurting and I have caused him to feel abandoned/rejected/discarded.

 

With NC, I have prioritized myself and my feelings for once, but I am still feeling guilty and sad. I have a routine for avoiding contact, but his contacting me leaves me feeling despair.

 

As this happened two nights ago, I am feeling better now. I just needed to get it out of my head. I don't want to be cold to him. With all that I now know, I am still fearful of him not feeling anything for me nor me for him, although these things are what I know needs to happen.

 

What do you all think?

[sandylee1]

So his wife had a baby and he says it's not his?

She cheated on him?

Then why is he still taking the abuse from her in addition to her getting pregnant by another man?

 

Isn't that the perfect reason to leave her? And be with you?

 

On the other hand. .... that really is a load of boll**ks. So what are you in a spin about a man who denies his flesh and blood?

 

He comes up with that story ... why? Because he's told you they don't have sex anymore? Now with a baby it's undeniable ... but instead of coming clean ... he denies his child.

 

That's another level of low.

[Vivir]

I definitely agree with you, sandylee. I don't think he believed those words, even as he said them. I think the reveal caught him off guard and he just didn't know what else to say - except a lie; he compartmentalizes very well.He is definitely one of those people who believes that he is too smart to get caught. For the record, I would bet money that the baby is his child. I told him that his wife would be incredibly hurt to hear him insinuate that someone else is the father of their child. At that point, the conversation was over.

 

It took me a while to wise up, believing that we were really friends and all, but I have come to the conclusion that anything he says to me, I should imagine him saying the opposite (which is probably what's true). The affair has ended, but it lasted for 13 months, and it is hard sometimes to quell my very real feelings. I am a work in progress.

[sandylee1]

All you can do is to keep working on it one day at a time. I'm just flummoxed that he would rather lie and deny his own child, just to make himself look good. Or to look like the victim of infidelity.

 

NC is the best way forward to get over it.

 

Believethat you deserve better and you won't get messed around.

[BTDT2012]

He deserves coldness from you.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Your post was almost a mirror to my story in many ways.

 

"Since the end of the affair on August 31, I have been hanging on to my resilience; some days are better than others."

 

Some days are better than others, but as time goes on the better days will continue to increase over the others.

 

"On one hand, I feel sick when I visualize the pictures and other evidence I saw of the xMM's REAL life..."

 

Yep, when I got access to wife's FB and saw the pictures smiling and arms around each other, it made me sick, too. Hard to deny when you see the evidence staring back at you.

 

"I feel guilty for "discarding" him when we agreed to remain friends long before the affair ended and he has mentioned abuse at home (from her) more than once..."

 

Don't feel guilty. Your guilt is a weapon he will use against you. The abuse at home story is a set up to play on your sympathy so he can manipulate you into thinking he's such a victim. The real victims are his wife, his kid, and you!

 

"to be completely honest, I actually don't see the point in us being friends, considering that I did most of the talking and the little he did contribute to our 5-days-each-week converastions really amounted to musings about the weather. Most of his contribution lacked the real substance you would find in an actual friendship, though he says he didn't want to burden me with his drama (that may never have existed, I suppose)."

 

Wow, this is so similar to my MM. All throughout I was on an epic struggle to get him to open up. Even would think to myself that strangers share more than him. He would respond that he is reclusive, but in other conversations talk about how he likes to socialize. So, I've concluded this was just another tool in his toolbox to maintain control over me, and to keep me more like an object rather than seeing me as another human being. It's easier to mistreat and manipulate someone when thinking of them as an object rather than a human. I did the lion's share of trying to build an emotional connection. He mostly complained about his work blah blah. When I would give tips on coping with work, he would say his work is not that bad. All lies! He only said what he thought would continue to get my empathy so he could milk what he wanted out of me. That's what I think your MM is doing. He knows you have a good heart (for milking). Sorry, but that's what I see.

 

"I had been preparing for the end of the affair for months, and we discussed how I had been feeling LONG before the actual end came. So, any questions he might have for me now about what has happened, he has the answers to them already."

 

Took me months to begin to detach. I tried many times without him knowing but it was too painful. Finally, when he messed up my birthday, I began to require more from him. He handled it with empty promises and no action. It took a couple months of observing this to finally detach, but I also feel he knows why from what I communicated many times about his disregard towards me. The thing is, OP, our MM's knew the real reasons before we said anything. They knew what they were doing. Master manipulators who hold the puppet strings...they know what they are doing.

 

"I do not go out of my way to see him or talk to him, but if I see him (and he sees me), I will speak."

 

Why bother speaking to him? It just tells him you are still available to be his narcissist supply. (I know that is strong but you should consider it an option and learn about narcissism.)

 

"But I do not call him and I have blocked his calls (he has never texted me). Last Friday, he caught me coming in to work. He mentioned being shocked by my not contacting him or accepting his calls. I told him (yet again) that I need the space that no contact can bring in order to regroup, get over my inappropriate feelings, and squash my hopes and expectations - and allow him to do the same. I want to say he doesn't understand why I won't entertain a friendship, but the fact is that he doesn't agree. He thinks that because we are adults we should be able to bounce back into our friendship as if nothing happened. He claims he isn't going anywhere and won't get over his feelings... I told him I wasn't a true friend and that I hurt him amd myself by engaging in the affair. He said he hurt me, too, and himself."

 

Good to block!!! He's shocked because his ego thought he had you over a barrel, and now you're not responding the same when he pulls on the puppet strings. Also note how he does not respect your boundaries. What he is really concerned with is keeping you "right there" to supply his whims. I see more manipulation in what you wrote. You have a bleeding heart for him and he's like a shark that smells blood in the water.

 

"I am sad we started something that cannot grow."

 

I also felt this way.

 

"I would not be a true friend, as I have less than his best interests at heart."

 

Sister, he does not have YOUR best interests at heart!

 

"I won't be able to stand to hear about his life outside of work - not that he would tell me about it... I know that I would feel damn near obligated to answer his calls when they come through, had I not blocked him. And even the two times he has caught me at work and I listened to him talk - one of the times, I began to cry *at work* and I mean REALLY cry."

 

Of course you wouldn't be able to hear about it, nor shouldn't. Obligated to answer calls--more bleeding heart. If he knew you cried, trust me, it thrilled him to know he can still affect you. Not in a "I want to care for her and make it better" kind of way. More of a "yeah, I still got her and I'm da man" kind of way.

 

"The other time, I disclosed that I knew that his wife had a baby in January. He didn't know that I knew and I did not disclose how I know. I had been afraid to tell him, seeing as how he kept this from me altogether (it's not my business, but I think he knows it would have sped up my decision to stop or stopped me in my tracks before the affair began)."

 

More signs of stonewalling, manipulation, and how he does not see you as a friend or more than a gratification object. Reading this gives new definition on how my counselor told me my MM didn't see what was between us as a "relationship," and I see the same things in your story.

 

"He had come to me the week before I ended the affair, citing violence/abuse and I took him in. The next afternoon, he ran back home (she damaged his property, threatened suicide and threatened the kids... which he told me they didn't have any children together and his children from a previous marriage were visiting their mom.), leaving very important items and not returning to get them until the next day."

 

More manipulation!

 

"The pictures of his pregnant wife are what allowed me to finally see the light and put an end to the affair."

 

But you know the truth! TRUST YOURSELF!!! The thing about being manipulated is it makes you doubt what you really know. And you do know! You need to trust yourself here with unwaivering ability!!! Also, consider group counseling or IC for help in seeing the manipulations.

 

"Now, he knows everything."

 

He was the only one who knew everything from the beginning. MM knows everything. OW knows some things. BS knows nothing other than something does not feel quite right.

 

"Two nights ago, I just happened to see his rejected call in my call log - four days after I disclosed that I knew about the baby (that he insinuated wasn't his! Well, I saw the pictures that suggest otherwise -wedding rings on baby's toes- and he is listed as the father on the birth certificate, moreover HE IS HER HUSBAND) and still maintaining that it hurts me to be in contact with him."

 

Again, note the lack of respect for your boundaries. He just wants what HE wants...a little side action with you at everyone else's expense! Trust yourself!!!! You know what you are seeing. Don't be talked out of it or manipulated!

 

"This put me in a tailspin... because the people pleaser/Florence Nightingale in me feels guilty that he may be hurting and I have caused him to feel abandoned/rejected/discarded."

 

Score a point for MM--this is exactly where he wants you!!! This is where he gets to prey on your empathy and manipulate you like the little puppet he wants you to be. But you are not a puppet! Don't fall for it!

 

"With NC, I have prioritized myself and my feelings for once, but I am still feeling guilty and sad."

 

Prioritizing yourself is where you need to be and stay! Give yourself some self love to take care of that guilt and sadness.

 

"I have a routine for avoiding contact, but his contacting me leaves me feeling despair."

 

More puppeteer-ing! You feel like this after his contact because he is playing with you and toying with your emotions subtly. Let your feelings be your guide. If it feels bad, it's bad! STAY AWAY!!! Hot stove, don't touch the hot stove! It will burn you!

 

"As this happened two nights ago, I am feeling better now. I just needed to get it out of my head. I don't want to be cold to him. With all that I now know, I am still fearful of him not feeling anything for me nor me for him, although these things are what I know needs to happen."

 

Cold is exactly what you need to be!!!!!! He is not thinking of you with even the tiniest fraction of consideration that you are giving him. Rather, he sees your consideration and thoughtfulness as signs that you are still ripe for manipulation. The fact that you have to still see him at work makes things more emotionally dangerous for you. It is harder to gain perspective when he is still in your space. RUN RUN RUN AWAY!!!! Give yourself all the love and consideration that you are giving to him.

Edited October 21, 2016 by HadMeOverABarrel

[Vivir]

HadMeOverABarrel, I just want you to know that I *really* needed to read what you wrote in response to my original post. Thank you so much for your perspective.

 

I hate to think that this person I considered my friend would manipulate me, but I am not surprised. People want what they want and some will do whatever to get it... I did this in my engaging with him and he has reminded me of that before - like I cannot change my mind or decide a different path...

 

Last night, he didn't wave or speak when he saw me. And I didn't either. It's a shame it has to be this way, but I just don't know what else I can do to further protect myself. Yesterday I was triggered by a love song I had never heard before on the radio. Two images of him popped into my head and one of them was from the moment he piqued my interest before I knew he was married it was endearing and made me miss him terribly. Furthermore, this song initiated my fantasizing about him.... BUT

 

I sanity checked my fantasy by attempting to replace images of myself with images of his wife with him instead... seducing him in the bedroom of the house he purchased for them (not that I know what it looks like). May be a little sadistic, but helped me bring my head out of the clouds and stop considering contact.

 

Still, I was reeling this morning... reading your post has helped me come away from the edge, and I was so sure I was going to fall in. I really appreciate you taking time to respond.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

HadMeOverABarrel, I just want you to know that I *really* needed to read what you wrote in response to my original post. Thank you so much for your perspective.

 

I hate to think that this person I considered my friend would manipulate me, but I am not surprised. People want what they want and some will do whatever to get it... I did this in my engaging with him and he has reminded me of that before - like I cannot change my mind or decide a different path...

 

Last night, he didn't wave or speak when he saw me. And I didn't either. It's a shame it has to be this way, but I just don't know what else I can do to further protect myself. Yesterday I was triggered by a love song I had never heard before on the radio. Two images of him popped into my head and one of them was from the moment he piqued my interest before I knew he was married it was endearing and made me miss him terribly. Furthermore, this song initiated my fantasizing about him.... BUT

 

I sanity checked my fantasy by attempting to replace images of myself with images of his wife with him instead... seducing him in the bedroom of the house he purchased for them (not that I know what it looks like). May be a little sadistic, but helped me bring my head out of the clouds and stop considering contact.

 

Still, I was reeling this morning... reading your post has helped me come away from the edge, and I was so sure I was going to fall in. I really appreciate you taking time to respond.

 

Vivir, I totally understand how you feel. Noone wants to believe that someone they care about would manipulate them for their own selfish gain. It's sort of wierd that he is setting you up to think that you are partners in crime for life. Maybe he has some weird fantasy along these lines? My MM told me about one month in that he didn't want to rock the boat in his life and I would end up marrying someone else while I was seeing him. Is that not totally weird? I would cut things off with him at the moment of entering a commitment with a single man that I would date--long before getting married. Just goes to show that some MM have things planned out for us loooooong before we know what we've gotten ourselves into.

 

Truth be told, Vivir, I still have moments of denial when I think maybe I am believing him to be a worse person during NC than he really was...but then I think about the following:

I started NC 33 days ago cold turkey without giving MM any warning on the day he left to take his daughter overseas to college. In an email, he told me before leaving we would continue regular contact via email. I replied to that email the same day, which was the day before he left. Something inside me told me I had start NC right then the day he left. Normally I would hear from him every two to four days. While he was away, he did not communicate with me at all, but emailed me on his return. In his email he complained about his car leaking oil on his return, that he was depressed about leaving his daughter but still had much to be thankful for, and that my last email was sexy and he wanted to F me in front of his wife (of 30 years) to teach her how it's done. I didn't respond keeping my NC commitment to myself. I was annoyed that it took him almost two weeks to "remember" me, but counted it as a blessing in disguise since I was by that point almost two weeks into grieving my exit. A couple days after receiving his email, I got friend status access to his wife's Facebook and saw 40 pictures of their trip together. Saw pictures of them acting goofy with his arm around her, lots of smiles in the pictures, the activities they did together with family and with each other. It was painful and set me back a couple of days. Here is my point in relating all this to you:

1. He emailed he was depressed and used that as the excuse of why he didn't contact me during his whole trip, but the pictures of their trip told a completely different story. Seemed like he was busy enjoying his wife too much to think of me.

2. He wanted me to feel sorry for him (to more easily distract and forgive his not thinking of me).

3. He wanted me to think he doesn't enjoy sex with his wife (who he seemed pretty happy with in the pictures), so I'd be easier to give it up to him.

4. I hope when you see the parallels in what I've written it will be easier for you to see how your MM is manipulating you. It's easier to see in someone else's story rather than our own.

 

Isn't it frustrating that our MM's aren't just more honest with us? Why lie so much? I naturally assume if he is living with his wife he is having sex with her...and if he's chosen to have sex with her for over 30 years how bad can it be?

 

I believe as time goes on, Vivir, we will get more and more clarity of the truth of our MM's...as the emotions wane we will be able to better see with clarity the reality of what we were involved in. Hang in there! You can write me and I'll do my best to help you get through this. It is not easy, but doable. You seem like a very kind-hearted person. Like you, I was already hooked before I knew MM was married and I "needed" to see where it would go...it was a crazy connection from the beginning (or so I thought). He hasn't contacted me since his email on his return from taking daughter to college (that was Sep 30) and this is the last thing that is under my skin...so I know what it feels like to be ignored, too! I won't know what it all means for some time yet...what was real verses not? Time will tell. STAY STRONG AND KEEP COMING BACK TO THIS FORUM INSTEAD OF CONTACTING HIM! Like they say at the end of my group meeting: It works if you work it, and work it because you're worth it! Hugs and love to you, Vivir!!!

[HadMeOverABarrel]

P.S. It is possible he has begun searching for his next AP since he sees you are trying to move on. I've been considering this a possibility with my MM. You may see signs of this since you work together, although I'm not encouraging you watch for it either (too painful!). Do you think you were his only AP during your A? Do you think he had other flirtations? Trolling for his next AP? My MM became defensive and less attentive when I told him I was looking for a way out of the pain I felt being with him, which made me think (in hindsight) that maybe he started looking for another AP. He also (selfishly) told me he didn't want me to be in pain but did not want to let me go...sounds like your MM, I think. Like even if I'm suffering he does not want to give me up (because it's what is good for him, not me) and he left it up to me to end things.

[HadMeOverABarrel]

Oh my gosh, and one more thing I forgot to mention to you in my first post to you! My MM told me at month 3 that he didn't want to drag me into things either (when I invited him to tell me about what was happening in his "situation" which is what he called his marriage). I tell you it's almost like this is the same guy. Do you work at a law firm?

[Vivir]

It's sort of wierd that he is setting you up to think that you are partners in crime for life. Maybe he has some weird fantasy along these lines?

 

HadMeOverABarrel, in my denials, I wanted to believe that he had been doing this because he actually intended to leave his wife (someday) and be with me. I will never know his heart/mind, but the fact is, he was willing to waste my time (and I let him) while he was deciding.

 

My MM told me about one month in that he didn't want to rock the boat in his life and I would end up marrying someone else while I was seeing him. Is that not totally weird?

 

Interestingly enough, having an affair *is* rocking the boat!

 

I would cut things off with him at the moment of entering a commitment with a single man that I would date--long before getting married. Just goes to show that some MM have things planned out for us loooooong before we know what we've gotten ourselves into.

 

I am reluctant to admit that I went the route of meeting and then dating someone else towards the end of the affair. In that space between continuously dating and commitment, I decided to be completely honest with the new guy. We had been dating just under three months, and he did NOT take it well. What you’ve called my bleeding heart obligation to xMM is what caused him to disengage; the new guy said he would not continue with me if I had any contact whatsoever with the MM, and I thought MM and I were “friends” so I thought it would be heartless to cut him off like that. Of course, in the end, xMM remains married, my possible relationship was ruined, and now I talk to neither of them. I cannot tell the future, but in the present I have lost out on a “real” relationship because I was selfish and impatient (and my closest friends say I don’t know how to keep my mouth shut; they don’t think I should have told the new guy anything at all). The new guy seemed very aware and mature, and I thought I could disclose and we could get past it. When I realized the “friend” MM could not have cared less about me having someone of my own, it was too late. He should’ve been cut off long ago. Hindsight is 20/20, as the saying goes.

 

Truth be told, Vivir, I still have moments of denial when I think maybe I am believing him to be a worse person during NC than he really was...

 

Unfortunately, this happens to me A LOT. Just today, I have decided to maintain that it doesn’t matter if he is or was worse, no contact is about me doing what I need to do for myself.

 

I appreciate you sharing the facts about how you were manipulated. Got me to thinking:

During the first few days after ending the affair, I couldn’t believe how angry I became when I realized xMM had been using me to sound off about his job… he takes care of a wife; it is her DUTY to listen to him sound off. In passing conversation, it became clear that he pays the mortgage at THEIR house; I am responsible for the rent at my apartment (which is only about $300 less than his mortgage)… BUT he thought he should have a key to my place. A place where he could seek refuge! Once, I had the interior of my car shampooed, but he cleans their cars every weekend. He puts gas in their cars. I am not in any way saying it shouldn’t have been so, but he would perform a disappearing act every weekend. God forbid it was a holiday weekend… and then he would be back on my phone during the week… I just got sick of it all. Don’t get me wrong; married people sign on to take care of each other. It just took me some time to really become aware of what I had allowed myself to become involved in… The new guy helped me to see what I had actually been missing, since it had been so long since I had been in a “real” relationship. I was responsible for EVERYTHING in my life, and over time, I just no longer saw the supposed benefit of being involved with the MM.

 

Isn't it frustrating that our MM's aren't just more honest with us? Why lie so much? I naturally assume if he is living with his wife he is having sex with her...and if he's chosen to have sex with her for over 30 years how bad can it be?

 

I think they lie to keep things going. I think they lie to avoid “hurting” people. To believe they are not hurting and lying *to someone* is naïveté. I admit, I have been unthinking and utterly naïve. It is possible that xMM is lying to himself, but I cannot lie to myself, not anymore. I have never been good with cognitive dissonance. And I have made it my mission to cut out even so-called white lies to others. If I am living my values, then I can be honest at all times, and I think people overall will find this refreshing. But mostly, I want to do it because it makes me feel happy and at peace with my own self.

 

Again, HadMeOverABarrel, I truly appreciate you taking time to respond to me. The last few days have been harder than any others up to this point. Corresponding with you has helped me tremendously. Thank you so much! Hugs and love to you, too. I am wishing you well

 

PS - No, I do not work at a law firm - different guy, same handbook! Also, xMM is beautiful. He has no problem with attracting women in the least. In fact, he has mentioned more than once that this has been a problem in his marriage. He gets A LOT of unwanted attention; I have even witnessed it myself. Apparently, his wife hates it and takes her anger out on him.

 

It is possible that he will have another AP, though he says this was his first and last time taking the affair route. Anything he does romantically would sting me. Right now, it would probably hurt me. BUT remembering how badly I have felt over the last half of a year at least... makes me realize that being in an affair is not where I need or want to be.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Vivir