How many of you had a dday?

[Cyra]

How did you get there? I don't know why I can't see the love being an illusion. I really feel like I loved him. Does everyone get to a point where they see the love they felt as not real or are sometimes the feeling actually real? Maybe I'm still in some fog even though I feel like my head is pretty clear.

 

I got there by harsh and honest introspective.

I too believed and felt I really loved him, I have never felt like that for anyone before etc.

 

But now I realize it wasnt love at all. I realized I was addicted to drama and I perceive the highs and lows associated with an insecure relationship as love. While I hated it and it made me depressed and miserable, on those fleeting occasions when I felt good I felt not just good but elated.Without those extremes I dont feel like I feel anything at all.

 

He was also a distraction for me from all other issues in my life. I came up with an analogy of a person with multiple debts who takes a huge loan to repay them and then spends it on fun. He was my huge loan - he took my attention away from all the areas of my life that were lacking and I focused all my attention and energy on him. Everything revolved around him, the way I felt depended on him. When he was gone, I was suddenly forced to look at those multiple debts again that have never been addressed, but I no longer had a distraction to take my mind away from them.

 

So that is where I am now, facing all this emptiness and hopelessness in my life and nothing to give me a quick fix and that is really hard. I know that is the issue I have to resolve, along with my low self esteem and addiction to extreme emotions.

 

Now I know, he wasnt the one, he wasnt special, he just happened to be there and he fitted in with the ideal that my mind fabricated, so I could play out my drama and get my fix of the feel good brain chems.

 

I know my feeling devastated has nothing to do with him but everything to do with me and how I feel about myself, and that is something I am hoping to work out in therapy.

[elaine567]

This is the type of strong and decisive reaction I was talking about. Most times anything less than this results in fence sitting. The first piece of advise I'd give any new BS is to make sure the affair is dead, and there really only is 2 ways to do that. The first is initiating NC forever immediately, and the second is informing the other betrayed spouse or partner what their significant other has been up to. That's the surest way to kill it because now everybody is in CYA mode.

 

I agree to an extent, but if the BS forces the issue, then the WS did not do "the right thing" because he/she wanted to do "the right thing" of their own accord, but only because they had no other option.

Sounds a bit like "telling" a child that he is not allowed to hang out with George any longer, and putting all sorts of obstacles in his way, but the kids still meet up at the back of the mall anyway.

He has to want to stop seeing George for it to work.

 

I just think it may feel good to put all sorts of restrictions in place but if the WS doesn't really want to stop contact with the AP, then it may lull all into a false sense of security.

[cloche]

He confronted the two of us 6 months in.

 

I had separated and filed for divorce at this point, and was hoping that she would soon follow suit and join me. This might have been her moment to do so because he seemed to be inviting frank and open discussion as to just how we might all of us realign and move forward. He himself had ended a long term affair just a year or two prior - perhaps he saw this as his own way out too? I'll never really know.

 

Instead, however, she chose to deny the depth of our involvement and remain married while attempting to maneuver him into leaving her. And for reasons I never really understood, he seemed to *allow* her to leverage him into tolerating our ongoing relationship, which continued on for another 4 years.

 

Of the great many things I regret about this period of my life, this is the one single thing that I am most ashamed of; I should never have colluded with this appallingly selfish behavior.

[Grapesofwrath]

 

This fog thing still confuses me. I read a lot about it on here. I read a lot about it when my husband had his LTA too. It seems that any feelings a MM/MW has for their AP is just a fog and not real. It doesn't make much sense to me because I did in fact love my AP. I don't want the A back, I regret the A and wish it never happened but my feelings for him were very real. I don't feel like I was in some strange fog and all of a sudden on dday woke up thinking, "I never loved him and it was all fake." Maybe I'm alone in that too lol

 

I think the fog can also mean the delusional thinking that comes along with the A. By that I mean, the excuses and rationalizations that we make to allow ourselves to do something that we know is fundamentally wrong. It's what allows us to compromise our morals and ethics. The thoughts that tell us our situation is different/special/justifiable. I think that's also "the fog."

[malvern99]

I agree to an extent, but if the BS forces the issue, then the WS did not do "the right thing" because he/she wanted to do "the right thing" of their own accord, but only because they had no other option.

Sounds a bit like "telling" a child that he is not allowed to hang out with George any longer, and putting all sorts of obstacles in his way, but the kids still meet up at the back of the mall anyway.

He has to want to stop seeing George for it to work.

 

I just think it may feel good to put all sorts of restrictions in place but if the WS doesn't really want to stop contact with the AP, then it may lull all into a false sense of security.

 

I realized right away that no matter what I did, I could never control my fWW (not that I would want to). So I gave my fWW the choice. I didn't make the choice for her. I made it clear she was free to go and explore a relationship with her AP. I wasn't going to stand in her way. That was option 1. Option 2 was to give her a chance to try and rebuild our marriage. It would likely be the hardest thing we have ever had to do. There would be some boundaries set and consequences for breaking them, but I would give reconciling my best shot. The decision was completely hers. There was no option 3 in my eyes. I was not prepared to sit in limbo while she sat on the fence and I told her so.

 

I guess I was fortunate that she really wanted to be there. She worked her tail off and it paid off for us. If at any point during that process, I'd have felt that her heart wasn't in it, I'd have pulled the trigger and filed for divorce. I wasn't interested in a marriage held together by a sense of duty. I deserved better and so did she.

[Birdies]

I think the fog can also mean the delusional thinking that comes along with the A. By that I mean, the excuses and rationalizations that we make to allow ourselves to do something that we know is fundamentally wrong. It's what allows us to compromise our morals and ethics. The thoughts that tell us our situation is different/special/justifiable. I think that's also "the fog."

 

Wow that's really insightful. Yes. I struggle every day with how I could have done something so appallingly and deliberately cruel, and for so long, to the person who I loved the most in the whole world. I am a kind, loving, empathetic person. How on earth could i have done all of this. Yes I was resentful of him, yes he was not being the partner he had promised to be, yes he took me utterly for granted - but how on earth could I have leveraged those very hurtful but benignly neglectful failings into me justifying what I was doing. Really working on understanding that one.

 

An affair is such a slippery slope - at least for the married / committed AP. You take one teeny small step over the line, then another, then another, and suddenly you're looking across the deepest widest abyss over to where normal and moral behavior is and wondering how the hell you got there, yet it still feels "normal" or "justifiable" in some completely illogical way.

 

ETA: and to answer the original question, we did have a D-Day. His xW filed for divorce immediately (which was what he wanted all along - conflict avoidant guy, exacerbated by her untreated emotional disorder). My xH and I took several months to let the dust settle and try to make a rational decision about how to move forward. Now both divorced (me vaguely amicably, him super acrimoniously on her part) and exploring a relationship. I think full NC can only work when the wayward spouses really really want to fix their marriages, and I felt that things were too far gone to commit to that : /

Edited November 3, 2016 by Birdies
answered the question

[DKT3]

Wow that's really insightful. Yes. I struggle every day with how I could have done something so appallingly and deliberately cruel, and for so long, to the person who I loved the most in the whole world. I am a kind, loving, empathetic person. How on earth could i have done all of this. Yes I was resentful of him, yes he was not being the partner he had promised to be, yes he took me utterly for granted - but how on earth could I have leveraged those very hurtful but benignly neglectful failings into me justifying what I was doing. Really working on understanding that one.

 

An affair is such a slippery slope - at least for the married / committed AP. You take one teeny small step over the line, then another, then another, and suddenly you're looking across the deepest widest abyss over to where normal and moral behavior is and wondering how the hell you got there, yet it still feels "normal" or "justifiable" in some completely illogical way.

 

ETA: and to answer the original question, we did have a D-Day. His xW filed for divorce immediately (which was what he wanted all along - conflict avoidant guy, exacerbated by her untreated emotional disorder). My xH and I took several months to let the dust settle and try to make a rational decision about how to move forward. Now both divorced (me vaguely amicably, him super acrimoniously on her part) and exploring a relationship. I think full NC can only work when the wayward spouses really really want to fix their marriages, and I felt that things were too far gone to commit to that : /

The question I believe you will face in the future is was your marriage really gone or were you too afraid to stand and face the fallout. It's pretty common to stand at the starting line longing for the finish line which the the case of infidelity recovery is a twisted path with tall grass. Looks like too much to overcome. Secondly with this guy in the picture it's a question you will never be able to answer, one of those can't take back moments.

[Birdies]

The question I believe you will face in the future is was your marriage really gone or were you too afraid to stand and face the fallout. It's pretty common to stand at the starting line longing for the finish line which the the case of infidelity recovery is a twisted path with tall grass. Looks like too much to overcome. Secondly with this guy in the picture it's a question you will never be able to answer, one of those can't take back moments.

 

Yes, that is absolutely true on both counts. I had been with my now exH for 15 years, so obviously I know him very well and am pretty confident that the things that were causing me such high levels of resentment are permanently ingrained traits. (He really believed that he would change, and I believed him for a long time because he was so sincere in believing it and is a good honest person. But he did not actually put in the work or make the changes. Not that that justifies an affair, of course.)

 

But, I agree - I also know that the picture is utterly muddied with the OM in the picture still, and I know that re-writing marital history is a common coping mechanisms for wayward spouses. I'm trying to fight against that, while allowing myself to realize that I was a lot unhappier than I allowed myself to admit at the time.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Birdies

[Southern Sun]

It's sad to say that xMM and I had a few D Days that did NOT end our affair. A few "semi" ones for him and a big fat one for me. Didn't stop it. Should have.

 

However, in some ways, I am grateful for the way it ended rather than it being a D Day. I ended it. I finally walked away, just me. Instead of it being some outside force like a D Day, or even a mutual break-up, I pulled the wool from my eyes just enough to close the door on the affair myself, with no one else's influence. Took me long enough, good lord, but finally I did it. And a month or so later I initiated my own "D Day" by confessing.

[HappyAgain2014]

I've been following a thread about how people's long term affairs ended. It seems in that thread that most people ended their A's on their own. It's just got me wondering how many of you had a dday and were forced to go NC.

 

I initiated dday, therefore I chose NC.

[HelenaS]

We had a dday, but it didn't end the A - it continued for another half year.

As for the affair fog: we've been in NC for 8 months and I see everything much clearer now, but I still think that the feelings were real and I'm not into this whole fog theory.

I tend to agree with the below approach, which calls the 'affair fog' an 'excuse smog':

 

Affair Fog Theory: Excuse Smog ? Infidelity Help Group

[Lillyp32]

We had a dday, but it didn't end the A - it continued for another half year.

As for the affair fog: we've been in NC for 8 months and I see everything much clearer now, but I still think that the feelings were real and I'm not into this whole fog theory.

I tend to agree with the below approach, which calls the 'affair fog' an 'excuse smog':

 

Affair Fog Theory: Excuse Smog ? Infidelity Help Group

 

I just read this article the other day and agreed with it as well

[DKT3]

That's actually a pretty terrible article, not so much about fog and such, but it suggests the opposite, that it's the BS who is delusional.

 

Of course a BS is looking for something to grasp on to since this wasn't something they choose, but it was dropped on them. But they aren't the one who put everything on the line for for something near impossible to maintain.

[HelenaS]

I disagree.

You need to know that this is a reconciliation-neutral site, but not because they blame the BS for anything - on the contrary, it's because they want to protect the BS and in their experience the reconciliation most of the times don't go in favour of the BS who needs to compromise a lot and put up with all the bull****, while the WS many times don't put much effort into it.

I do like this no-bull**** approach, but I understand that it's not for everyone.

[DKT3]

I disagree.

You need to know that this is a reconciliation-neutral site, but not because they blame the BS for anything - on the contrary, it's because they want to protect the BS and in their experience the reconciliation most of the times don't go in favour of the BS who needs to compromise a lot and put up with all the bull****, while the WS many times don't put much effort into it.

I do like this no-bull**** approach, but I understand that it's not for everyone.

 

Even in reconciliation you have different POV....my wife and I are happy now after infidelity. However our views of the journey are completely different.

 

The fog is very real, is it an excuse? Absolutely not, but the truth is people in affairs do change, not only towards the spouse but also towards kids, family and friends. Now I don't believe it's a shift from their behavior at its core, because infidelity is never, ever an isolated incident, rather a culmination of years of behavior. However I've seen very attentive mothers place less attention on kids to focus on OM. That is a break from her norm but can be inline with her core values which can be selfish.

[Lillyp32]

That's actually a pretty terrible article, not so much about fog and such, but it suggests the opposite, that it's the BS who is delusional.

 

Of course a BS is looking for something to grasp on to since this wasn't something they choose, but it was dropped on them. But they aren't the one who put everything on the line for for something near impossible to maintain.

 

I didn't see it as suggesting that the BS is delusional and I agree about the BS trying to grasp on to something because affairs are down right devastating. I'm not even sure that devastating is a strong enough word for the feeling that comes with being betrayed like that. Either way, the BS is attempting to make sense if something that is completely senseless. It's a very difficult place to be.

 

I feel like the article is more or less about not letting the BS sort of blame the choices that their wayward made to have the affair as a "fog" that somehow took away their conscious actions. The wayward isnt in some weird delusional state that takes away any control they have over what they're doing. They're doing it simply because they want to. They make a conscious choice to have an affair every day that they engage in it. End of story.

[HelenaS]

I feel like the article is more or less about not letting the BS sort of blame the choices that their wayward made to have the affair as a "fog" that somehow took away their conscious actions. The wayward isnt in some weird delusional state that takes away any control they have over what they're doing. They're doing it simply because they want to. They make a conscious choice to have an affair every day that they engage in it. End of story.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking, I guess I just couldn't explain it properly

To not let the WS 'get away with it', saying that they were in some kind of fog. They weren't. They made bad choices on purpose.

 

However, I also agree with DKT3 on this:

"Absolutely not, but the truth is people in affairs do change, not only towards the spouse but also towards kids, family and friends."

 

I just think that it's not because of some fog.

[Lillyp32]

However, I also agree with DKT3 on this:

"Absolutely not, but the truth is people in affairs do change, not only towards the spouse but also towards kids, family and friends."

 

I just think that it's not because of some fog.

 

I agree with this too. These changes can also happen in a relationship that isn't an affair as well though. It's a matter of priorities.

[Whoknew30]

Fog doesn't necessarily mean feelings aren't real, but it does mean the relationship isn't real, it exists in the bubble that only allows the AP's to enter, in this bubble the irrational becomes rational. An escape from the mundane tasks of day to day life. Like going into wonderland.

 

People love all the time sometimes the negative side effects will outweigh that love and make the relationship impossible to maintain. For whatever reason it doesn't happen with affair relationships or else you wouldn't have them.

 

Most people I've come across that have had affairs and become stronger because of it always say WTF was I thinking...that is the fog. You aren't there yet, but you will get there

 

An unhealthy relationship is still real...the feelings, even clouded are real. It was a relationship, there was sex, there was conversation, kisses, hugs.

 

I compare it to eating processed food vs oragantic...it may not be "real" food but you ate it, it filled you & you're now full or like someone being VIP for a night that usually isn't...you know it's for just that night & you're everyday life isn't going to be that way but that night you experience its extremely real.

 

Unhealthy & secret doesn't equal "not real"...

[heartwhole]

Re affairs changing people (some kind of external fog at play) . . . all I know is my own experience as a BW. Of course the affair or some fog or magical OW didn't change him. The affair was a symptom of his flaws. But at the same time, it did exaggerate his flaws. Never before or since has he been so selfish, so short-tempered, so cruel. It was like he just stopped trying to have empathy or put others first and told himself he was entitled to break the rules. And now that the affair is behind us, he is trying so hard to be a man of character who gives to others and finds joy in the giving, not the receiving.

 

During the affair he bizarrely started pushing me away and setting me up for conflict. I remember thinking, "This is weird, but no thank you, I won't play that game," and when I could have fallen into his trap and "justified" his choices by acting like the wicked witch, instead I chose positivity. I remember being so hurt by his actions but thinking, "This is still the man I married. I need to give him the benefit of the doubt," and reaching out to him in good faith. On some level he was looking for me to dish it back to him to so he could say, "See! She's so awful! Thank goodness my sweet OW understands me!"

 

Sometimes the What If's loom big in my mind. What if I had been negative right back to him? Could we have dug ourselves out of this mess then? Would he have left me if I "made it easy"? But then I realize, no, because I'm always me. I did what I would always have done. And without more self-awareness and better coping skills, then his entitlement would have manifested itself in some way, even without an affair. So I don't second guess all of this, even knowing that at one point in time, he desperately wanted the OW, and wanted me to play the part to make leaving me OK. And he did that because he had poor boundaries and judgment and allowed an attachment to grow when he should have been an honorable man and dealt with conflict in his marriage instead of procuring a secret girlfriend. So then he had to figure out what to do about that attachment. Such a pity . . . so much pain for no good reason. Because I was me all along, and I know he will spend the rest of his life sorry that he lost sight of that.

 

He now calls the "fog" negative confirmation bias . . . that he did the opposite of what I did. I saw his hurtful actions but thought, "Well, this is odd, but I'll just consider it a blip and give him the benefit of the doubt and try to reconnect." He saw actions on my part that had nothing to do with him (fatigue from a health condition) and internalized it as rejection and proof that I didn't care.

[SnowWhiteWins]

We had a DDay when I discovered 12+ years of infidelity with a long chain of OW. He had 4 currently "active" on DDay. None of them knew about each other. One OW was the "main player" in that she was madly in love with my WH and wanted to leave her BH for him. She talked of running away with him to Florida (OUR future dream!!! Lol) WH told me he told her he loved her, once, out of awkwardness. I'm no idiot. I know he said it over and over, and probably even thought he meant it at times (I told him this and he didn't deny it.)

 

On DDay, I was cool as a cucumber. Told him we would be amazing coparents to our three young children. I am very financially independent. I offered him a very amicable divorce. 50/50 custody. 50/50 split of assets (even though I outearned him the entire marriage).

 

He fell to the floor, screaming and crying and begging me the "cold, neglectful, roommate wife" to change my mind. To PLEASE forgive him. Screaming to Jesus to forgive him. He immediately got into individual counseling, NC'd all OW.

 

Six months later I tentatively offered R. Now we're 14 months out, still with much work to do, but he said last night that he's never felt more content in his life. Like a 1000lb weight has been lifted, not living a lie anymore. Not hiding.

 

I never forced NC. He just did it without my asking. Nothing like a wife willing to walk away to blow said "fog" wide open. That was not my goal, either. I really was done. And he knew it.

 

The wife in me does not feel bad for OW. The flawed human in me feels great compassion for her. She must have been heartbroken. I hope she stops hurting herself (and other innocent wives), but I wouldn't bet on it. Last I heard, she had a new boyfriend. Oh well, not my circus, not my monkeys.

[BuddyX]

1000lbs weight. Funny how they can take off the weight at any time but they conveniently drop at on DDay

[sandylee1]

I agree to an extent, but if the BS forces the issue, then the WS did not do "the right thing" because he/she wanted to do "the right thing" of their own accord, but only because they had no other option.

Sounds a bit like "telling" a child that he is not allowed to hang out with George any longer, and putting all sorts of obstacles in his way, but the kids still meet up at the back of the mall anyway.

He has to want to stop seeing George for it to work.

 

I just think it may feel good to put all sorts of restrictions in place but if the WS doesn't really want to stop contact with the AP, then it may lull all into a false sense of security.

 

I have to say I disagree with this. The BS isn't forced to stop contacting the AP. They are forced to stop having their cake and eating it. They can absolutely continue contact with the AP, BUT then the marriage is over.

 

Gone is the point of WS doing the right thing once they've had an A. The biggest wrong thing hasbeen done.

 

On.dday so many BS tell the WS they can go, but the WS doesn't want to. Because they were happy with having their spouse and the AP.

 

I think decisive actions gives the BS some power and following through is required, to stop the A going underground.

[uneek74]

11 years and a few DDays

[SnowWhiteWins]

"1000lbs weight. Funny how they can take off the weight at any time but they conveniently drop at on DDay"

 

Yeah, pretty much seems the way of it in general, huh? He wouldn't have said that in the first few .months after DDay. Those were some dark, dark, dark days. But now, coming through the other side of triage mode, digging into our deep s**t, focusing on each other only, yes--im sure he does feel much lighter. Myself, I am more mindful in my day to day life. Taking joy in simple things. More patient and empathetic. Regardless of whether or not our marriage survives, I am determined to be a better person, to choose happiness (it is a choice after all). I know this would not have been possible without this nuclear bomb in my life. Bizarre but true.