Is Narcissism a real thing? Or does everyone have a little?

[wiseman6716]

Been reading about Narcissism and curious what everyone's thoughts are? I admit I am guilty of some characteristics, but then again from what I see who isn't?

[amaysngrace]

I'm pretty sure we mostly all have self-love but that's totally different than being so self-absorbed that you completely lack even a teeny bit of empathy.

[Redhead14]

Been reading about Narcissism and curious what everyone's thoughts are? I admit I am guilty of some characteristics, but then again from what I see who isn't?

 

Self-love is a healthy and necessary part of the relationship you have with yourself and others. Narcissism is malignant self-love. While it may appear to others that a narcissist is in love with themselves, there is self-loathing under that mask. Everyone has some narcissist traits that are healthy, but that doesn't make them a narcissist in the diagnosable sense. Oftentimes, people who are viewed or claim to be narcissists aren't true narcissists. They wear the mask of narcissism for protection but the underlying issue is something else altogether.

 

As long as you have the ability to empathize, it is very unlikely that you are a narcissist. Narcissists do not have the capacity to empathize. That is a hallmark of diagnosable narcissism. Narcissism in it's true form is actually pretty rare, but it's out there.

[PrincessWarrior1]

Self-love is a healthy and necessary part of the relationship you have with yourself and others. Narcissism is malignant self-love. While it may appear to others that a narcissist is in love with themselves, there is self-loathing under that mask. Everyone has some narcissist traits that are healthy, but that doesn't make them a narcissist in the diagnosable sense. Oftentimes, people who are viewed or claim to be narcissists aren't true narcissists. They wear the mask of narcissism for protection but the underlying issue is something else altogether.

 

As long as you have the ability to empathize, it is very unlikely that you are a narcissist. Narcissists do not have the capacity to empathize. That is a hallmark of diagnosable narcissism. Narcissism in it's true form is actually pretty rare, but it's out there

 

I've done a lot of reading on the subject myself. As I was in a crazy relationship would have been 3 years this October 30th but I have gone NC yet again. After I realized he has no morals whatsoever and I can't keep putting myself through the severe pain and depression. Also doing a number on my self esteem and just entire life like that. I thought things would get better if I hung in there but... it's not. It seems to have gotten worse and I basically had no choice but to redeem myself and my life before something really really serious happens like he gets me pregnant or gives me an STD or I lose my job!! If anyone has anything to add or could give some support in this thread I would really appreciate it. I'm only 30 days NC in person and 1 week via phone. I really need help with this.

 

I just can't understand how he treats me so badly after all I have done for him. I'm a really goo d person and also have a pretty face and nice thick petite frame. Not that that matters but.. He is just awful. I don't know why I chased him or allowed it for so long. I need to get strong enough or at the very least the uprotected sex is out the window. Everything special I thought we had or everything I thought he was is gone. I should not even be thinking about sex with him. I'm not even suppose to be thinking about responding when he calls. I am so weak and it scares me.

Edited October 27, 2016 by PrincessWarrior1

[Been]

Just remember that you can't trust him and how badly he treated you. You really want to date him again always looking over your shoulder?Always wondering WHEN he's gonna start cheating on you ?

Because it could have gone worse-he could have given you an std and then what would you have done?

[SpiralOut]

Everyone has some narcissistic traits. It's not a problem unless it goes further up the scale and becomes more severe. If you were severely narcissistic, you would not even consider the idea that you might have a problem.

[darkmoon]

Narcissists pick their victim, are in control, my one grovels to the boss, while I get abused, fortunately, our boss sees her as the problem, her antics are easy to mock, tbh

[Redhead14]

I've done a lot of reading on the subject myself. As I was in a crazy relationship would have been 3 years this October 30th but I have gone NC yet again. After I realized he has no morals whatsoever and I can't keep putting myself through the severe pain and depression. Also doing a number on my self esteem and just entire life like that. I thought things would get better if I hung in there but... it's not. It seems to have gotten worse and I basically had no choice but to redeem myself and my life before something really really serious happens like he gets me pregnant or gives me an STD or I lose my job!! If anyone has anything to add or could give some support in this thread I would really appreciate it. I'm only 30 days NC in person and 1 week via phone. I really need help with this.

 

I just can't understand how he treats me so badly after all I have done for him. I'm a really good person and also have a pretty face and nice thick petite frame. Not that that matters but.. He is just awful. I don't know why I chased him or allowed it for so long. I need to get strong enough or at the very least the uprotected sex is out the window. Everything special I thought we had or everything I thought he was is gone. I should not even be thinking about sex with him. I'm not even suppose to be thinking about responding when he calls. I am so weak and it scares me.

 

He treats you badly because he has no empathy, no ability to understand or relate to how another person feels. You really do need to keep moving forward and do not entertain any communication to or from him.

 

If he is truly a narcissist, you must not communicate with him. They are very crafty and manipulative. They can make another person feel as if they are going crazy and doubt themselves. This is a tool of a true narcissist. They have an amazing way of spinning things and deflecting problems away from themselves and onto the other person. This is a dangerous person, in fact.

 

Regardless of whether he is a true narcissist, the fact remains that you are not happy and he doesn't treat you well. That is all you need realize and accept to be able to maintain your position and keep moving on. Be RESOLVED. Just pull all the strength you have up and tell yourself over and over again -- "I deserve better". Say that to yourself as soon as you get up everyday. Be Nike -- "Just Do It".

 

I don't know why I chased him or allowed it for so long. -- You need to dig deep and think about what the answer to this question is. It's important to figure out so that you don't find yourself in this position again with anyone else, regardless of any issues or conditions they may or may not have. Why do I accept bad behavior and treatment?

[GorillaTheater]

I'm not a shrink, but my understanding is that narcissism, like BPD and other personality disorders, are "spectrum" disorders. That is to say, everyone lies on the spectrum to one extent or another and have one or more of the identifying traits of the disorder. But you wouldn't be diagnosed with any particular personality disorder until you've hit a certain number of those traits.

[Redhead14]

Diagnosis is made when a person exhibits one or more associated traits and their behavior creates dysfunction and disruption in one or more areas of their lives . . .

[Bialy]

There's a difference between full-on narcissism and having narcissistic tendencies.

[oldshirt]

narcissism is probably real but at the moment it is go-to diagnosis for anything that people don't like. Narcissism and borderline personality disorder are being blamed for everything from infidelity to cheating on math tests to foot fungus and God knows what else.

 

In years past bad behavior was blamed on demons and witches and Satanists and communists etc etc and now any time someone doesn't like someone else's behavior they blame it on narcissism and borderline personality disorder.

 

If you've ever been to chumplady dot com, they blame every single guy that's ever looked cross ways at another woman as being a narcissist.

 

narcissism is probably real, but no where near as prevalent as what it is being blamed for today. Some times people just do bad things but it doesn't mean that they are an actual narcissist.

 

And everyone has some form or some degree of traits and characteristics of every disorder there is.

 

Mental illness and personality disorders and character flaws are all about degrees as opposed to content.

 

As an example, everyone watches TV to one degree or another. But while a normal, healthy, adjusted person may watch a few shows they like, someone with some kind of illness or disorder may watch TV 24/7 for months or years on end.

 

Because you have a trait or characteristic or a behavior doesn't make you ill or disordered. It's the degree of that trait or characteristic or behavior that does.

[michaelm700]

I think we all stroke our egos more than is realistic at times. In a way I think it may be necessary to get anywhere in life. We have all known people who unrealistically rock star themselves. Some can still be kind, likable and effective. It can even be comical and endearing in ways. The problem is when we become incapable of doing wrong to the point of distorting reality or abusing others to protect a false self image. I think Donald Trump is a good example.

 

I think also an unrelated but often confused mental problem are sociopaths. These people have concern only for themselves at all times. But they can be very good at faking emotions, charismatic, charming and ironically good people persons and often very popular. But all to manipulate and leverage their position. Inside they are incapable of feeling. I have known people like this and always scares the hell out of me.

[Taramere]

Been reading about Narcissism and curious what everyone's thoughts are? I admit I am guilty of some characteristics, but then again from what I see who isn't?

 

Personality disorders consist, as far as I can see, common personality traits taken to unhealthy extremes. Often things that in small doses can make a person more interesting - but with the great big dollops that a personality disorder treats everybody (in the disordered person's life) to, then it just creates endless nightmare scenarios for themselves and for people who care about them.

 

I had a friend who had a very severe eating disorder, and she was certainly highly narcissistic...but that didn't make her a horrible or inconsiderate person by any stretch. She was a very sweet person, but she lacked a strong identity. A strong sense of self. The disordered behaviour is the thing that provides that person with some sense of identity. Without it, they don't know who they are. Have no sense of self...which I think is the essence of narcissism.

 

A non narcissistic person might get their sense of identity from all sorts of things. From the relationships they have, from the people they feel connected to, the music they love best, their artistic preferences, surroundings they feel most at home in and so on. The narcissistic person goes through the motions. They might select hobbies and pastimes that they feel help to identify them as a person....but often that will be about status and how they think their pastimes/things they own will result in them being perceived by others.

 

Again, it's that continuum. The teenage years are very narcissistic...with adolescents trying on different identities for size, and being incredibly preoccupied with how others perceive them (though at the same time professing vigorously not to care how others see them). And I think any of us can revert back to that adolescent mindset in certain situations. So the fact that you can read an account of narcissism and think "that sounds like me" doesn't in itself mean you're a disordered person as opposed to a normally flawed human being.

 

In a lot of ways I think personality disorders are just a way of making people feel a bit more clinical and mature when they're insulting or sitting in judgement of others. Really, if somebody has a serious personality disorder then I don't think other people need to dig for evidence of it....because the evidence is just relentless.

[Timshel]

I had a friend who had a very severe eating disorder

 

In a lot of ways I think personality disorders are just a way of making people feel a bit more clinical and mature when they're insulting or sitting in judgement of others. Really, if somebody has a serious personality disorder then I don't think other people need to dig for evidence of it....because the evidence is just relentless.

 

Want to keep the bolded Taramere....it's so important and thank you for continuing to discuss eating disorders.

 

Find Help & Support | National Eating Disorders Association

 

Agree that suggesting a personality disorder is a common way to make a dig. Clinical diagnosis is the only way to determine any mental illness.

 

Disappointment, betrayal and perceived manipulation do not qualify a person with a particular diagnosis.

 

Autism, Asperger's are also not a catch all for a person's latest relationship disaster. Neither is socio/psycopathy. These terms are thrown around by internet psychologists and burned/hurt people.

 

Having boundaries and making a daily effort to make another person's life better....getting outside of personal need and actively helping/extending kindness/generosity for others without any need for recognition...will make a best life and protect a person from any perceived narcissist..

[truthtripper]

Narcissists do not have the capacity to empathize. That is a hallmark of diagnosable narcissism..

Beware of narcissists! They are clever at faking empathy to gain your favour. This is how they gather enablers and keep them in their grip.

[truthtripper]

Been reading about Narcissism and curious what everyone's thoughts are? I admit I am guilty of some characteristics, but then again from what I see who isn't?

I think when we are selfish, it's often driven by an intuitive primitive survival instinct, aka survival of the fittest. After all, we are animals.

[truthtripper]

Most of us have some narcissistic traits, but we do not "suffer" from NPD.

There is a vast difference between someone with NPD and the average selfish human. NPDers are sociopaths, the products of adversely dysfunctional parenting, at least one parent being an NPDer themselves.

[Taramere]

Narcissism is not black and white, it is a scale. Most of us have some narcissistic traits, but we do not "suffer" from NPD. There are tests that can be taken online that are supposed to be surprisingly accurate.

 

Here's an interesting article that aids understanding of extreme narcissism...with reference to a well known figure. Donald Trump seems to be regularly cited by leading mental health professionals as a perfect, textbook example of narcissism.

 

Is Donald Trump Actually a Narcissist? Therapists Weigh In! | Vanity Fair

 

An interview with Michael d'Antonio was more revealing than the average interview of what goes on inside.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/politics/donald-trump-interviews.html

 

 

In the interviews, which occurred in Mr. Trump’s office and apartment in Trump Tower in Manhattan, he is by turns animated and bored, boastful and stubborn when prodded toward soul-searching. “No, I don’t want to think about it,” he said when Mr. D’Antonio asked him to contemplate the meaning of his life. “I don’t like to analyze myself because I might not like what I see.”

 

He's absorbed with staying in the public eye, keeping attention on him, avoiding the terrible shame and failure of becoming a "has been" (ie no longer of interest to the public), intensely contemptuous of people who he regards as failures or has-beens. Contemptuous, in fact, of people generally.

 

Here we have a board where there has been much focus over the years on people recovering from destructive or even abusive relationships. On promoting healthy relationships, learning to distance oneself from negative people and so on. And yet there's intense approval among a number of people on this board for a presidential candidate who absolutely epitomises narcissistic personality disorder in the views of very credible specialists in that area. That's pretty fascinating, and I think it exemplifies a love/hate relationship - in the US in particular - with narcissism.

 

Perhaps the issue of narcissistic personality disorder is about to be tested out in a very big way. Put a country which fluctuates between celebrating narcissism and feeling plagued by it under the leadership of a man who according to mental health professionals is a very extreme version of narcissism...and see whether it flourishes or fails. It's quite an experiment, and I think a lot of people probably do harbour some curiosity, despite themselves, to see how an experiment like that would actually turn out. Most of us who have posted on here for a long time, and have seen the many "don't walk away from a narcissist - run!" threads that proliferate can probably take a pretty good guess.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Taramere

[Sunkissedpatio]

Narcissism and self-love are not the same thing.

 

Self-love often pushes us to do what is best for us and others. Through self-love we can actually love others and with self-love also comes humility.

 

Narcissism on the other hand is an arrogant preoccupation with the self that feels superior to everyone one else and feels entitled to things that either hurt us and/or others.

 

We all experience some level of narcissism but true narcissists are made almost entirely of this self-involving attitude and have no capacity for empathy.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Beware of narcissists! They are clever at faking empathy to gain your favour. This is how they gather enablers and keep them in their grip.

 

Oh you know my ex too?

[Timshel]

So profoundly agree with the entire post Taramere....won't say more 'cuz there's a thread for that.

 

To the OP, it seems that NPD according to the latest DSM, is becoming increasingly difficult to separate from a general population of self-adoring, opportunistic individuals who capitalize on the basic human instinct to dominant/conquer/exert superiority over 'others.'

Conversely, they exploit themselves for person's who are impressed by being exploited. { Attention}

 

As an example, a narcissist who is rejected by a group who has legitimate power would not accept this rejection, instead decide if you can't join them, beat them.

 

On the surface it would seem that the underdog is taking on the bully/status quo. In the case of a narcissist personality, however, they have been rejected for good reason...they are not the underdog, rather the bully.

 

A narcissist is only pissed and more determined...not to change the status quo as an underdog...but to become the status quo as revenge.

[Herbalist]

I think the term "narcissism" was originally derived from that mythological story about that guy named Narcissist who was totally obsessed with his own appearance, and so it originally was meant to describe people who were obsessed with their looks.

 

Then there is what psychology likes to call "healthy narcissism" which is basically just having an ounce of self-respect.

 

Which makes it confusing since then there is narcissism in the context of Narcissistic Personality Disorder where the person actually has a very fragile and weak ego subconsciously and tries to compensate for it with grandiose delusions about themselves as being perfect in one or more ways.

 

Which gets even more confused by all the misinformation on the internet like articles claiming to be about narcissists but then actually going on to describe psychopaths, even though narcissism and psychopathy are completely different issues.

[thecrucible]

I certainly know people who are very self-involved and it does irritate me. For me these are people who don't take a genuine interest in you but what they can gain from you. I also think that people without enough experience of it can't spot them. It can sometimes irritate me more that people don't see them for who they are.

 

However although I know people I consider self-involved, I don't consider that they fit the clinical diagnosis of a narcissist. It's good to have some perspective on it! Whether a diagnosed narcissist or not, I've learned that people who are that self-involved don't change but you find a way to tolerate them.

[truthtripper]

Oh you know my ex too?

Perhaps your ex and my ex should get together!