Is Narcissism a real thing? Or does everyone have a little?

November 2, 2016

Here's an interesting article that aids understanding of extreme narcissism...with reference to a well known figure. Donald Trump seems to be regularly cited by leading mental health professionals as a perfect, textbook example of narcissism.

Is Donald Trump Actually a Narcissist? Therapists Weigh In! | Vanity Fair

An interview with Michael d'Antonio was more revealing than the average interview of what goes on inside.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/26/us/politics/donald-trump-interviews.html

He's absorbed with staying in the public eye, keeping attention on him, avoiding the terrible shame and failure of becoming a "has been" (ie no longer of interest to the public), intensely contemptuous of people who he regards as failures or has-beens. Contemptuous, in fact, of people generally.

Here we have a board where there has been much focus over the years on people recovering from destructive or even abusive relationships. On promoting healthy relationships, learning to distance oneself from negative people and so on. And yet there's intense approval among a number of people on this board for a presidential candidate who absolutely epitomises narcissistic personality disorder in the views of very credible specialists in that area. That's pretty fascinating, and I think it exemplifies a love/hate relationship - in the US in particular - with narcissism.

Perhaps the issue of narcissistic personality disorder is about to be tested out in a very big way. Put a country which fluctuates between celebrating narcissism and feeling plagued by it under the leadership of a man who according to mental health professionals is a very extreme version of narcissism...and see whether it flourishes or fails. It's quite an experiment, and I think a lot of people probably do harbour some curiosity, despite themselves, to see how an experiment like that would actually turn out. Most of us who have posted on here for a long time, and have seen the many "don't walk away from a narcissist - run!" threads that proliferate can probably take a pretty good guess.

Trump is not a narcissist. He puts his political incorrectness and contempt of people on display. This is only going to repulse the majority of voters. There is no manipulation or scheming going on here. He's just a stupid loud mouth who happens to own a lot of money. His money alone is certainly not going to be enough to gain him presidency. A narcissist hides their true feelings and such negative aspects of themselves to gain power. It's only when they have won the power, that they reveal their true colours.

November 2, 2016

Trump is not a narcissist. He puts his political incorrectness and contempt of people on display. This is only going to repulse the majority of voters. There is no manipulation or scheming going on here. He's just a stupid loud mouth who happens to own a lot of money. His money alone is certainly not going to be enough to gain him presidency. A narcissist hides their true feelings and such negative aspects of themselves to gain power. It's only when they have won the power, that they reveal their true colours.

I'm not aware of anything in the criteria used to assess narcissism that talks of people hiding these traits until they attain some sort of power. Maybe there are people who do, and perhaps you've dealt with such a person, but I've never heard of that being regarded as a defining trait. In fact, the desire to diagnose Trump seems to be causing some divisions in the psychiatric profession, with the APA calling on members to stop doing it. Not necessarily because they're wrong, but because it's unethical for people in the profession to publicly make a diagnosis without actually examining somebody (what people say in private is another matter)

https://www.rt.com/usa/355006-diagnose-trump-mental-ill/

I'm guessing you've had a profoundly negative experience with somebody who you believe had narcissistic personality disorder, and your opinion about this subject is perhaps strongly influenced by that particular person and how they conducted themselves. But when people have personality disorders, the problems they encounter in life are in large part because the traits associated with those disorders are so pervasive within their life and so strongly in evidence that they continually run into problems with other people...and it's very hard for others not to pick up that there's something awry with the person.

In the case of Donald Trump, narcissistic traits work well for him. He presented behavioural problems from an early age and was packed off to military academy. In the case of boys from poorer backgrounds, those behavioural problems might get them in trouble with the authorities from an early age, because they're not shielded from consequences in the way that children from wealthier backgrounds often are. Somebody who's been brought up with wealth and who doesn't have to learn or suck up/disguise their more narcissistic aspects in order to get what they need in order to survive (or in order to stay out of prison) may not really need to learn to conceal their narcissistic elements.

Donald Trump didn't need to. Narcissistic behaviour worked well for him in terms of steamrolling his way over people in the business world, talking banks into treating him as "too big to fail" when he was in major financial problems and so on. You would usually expect a politician to work harder to disguise their narcissism. After all, success in politics is about being able to work with a wide range of advisers, experts, community leaders and so on. It's also about persuading voters that the politician empathises with them and their problems. Donald Trump is an extremely unusual candidate in terms of the narcissism being on full display...but a lot of people overlook it in a way that they wouldn't usually in politicians, and I suspect they do so because even though he's now firmly ensconsed in the political sphere, they continue to see him primarily as a businessman. Therefore as a private businessman they're prepared to extend him the benefit of the doubt (corruption, ruthlessness, narcissism etc is okay in a private businessman, but not in a public servant) that they wouldn't extend to people who have been politicians for most of their adult lives.

That he's now ahead in some polls, at this final stage, suggests that a lot of people out there aren't as repelled by these traits as you expect them to be. I might be repelled by them, and you might too - but a hell of a lot of people out there are evidently impressed by the guy. Just think of how a lot of very blatantly narcissistic men out there are surprisingly successful with women and also in terms of attracting admiration from other men. Far from hiding it, they flaunt it - though they'll often combine it with little displays of empathy and kindness here as a bait and switch thing.

I was defending a case against a party litigant who was strongly narcissistic and has a history of using the court process as a way of attacking other people or gaining control over them. I wish I could publish this guy's pleadings, I really do. It would be a real case of "okay here's some real narcissism and what it looks like". There's no question of him hiding these traits, because in his world he's vastly superior both intellectually and morally to everybody else, even as he presents arguments which opponents, the court, the appeal court etc perceives as indicative of a very unpleasant character who's strongly lacking in self awareness. If he were wealthy and successful like Trump, he'd likely be surrounded by admirers. Even the court, I have to say, would probably take him more seriously (well for a start, he'd be represented by a professional rather than representing himself abysmally). As it is, even though he's not wealthy at all he still seems to have a small circle of people around him who dote on, encourage and support him in this nonsense.

People often celebrate the narcissism of those they admire or aspire to being. There are characters like the Pick up artist Roosh (probably not wealthy, but with a certain amount of influence coming from internet celebrity), who has an army of fans precisely because he's such an obnoxious person. It's really not all that unusual for people to attract a lot of admiration and followers as a result of traits which would, in normal adult circles, tend to be regarded as highly negative. Especially in a world where a lot of communication is conducted anonymously and via the internet. The more admirers a person seems to have, the more people are going to be attracted to them. It's that herd instinct. Or, as PUA types like to call it, "social proof".

Of course, when the admirers eventually get burned by them, the admiration often turns into pretty intense hatred...but somebody who is impulsive and very much living in the here and now rather than worrying much about what's going to happen in a few years time isn't going to spend much time dwelling on those sorts of outcomes. When it happens, they'll just switch to the next project and the next group of adoring fans.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Taramere

November 2, 2016

I'm not aware of anything in the criteria used to assess narcissism that talks of people hiding these traits until they attain some sort of power. Maybe there are people who do, and perhaps you've dealt with such a person, but I've never heard of that being regarded as a defining trait.

In fact, the desire to diagnose Trump seems to be causing some divisions in the psychiatric profession, with the APA calling on members to stop doing it. Not necessarily because they're wrong, but because it's unethical for people in the profession to publicly make a diagnosis without actually examining somebody (what people say in private is another matter)

https://www.rt.com/usa/355006-diagnose-trump-mental-ill/

I'm guessing you've had a profoundly negative experience with somebody who you believe had narcissistic personality disorder, and your opinion about this subject is perhaps strongly influenced by that particular person and how they conducted themselves. But when people have personality disorders, the problems they encounter in life are in large part because the traits associated with those disorders are so pervasive within their life that it's very hard for others not to pick up that there's something strange of "off" about that person.

I had a boyfriend who had strongly narcissistic traits which on the whole I was able to dismiss as him being "silly" or a bit embarrassing (the grandiosity and so on - I just thought he was putting it on to amuse others, which I think in part he was). He switched to being extremely unpleasant when we split up, but people often do. They struggle with managing conflict, break up situations and so on..and therefore they turn nasty or shut down etc. Which is of course very different from how they are when everything's going well, when relationships are in "easy for them to manage" mode and they're in a good mood.

But that's just part of how a lot of people manage interpersonal difficulties - whether or not they have a personality disorder. Conflict is a hard thing to manage. Some people are naturally good at dealing with it, but most people have to work quite hard to learn the skills to manage it. Since a lot of traits deemed to be narcissistic are traits that you'll quite often find in men (just as "histrionic" traits are more associated, whether we like it or not, with stereotypically female traits) I think it's particularly tempting for women to attach that "narcissistic" label to men who have let them down. And particularly when the man in question has handled conflict or a break up very poorly. Or when friends and relatives express the "always thought he was a bit off" view. But really I don't think a person could be fairly assessed based on isolated incidents in their life where they managed situations poorly or maliciously. Mental health professionals look for traits that are pervasive and that impact on all areas of a person's life. However hard a person's relatively isolated bad behaviour was on another person/former romantic partner, unless it crossed the line into criminal behaviour I don't think that isolated bad behaviour is likely to be viewed (by an objective professional) as enough to label a person for life.

In the case of Donald Trump, narcissistic traits work well for him. He presented behavioural problems from an early age and was packed off to military academy. In the case of boys from poorer backgrounds, those behavioural problems might get them in trouble with the authorities from an early age, because they're not shielded from consequences in the way that children from wealthier backgrounds often are.

Somebody who's been brought up with wealth and who doesn't have to learn or suck up/disguise their more narcissistic aspects in order to get what they need in order to survive (or in order to stay out of prison) may not really need to learn to conceal their narcissistic elements. Donald Trump didn't need to. Narcissistic behaviour worked well for him in terms of steamrolling his way over people in the business world, talking banks into treating him as "too big to fail" when he was in major financial problems and so on.

In the realms of politics, you would usually expect a person to work harder to disguise their narcissism. After all, success in politics is about being able to work with a wide range of advisers, experts, community leaders and so on. It's also about persuading voters that the politician empathises with them and their problems. Donald Trump is an extremely unusual candidate in terms of the narcissism being on full display...but a lot of people overlook it in a way that they wouldn't usually in politicians, and I suspect they do so because of the "he's not a politician, he's a businessman" thing.

My grandfather was a narcissist and so is my mother, which explains why my ex was also a narcissist. One strong common trait among them, was concealing their abusive behaviour to people outside the home environment. They were so polite and gracious to people they needed to impress, but when they came home, they would revert, like Jekyll and Hyde. If I was to tell their acquaintances what they were like at home, no one would believe me.

Whatever Trump is, he will soon learn that his wealth can't buy him everything he wants.

November 2, 2016

My grandfather was a narcissist and so is my mother, which explains why my ex was also a narcissist. One strong common trait among them, was concealing their abusive behaviour to people outside the home environment. They were so polite and gracious to people they needed to impress, but when they came home, they would revert, like Jekyll and Hyde. If I was to tell their acquaintances what they were like at home, no one would believe me.

I can understand how appalling that must have been to deal with, and I think it's the terrible feature of an abusive childhood. That the adult is plausible and, well, an adult (with all the power that comes from being an adult). That would be a hard, hard thing to recover from.

I don't know if you've heard of Jimmy Savile, but he was a household name in the UK for as long as most people there can remember. I don't know anybody who was ever actually a fan of the guy, or regarded him as anything other than a particularly creepy celebrity, but he did tons of work for charity, was friendly with the Royal family, leading politicians and so on.

He's now dead, and his memory is surrounded with the scandal of him appearing to have been one of the most prolific child abusers ever. It's a very long and unpleasant story - especially given the number of years he spent at the centre of British society. This Guardian commentary is quite explicit, so don't read it if you're easily triggered by references to child abuse - but it does explore Jimmy Savile's apparent narcissism. In his case, it's kind of like narcissism was the front man - the gaudily dressed showman - and psychopathy was what lay underneath.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/26/inside-the-mind-of-jimmy-savile

I didn't know what narcissism was, as a child, but if you had told me and then asked "is Jimmy Savile a narcissist?" I'm sure I'd have said "oh yeah - he's definitely one." Just the way he dressed, conducted himself - the weird, prosaic way he talked. He wasn't a regular sort of guy. But rather than "narcissist" people who were creeped out by him or just disliked him as a tv personality would have used words like....well, all the words you'd normally use for somebody like that are banned on here. Douchebag maybe? Wanker?

Something a lot of people said about him, when the stories all came to the fore, was that he'd been "hiding in plain sight". He'd never attempted to hide his strangeness and his narcissism. In fact, he'd always celebrated it. If anything, doing that seemed to throw people off the scent. However strangely, inappropriately or creepily he behaved, it would be "oh, that's just Jimmy."

I worked with a guy a bit like that (ie creepy, narcissistic - he was always yapping on about various "Machiavellian" tactics he employed in dealing with other people) years ago. He was pretty stalkerish and often touched me inappropriately. I thought he was sad and pathetic rather than a genuine threat, but remember him turning up at my flat on my day off and trying to persuade me to let him in (I refused). When I tried to talk to colleagues about him, they'd be all "oh, that's just X". Again, most people just saw him as a bit pathetic more than being genuine cause for concern. Years later, he was fired for his behaviour. But who and what he was was never concealed. People just didn't seem to take it seriously - and I think in part, that's because he was so blatant with it.

So it can work either way. Some people will present a completely different, plausible, very socially acceptable face to the world and be somebody entirely different behind closed doors. Others won't hide their strangeness, but in a sense people will be seduced into thinking that because they're not hiding their strange aspects, they can't be hiding anything darker.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Taramere

November 2, 2016

. A narcissist hides their true feelings and such negative aspects of themselves to gain power. It's only when they have won the power, that they reveal their true colours.

That's been my experience as well. My ex's ex-wife had deep narcissistic traits as well, you can tell just by looking at her FaceBook page that she is deeply self-involved, feels superior to everyone else and loves constant attention. A 50 something year old woman who changes her profile picture weekly. Needs constant attention while playing the caring, empathetic type, posting daily affirmations of positivity, and a zen life while behind closed doors she is a greedy, selfish woman who has 0 time for her kids and is convinced everyone is jealous of her or wants to be her.

My ex on the other hand was a wolf in Mother Theresa's clothing. He felt superior to everyone behind closed doors. His need for approval and for admiration was a bottomless, draining pit and because of this his drive to appear caring and doting in front of others was fundamental to his goals.

He could be rude and quite curt to unattractive service staff and charming to good looking ones (what can you do for me)

He was incapable of accepting any form of criticism and highly reactive to this. Anything that remotely resembled an opinion that suggested he was "less than" or could do something differently would bring out the wrath in him. His #1 priority was to appear like he was the most giving, understanding, and self-less person you will ever meet (and he was those things but it all came with a price), because behind closed doors he will rip your character to shreds when he had just acted like he liked you.

His lack of empathy at times knew no bounds. He was in a position of power at work and he would share stories with me about his staff where I would try to make him see the other side of the situation because left to his own devices he would eliminate without second thought anyone who didn't fit his interpretation of "an ideal employee" not caring if someone was going through personal hardships outside of work.

He was convinced he knew better than 95% of the people at his work. He was extremely intelligent and driven and very charming but felt he was the only one who knew anything worth noting.

My experience and understanding of true narcissistic traits is that because of their deep need for acceptance and need to feel like their character and performance are superior to everyone else, they must keep up a front to be well liked because the worst thing you can do to someone who is narcissistic is tell them they are not good at something. They can dish it out but can’t take it at ALL.

And to add to the cliche that this man was, he left me at the worst possible time in terms of personal family issues I was dealing with that took me away from him, to find out he had move on to someone else he met at work.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

November 2, 2016

This explains it best right down to the upbringing characteristics which are to a T my ex's upbringing experiences.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201110/the-narcissists-dilemma-they-can-dish-it-out

November 2, 2016

I can understand how appalling that must have been to deal with, and I think it's the terrible feature of an abusive childhood. That the adult is plausible and, well, an adult (with all the power that comes from being an adult). That would be a hard, hard thing to recover from.

I don't know if you've heard of Jimmy Savile, but he was a household name in the UK for as long as most people there can remember. I don't know anybody who was ever actually a fan of the guy, or regarded him as anything other than a particularly creepy celebrity, but he did tons of work for charity, was friendly with the Royal family, leading politicians and so on.

He's now dead, and his memory is surrounded with the scandal of him appearing to have been one of the most prolific child abusers ever. It's a very long and unpleasant story - especially given the number of years he spent at the centre of British society. This Guardian commentary is quite explicit, so don't read it if you're easily triggered by references to child abuse - but it does explore Jimmy Savile's apparent narcissism. In his case, it's kind of like narcissism was the front man - the gaudily dressed showman - and psychopathy was what lay underneath.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/26/inside-the-mind-of-jimmy-savile

I didn't know what narcissism was, as a child, but if you had told me and then asked "is Jimmy Savile a narcissist?" I'm sure I'd have said "oh yeah - he's definitely one." Just the way he dressed, conducted himself - the weird, prosaic way he talked. He wasn't a regular sort of guy. But rather than "narcissist" people who were creeped out by him or just disliked him as a tv personality would have used words like....well, all the words you'd normally use for somebody like that are banned on here. Douchebag maybe? Wanker?

Something a lot of people said about him, when the stories all came to the fore, was that he'd been "hiding in plain sight". He'd never attempted to hide his strangeness and his narcissism. In fact, he'd always celebrated it. If anything, doing that seemed to throw people off the scent. However strangely, inappropriately or creepily he behaved, it would be "oh, that's just Jimmy."

I worked with a guy a bit like that (ie creepy, narcissistic - he was always yapping on about various "Machiavellian" tactics he employed in dealing with other people) years ago. He was pretty stalkerish and often touched me inappropriately. I thought he was sad and pathetic rather than a genuine threat, but remember him turning up at my flat on my day off and trying to persuade me to let him in (I refused). When I tried to talk to colleagues about him, they'd be all "oh, that's just X". Again, most people just saw him as a bit pathetic more than being genuine cause for concern. Years later, he was fired for his behaviour. But who and what he was was never concealed. People just didn't seem to take it seriously - and I think in part, that's because he was so blatant with it.

So it can work either way. Some people will present a completely different, plausible, very socially acceptable face to the world and be somebody entirely different behind closed doors. Others won't hide their strangeness, but in a sense people will be seduced into thinking that because they're not hiding their strange aspects, they can't be hiding anything darker.

Well, there's a big difference between being strange and being a narcissist. That weird guy you mentioned sounds more like he's been abused in childhood(which he's probably in denial about) and isn't all that self-aware, which has got him into trouble.

Narcissists constantly regulate their behaviour according to who is in their presence. They test people to find out what kinds of abusive behaviour they can get away with. Obviously no one objected to his abuse of children, it was accepted. In fact at that time, people were ignorant of child abuse. Most people hadn't even heard of the word, paedophilia. Savile used this to his advantage.

Narcissists are basically defined by their enablers. Their entire existence depends on them, so narcissists cannot afford to let their masks slip. If they feel they are losing their grip on an enabler, they will swiftly desert them and readily find another to replace them.

Edited November 2, 2016 by truthtripper

November 3, 2016

narcissism is probably real but at the moment it is go-to diagnosis for anything that people don't like. Narcissism and borderline personality disorder are being blamed for everything from infidelity to cheating on math tests to foot fungus and God knows what else.

In years past bad behavior was blamed on demons and witches and Satanists and communists etc etc and now any time someone doesn't like someone else's behavior they blame it on narcissism and borderline personality disorder.

If you've ever been to chumplady dot com, they blame every single guy that's ever looked cross ways at another woman as being a narcissist.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

Unfortunately when relationships end - people feel their ex-partner no longer cares about their well being and that their actions are completely selfish and "narcissistic". Often with people hurt and emotions running extremely high people are capable of some pretty horrible things.

Very seldom does this actually mean in the broader context the person's personality would be classified as narcissistic by a psychologist. They are likely a pretty normal person who is simply going through a difficult breakup and not dealing with it well.

November 3, 2016

Funny thing about this I just want to see my individual counselor and she said that sometimes my narcissism gets in the way of understanding what people are telling me.... and I thought that I really wish she'd stop trying to flirt with me like that during our sessions.

November 3, 2016

Personality disorders are pervasive so you should be able to see a pattern of behaviour over their entire adulthood. And as many have said, the key trait is a lack of empathy. So cheating once and feeling terrible about it and learning how bad it feels and vowing to never do it again, is not characteristic of a narcissist. Cheating on every partner one has ever had on the other hand is very likely characteristic of a narcissist.

November 4, 2016

Funny thing about this I just want to see my individual counselor and she said that sometimes my narcissism gets in the way of understanding what people are telling me.... and I thought that I really wish she'd stop trying to flirt with me like that during our sessions.

Are you joking? If not, I can see what she means.

November 4, 2016

Are you joking? If not, I can see what she means.

Those are the best kinds of jokes aren't they?

November 5, 2016

Those are the best kinds of jokes aren't they?

Tragically comic :laugh:

November 5, 2016

Donald Trump didn't need to. Narcissistic behaviour worked well for him in terms of steamrolling his way over people in the business world, talking banks into treating him as "too big to fail" when he was in major financial problems and so on.

. . .

Just think of how a lot of very blatantly narcissistic men out there are surprisingly successful with women and also in terms of attracting admiration from other men. Far from hiding it, they flaunt it - though they'll often combine it with little displays of empathy and kindness here as a bait and switch thing.

Exactly. To the narcissist, image is everything, and they use the image that gets them what they want. Being seen as "kind and good" might work for some narcissists. Others do well with a "alpha-male" image. For Trump that includes being outspoken (which others interpret as being "honest") and successful in his business and love life. He doesn't care if he looks like a kind person or not, just so long as people see him as powerful or smart and admire him for it.

November 5, 2016

Exactly. To the narcissist, image is everything, and they use the image that gets them what they want. Being seen as "kind and good" might work for some narcissists. Others do well with a "alpha-male" image. For Trump that includes being outspoken (which others interpret as being "honest") and successful in his business and love life. He doesn't care if he looks like a kind person or not, just so long as people see him as powerful or smart and admire him for it.

A person who is blatantly politically incorrect, openly despising of others and who has been dishonest in business is not indicative of "powerful" or "smart". Socially inept, reckless and untrustworthy would be a better description-not what the average voter would consider suitable for presidency.

November 5, 2016

He doesn't care if he looks like a kind person or not, just so long as people see him as powerful or smart and admire him for it.

So you would vote for him?

November 5, 2016

A person who is blatantly politically incorrect, openly despising of others and who has been dishonest in business is not indicative of "powerful" or "smart". Socially inept, reckless and untrustworthy would be a better description-not what the average voter would consider suitable for presidency.

Well, the polls suggest that the average voter might not perceive things in the same way. People don't always use their judgement. Emotion, fear, anger - all sorts of things obstruct people's judgement.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Taramere

November 6, 2016

Well, the polls suggest that the average voter might not perceive things in the same way. People don't always use their judgement. Emotion, fear, anger - all sorts of things obstruct people's judgement.

....and the polls are also showing that most voters favour Hilary.

November 6, 2016

Exactly. To the narcissist, image is everything, and they use the image that gets them what they want. Being seen as "kind and good" might work for some narcissists. Others do well with a "alpha-male" image. For Trump that includes being outspoken (which others interpret as being "honest") and successful in his business and love life. He doesn't care if he looks like a kind person or not, just so long as people see him as powerful or smart and admire him for it.

Agree SpiralOut, Trump does require admiration also, dominance. The problem is that his narcissism surpasses his intellect.

Truthtripper...you seem to be certain that Clinton will win the election, I hope you are correct.

To the OP, romantic relationships are complex, ofcourse...as a relationship unravels, some unattractive/unflattering personality traits may rise to the surface. Some people may have a clinical diagnosis...others may be unpleasant as an incompatibility or desperation to end or maintain an unsustainable relationship.

November 7, 2016

A person who is blatantly politically incorrect, openly despising of others and who has been dishonest in business is not indicative of "powerful" or "smart".

Of course it isn't. I'm talking about the way that Trump sees himself and the way his supporters see him.

So you would vote for him?

Hell no. Not like I'll be voting, as I am not in the U.S.

Edited November 7, 2016 by SpiralOut

November 7, 2016

Of course it isn't. I'm talking about the way that Trump sees himself and the way his supporters see him.

Hell no. Not like I'll be voting, as I am not in the U.S.

The only way a narcissistic leader gains the favour of an entire nation, is to keep their mask secured. They must appear diplomatic, professional to win the peoples' trust. Trust is a necessity. A leader like Trump will only attract certain subsections of the population, who have similar values to him. This is why I don't think he's a narcissist. He's too transparent, too emotional, too honest to be labelled a narcissist.

If one of them was a narcissist, it would more likely be Hilary.

I'm not in the US either. aren't we fortunate.

Edited November 7, 2016 by truthtripper

November 7, 2016

The only way a narcissistic leader gains the favour of an entire nation, is to keep their mask secured. They must appear diplomatic, professional to win the peoples' trust. Trust is a necessity. A leader like Trump will only attract certain subsections of the population, who have similar values to him. This is why I don't think he's a narcissist. He's too transparent, too emotional, too honest to be labelled a narcissist.

If one of them was a narcissist, it would more likely be Hilary.

A few months ago, I would have agreed with you and said that a narcissistic leader must be diplomatic and professional to win the people's trust. I assumed that Trump had no chance of winning. But last time I checked the news, Hilary and Trump were pretty much tied.

Whether he's a true narcissist or not, he certainly has traits of one... like his inability to accept criticism. I don't think he's particularly honest either, though I can see how it may look that way. He says what he's thinking and doesn't hide his prejudiced opinions. However, he regularly contradicts himself and promises things that he can't follow through with. Can he truly send Hilary to jail? I seriously doubt that. Can he really build a physical wall between the US and Mexico? I doubt it. I don't know if that makes him "dishonest," exactly, but I sure as heck don't believe or trust half of what he says.

I'm not in the US either. aren't we fortunate.

Yes we are. I still can't help but worry, as my country (Canada) and the US are so closely tied together. I wonder how many Americans will follow through on their threats to move to Canada if Trump wins. I guess we will soon find out!

Edited November 7, 2016 by SpiralOut

November 8, 2016

A few months ago, I would have agreed with you and said that a narcissistic leader must be diplomatic and professional to win the people's trust. I assumed that Trump had no chance of winning. But last time I checked the news, Hilary and Trump were pretty much tied.

Whether he's a true narcissist or not, he certainly has traits of one... like his inability to accept criticism. I don't think he's particularly honest either, though I can see how it may look that way. He says what he's thinking and doesn't hide his prejudiced opinions. However, he regularly contradicts himself and promises things that he can't follow through with. Can he truly send Hilary to jail? I seriously doubt that. Can he really build a physical wall between the US and Mexico? I doubt it. I don't know if that makes him "dishonest," exactly, but I sure as heck don't believe or trust half of what he says.

Yes we are. I still can't help but worry, as my country (Canada) and the US are so closely tied together. I wonder how many Americans will follow through on their threats to move to Canada if Trump wins. I guess we will soon find out!

If we look at someone like Assad, calm, collected, professional exterior. We wouldn't expect the same person to be a mass murderer. In comparison to Assad, Trump just looks like he eats his own sh*t every morning and projectile vomits it out whenever he opens his mouth. He's a gigantic foghorn empty vessel etc. It seems like he's making up for all those toddler tantrums he was denied to express as a child.

The problem is so many Americans are desperate for money. I heard that out of the US's 350 million citizens, 200 million are under-employed or unemployed. No wonder they can't think straight.

If Trump wins(although I don't think he will) I think many Americans will move to Canada. Some of them will come here to Australia too.

November 8, 2016

If we look at someone like Assad, calm, collected, professional exterior. We wouldn't expect the same person to be a mass murderer. In comparison to Assad, Trump just looks like he eats his own sh*t every morning and projectile vomits it out whenever he opens his mouth. He's a gigantic foghorn empty vessel etc. It seems like he's making up for all those toddler tantrums he was denied to express as a child.

This made me laugh

The problem is so many Americans are desperate for money. I heard that out of the US's 350 million citizens, 200 million are under-employed or unemployed. No wonder they can't think straight.

If Trump wins(although I don't think he will) I think many Americans will move to Canada. Some of them will come here to Australia too.

Yeah, well it doesn't help that his main opponent isn't exactly popular either. If he were running up against someone like Obama, he wouldn't stand a chance. Fingers crossed for tonight!

November 8, 2016

This made me laugh

Yeah, well it doesn't help that his main opponent isn't exactly popular either. If he were running up against someone like Obama, he wouldn't stand a chance. Fingers crossed for tonight!

Oh I'm glad you find that funny, a bit of Oz humour. We've had some Trump-like characters in our parliament too, with their deluded followers. They get their moments of glory and then disappear into the nethers.

Too bad Obama can't have unlimited subsequent terms, like it can happen here.

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