Can abusers change?

[malebroken]

Can emotional abusers change if they get specific therapy?

Does anyone have any positive stories of it working n being able to continue or start a new relationship with that person?

[aurelius99]

Can emotional abusers change if they get specific therapy?

Does anyone have any positive stories of it working n being able to continue or start a new relationship with that person?

 

No, they don't change. They just modify their actions to get what they want in a different way. But their heart doesn't change. Even counsellors will say that personality disorders (especially BPD) cannot be cured because they are just part of a person's personality. I believe abuse is part of who a person is. It's not like some disease they acquire. They ARE an abuser. And, from what I've seen, abusers actually think their abusive trait is a GOOD thing. For example, a person who is an emotional bully might pride themselves in how it helps them succeed in business, etc.

 

No, they don't change. Don't even wait around for it.

[benpom]

This is like asking: do lairs change and stop lying? Then the next question is: Is there a person who has not told a single lie, not ever, not even in the earliest childhood? Does not mean every person is a liar?

[Arieswoman]

I think it would depend a great deal on why they are abusers.

 

If they have a mental health issue like Cluster B Personality Disorder then that is part of them. They can't change any more than someone with diabetes can make their pancreas work normally.

 

However, if they have become an abuser because they were abused themselves in the past and have learned to use it as a coping mechanism, there may be hope.

 

However, in order to change, the individual needs to be aware of their behaviour, own it, and want to do something about it. Now that's a tall order for an abuser who has found that their behaviour has got them what they wanted for years.

 

My ex-husband, who was guilty of low-level verbal abuse for years, originally denied his behaviour. If I complained about how upsetting his remarks were he responded "I don't upset you, you only upset yourself".

 

After we were divorced and living apart I questioned him about it again and his answer was "All my life I have said nasty things to people and wished I hadn't. I could bite my tongue off for some of the things I've said to you".

 

I asked him why he did it and he said he didn't know.

 

I said "Well, she (affair partner) can put up with your nasty remarks now can't she?"

 

He said "Yes, she knows how nasty I can be".

 

So that's your answer. These people know exactly what they are doing but mostly aren't prepared to do anything about it.

 

If someone walks out on them they just go and find another target, rather than modify their actions.

[Poe77]

Can emotional abusers change if they get specific therapy?

Does anyone have any positive stories of it working n being able to continue or start a new relationship with that person?

 

I think it depends on a few things some times people abuse because they were also abused in the past so its a learned thing some can do it with out even really knowing they are continuing the cycle. Now IF that person can truly come to realize they are now the abuser themselves then yes I think they can change IF they want to! This is harder once there has been abuse within a relationship of course its more likely things would work better if there was no prior history of abuse.. its very very hard to save a relationship were one has already abused the other in some form cause the hurt feelings will always be there under the surface..

[Satu]

"Hurt people hurt people."

 

They would need to deal with their own wounding.

 

That is best done with the help of a therapist.

 

There's no quick fix, but change is possible.

[DarrenB]

I 100% agree with Satu. Acknowledge the problem/s rather than neglect them.

[Herbalist]

Yes they can change, but either they will or they will not. There is not much point in waiting around wondering about someone. If they wanted to change then they would once they realize they are hurting others.

 

Emotional abuse comes in many forms and often people who were abused will pick up bad mechanisms from their parents and not even realize. These people are not malignant in nature but that does not change the fact that they engage in emotionally abusive behaviors. Once they realize, if they want to change then they will.

 

I can use myself as an example as I grew up with very dysfunctional and abusive parents and so this was all I knew going into early adulthood, and yes I picked up some bad things from them as well. One of those things was to be passive aggressive because I was terrified of even being assertive or showing anything along those lines. I was never allowed to be upset or mad growing up and even if I seemed angry at all I would be harshly punished for showing that emotion. Thus I was very passive as an adult until I would reach my boiling point and then I would be passive aggressive. Which is a form of emotional abuse. Therapy did help a great deal with this and I have learned ways to be more assertive early on when something is bothering me.

 

If someone is doing something that is blatantly hurtful and you have made it clear that it is hurtful then there is should be no doubt for you that they know they are hurting you and they do it purposefully. So then it is not a matter of "can they change" but rather that do not want to change as they prefer the power they feel it gives them, so run for the hills.

[basil67]

Before anyone can change, they have to admit they have a problem and be proactive about seeking help. Have both these things occurred?

[apc4455]

I think if you are already in an abusive relationship to begin with then it's extremely unlikely that the abusive person will change.

 

That's because the abusive tactics he was been employing have proven to be effective in the past. The reason he used those tactics was because they have given him some benefits and privileges in the relationship.

 

Given the fact that those tactics have greatly benefitted the abusive person in the past, it's extremely unlikely he will consciously decide to change.

 

Changing would mean that he would stop receiving those benefits in the future. What's more likely is that he would instead find a different partner to abuse on which he can continue to employ his abusive tactics.

 

I say that once abuse has started in a relationship, it's impossible to change in that particular relationship. He already got used to it. He knows he can get away with it. He knows he can get what he wants by being abusive. If you haven't done it already from day 1, he will never tolerate you standing up for yourself.

 

Walk away. It will only get worse.

[apc4455]

You also need to understand that most abusive guys are not mentally ill or sick.

 

Being abusive is not an illness.

 

Most of the time they do that consciously because they know that by being abusive they achieve certain goals and privileges for themselves. They do it because it works.

 

I remember when my dad was being abusive with my mom he behaved like a complete lunatic and crazy person, almost thinking that he was in some kind of delirious state. Then when we called the police and they entered the house he like within 1 second suddenly switched and acted like the kindest and most calm person ever. It was all an act. He was doing it consciously and on purpose. Not because he was "angry" or had some "underlying personality issues" that can be treated. He did that because he consciously decided to do it.

[Miss Clavel]

i think people can change, if they want to, if their life depends on it.

 

with help.

 

and i wouldn't trust the change had taken hold for at least five years.

 

i'm still trying to wrap my mind around the fact, which i'd never thought of before, that being abusive isn't a "disease".

 

and thinking about it, i would venture that angry aggressive violent people enjoy the feeling of power they get during the violence.

 

and that must be very hard to give up.

 

so, i think they can change but i sure as hell will not be hanging around waiting.

 

just wish them luck and haul ass.

[Taramere]

As Arieswoman says, a lot depends on the factors that result in them being abusive in the first place. If it's a pattern they've learned as part of an abusive childhood, that they badly want to break, then I think it is indeed possible - with a lot of effort and with the ability to take responsibility for their own behaviour. Somebody who is basically just a psychopath or a sadist (or both) isn't going to change. Being abusive is written into their DNA - it's just a question of finding the right time, place and person to act it out on.

 

They might modify their behaviour around people who they perceive as strong and/or who the abusive behaviour doesn't elicit the desired response from, but the moment they encounter a person or a situation that they can control with abusive outbursts (or a more cold and calculating abusive approach), they're going to grab it. With somebody like that, it's never going to be wise to let down your guard and subscribe to any belief that they've "changed". The moment you're genuinely vulnerable, you're likely to see how little they have, in fact, changed.

 

How do you tell the difference between the two? I think it's probably safest, when faced with somebody who routinely behaves in a way that's impacting seriously on your emotional health, and that seems to be driven by malice - and who you feel potentially at risk around - to assume it's deliberate/unchangeable and to get out. You can feel empathy for somebody who's abusive as a learned behaviour, and because they've been a victim of it themselves and are filled with pain and rage about it, but ultimately there are many resources out there to help people like that. If they don't avail themselves of help, then there's no reason for others to pay the price (at the cost of their own emotional health and their physical safety) of them failing to take steps to change.

 

With emotional abuse - I think that might be harder to address, in that people will tend not to take responsibility for it. "It's all in your mind" etc is the classic script of the cold, calculating abuser who wants their victim to question their own sanity. I think emotionally abusive people often act in a fairly calm and calculated way...which is suggestive, to me, of it coming from a place of very low empathy, which is more consistent of the type of abusive personality that probably isn't ever going to change. I've heard it say that it's actually quite destructive to send somebody like that for therapy, because they'll tend to use the process as a way of learning to mimic and fake empathy...thereby refining their manipulative techniques.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Taramere

[mikeylo]

There isn't a one answer to it. Some change, some don't. Some want to but still can't. Many replace the old with something new. It's very complicated. Many don't, at all.

 

That's why it's better not to get involved with an abuser. If you do, then make an exit.

[dreamingoftigers]

No, they don't change. They just modify their actions to get what they want in a different way. But their heart doesn't change. Even counsellors will say that personality disorders (especially BPD) cannot be cured because they are just part of a person's personality. I believe abuse is part of who a person is. It's not like some disease they acquire. They ARE an abuser. And, from what I've seen, abusers actually think their abusive trait is a GOOD thing. For example, a person who is an emotional bully might pride themselves in how it helps them succeed in business, etc.

 

No, they don't change. Don't even wait around for it.

 

This is interesting.

 

I was diagnosed with BPD in my early 20s.

 

I had EMDR therapy and DBT/CBT.

 

The emotional flooding stopped altogether. The crying and abandonment triggering stopped too. Haven't been suicidal in over a decade despite being through stressors that would cause the average person to cave into depression.

 

What's left? Binge-eating. (Ugh. Working on it)

 

Roughly 1/3 people with BPD in the milder forms outgrow it after years of expose to the 'adult world.'

 

And a high percentage benefit from cognitive therapies without relapse.

 

A friend from junior high that I keep in touch with also had the diagnosis. She is what I would also call "recovered" and finished her nursing degree and just started work as a psychiatric nurse.

 

I believe similar things about abusers. A large part of it is educating abusers about the fact that it's a set of poor coping skills and how destructive it is to their partners.

 

My husband went to a domestic violence group and greatly changed how he addressed me and stopped the push-pull behaviour.

 

Over the years I have noticed quite a shift from defensiveness to openness. We still have issues, but that is not because he's calling me names, threatening or being aggressive. Now we are working more on intimacy and financial issues. (Who DOESN'T struggle with that over a long-term marriage?)

 

IMHO: A decent percentage of abusers WON'T change. Don't get involved with someone or stay involved with someone that is actively abusive. A decent amount of BPD people CAN'T change. The worst case of BPD I ever saw was virtually hopeless (I think she might have been a lot better with EMDR, but she ended up dying in a fire )

 

But there ARE others that can and do, no matter howany people put them down and say they are hopeless. And professionals DO recognize this, or else there would BE therapies and groups for these people.

[dreamingoftigers]

I think it would depend a great deal on why they are abusers.

 

If they have a mental health issue like Cluster B Personality Disorder then that is part of them. They can't change any more than someone with diabetes can make their pancreas work normally.

 

However, if they have become an abuser because they were abused themselves in the past and have learned to use it as a coping mechanism, there may be hope.

 

However, in order to change, the individual needs to be aware of their behaviour, own it, and want to do something about it. Now that's a tall order for an abuser who has found that their behaviour has got them what they wanted for years.

 

My ex-husband, who was guilty of low-level verbal abuse for years, originally denied his behaviour. If I complained about how upsetting his remarks were he responded "I don't upset you, you only upset yourself".

 

After we were divorced and living apart I questioned him about it again and his answer was "All my life I have said nasty things to people and wished I hadn't. I could bite my tongue off for some of the things I've said to you".

 

I asked him why he did it and he said he didn't know.

 

I said "Well, she (affair partner) can put up with your nasty remarks now can't she?"

 

He said "Yes, she knows how nasty I can be".

 

So that's your answer. These people know exactly what they are doing but mostly aren't prepared to do anything about it.

 

If someone walks out on them they just go and find another target, rather than modify their actions.

 

I agree with most of this post.

 

The only thing I would slightly modify is the mention of Cluster B to diabetes.

 

Diabetes, like Cluster B issues can now be MANAGED if the person is willing to etc. And the results look similar. You have people that manage their diabetes and with type 2, they can even lose enough weight etc. to normalize (happened to my father-in-law). Others don't manage their diabetes. Like my ex's uncle. He lost his toes and was working on losing his leg up to his knee. They would find him in various states and have to rush him to the hospital because of his refusal to monitor his blood-sugar etc.

 

Again, I don't recommend getting involved with someone who has not learned to manage their Cluster B issue (and has a PROVEN track record of doing so) but again, for those Cluster B folks out there, it is not hopeless if you want to be well and have healthy relationships.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yes they can change, but either they will or they will not. There is not much point in waiting around wondering about someone. If they wanted to change then they would once they realize they are hurting others.

 

Emotional abuse comes in many forms and often people who were abused will pick up bad mechanisms from their parents and not even realize. These people are not malignant in nature but that does not change the fact that they engage in emotionally abusive behaviors. Once they realize, if they want to change then they will.

 

I can use myself as an example as I grew up with very dysfunctional and abusive parents and so this was all I knew going into early adulthood, and yes I picked up some bad things from them as well. One of those things was to be passive aggressive because I was terrified of even being assertive or showing anything along those lines. I was never allowed to be upset or mad growing up and even if I seemed angry at all I would be harshly punished for showing that emotion. Thus I was very passive as an adult until I would reach my boiling point and then I would be passive aggressive. Which is a form of emotional abuse. Therapy did help a great deal with this and I have learned ways to be more assertive early on when something is bothering me.

 

If someone is doing something that is blatantly hurtful and you have made it clear that it is hurtful then there is should be no doubt for you that they know they are hurting you and they do it purposefully. So then it is not a matter of "can they change" but rather that do not want to change as they prefer the power they feel it gives them, so run for the hills.

 

Good for you.

 

My parents are both P-A and my father is also highly aggressive and my mother was also highly passive.

 

The irony is that I thought both of them were pretty nuts and did a lot of useless game-playing. It actually caused me to be naturally assertive as the only way I could live with or combat any of it.

 

I married a man with heavy P-A traits and when he went to the domestic violence group, he shed A LOT of that, which was wonderful. I think that was the most helpful part of the program. As soon as he realized that it was from his mother, and the Hell that put him through, he wanted to change that.

 

The hardest part it seemed was identifying his feelings and setting his own boundaries. There's somewhat of a vulnerability in finding, defining and defending your own feelings and so it was very hard at first for him.

 

But now, for instance, he mentioned last night a particularly rough chapter in our marriage where I honestly thought he pretty much forgot about it. He said he had thought about it a few times in the last month and wanted to share about how he sees that now and how apologetic he is about it. He let me know that when he thought about being in my shoes, he had an empty hollow feeling. It might be a small thing for most people to empathize. But for me that was pretty huge.

[dreamingoftigers]

You also need to understand that most abusive guys are not mentally ill or sick.

 

Being abusive is not an illness.

 

Most of the time they do that consciously because they know that by being abusive they achieve certain goals and privileges for themselves. They do it because it works.

 

I remember when my dad was being abusive with my mom he behaved like a complete lunatic and crazy person, almost thinking that he was in some kind of delirious state. Then when we called the police and they entered the house he like within 1 second suddenly switched and acted like the kindest and most calm person ever. It was all an act. He was doing it consciously and on purpose. Not because he was "angry" or had some "underlying personality issues" that can be treated. He did that because he consciously decided to do it.

 

Yeah, my Dad was a terrible abuser.

 

The icing on the cake was that he would tell me that he would kill me, bury me in the backward and that no one would ever miss me or find me. (So healthy )

Or that he would rip my head off and piss down my dead skull).

 

He didn't change anything of those behaviours until he cheated on my mother, her ILLUSIONS of him broke a bit and he nearly lost his 35+ year marriage. THEN he started being serious about therapy.

 

He's STILL ridiculous however. Always shouting etc.but still at least manageable to deal with. Him.and my husband do not speak under any circumstances, which is honestly : really peaceful. Because he was always threatening to kill my husband. So we couldn't even visit my mother (because who lets someone treat their spouse like that, right?) Likely my husband's mother is much like my father, so we both understand each other and our predicaments.

[benpom]

But their heart doesn't change.

And, from what I've seen, abusers actually think their abusive trait is a GOOD thing. For example, a person who is an emotional bully might pride themselves in how it helps them succeed in business, etc.

 

I agree that true abuse is in the heart.

 

IMHO, many people who behave in civilized ways can still be true abusers. They can manipulate other people by tricking them, pushing them over the edge by picking on their insecurities, blackmailing them.

 

While many people who lose temper are not abusers by heart. These people snap because they have been fed up too much, and compromised too much. Once they realize they have hurt someone, they feel regret and commit to change.

 

In my opinion, the key is: true abusers feel good about making others suffer.

 

Name-calling, violence and many other typical symptoms are not necessarily involved.

[LastAcorn99]

I believe that change is possible, if that person acknowledges they have a problem, seek help, and intentionally work towards improving themselves.