I'm starting to feel like men are hopeless, and I'm hopeless around them

October 30, 2016

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I'm in a program for professionals in the arts that I'm doing long-distance, but every few months our small group gets together with a coach to socialize, do workshops, share our work, etc.

A few weeks ago I traveled to do a social outing with this group. Four of the six of us were there, with our coach. We went to dinner, and then three of us--me, another woman, and a man--went to an adjacent bar for some drinks. I ended up drinking too much, and while I insisted I could just sleep it off in the back of my car, the guy insisted on taking me back to my hotel and picking me up in the morning to take me to my car so that I could get to my one-on-one appointment with our coach.

He didn't do anything inappropriate; I do remember his hand on my thigh at one point, but nothing untoward happened save for that, I am certain. I certainly was not "putting out," as I am not even remotely attracted to him.

The next morning the other woman who joined us for drinks told me that while I was in the restroom the previous night, he asked her to go hide out in the bathroom when I came back, so that he could kiss me.

Yesterday I received this email from him:

I wish I had not poisoned you.
You were speaking clearly and lucidly (and continued to, for the entire evening—it was rather impressive) so in the moment it didn’t quite register that you weren’t feeling fine. Still, there were better options than me ordering a second round. We could have had dessert at a table, or gone walking. Lit something on fire. Like that.
You wanted to go to your car. I wanted to be sure you were somewhere safe, and so I did what I thought was the decent thing and basically kidnapped you on a Saturday night. It was not done out of disrespect. I hope you’ll agree that being taken to a place against your will, even a nice place with soft pillows, doesn’t exactly obligate you to buy me lunch or a bagel or a chocolate malt.
I would still like to see you, though. I find you interesting and strange and fun. And I’m betting that anyone who loads an overnight duffel with a waffle iron and 9 pairs of shoes may have good stories to tell.

I am totally creeped out. First of all, that he thought he should try to kiss me; second, that he even ventured to put his hand on my bare thigh when it was obvious I was too inebriated to give consent to anything; third, that in an email where he's checking in about the events of that night, he "jokes," if that is what it is, about taking me anywhere "against my will" and "poisoning" me. Also, I should add that the subject of his email was, "Tied up and taken away."

How do I right this unfortunate situation so that I can interact non-eventfully with him as is required by this two-year program we're in, but also let him know that I am 100% absolutely NOT interested in anything else, ever. I just feel really grossed out by his email; I think it's really inappropriate and while he might have been trying to be cute or clever or funny, I think that's not something to joke about with any woman, ever.

And yes, I know it was my "fault" that I had too much to drink and ended up in a situation that leaves an opening for mixed messages, but I am positive I never came onto him in any way because I am that disinterested. And for the record, I don't drink often and certainly never let myself get so drunk; the cocktails we had were particularly potent and it came on me all of a sudden. I will take care that this does not happen again.

I just feel so grossed out, and I think what is really getting me is that this is yet another guy who can't even be basically DECENT? I mean, isn't it obvious that if I was too inebriated to get myself safely back to my hotel, then it's completely inappropriate to even mildly take advantage of the situation? And then that email???

I mean, are there any basically nice, decent men out there?

Edited October 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
moved to correct forum ~6

October 30, 2016

My advice is to reply with something very short but straightforward and plain such as:

"Thank you for the offer, but I am not interested."

Then ignore anything else he might send unless it's something extreme like threats that you would show to the police.But anything less than that to just ignore it. Also save the email, do not delete it.

Then it is his responsibility to accept the response and not interact with you beyond professional limits anymore.

October 30, 2016

I mean, are there any basically nice, decent men out there?

Yes. I would say that most men would not be so forward. Your unfortunately experience is not indicative of all or most men, I believe.

MAKE IT VERY CLEAR that you are not interested and you found his email offensive.

October 30, 2016

That is not good. Very creepy indeed!

Don't give up on men. It may not feel like it when you are weeding through applicants while dating, but there are many good, kind, smart, and decent men out there. They are just hard to find... But when you do find him, hold onto him tight!

October 30, 2016

Save the email. Let him know that he should not email you unless it is absolutely related to course you two are taking. Educational only.

October 30, 2016

Yes. I would say that most men would not be so forward. Your unfortunately experience is not indicative of all or most men, I believe.

MAKE IT VERY CLEAR that you are not interested and you found his email offensive.

Which "forward" are you referring to, just so I'm sure I'm understanding you? The hand on my thigh, or that creepy email?

Do you think I could best make the point that I'm not interested by not answering? Or must I answer in order to prevent anything untoward or awkward happening at our next group meeting in a month?

I'm thinking of saying something like, "Thank you for getting me safely back to my hotel and for the ride to my car in the morning. It's regrettable I was in a position where that had to occur, because situations like this can perhaps send confusing messages. I'm in this program because I want to develop my creative project and I'm not interested in anything beyond that. I'll look forward to seeing you as part of the group when we have our next meeting."

The thing is, I really do feel offended and I want to tell him to f off. I'm tempted to say something like, "Your email was pretty creepy so I want to be sure I'm clear: ..."

Just...:sick:

October 30, 2016

Or can I even say, "Dude, are you in the practice of sending creepy emails like this to women? I appreciate you getting me safely to my hotel and then to my car in the morning, but I want to be clear that I'm not interested in anything beyond interacting as part of our program. I'll look forward to seeing you at our next group meeting in January."

I feel really violated by that email. I mean, does someone really send something like that innocently? We only have met each other twice, in the context of this program we're in.

October 30, 2016

Which "forward" are you referring to, just so I'm sure I'm understanding you? The hand on my thigh, or that creepy email?

Do you think I could best make the point that I'm not interested by not answering? Or must I answer in order to prevent anything untoward or awkward happening at our next group meeting in a month?

I'm thinking of saying something like, "Thank you for getting me safely back to my hotel and for the ride to my car in the morning. It's regrettable I was in a position where that had to occur, because situations like this can perhaps send confusing messages. I'm in this program because I want to develop my creative project and I'm not interested in anything beyond that. I'll look forward to seeing you as part of the group when we have our next meeting."

The thing is, I really do feel offended and I want to tell him to f off. I'm tempted to say something like, "Your email was pretty creepy so I want to be sure I'm clear: ..."

Just...:sick:

Tell him, in a non-defensive, but firm, way that you are not at all interested and would like to focus on your work. And that you found the email uncomfortable. I wouldn't be provocative. I would care to think that he will get the message. When I say firm, I do not mean with a smile...be serious and stern.

October 30, 2016

Hi Greencove,

No response WILL NOT get it done. He will fill in the silence with what suits him. Look no further at all the souls in no contact and are asking what it means that their exes are not reaching out.

Your proposed response looks to be along the professional, mature and clear lines, so go with that. If he persists, move to more harsh language.

Just distance yourself as cleanly and conflict free as possible.

October 30, 2016

Or can I even say, "Dude, are you in the practice of sending creepy emails like this to women? I appreciate you getting me safely to my hotel and then to my car in the morning, but I want to be clear that I'm not interested in anything beyond interacting as part of our program. I'll look forward to seeing you at our next group meeting in January."

I feel really violated by that email. I mean, does someone really send something like that innocently? We only have met each other twice, in the context of this program we're in.

Depends on what you mean by innocently.

Some people are psychopaths and will send an email like that in a deliberate effort to provoke you or try to manipulate you, or to prod you for vulnerability and see if they can take more advantage and so on.

Some people are just inappropriate and they might be narcissistic as well and get their panties in a big bunch if you don't find them as funny and charming as they think they are. They fully expect you to be really into them and that is why they wouldn't think you would react badly to jokes about being poisoned and abducted basically, maybe you will find it hot because you find them hot because they are hot (how they think).

Some people are just very socially clueless and even though they mean well, they will fumble big time and come across as super creepy because a combination of poor perception and anxiety and general awkwardness causes their brain to just spew out a bunch of weirdness when they feel pressured such as when trying to flirt with someone they find attractive. Then if they realize how creepy they were they would feel mortified.

That is why a plain and straightforward response is best as it covers all of these possibilities without inflaming the situation on the other side.

October 30, 2016

I wouldn't respond at all.

I'd forward it to whoever is running the program. It looks to me like he spiked your drink - and that's just for starters.

October 30, 2016

I wouldn't respond at all.
I'd forward it to whoever is running the program. It looks to me like he spiked your drink - and that's just for starters.

Oh do you think it was more serious and not a joke? OP did say the drink was more "potent" than she expected. And the creeper guy did say he was "impressed" that she remained lucid.

Yes now that you mention this it does seem very suspect, maybe a good idea to forward it I agree. What if he did spike her drink and he did it to others?

October 30, 2016

I don't think the email was creepy, just socially awkward. He was just making light of what happened in his dorky way. He is harmless. He's a guy, he's interested in you, and is asking you out...that part is pretty normal. You don't see it that way because of the circumstances. It was unfortunate that you did drink too much and you are trying to regain your dignity.

You don't have to give him some long winded explanation......just send a "sorry not interested" and leave it at that.

October 30, 2016

I wouldn't respond at all.
I'd forward it to whoever is running the program. It looks to me like he spiked your drink - and that's just for starters.

I thought about that. But I think I will reply, and depending upon how he responds, and how he acts at our next group meeting, I'll forward it to the program director, or not.

It occurred to me, too, after his email that he may have spiked my drink, but there was another woman from our group with us, and she never left the bar. I'd had enough to drink, lightweight that I am, that it is more than possible the drinks themselves got me so inebriated. They were strong, and we each had two of them on top of sake and saketinis at the restaurant prior.

I'm just blown away that any man, especially after all the Trump stuff about women, etc. that's been blowing up the news lately, would venture to email a woman about poisoning and abduction and such. Just seems really dumb in addition to creepy.

I swear sometimes I feel like giving up on men. All the ones I've encountered in the past year have either been creepy, or dumb. Completely lacking in basic manners and self-awareness and then expecting that of course I'd be interested. I'm so over it.

October 30, 2016

This struck me as peculiar

" I wish I had not poisoned you.

You were speaking clearly and lucidly "

Are you sure you weren't spiked?

October 30, 2016

I don't think the email was creepy, just socially awkward. He was just making light of what happened in his dorky way. He is harmless. He's a guy, he's interested in you, and is asking you out...that part is pretty normal. You don't see it that way because of the circumstances. It was unfortunate that you did drink too much and you are trying to regain your dignity.

You don't have to give him some long winded explanation......just send a "sorry not interested" and leave it at that.

Okay, that's fair. So here's what I've typed out to send to him; you think it's ok?

Thanks for making sure I got to my hotel safely, and for the ride to my car in the morning. It's regrettable I was in a position where that had to happen, because such situations can perhaps send confusing messages.

I'm in [our Program] because I am dedicated to completing [my creative project], and enjoying supporting and getting to know other people as serious about their work as I am about mine. I'm not interested in anything beyond that. I hope we can enjoy more group social outings like two weekends ago; I had a great time.

October 30, 2016

This struck me as peculiar

" I wish I had not poisoned you.
You were speaking clearly and lucidly "

Are you sure you weren't spiked?

I would be very worried that was the case except that there was another woman from our program with us, and all three of us ordered the same cocktail, and we each had two. We were sitting in a row at the bar, and the other woman never left. When I got up to use the restroom, I know she remained at the bar with him because she told me that's when he set about trying to convince her to go to the restroom when I returned so that he could try to kiss me.

October 30, 2016

I'd lose the last line. Don't give him any hope of anything happening between you two... even friendship.

October 30, 2016

I think you're inviting a lot more creepy if you send that mail.

You thought his mail was creepy yet you feel inclined to send a polite sweet reply?

So, if you all drank the same all of you would have ended up in the same state - was that the case?

October 30, 2016

I don't think the email was creepy, just socially awkward. He was just making light of what happened in his dorky way. He is harmless. He's a guy, he's interested in you, and is asking you out...that part is pretty normal. You don't see it that way because of the circumstances. It was unfortunate that you did drink too much and you are trying to regain your dignity.

You don't have to give him some long winded explanation......just send a "sorry not interested" and leave it at that.

See...this touches on why I feel hopeless with guys. This thing people say, "Oh, well, he's just a guy." Like I'm supposed to adopt an attitude of, "Oh, poor little pooh pooh, he is just awkward and dorky and you just have to laugh off the fact that in his awkwardness he alluded to tying you up, taking you away, poisoning you, and taking you somewhere against your will. That's all just the "cuteness" of a guy being a guy, and being interested in a girl.

Then if I find such stuff offensive, I'm "one of THOSE women." Difficult. Uptight. A nag.

Shouldn't a man who is in his mid-fifties, probably, be expected to know better than to send a woman an email like that? What he doesn't know about me is that I actually happen to have a pretty sinister sense of humor, but this from a near-stranger is not funny to me at all, especially since I was essentially at his mercy that evening given I was too drunk to get home on my own.

October 30, 2016

It does seem slightly strange, though if you were all drinking the same thing I'd probably treat it as a creative take on drinking too much! Though as you say, with the recent Trump headlines perhaps a little thoughtless.

If I were you I think I'd politely tell him you're not interested first, then if he doesn't get the hint... tell him to bugger off.

October 30, 2016

I think you're inviting a lot more creepy if you send that mail.
You thought his mail was creepy yet you feel inclined to send a polite sweet reply?

So, if you all drank the same all of you would have ended up in the same state - was that the case?

No, but he's a large male, and I am a lightweight who doesn't handle hard liquor well at all. Also, as I said, I don't see how he could have had the opportunity given the other woman was there, interacting with him the whole time even when I stepped away to use the restroom.

What reply would you recommend I give? I think it's too premature to involve our program in this. Did I not make sufficiently clear that I'm not interested?

October 30, 2016

Sorry about your experience.

IMO, silence sandwich and strictly professional distance in all future encounters.

Is this ad-hoc or is there some sort of command structure here? Is there a HR structure for these associations or are these voluntary professional interactions? You have his e-mail with headers, ala Wikileaks. Add in any observations, tie it off and set it aside.

As a guy, that guy sounds creepy to me but, OTOH, fortune smiles on the bold and sometimes creepy in life. He likely didn't get to his professional position by micromanaging himself and perceptions of his behavior to be unanimously positive. There's always another lady to rescue and whatever.

Perhaps use this experience as one more test case along the path to working out a SOP to handle creepy male advances in general. Keep trying things until you find a milieu that works for you.

October 30, 2016

Just tell him no.

Here is what I want you to think about. Often the same guy who "saves" you is the one who, as he put it, poisoned you. He may have intentionally either slipped something in your drink or bribed a bartender to overload your drinks with liquor. I have had this happen to me on three occasions that I recollect and only realized it in retrospect on two of them, but then I started seeing this pattern where they load your drink and then "save" you, carry you off, ostensibly for your own good. So just think about it real hard. Remember how many and what drinks you had and if that alone was enough to do this to you or not. Remember if he was going up to the bar or if he had access to your drink.

No, even though his note was funny, I wouldn't trust him for the same reasons you mentioned: He planned to kiss you and he did feel your thigh when you were messed up. He may have messed you up. Tell him you do indeed feel like you were poisoned, just to give him a little scare, and that you are not up for a replay or dating anyone at work. And next time, watch your drink, order soda instead of drinks and don't let anyone go to the bar for you or turn your back on your drink or watch they're not colluding with bartenders to poison you.

October 30, 2016

The email is definitely a bit odd. I can't make out if he is just making light of the situation and joking, or if he really is "confessing" to something. If the latter, I can't see why he would do that, it's just stupid - if he is calculated enough to spike a drink I doubt he would admit to it.

If it were me I'd want a clarification on this "poisoning" reference. But OTOH you might not want to engage him too much.

May be best just sending a no thanks, I'm not interested email.

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