Finally ending it 100%

[Outofmysystem]

Hey Chika, Blue....no, I don't want her....in "the bubble" one time I did....towards the end....but as I was facing the fact that one job was ending and coming to terms with that, going after and getting the new job (also the one I helped her get as well at the new store) she was on a trajectory going away from me and I was holding on to what was slipping away....seems she was 3 steps ahead of me in that fact. Fast forward a few months and the new job required us to train 4 days a week in another city (which I absolutely hate) and with them basically lying about how long the new store was going to take to open (months instead of weeks) and my attitude and schedule around my life and kids finally pushed me out (that and fighting with her for weeks as we stayed at a hotel for training) she drank the kool-aid and I realized what a joke the owner (and flunky "new" management we're going to be) ...add in the fact that her "new" boyfriend works at that store and for the owner in his house, she was already working her "backup" plan as she was dumping me and then planning on dumping her husband months later all under the guise of "being with just her kids" for awhile.

 

Obviously she is a liar and I fell for everything for 6 years. I am trying to make things as best I can for my wife and kids and I'm thankful that I didn't hurt them anymore than I did. Yes, I'm a liar and and a cheat, but I understand my selfishness and I understand that she is the worst choice I could have ever made if it were to go that way.....I thought she wasn't at one time, but I was very wrong.....

 

What I want though is to get the programming out of my brain because she fed me every day with emails, conversations and un relenting sex for so long it was a total mind ****, brain wash....with her deciding in the end to just turn it off like a faucet.

 

Not saying that so anyone feels sorry for me, just stating the facts.....the used me for all she wanted and then blew me off faster than her ex-husband....she TRUELY has multiple issues.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Outofmysystem

[MidnightBlue1980]

Hey Chika, Blue....no, I don't want her....in "the bubble" one time I did....towards the end....but as I was facing the fact that one job was ending and coming to terms with that, going after and getting the new job (also the one I helped her get as well at the new store) she was on a trajectory going away from me and I was holding on to what was slipping away....seems she was 3 steps ahead of me in that fact. Fast forward a few months and the new job required us to train 4 days a week in another city (which I absolutely hate) and with them basically lying about how long the new store was going to take to open (months instead of weeks) and my attitude and schedule around my life and kids finally pushed me out (that and fighting with her for weeks as we stayed at a hotel for training) she drank the kool-aid and I realized what a joke the owner (and flunky "new" management we're going to be) ...add in the fact that her "new" boyfriend works at that store and for the owner in his house, she was already working her "backup" plan as she was dumping me and then planning on dumping her husband months later all under the guise of "being with just her kids" for awhile.

 

Obviously she is a liar and I fell for everything for 6 years. I am trying to make things as best I can for my wife and kids and I'm thankful that I didn't hurt them anymore than I did. Yes, I'm a liar and and a cheat, but I understand my selfishness and I understand that she is the worst choice I could have ever made if it were to go that way.....I thought she wasn't at one time, but I was very wrong.....

 

What I want though is to get the programming out of my brain because she fed me every day with emails, conversations and un relenting sex for so long it was a total mind ****, brain wash....with her deciding in the end to just turn it off like a faucet.

 

Not saying that so anyone feels sorry for me, just stating the facts.....the used me for all she wanted and then blew me off faster than her ex-husband....she TRUELY has multiple issues.

 

I did not get the mindblowing sex but I understand the mindf*ck feeling and it being turned off like a faucet. I actually never thought of it that way. You know that is a sociopathic trait, right?

 

So after I had written my post here, my H strongly encouraged me to go on Tuesday and see it through to the bitter end. So I went and he was right. Without writing a novel which few will read, I know now without a shadow of a doubt not only was he over it and had no feelings - I finally realized that he never had any actual feelings the whole time. So it was not that he got over it so fast, as I had thought, it was just only real for me.

 

He love bombed me back in 2015 to get what he wanted (sex) and once it was too complicated for him, he moved on. I realized on Tuesday that I basically spent the entire 2016 year hung up on someone who had zero real interest in me. Don't get me wrong, he enjoyed it and played a lot of mind games to keep me thinking he had feelings for me, for whatever cruel and sadistic reason only he knows. But it was this total mind-altering moment like in the Wizard of Oz when they pull back the curtain and there is only the little man there, no wizard. Also I am now pretty sure in 2016 there was someone else, right there in the same room. Over now though, I could tell.

 

I did not talk to him much, but I did ask how his wife was. He said not good, very emotional. He said that once things calm down with her, he hopes to be back if his spot is still open. At the end, I said what I came there to say to him, one word - "Goodbye". Nothing else. He said, "take it easy kid". I turned and walked out and that was that. It hurt but I tell myself there is zero point to feel bad over someone who literally does not care. I played it excellent. Maybe I died a bit inside but he never knew.

 

And the irony is that he will never be able to convince his wife that he made all that up just to hook up with me. Which is worse - your husband loved someone else or your husband is this sexual predator?

 

The only feelings he had were his upsetment over having to leave the group. He got a little choked up saying it was his last day. It is everything to him, the guys, the MONEY - it is the only thing he cares about - and therefore it is what I will take from him. His wife obviously knew this as she started it, I will finish it. Within an hour I had someone registered for his spot to come next week. He would have received an email, he's not out of the system yet. If this person does not join, I will call everyone who does what he does in the tristate area. He is never coming back.

 

I wasted 18 months of my life on him.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I wanted to respond to you directly Out. I'll be honest. Your story is a little hard to read, I mean that literally, you use a lot of *#@*$#, and I am guessing that after so many years, it is a story which is best told in person and would probably take pages and pages to write out.

 

But I can tell that you were deeply in love, got used and are deeply hurt and that is really all that matters. There is not much I can say except you are certainly not alone in that, I validate your feelings and know that there are people out there - both genders - who are just monsters and they walk among us. They have no conscience, no empathy, no shame, they truly do not care what others feel and they will use and discard at their own leisure. People are objects to them.

 

You still have your family (and I am assuming your marriage has a shot here and you want to be in it) so picture them like a big tree. A tree symbolizes protection and security. I like the willow tree, which represent wishes of the heart, learning from the past, inner vision and dreams. See this woman as your storm and see your tree as your safe place. Cling to it. Don't leave it again. This is how I am getting by.

[Chica80]

I miss our old super thread....

[Outofmysystem]

Blue, thanks for the positive visual and imagery, I try to think that way everyday and it helps. I'm not sure when you read my posts if my story is hard to follow (granted, I did just chop it up over the past year in a bunch of different posts) or if it the cursing or both?...I can tell you, I've used this place as "cheap" therapy, not that the advice is not invaluable, but that it's easy to vent out whatever I'm thinking and put it into a post....cathartic would describe it. But if it is the language, I apologize....sorta....lol.....how I describe it and her now really is how it is, and I'm just now (well, have for months) come to realize that...

 

You are right, they are sociopaths.....in her case, the most selfish, absorbed person I have met, that used every thing she had to get whatever she wanted without explanation or consequence.....acknowledged, I had my part, but she went beyond that. Much like yours.....and even though you know where you stand with your X, the lies for me were so believable that yes, I was in love with her and I thought she was too especially since she reaffirmed it every single day.

 

That said, I had (have) everything I need in my wife and family right now. Part of this addiction and disease is making you think that you don't!, and that's the biggest lie that I told myself....

 

She was NEVER worth it, the pedestal that I put her on, the things I did for her, bought for her were never worth what I thought they were. Again, If I could carve out the "positive" reinforcement training that I got I'd be better than ever.

 

That's why your posts and others (Chika agree with the super thread comment) help so much....you are not alone in yours just like I am not alone in mine....so thanks for the kind words.

 

Congrats on finishing yours the way you wanted, I hope he gets his just rewards.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I miss our old super thread....

 

I know. Feel free to post on this one. I don't really have much more to say about my xmm since I won't be seeing him anymore.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Blue, thanks for the positive visual and imagery, I try to think that way everyday and it helps. I'm not sure when you read my posts if my story is hard to follow (granted, I did just chop it up over the past year in a bunch of different posts) or if it the cursing or both?...I can tell you, I've used this place as "cheap" therapy, not that the advice is not invaluable, but that it's easy to vent out whatever I'm thinking and put it into a post....cathartic would describe it. But if it is the language, I apologize....sorta....lol.....how I describe it and her now really is how it is, and I'm just now (well, have for months) come to realize that...

 

You are right, they are sociopaths.....in her case, the most selfish, absorbed person I have met, that used every thing she had to get whatever she wanted without explanation or consequence.....acknowledged, I had my part, but she went beyond that. Much like yours.....and even though you know where you stand with your X, the lies for me were so believable that yes, I was in love with her and I thought she was too especially since she reaffirmed it every single day.

 

That said, I had (have) everything I need in my wife and family right now. Part of this addiction and disease is making you think that you don't!, and that's the biggest lie that I told myself....

 

She was NEVER worth it, the pedestal that I put her on, the things I did for her, bought for her were never worth what I thought they were. Again, If I could carve out the "positive" reinforcement training that I got I'd be better than ever.

 

That's why your posts and others (Chika agree with the super thread comment) help so much....you are not alone in yours just like I am not alone in mine....so thanks for the kind words.

 

Congrats on finishing yours the way you wanted, I hope he gets his just rewards.

 

I do think karma worked it's way with him. He has a gps tracker on him and he can literally now go nowhere and she reads every electronic communication that comes in and out. But the irony you see is that he set up his own trap with his own words, in a sense he is paying for a crime he did not actually commit, yes the cheating and lying of course (as we all did those two), but all the love stuff to me was fake, the big thing is that he lied to her that he did not love me and now she read 2 years of him saying I love you. And now he will spend the next year in MC discussing it and no one will believe him if he says, I really just made it up. It was his arrogance that got him in the end.

 

I don't know if I explained that well. I am not a writer.

 

As for your story, cursing does not bother me, it's just a bit jumbled with the work parts, I can't exactly understand if you work together or the context in that it all happened. It probably doesn't really matter at this point, I get the point which is that you are really upset over someone which you were with for 7 years (I think 7 years?) and now you are watching her with someone else. So I get that part.

 

I will tell you from my own experience that I could not have gotten over all this if I did not tell my husband the truth, granted I will admit the revealing of a 7 year affair is likely to completely devastate your life and I am guessing you don't want that, esp since it's over and you see what she is like.

 

But the thing is, I was pretty unhappy with a lot of things and it's only because of the horror show we went through here, everything is totally different in my life now. The things which caused me so much unhappiness are being addressed and in some cases are gone. To be specific, my husband now has a job after 10 years of being at home, and I have left my corporate job and work at home on my own business. I no longer work 80 hours a week and feel like a paycheck, I see my kids now, which I literally never did. H pays attention to me and I am aware of his needs as well.

 

None of that would have happened if everything did not blow up in 2015. Just something to think about. If nothing changes, nothing can change.

[DKT3]

I did not get the mindblowing sex but I understand the mindf*ck feeling and it being turned off like a faucet. I actually never thought of it that way. You know that is a sociopathic trait, right?

 

So after I had written my post here, my H strongly encouraged me to go on Tuesday and see it through to the bitter end. So I went and he was right. Without writing a novel which few will read, I know now without a shadow of a doubt not only was he over it and had no feelings - I finally realized that he never had any actual feelings the whole time. So it was not that he got over it so fast, as I had thought, it was just only real for me.

 

He love bombed me back in 2015 to get what he wanted (sex) and once it was too complicated for him, he moved on. I realized on Tuesday that I basically spent the entire 2016 year hung up on someone who had zero real interest in me. Don't get me wrong, he enjoyed it and played a lot of mind games to keep me thinking he had feelings for me, for whatever cruel and sadistic reason only he knows. But it was this total mind-altering moment like in the Wizard of Oz when they pull back the curtain and there is only the little man there, no wizard. Also I am now pretty sure in 2016 there was someone else, right there in the same room. Over now though, I could tell.

 

I did not talk to him much, but I did ask how his wife was. He said not good, very emotional. He said that once things calm down with her, he hopes to be back if his spot is still open. At the end, I said what I came there to say to him, one word - "Goodbye". Nothing else. He said, "take it easy kid". I turned and walked out and that was that. It hurt but I tell myself there is zero point to feel bad over someone who literally does not care. I played it excellent. Maybe I died a bit inside but he never knew.

 

And the irony is that he will never be able to convince his wife that he made all that up just to hook up with me. Which is worse - your husband loved someone else or your husband is this sexual predator?

 

The only feelings he had were his upsetment over having to leave the group. He got a little choked up saying it was his last day. It is everything to him, the guys, the MONEY - it is the only thing he cares about - and therefore it is what I will take from him. His wife obviously knew this as she started it, I will finish it. Within an hour I had someone registered for his spot to come next week. He would have received an email, he's not out of the system yet. If this person does not join, I will call everyone who does what he does in the tristate area. He is never coming back.

 

I wasted 18 months of my life on him.

This is my message here in a nutshell. They should pin this post at the top of this section.

 

The problem when it comes to MW/OW who get involved with MM is that women just don't understand how the male mind works, they too often mistakingly think our minds operate like a female mind. It doesn't. In order for a MW to get involved (generally) there has to be a perceived issue in the marriage real or made up, she then has to create a distance between her and her husband/boyfriend. Like a scale she has to take away from the husband to give to MM both physically and emotionally. It simply isn't the case with men. Most MM never change how they view their wives or marriages. The MW/OW is in addition too and not instead of.

 

MW often search for a deeper connection and will use sex to maintain it once the think they've found it, with the goal being the connection and not the sex, where as MM will use the promise of possibilities to get sex. It's a perfect formula, and when a woman becomes blinded with infatuation with the possibilities they miss all the signs. Only one the spell is broken so they see his true nature and the nature of that relationship.

[Chica80]

I know. Feel free to post on this one. I don't really have much more to say about my xmm since I won't be seeing him anymore.

 

Not true MB... You have a lot to say. A whole years worth

As time goes on you will heal and you will see more things you didn't see before.

 

As for me....things are a bit different. They've been changing the last two weeks or so. Distance and whatnot.

We had a conversation the other day. We talked how in the beginning, I think he was a way out. A way out of my situation. I saw felt what I wanted and knew I wanted more. He wanted/wants to "save me" take care of me. I said ya maybe in the beginning it started out that way, but not anymore. I want more. I don't want to be saved or taken care of. I want a partner someone I can share things with, share my life with. That can't be and wont ever be you. I always come back, but I don't want to this time. It's just different. I want more and what's the point of staying if we will never have more?

 

So not necessarily NC I just things are coming to an end. They've been feeling that way.

 

OUT I always am happy to hear your side of things. Some things you say have at times reminded me of him.

 

You also strike some triggers though.... It's not that she didn't love you. It's not that you didn't mean anything to her. But after 6 years.....she chose to change her situation. To make it better, to make her life better. You weren't giving her any reason to stay. You have a wife a family. Your life is the same you are in the same place doing the same thing. Was she supposed to continue to stay? On the side doing the same thing? For how much longer 5 years. 6 years 10 years? Is it cruel YES! Does it feel sh**** YES! But she had to cut you out. Move on ignore that part of her life. Because you weren't giving her any reason to hold on. At some point love is not enough. It just isn't. You need more you want more. If you love her doesn't she deserve more. Don't you?

 

I'm sure if she was the one posting she would have a totally different take.....

[MidnightBlue1980]

This is my message here in a nutshell. They should pin this post at the top of this section.

 

The problem when it comes to MW/OW who get involved with MM is that women just don't understand how the male mind works, they too often mistakingly think our minds operate like a female mind. It doesn't. In order for a MW to get involved (generally) there has to be a perceived issue in the marriage real or made up, she then has to create a distance between her and her husband/boyfriend. Like a scale she has to take away from the husband to give to MM both physically and emotionally. It simply isn't the case with men. Most MM never change how they view their wives or marriages. The MW/OW is in addition too and not instead of.

 

MW often search for a deeper connection and will use sex to maintain it once the think they've found it, with the goal being the connection and not the sex, where as MM will use the promise of possibilities to get sex. It's a perfect formula, and when a woman becomes blinded with infatuation with the possibilities they miss all the signs. Only one the spell is broken so they see his true nature and the nature of that relationship.

 

I do believe this now and looking back, I'm pretty sure I have been used like this by guys in my single days. Guys will lie and lovebomb you to get what they want.

 

My question is though, don't they feel bad at all? Don't they see us as other human beings with real feelings?

 

I'm starting to think men are almost another species.

[DKT3]

I do believe this now and looking back, I'm pretty sure I have been used like this by guys in my single days. Guys will lie and lovebomb you to get what they want.

 

My question is though, don't they feel bad at all? Don't they see us as other human beings with real feelings?

 

I'm starting to think men are almost another species.

 

Not all of us, but there is a large percentage.

 

What's scary is its surprisingly easy. After I divorced I was 100% honest with my intentions with every woman I encountered, however what I said and what they heard often didn't match. I would say your m only interested in a short fling they would hear try harder, be more available. Women tend to fill in the blanks, after a while it's easier to just let them drive the bus and go along for the sex.

 

A married woman is idea, this is what so many don't understand. MW make all the effort, drive all the excitement. He just sits back and let's it happen. Sure he makes effort in the beginning, but after that, it's all her. She takes one grain of sand and makes it into a beach.

 

Some women get stuck and find a series of this men, that's because women with low esteem, attract guy that are looking for that, easy prey. My wife is amazed that I can instantly pick out women she meets who are lacking confidence and self worth. It's like wearing a sign that says I'm available to be taken advantage of.

 

Once a MW opens up, he just sits back and waits to find where is angle is. Ex: my husband doesn't spend time with the kids....MM-oh I spend all the time I can with my kids. Point to MM, of course it's BS because he trying to get in your pants.

 

This isn't a MW issue, it's. All women issue. When a guy tells you or shows you who he is, believe him, not thinking he didn't mean what he said or filling in the blanks.

 

But yes there are a large percentage of men who will use whatever he has to to get in your pants. It obvious if your looking for it, love bombs then stops, love bombs get laid then stop, I want to be with you, get laid then ghosts you for a week or two. It's not complicated, but women, MW especially, don't want to see it, so they make excuses. He doesn't even have to do the work.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Not all of us, but there is a large percentage.

 

What's scary is its surprisingly easy. After I divorced I was 100% honest with my intentions with every woman I encountered, however what I said and what they heard often didn't match. I would say your m only interested in a short fling they would hear try harder, be more available. Women tend to fill in the blanks, after a while it's easier to just let them drive the bus and go along for the sex.

 

A married woman is idea, this is what so many don't understand. MW make all the effort, drive all the excitement. He just sits back and let's it happen. Sure he makes effort in the beginning, but after that, it's all her. She takes one grain of sand and makes it into a beach.

 

Some women get stuck and find a series of this men, that's because women with low esteem, attract guy that are looking for that, easy prey. My wife is amazed that I can instantly pick out women she meets who are lacking confidence and self worth. It's like wearing a sign that says I'm available to be taken advantage of.

 

Once a MW opens up, he just sits back and waits to find where is angle is. Ex: my husband doesn't spend time with the kids....MM-oh I spend all the time I can with my kids. Point to MM, of course it's BS because he trying to get in your pants.

 

This isn't a MW issue, it's. All women issue. When a guy tells you or shows you who he is, believe him, not thinking he didn't mean what he said or filling in the blanks.

 

But yes there are a large percentage of men who will use whatever he has to to get in your pants. It obvious if your looking for it, love bombs then stops, love bombs get laid then stop, I want to be with you, get laid then ghosts you for a week or two. It's not complicated, but women, MW especially, don't want to see it, so they make excuses. He doesn't even have to do the work.

 

'Take a grain of sand and make it into a beach.' That is a really good line.

 

I have come to believe everything you say is true. But I add to it that it's all perspective, which side of the coin you are on. Forgetting the perpetual George Clooney bachelor type, what most of the men have in common is that they did settle down with a woman, and maybe they cheat on her, maybe it's like you and you were single for a while, maybe it's like Blues and the woman is a mess, but in 99% of cases they come back to that woman.

 

So how can a man then be so attached to one woman pretty much his whole life while be a total d*ck and use all the other women around him? If a man had that capability to have such immense love for one woman that it overshadowed every bad thing she had done to him, then it would stand to reason that such a man capable of such emotion would not be able to callously use and discard other women. The two do not fit together. So which is it, is he a jerk or is he a great guy? Perspective.

 

And if you look at the boards, you see it over and over again, this board is full of women lamenting some married guy treating them like garbage, while the infidelity board and the divorce boards are generally full of men who cannot let go of their wives, who are treating them like garbage. It's almost as if these guys have two sides - after all, the same guy posting about losing his wife could have an OW posting about how she is dying in pain over him.

 

So this bond the man has with his wife, is it love? or is it something else then? Is it a substitute for mommy? Codependency? Or maybe we all just like being treated like garbage?

 

What do you think about some of the men who post here for years, missing their AP? Maybe people are just addicted to the pain.

 

In any event, I do believe you and I can't offer much to all the threads here. Whatever the reason, I have one man who is devoted to me so I will stick with him and I am now aware that other men only talk to me for one of two reasons, for business (this is a valid reason these days) or to potentially use me. I will admit I had thought the male gender had advanced to a level where they could interact with women, see us as equals, be friends, not just sexual toys. I guess I was wrong.

 

Talk about trust issues now.

[Chica80]

'Take a grain of sand and make it into a beach.' That is a really good line.

 

I have come to believe everything you say is true. But I add to it that it's all perspective, which side of the coin you are on. Forgetting the perpetual George Clooney bachelor type, what most of the men have in common is that they did settle down with a woman, and maybe they cheat on her, maybe it's like you and you were single for a while, maybe it's like Blues and the woman is a mess, but in 99% of cases they come back to that woman.

 

So how can a man then be so attached to one woman pretty much his whole life while be a total d*ck and use all the other women around him? If a man had that capability to have such immense love for one woman that it overshadowed every bad thing she had done to him, then it would stand to reason that such a man capable of such emotion would not be able to callously use and discard other women. The two do not fit together. So which is it, is he a jerk or is he a great guy? Perspective.

 

And if you look at the boards, you see it over and over again, this board is full of women lamenting some married guy treating them like garbage, while the infidelity board and the divorce boards are generally full of men who cannot let go of their wives, who are treating them like garbage. It's almost as if these guys have two sides - after all, the same guy posting about losing his wife could have an OW posting about how she is dying in pain over him.

 

So this bond the man has with his wife, is it love? or is it something else then? Is it a substitute for mommy? Codependency? Or maybe we all just like being treated like garbage?

 

What do you think about some of the men who post here for years, missing their AP? Maybe people are just addicted to the pain.

 

In any event, I do believe you and I can't offer much to all the threads here. Whatever the reason, I have one man who is devoted to me so I will stick with him and I am now aware that other men only talk to me for one of two reasons, for business (this is a valid reason these days) or to potentially use me. I will admit I had thought the male gender had advanced to a level where they could interact with women, see us as equals, be friends, not just sexual toys. I guess I was wrong.

 

Talk about trust issues now.

 

 

MB I don't think it's always so simple or so black and white. I think there are alot of similarities but not all the same.

 

Your MM and his reasons may not be the same as someone elses.

He used you for his own needs. He lied to you lied to his wife. I could be wrong it's not so much the pain of not being with him but the feeling of being used and discarded like you meant nothing. I think that is the most hurtful.

 

Look at Blues, Jenks, Out three different MM with three different perspectives. Your husband? Similarities but different. Just my pov

[MidnightBlue1980]

MB I don't think it's always so simple or so black and white. I think there are alot of similarities but not all the same.

 

Your MM and his reasons may not be the same as someone elses.

He used you for his own needs. He lied to you lied to his wife. I could be wrong it's not so much the pain of not being with him but the feeling of being used and discarded like you meant nothing. I think that is the most hurtful.

 

Look at Blues, Jenks, Out three different MM with three different perspectives. Your husband? Similarities but different. Just my pov

 

No, they are all the same, don't you see? Of course Blues, Jenks and Out seem like nice guys (and I am not saying they are not) but they are like my H in that it all depends on what side you are on. We are not emotionally involved. All the guys have a wife they love and never had any intention of leaving them. All have an OW who lost. Some are 100% nicer to the OW than others, there is definitely a scale of d*ckness, totally and you are correct, my xmm was at the ding, ding ding, you are a complete d*ck, and yes, Jenks and Out sound like pretty good mm but doesn't that make it worse in a way? The other woman never stood a chance.

 

DKG3 had it right and I am failing at trying to convey it in words.

 

What I mean is this - you are either the wife (or the serious girlfriend to be the wife) or you are not. And if you are not, you never will be and you are just being used for sex. Each man picks one woman, you see it time and time again here. If you are single, it is harder to figure out - does he like me or is he just using me - but if you are married or with a married man, he is using you. That is really what he was saying in his 3000 posts and he's right.

 

And you know in your heart it is true. Sunshine - didn't the guy go and married another woman while being with you? These guys are using us. You have to see that. That is what DKG is saying and no one is listening.

 

We can't change the male gender, so it starts with us. We have to change.

 

I am not being mean. I've been here with you for a year now. I say this with kindness - don't we all as women deserve more than this?

[elaine567]

When a guy tells you or shows you who he is, believe him, not thinking he didn't mean what he said or filling in the blanks.

 

Thus is so true. women are just so great at writing love stories in their head about "their man" that it almost doesn't matter how he behaves or what he says, she is ready with the excuses for him.

 

I think ego may have something to do with it.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Thus is so true. women are just so great at writing love stories in their head about "their man" that it almost doesn't matter how he behaves or what he says, she is ready with the excuses for him.

 

I think ego may have something to do with it.

 

Probably. My H said that to me all this year, that it was largely my ego. He said women were used to being asked to dance, asked to be bought a drink, asked to go out, asked to marry - so they never got used to rejection. He said, when you buy a woman a drink and she walks away with it and goes to talk to another guy 10 feet away, you develop a shell which women just don't have. You learn to just not give a f*ck.

[DKT3]

No, they are all the same, don't you see? Of course Blues, Jenks and Out seem like nice guys (and I am not saying they are not) but they are like my H in that it all depends on what side you are on. We are not emotionally involved. All the guys have a wife they love and never had any intention of leaving them. All have an OW who lost. Some are 100% nicer to the OW than others, there is definitely a scale of d*ckness, totally and you are correct, my xmm was at the ding, ding ding, you are a complete d*ck, and yes, Jenks and Out sound like pretty good mm but doesn't that make it worse in a way? The other woman never stood a chance.

 

DKG3 had it right and I am failing at trying to convey it in words.

 

What I mean is this - you are either the wife (or the serious girlfriend to be the wife) or you are not. And if you are not, you never will be and you are just being used for sex. Each man picks one woman, you see it time and time again here. If you are single, it is harder to figure out - does he like me or is he just using me - but if you are married or with a married man, he is using you. That is really what he was saying in his 3000 posts and he's right.

 

And you know in your heart it is true. Sunshine - didn't the guy go and married another woman while being with you? These guys are using us. You have to see that. That is what DKG is saying and no one is listening.

 

We can't change the male gender, so it starts with us. We have to change.

 

I am not being mean. I've been here with you for a year now. I say this with kindness - don't we all as women deserve more than this?

 

You are actually pretty close. I really wish more women could hear male conversations about love relationships and thier women. There is definitely two groups, ones you marry and ones you have "fun" with. Why each woman is which to each guy is really a mystery.

 

 

 

Midnight, I sense you going to a dark place. I think your issue is thinking that it had to be all or nothing. Either MM was totally vested, ready to walk away with you or you were crap on the bottom of his shoe.

 

I think where so many MW/OW get crossed isn't so much with his behavior, but his behavior against your expectations of him being wonderboy. These thoughts that he is some kind of perfect man, perfect fit is ridiculous. What woman dreams as a girl/young lady to share a dream man with his wife and kids? Really. What 17 year old dreams of a guy who can lie to his wife, steal time from his kids, risk thier well being?

 

When you step back and look at the totality of it all its absolutely ridiculous.

[DKT3]

Probably. My H said that to me all this year, that it was largely my ego. He said women were used to being asked to dance, asked to be bought a drink, asked to go out, asked to marry - so they never got used to rejection. He said, when you buy a woman a drink and she walks away with it and goes to talk to another guy 10 feet away, you develop a shell which women just don't have. You learn to just not give a f*ck.

 

This is true, there is a saying, behind every womanizer there is a woman that broke his heart.

 

Men for the most part are emotionally weak, so once hurt many take measures to ensure that it never EVER happens again. So the next 15 woman that cross his path pays for that one.

[Outofmysystem]

Chica, your right, everything was staying the same and I wasn't giving her more.....difference was she never ASKED me to leave for her.....sure we fantasized about where we would go on a honeymoon if we married, or how we'd spend an afternoon in our apartment watching football on a Sunday together, but she never, ever pushed for it because she was still content being married too...until she wasn't.....so she had the new jerk off already making her coffee in the morn before we started training, chatting her up in the break room, I'm sure she knew that, "I've got this one if I want" so she either started something with him at the same time and lied to me AND her husband, or left him on hold, broke up with me because the job was more important and she saw that I wasn't going to be with that place much longer, dumped, me then months later divorced her husband. ALL of it under the guise of "just wanting to be just her and the kids" then not 2 months after she's "in a relationship" with **** face and spouting all over her Facebook page about "how wonderful a man he is", and posting pictures of the 2 of them.....

 

If it had been more of the "her or me", things might have been different....at one point before the end, I thought if we both were ready and really committed to being with each other and willing to put in the hard work to do that, took care of both our situations as best we could we would be together....I believed I was ready I was that in love with her....but all of it ,like most, was a lie....she used me as much, if not more than I used her......I laugh now thinking about what she said in the beginning....she told me at one point when I was thinking if we should start anything or not, "I don't care, just use me however you want".....then in the end, after throwing a tantrum and fighting over nothing she told me, "you just want me for sex"....this coming from a woman who demanded sex practically every time we saw each other....

 

Now how ****ed is all that?....

[Outofmysystem]

Blue, you've got a point about us in general......if we are dicks or nice which one is worse to lose to?....both really because in the end we all lose on both side.....seems the pain of what ever we started is all we have left in the end except the rare few that get together and make it work.

[Chica80]

Chica, your right, everything was staying the same and I wasn't giving her more.....difference was she never ASKED me to leave for her.....sure we fantasized about where we would go on a honeymoon if we married, or how we'd spend an afternoon in our apartment watching football on a Sunday together, but she never, ever pushed for it because she was still content being married too...until she wasn't.....so she had the new jerk off already making her coffee in the morn before we started training, chatting her up in the break room, I'm sure she knew that, "I've got this one if I want" so she either started something with him at the same time and lied to me AND her husband, or left him on hold, broke up with me because the job was more important and she saw that I wasn't going to be with that place much longer, dumped, me then months later divorced her husband. ALL of it under the guise of "just wanting to be just her and the kids" then not 2 months after she's "in a relationship" with **** face and spouting all over her Facebook page about "how wonderful a man he is", and posting pictures of the 2 of them.....

 

If it had been more of the "her or me", things might have been different....at one point before the end, I thought if we both were ready and really committed to being with each other and willing to put in the hard work to do that, took care of both our situations as best we could we would be together....I believed I was ready I was that in love with her....but all of it ,like most, was a lie....she used me as much, if not more than I used her......I laugh now thinking about what she said in the beginning....she told me at one point when I was thinking if we should start anything or not, "I don't care, just use me however you want".....then in the end, after throwing a tantrum and fighting over nothing she told me, "you just want me for sex"....this coming from a woman who demanded sex practically every time we saw each other....

 

Now how ****ed is all that?....

 

I'm sorry it's painful I know. NO matter what side you are on. I think that is what hurts. When you feel you what you have/had was one sided. When you feel used discarded....I think that is the worst feeling that comes from all of this.

[Chica80]

No, they are all the same, don't you see? Of course Blues, Jenks and Out seem like nice guys (and I am not saying they are not) but they are like my H in that it all depends on what side you are on. We are not emotionally involved. All the guys have a wife they love and never had any intention of leaving them. All have an OW who lost. Some are 100% nicer to the OW than others, there is definitely a scale of d*ckness, totally and you are correct, my xmm was at the ding, ding ding, you are a complete d*ck, and yes, Jenks and Out sound like pretty good mm but doesn't that make it worse in a way? The other woman never stood a chance.

 

 

And you know in your heart it is true. Sunshine - didn't the guy go and married another woman while being with you? These guys are using us. You have to see that. That is what DKG is saying and no one is listening.

 

We can't change the male gender, so it starts with us. We have to change.

 

I am not being mean. I've been here with you for a year now. I say this with kindness - don't we all as women deserve more than this?

 

 

MB I think both people use though. I can't sit here and say oh he just used me. When I knowingly willingly got involved with someone else. I was married he was not. I betrayed my marriage, I did that not him. Regardless if I feel I had reason to or not, if it was justified or not. I made that choice, not my exH, not MM. I chose that.

Just like he made a choice. For whatever reason that may be he made that choice.

 

I know there are things we don't agree on. We don't see everything the same way.

 

But yes I agree with you 100%. We deserve more we deserve better. All I was trying to convey is everything is not always so black and white good or bad hero or villain. People are flawed we are not perfect.

 

They are not all the same. Otherwise you could say OW are all the same. That your husband is the same as MM? I really highly doubt that.

 

I agree with DK, on this point, you are going to a dark place.

 

To me it seems a form of rug sweeping. Oh all MM are the same. Men are all the same they just want to use me......It ties it up in a nice little box that somehow explains all the pain away.

That's it that's what it all means, so I'm going to put it all in this angry hurt box because that solves all the answers. I don't believe healing works that way. Just my opinion.....

Edited December 2, 2016 by Sunshinechica

[MidnightBlue1980]

MB I think both people use though. I can't sit here and say oh he just used me. When I knowingly willingly got involved with someone else. I was married he was not. I betrayed my marriage, I did that not him. Regardless if I feel I had reason to or not, if it was justified or not. I made that choice, not my exH, not MM. I chose that.

Just like he made a choice. For whatever reason that may be he made that choice.

 

I know there are things we don't agree on. We don't see everything the same way.

 

But yes I agree with you 100%. We deserve more we deserve better. All I was trying to convey is everything is not always so black and white good or bad hero or villain. People are flawed we are not perfect.

 

They are not all the same. Otherwise you could say OW are all the same. That your husband is the same as MM? I really highly doubt that.

 

I agree with DK, on this point, you are going to a dark place.

 

To me it seems a form of rug sweeping. Oh all MM are the same. Men are all the same they just want to use me......It ties it up in a nice little box that somehow explains all the pain away.

That's it that's what it all means, so I'm going to put it all in this angry hurt box because that solves all the answers. I don't believe healing works that way. Just my opinion.....

 

Well, it's mixed up for me because I had to suffer a lot of lies and harassment this year from him. Unlike some of the posters who just never see the person again, I had to deal with the carnage for a whole year. Now of course this was my choice to stay there, and I'm not sure it was the right decision in hindsight, there are pros and cons to how I played it out.

 

But my feelings are not really about the fact that he did not want to leave his wife last year and was only interested in an affair, because after all, he said that upfront. I am aware it was me who spun it in my mind and because he said he loved me, I thought.....things had changed in his mind. But they hadn't and that was all me, because frankly I never was able to handle a casual sexual relationship. I get very attached, fast, and I should have remembered that about myself, but after 10 years of marriage, you just forget. So it was me that changed the rules and the expectations, not him. He was content to be in our marriages and have a LTA, he literally told me in the beginning that it was what he had been looking for the last 5 years.

 

But - he really should not have love bombed me to get what he wanted, that was not nice, he obviously did exactly what DKG3 said, and I think he is a real a*shole.

 

I'm not rug sweeping. 2016 was horrible. He was obnoxious, boasting to me about how he lied to his wife in MC, feeding me all these lies all year, one after the other. Then refusing to leave me alone, tormenting me to the extent where he was ccing other people to try and force me to respond. Coming right up to me even when I asked, please leave me alone.

 

But what really pissed me off was how he would laugh about how stupid his wife was and how of course she did not know the truth and he lied to her, and then got pissed at me for not wanting to be friends. So now that she knows the entire story - since the dumba*s put it in writing (such arrogance) - I'm really not mad anymore. Yes, he did use me but I allowed it. But he got his.

 

I do think the people who get into these things are all the same to varying degrees. They all have unaddressed issues and lack of boundaries. Both genders. Obviously not all people are the same. But since you mentioned my H, his xOW hates his guts. Now he was not sociopathic like xmm but he lovebombed her. He actually ran into her the same day I saw xmm for the last time. She turned her back on him and he ignored her and walked by her. She ran out of the store and drove away. I said, that is really immature, you are the bad guy here, you could have been an adult and just said hello. But he said - I hate her forever.

 

So maybe I should say all these affairs are the same to varying degrees. 99% of the time everyone gets hurt. Someone feels used. This is just my opinion.

 

I may be in a dark place, I am not sure. Or maybe I just see things a lot more clearly than I did before. I do not hate men at all, not even xmm. I like men. Men are great. I have a lot of male business friends and clients. I have a good male friend and I have a son. But I am just not so stupid anymore.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Blue, you've got a point about us in general......if we are dicks or nice which one is worse to lose to?....both really because in the end we all lose on both side.....seems the pain of what ever we started is all we have left in the end except the rare few that get together and make it work.

 

If she never said she wanted a real life with you and asked you to leave, that is a bad sign, I agree. I lasted 5 months before I put it on the line, and you were with her 7 years? It does show she was happy in what you had and not looking to take it to real life. As someone on the receiving end of that, I know the pain and I can hardly imagine 7 years invested. Now that I have read more and understand more, I can see why you are so upset. Do you still have to see her at work?

[MidnightBlue1980]

You are actually pretty close. I really wish more women could hear male conversations about love relationships and thier women. There is definitely two groups, ones you marry and ones you have "fun" with. Why each woman is which to each guy is really a mystery.

 

 

 

Midnight, I sense you going to a dark place. I think your issue is thinking that it had to be all or nothing. Either MM was totally vested, ready to walk away with you or you were crap on the bottom of his shoe.

 

I think where so many MW/OW get crossed isn't so much with his behavior, but his behavior against your expectations of him being wonderboy. These thoughts that he is some kind of perfect man, perfect fit is ridiculous. What woman dreams as a girl/young lady to share a dream man with his wife and kids? Really. What 17 year old dreams of a guy who can lie to his wife, steal time from his kids, risk thier well being?

 

When you step back and look at the totality of it all its absolutely ridiculous.

 

Well, I made it all or nothing. I am aware people here are happily in LTAs for years and that was what he wanted, but it wasn't for me. I guess I was the one who changed the rules.

 

I do agree it seems insane that I wanted us to be together. I really barely knew him at all outside of a weekly hello and a few dates. In hindsight, he really was the wiser one. He just made a serious bad error in judgement picking me because I am crazy. Not crazy like killing his dog or stalking him crazy but I get attached immediately and hang on indefinitely. He should have picked a more casual person.

 

I am aware now that he and I just wanted different things. It was just the year of torture that killed me. But it was choice to stay there.