New Relationship Between Childhood Abuse Survivors

[CommittedToThis]

Hi all,

 

New here, got a question for you, I would appreciate advice, thanks in advance.

 

I'm 1 year out of a long relationship with an undiagnosed NPD. I spent the last year studying, detaching from all I lost, doing self-care, self-love and self-parenting.

 

I moved to a new city and bought my 1st home, I am starting to get my legs back under me and guess what?

 

My first time going to a local singles group resulted in meeting a wonderful woman.

 

We've been dating a lot the last month and recently spent our first weekend together on a romantic road trip. We're having sex (we're both older and sex isn't that a big deal to us) and growing closer. Over the weekend we decided to be officially "boyfriend and girlfriend."

 

We had a long talk and it turns out we were both emotionally and physically abused as kids. She's older than me (I'm 51) and she, like me, has a trail of broken relationships in her past.

 

Because of my last relationship with the NPD I am suddenly wary of the fact both of us have childhood abuse issues. I do not want to be in a relationship where we are both trying to "fix" our damage, you know what I mean?

 

What I want is a nice honest relationship where we are supportive and loving -- the exact opposite of my prior NPD relationship.

 

Now I'm wondering: did I just deliberately find and meet a woman with damage similar to mine in an attempt to re-enter a cycle of abuse?

 

Aside from learning that she, like me, as a child was beaten by her father and ignored by her mother, there are absolutely zero red flags. Trust me, I've been looking.

 

Knowing that so far my intuition (ridiculed in the past by NPD ex) isn't sending me any warning messages and I am not seeing any red flags in her behaviour, I am wondering if we should perhaps enter couples therapy now at this early stage of the relationship?

 

I really, really like her. We get along great (like I did early on in my past PD relationship), we have a lot in common, we communicate wonderfully and openly, and we're both of a mature age where we realize this could be "the one" for our wonderful REAL (not false) future together.

 

I should also mention she is independently wealthy, I was with a wealthy girlfriend a decade ago and I left because I wasn't happy with the relationship; I told my new love this because I don't want her thinking I am a gold digger. I'm not. I am not wealthy but I have my stuff together (20 years at same job, own a home, responsible, clean, etc.).

 

That said, the idea ("future thinking") of her settling my debts and the both of us travelling the world going to exotic locations (which she has been doing for years with friends and family) is very appealing, of course. We've talked about it and she said all she wants is a good man to share her good fortune with.

 

My first question for the experts is: do you think this relationship could be viable as a real, loving partnership (which is what we both want), or should I examine the fact that maybe somehow, subconsciously, I am *choosing* to be attracted to women with childhood emotional/physical abuse?

 

I mean, I randomly met her at a singles dinner. I am not looking for people with deep scars, we met and were mutually attracted. I only just learned about our mutual childhood abuse.

 

My second question is, since we are both serious about this relationship, should I suggest to her that we start seeing a couples therapist at this early stage of the game?

 

I know new girlfriend is not out to use me, my instincts and her behaviour indicates such. I'm just concerned about the viability of two wounded inner children being able to have a real, honest and loving relationship. There is not much info out there about "husband and wife both with childhood abuse issues."

 

Huge thanks for reading this, maybe some here just fresh out of a PD relationship and in the deep darkness of coming to grips with it will realize there IS life out there afterwards, that not all people are out to use you.

Edited October 31, 2016 by CommittedToThis

[preraph]

First, I would just take it slow. Get to know her better before you invest your heart. Let her get to know you. There's no hurry. Then you'll know you're not just plunging into something to fix something.

 

Next, of course, you should talk about this with your therapist and she should keep her therapist informed as well.

 

Do tell her that you don't want to just reimmerse in the history but are trying to move forward, and find out where she feels she is at in that regard. You don't need to be feeling anyone else's pain right now. If she's looking for someone to spill her guts too and use as a shrink, she's not right for you right now. I agree you should both try to move forward and enjoy life, so just be sure you're on the same page about that. Good luck!!

[CommittedToThis]

First, I would just take it slow.

 

Thanks, preraph, I appreciate the advice and words of common sense and wisdom.

 

Guess what?

 

I *just* realized she triangulated me last weekend.

 

Saturday we were at the house she's working on; she wanted the household products the prior tenants left behind in the garage disposed of, so I boxed 'em all up and put them in the trunk of her car.

 

Around 2:15PM she told me she thought the household hazardous waste site closed at 3PM; she was expecting a contractor around 2:30PM, so would I be so kind as to take her car and dump the waste before they closed? I said yes; I wanted to drive her new Lexus.

 

Earlier that day on the drive up to her house she'd talked about the contractor she was meeting, she told me he'd been working for her for years and did great work. I thought nothing else other than, "It's nice to find a reliable and quality contractor."

 

When I got back to the house the contractor was there and she introduced us and we chatted; he seemed like a nice enough guy and I didn't think anything of the interaction.

 

However, after he left, she told me she felt awkward being alone with him, that she felt his intentions might have been suspect. I asked her if he was married and she said, "Yeah, but would that stop him from hitting on me?"

 

Well, shoot.

 

I just now -- 2 days later -- realize I got triangulated big time.

 

Listen: if, say, the hazardous waste disposal attendant were a female who hit on me while I was there alone with her it would never occur to me to tell my new girlfriend about the incident. I know it would cause her concern if she cared about me.

 

She told me she's known this contractor for years, never mentioned a sexual thing between them, so am I to assume that the weekend I am with her is the weekend he decides to hit on her after all these years?

 

Seems unlikely to me.

 

I assume she told me this to test my mettle, prove my willingness to fight for her, prove my manhood, whatever. Why else would she tell me? Anyone?

 

I am taking this seriously and am going to end this when I see her later this week (I want to do it face to face). I'm disappointed this happened but I've been here before. The fact we get along and she's rich means nothing to me in light of this.

 

The weird thing is on the drive home we both opened up about our shared childhood abuse for the first time. Here I meet a random woman at a singles dinner, feel an instant mutual attraction, then weeks later learn we're both childhood abuse victims; we were both beaten by Dad and ignored by Mom.

 

How weird is that? It's, like, PROOF that damaged people somehow find each other. I had no clue she'd been abused until she told me yesterday.

 

Moral: get out there and meet people but remember there are PDs among us and us nons/empaths seem to attract and be attracted to them even if you're not consciously aware of it.

 

Next!

Edited October 31, 2016 by CommittedToThis

[preraph]

Well, when you talk to her about it, be sure she knows what triangulation is. I don't see what she did as heinous by any means, but if it were me, my advice to her would be simply to maintain a more professional boundary with him than bringing him into a personal conversation with her and you, her guest. I mean, that does show she has some boundary problems. Soft boundaries. Again, not heinous, but can get you into trouble, like make the guy think there's a chance. But she clearly wanted him to see she was otherwise occupied with you, and I have to say with women (I'm one) it's not that uncommon to use a guy to ward another guy off.

[CommittedToThis]

I don't see what she did as heinous by any means

 

preraph, you rock. Thank you.

 

I agree it's nothing heinous or even likely malicious or even conscious on her part, perhaps she is being honest with me like I asked of her.

 

However, my past 3 long term relationships all eventually ended in betrayal at the hands of my exes and all of them pulled the same move on me around the same time in the relationship.

 

So I'm definitely severing ties with this one and if I'm wrong and I just missed my soulmate, so be it. I know there are women out there with the tact and confidence to not have to feel the need to make it perfectly clear to their new boyfriends that they are desired by other men.

 

There have been other less obvious flags I won't get into but the fact she told me this -- after she quite obviously set me up to leave her alone with the contractor, mind you -- makes me feel she desired one of the following results:

 

1. I get manly and threaten to beat the guy up for hitting on her.

2. I get jealous and call her on it -- "Is this the first time he's hit on you? Is there something else you need to tell me? I'm uncomfortable (whining)!"

3. I laugh it off and say, "Cute, I get it. I need to work harder for you because you've got backup."

4. I non-react and let it slide completely.

 

What else could I say or do? I chose #4 'cause I'm not looking for drama.

 

She also revealed she is a victim of childhood abuse, as am I. I believe, unlike my reaction to the abuse (empath), that she is on the opposite end of the scale. She shows very little gratitude, and I have worked my tail off in pursuit of her; she is dismissive of past boyfriends not being up to her standards ie. suggesting she used them for sex; she is too sexually aggressive (give me a chance to warm things up, woman!).

 

It all adds up to me smiling and feeling insanely wonderful about calling this shot. Live and learn, indeed.

 

Thanks again my friend.

[dreamingoftigers]

Thanks, preraph, I appreciate the advice and words of common sense and wisdom.

 

Guess what?

 

I *just* realized she triangulated me last weekend.

 

Saturday we were at the house she's working on; she wanted the household products the prior tenants left behind in the garage disposed of, so I boxed 'em all up and put them in the trunk of her car.

 

Around 2:15PM she told me she thought the household hazardous waste site closed at 3PM; she was expecting a contractor around 2:30PM, so would I be so kind as to take her car and dump the waste before they closed? I said yes; I wanted to drive her new Lexus.

 

Earlier that day on the drive up to her house she'd talked about the contractor she was meeting, she told me he'd been working for her for years and did great work. I thought nothing else other than, "It's nice to find a reliable and quality contractor."

 

When I got back to the house the contractor was there and she introduced us and we chatted; he seemed like a nice enough guy and I didn't think anything of the interaction.

 

However, after he left, she told me she felt awkward being alone with him, that she felt his intentions might have been suspect. I asked her if he was married and she said, "Yeah, but would that stop him from hitting on me?"

 

Well, shoot.

 

I just now -- 2 days later -- realize I got triangulated big time.

 

Listen: if, say, the hazardous waste disposal attendant were a female who hit on me while I was there alone with her it would never occur to me to tell my new girlfriend about the incident. I know it would cause her concern if she cared about me.

 

She told me she's known this contractor for years, never mentioned a sexual thing between them, so am I to assume that the weekend I am with her is the weekend he decides to hit on her after all these years?

 

Seems unlikely to me.

 

I assume she told me this to test my mettle, prove my willingness to fight for her, prove my manhood, whatever. Why else would she tell me? Anyone?

 

I am taking this seriously and am going to end this when I see her later this week (I want to do it face to face). I'm disappointed this happened but I've been here before. The fact we get along and she's rich means nothing to me in light of this.

 

The weird thing is on the drive home we both opened up about our shared childhood abuse for the first time. Here I meet a random woman at a singles dinner, feel an instant mutual attraction, then weeks later learn we're both childhood abuse victims; we were both beaten by Dad and ignored by Mom.

 

How weird is that? It's, like, PROOF that damaged people somehow find each other. I had no clue she'd been abused until she told me yesterday.

 

Moral: get out there and meet people but remember there are PDs among us and us nons/empaths seem to attract and be attracted to them even if you're not consciously aware of it.

 

Next!

 

I outright fail to see triangulation and dysfunction there.

 

You did her a favour, she was with the guy alone, and she mentioned feeling uncomfortable about it.

 

That's nothing new to me as a woman, even as a not particularly attractive woman.

 

Men do this. All of the time. Married or unmarried, professional or not.

 

My boss that I've known for seven or so years said something inappropriate to me last week, which actually really surprised me (especially because I KNOW HIS WIFE and she was just UPSTAIRS and I'VE NEVER had poor boundaries or given any indication of such. And HE KNOWS MY HUSBAND, who also worked for him for years.)

 

It happens. And I had to reassert my boundaries. So embarrassing. I don't even like going into work right now, and I am part way through significant, expensive training. Ugh.

 

I told my husband about what happened. Not because I want my husband to "prove his manhood." (Jeez, I don't even know how you came up with that honestly). But because I want to share my life with h, and I felt that holding back that info would be somewhat of a betrayal, or risk appearing in the future that I opened any kind of inappropriate door. My telling my husband was a deliberate, uncomfortable display of LOYALTY.

 

I only see your gf showing you that. She doesn't want other men hitting on her, and just showed you that. And now you are throwing her under the bus for that, like it's some kind of "test."

 

Why don't you just ASK her and see what she has to say. Or talk to your counselor about it?

 

I honestly, from the bottom of my brain stem have no idea how you came up with this being a triangulation test about your "manhood."

[dreamingoftigers]

preraph, you rock. Thank you.

 

I agree it's nothing heinous or even likely malicious or even conscious on her part, perhaps she is being honest with me like I asked of her.

 

However, my past 3 long term relationships all eventually ended in betrayal at the hands of my exes and all of them pulled the same move on me around the same time in the relationship.

 

So I'm definitely severing ties with this one and if I'm wrong and I just missed my soulmate, so be it. I know there are women out there with the tact and confidence to not have to feel the need to make it perfectly clear to their new boyfriends that they are desired by other men.

 

There have been other less obvious flags I won't get into but the fact she told me this -- after she quite obviously set me up to leave her alone with the contractor, mind you -- makes me feel she desired one of the following results:

 

1. I get manly and threaten to beat the guy up for hitting on her.

2. I get jealous and call her on it -- "Is this the first time he's hit on you? Is there something else you need to tell me? I'm uncomfortable (whining)!"

3. I laugh it off and say, "Cute, I get it. I need to work harder for you because you've got backup."

4. I non-react and let it slide completely.

 

What else could I say or do? I chose #4 'cause I'm not looking for drama.

 

She also revealed she is a victim of childhood abuse, as am I. I believe, unlike my reaction to the abuse (empath), that she is on the opposite end of the scale. She shows very little gratitude, and I have worked my tail off in pursuit of her; she is dismissive of past boyfriends not being up to her standards ie. suggesting she used them for sex; she is too sexually aggressive (give me a chance to warm things up, woman!).

 

It all adds up to me smiling and feeling insanely wonderful about calling this shot. Live and learn, indeed.

 

Thanks again my friend.

 

I really see this as being "all about you."

 

What I actually see the situation as is this:

 

1. You drove some stuff to waste disposal, she was alone with the dude and told you that being alone with another dude like that makes her uncomfortable, without any depth attached to it. No "save me" actions. No "beat him up" suggestions. No call to action from you AT ALL. Just her sharing her own feelings about a MINOR situation.

 

And you are going to end things because of her feeling uncomfortable about potentially being hit on. That's life for most of us females. It's many men who lack decent personal and professional boundaries and that is a REALITY for pretty much ALL of us.

 

The fact that you seem to be making far more about this than the reality of the situation would tell me that YOU aren't ready to date yet. And honestly, given what she's shared about herself and opened herself to you, she might very well be dodging a bullet here.

 

It reminds me very much of when my first dog died and I cried and shared my grief with my boyfriend at the time. He had VERY HEAVY Mother-issues. He went and got me a flower, which I found sweet. Until the very next day where he told me that my crying over my DEAD DOG was "manipulative" and that he felt "MANIPULATED into buying me a flower." I was pretty stunned and baffled by this. I had never met anyone who thought that grieving and crying over a beloved pet's death was anything but normal. He read his own issues completely into my very typical circumstance. Nor did I make any mention of "flowers making me feel better etc etc etc. Or 'could you get me something for my grief' etc."

[dreamingoftigers]

She also revealed she is a victim of childhood abuse, as am I. I believe, unlike my reaction to the abuse (empath), that she is on the opposite end of the scale. She shows very little gratitude, and I have worked my tail off in pursuit of her; she is dismissive of past boyfriends not being up to her standards ie. suggesting she used them for sex; she is too sexually aggressive (give me a chance to warm things up, woman!).

 

As a high-libido woman, I really wonder why her suggesting that her past boyfriends weren't up to her standards means that "she used them for sex."

 

And the "sexual-aggressiveness" comment makes me wonder if you've ever looked into Madonna-Whore Complex.

 

If you are uncomfortable with your partner's sexual expression, that could be a source of incompatibility. It doesn't mean that they are a user, taker or betrayer (in and of itself). It's also up to you to make it very clear how you want to be approached and responded to. That's part of setting your sexual boundaries in a relationship.

[CommittedToThis]

Thank you, Dreaming, I appreciate your thoughts.

 

This is unequivocally about me, no question about it. I'm not comfortable with what she did.

 

End of story. End of her.

[preraph]

Well, it sounds like besides the issue with the handyman, she and you have some other incompatibilities and that it's not going to work out. Whatever her motives were for having you and the married handyman meet, it's still indicative of some bad boundaries on her part, and I hope her therapist is aware of those issues. Good luck going forward.

[CommittedToThis]

Why don't you just ASK her and see what she has to say.

 

Hi Dreaming,

 

I did ask her and she denied telling me he hit on her; I reminded her that I asked her if contractor was married and that she replied, "Yes, but why would that stop him?" Again, she denied saying it, denied saying anything other than that she was uncomfortable being alone with him.

 

She gaslighted me, which is exactly what I expected. I know what I heard.

 

Men do this. All of the time.

 

Nice generalization. I don’t, never have, and never would. Obviously we all get hit on from time to time, bringing it up is a game to make the other jealous, off-balance, whatever. It’s a game and I don’t play games. Keep it to yourself.

 

The fact that you seem to be making far more about this than the reality of the situation would tell me that YOU aren't ready to date yet.

 

I told her of my recent departure from a 10 year interaction with an uNPDgf and all the stuff I went thru (including tons of triangulations at the hands of ex) and she did it anyway. She tested me and she failed.

 

And the "sexual-aggressiveness" comment makes me wonder if you've ever looked into Madonna-Whore Complex.

 

The first time we had sex she wanted no foreplay whatsoever – just “come ride me stallion, NOW.” I’m not a teenager and I’m not a wham bam thank you mam kind of lover, It didn’t bother me, everyone is different, but I immediately felt we were sexually incompatible. Nothing more here, Dreaming. I gave her what she wanted; poor me.

 

My boss that I've known for seven or so years said something inappropriate to me last week

 

This is a whole other can of worms ‘cause you work for the guy and yeah, your husband deserves to know about it. Completely different situation than mine, I’ve only known this woman a month.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts, and I wish you the best with your work situation.

[S2B]

Like energy attracts. Have you worked on your FOO to get past your history?

 

I'd start there. And personally, from someone who's been there, I wouldn't choose anyone with an abusive history - it affects EVERYTHING they say/do unless they've completely addressed their history and worked hard to get PAST it.

[CommittedToThis]

Like energy attracts. Have you worked on your FOO to get past your history?

 

Thank you S2B! Absolutely working on FOO issues, I am attuned.

 

Well, she wrote me (under 4 different email addresses no less, to bypass the "recipient not found" message I bounced back) as well as leaving 6 voice messages, and I think she's textbook PD:

 

You asked me for the truth and I gave it to you. It's the same truth as when I first told you my concerns about contractor coming over Saturday but not coming to do work.

 

She never told me she had any concerns about contractor beforehand. Gaslighting.

 

I never said he was hitting on me. You came up with that.

 

Gaslighting.

 

It made me feel uncomfortable and I was glad when you got back and I made a point to call you my boyfriend when I introduced you in an effort to make sure there was no misunderstandings on his part.

 

Why would there be misunderstanding on his part? Deception.

 

I would hope it would never be a mistake to talk to you and express any concerns that I might have about life, the universe or anything or anyone.

 

Passive-aggression.

 

Unfortunately, you have me confused with someone else who is not innocent. But I am innocent.

 

Gaslighting, denial.

 

I hope you will see that and reconsider, but obviously, if you've lost all trust in all women and relationships then there is no point. So sad.

 

Passive-aggression, generalizing, condescension.

 

Please call me when you calm down and can think straight.

 

Gaslighting, projection, belittlement.

 

You are such an awesome person and I could so see us forever. You gave me hope there was a man that really excited me, made me laugh, made me comfortable, made my heart beat hard with joy.

 

Love-bombing, false future projection.

 

Hope she stops calling and messaging me and gets the point. I told her if she messed with me I'm gone. Here's hoping she's not sociopathic, otherwise a call to the lawyer is in order.

[mikeylo]

Thank you S2B! Absolutely working on FOO issues, I am attuned.

 

Well, she wrote me (under 4 different email addresses no less, to bypass the "recipient not found" message I bounced back) as well as leaving 6 voice messages, and I think she's textbook PD:

 

 

 

She never told me she had any concerns about contractor beforehand. Gaslighting.

 

 

 

Gaslighting.

 

 

 

Why would there be misunderstanding on his part? Deception.

 

 

 

Passive-aggression.

 

 

 

Gaslighting, denial.

 

 

 

Passive-aggression, generalizing, condescension.

 

 

 

Gaslighting, projection, belittlement.

 

 

 

Love-bombing, false future projection.

 

Hope she stops calling and messaging me and gets the point. I told her if she messed with me I'm gone. Here's hoping she's not sociopathic, otherwise a call to the lawyer is in order.

 

Oh boy ! I'm so glad she is out of your life !

[CommittedToThis]

She's definitely PD, here's the latest missive. You see, we haven't even been together a month and she loved me from first sight. Poor me missing out on all this goodness.

 

To everyone: I have my uNPDexgf to thank for giving me the tools to detect garbage like this. Ex was "angry" too -- about everything in life.

 

Enjoy this and try not to laugh.

 

If we are indeed permanently damaged goods from our childhoods, then I dare say that amounts to a good 80 to 90 percent of the entire population of the world. And if you didn't get a hard knock early in life then surely at sometime as an adult you got the rug pulled out from under your feet. And if you're the remaining few that got to skate through life then I think you couldn't be all that strong as the rest of us survivors. The survival techniques that got us through the tough times, indeed, are not relevant and useful today. So I agree, counseling could redirect the fighter in us to the calm, loving person in us. My therapist once asked me: How does holding on to the anger benefit you today?

 

I thought the anger was residual. I didn't realize that I was an active participant. Since that day, I've had a serenity I've never experienced before. There is no purpose for the anger and it only hurts me. No one else.

 

The day my child was born, I loved him. The day I met you, I loved you. I don't care right now if you don't want me to say that, if you don't want to hear me. I still have a right to speak. I beg you to listen. I know I can't make you.

 

So, if the majority of us are damaged goods, then how do we survive? Do we alienate ourselves? Do we continue to fall into the same hole each and every time? Who do we expect to hookup with, the weak one percent that escaped abuse? Are they going to see and know the real us? I doubt it. So who is going to be your soul mate?

 

Can we be whole? I say, yes.

 

We ARE better and smarter than those that fail. We can win this. But it takes two of like minds. Please don't write me off. I am real. I am here for us. Be a strong rock too. Solid. Unshakable. Fearless.

I love you.

[Herbalist]

Yeah you called it lol. Damn.