Advantage evidence of infidelity ?

[betacharlie]

Hi All,

 

I live in CA- San Francisco suburb. I had been suspecting that my husband has an affair with his colleague (senior) in the office and he had denied it the last time I confronted him 2 months ago. Anyhow, I didn't trust him and put a VAR in his bag, I found out as expected that he has been going to her place regularly and they are involved sexually ( the VAR recorded kissing sounds and some intimate talks).

 

We currently live together, he is already on probation for a Domestic Violence case that happened last year in which I was the victim.I supported him and now this ! Anyway, now that I am deciding to separate I wanted to know that is there any benefit in gathering evidence regarding his infidelity from a legal standpoint ? I am told that CA is a no fault state and as such having proof of infidelity will not have any impact on Alimony etc. maybe some spousal support. I DO NOT WANT his money but I just want consequences for him.

I am not sure if calling the company HR would help as I was told that what two individuals do outside office is their business.

Some people tell me that I should gather some evidence even if this is a no fault state as it might help me down the line (I am not sure how though), other say its no point.

 

Also, I have not confronted him or told him anything yet. i was foolish enough to ask him a day after I found if he is having sexual relationships outside the marriage and he categorically said 'NO'. So i just said OK and went and slept inside.

 

Has anyone been in a similar situation ? Any advice ?

 

Thanks.

Edited November 6, 2016 by betacharlie

[dreamingoftigers]

It's bound to benefit you somewhere down the line, even if it isn't legally. Which in CA, ISNT LIKELY.

[oldshirt]

Those are questions for a divorce lawyer in your jurisdiction.

 

Also ask about the VAR laws. In some areas it is not legal to record people's conversations without their knowledge and consent.

 

It's doubtful that anyone would try to prosecute you for recording their conversations, but it may not be admissible to use in court.

[betacharlie]

Those are questions for a divorce lawyer in your jurisdiction.

 

Also ask about the VAR laws. In some areas it is not legal to record people's conversations without their knowledge and consent.

 

It's doubtful that anyone would try to prosecute you for recording their conversations, but it may not be admissible to use in court.

 

 

I have taken opinions from 3 lawyers and they mentioned that infidelity will not have a significant impact, maybe something regarding the spousal support, but people who actually got divorced tell me another story and have been advising me to document, journal and find as much proof as possible. I am just confused as to why I need to stay and gather evidence if it does not even provide any benefit, I already know he is cheating but I am told otherwise by some folks who actually got divorced. They say it helps in establishing a general character of the person and can weigh the judgement in my favor ( whatever that means).

[Mr. Lucky]

I DO NOT WANT his money but I just want consequences for him.

 

 

I have taken opinions from 3 lawyers and they mentioned that infidelity will not have a significant impact, maybe something regarding the spousal support, but people who actually got divorced tell me another story and have been advising me to document, journal and find as much proof as possible. I am just confused as to why I need to stay and gather evidence if it does not even provide any benefit, I already know he is cheating but I am told otherwise by some folks who actually got divorced. They say it helps in establishing a general character of the person and can weigh the judgement in my favor ( whatever that means).

 

I thnk you need some clarity in what you want. The two quotes above seem to be opposing points of view.

 

If it's not about money, might be best to just expedite the divorce and get on with your life...

 

Mr. Lucky

[betacharlie]

Hi All,

 

I initially posted this in Seperation and Divorce forum but it seems to belong here so reposting.

 

I live in CA- San Francisco suburb. I had been suspecting that my husband has an affair with his colleague (senior) in the office and he had denied it the last time I confronted him 2 months ago. Anyhow, I didn't trust him and put a VAR in his bag, I found out as expected that he has been going to her place regularly and they are involved sexually ( the VAR recorded kissing sounds and some intimate talks).

 

We currently live together, he is already on probation for a Domestic Violence case that happened last year in which I was the victim.I supported him and now this ! Anyway, now that I am deciding to separate I wanted to know that is there any benefit in gathering evidence regarding his infidelity from a legal standpoint ? I am told that CA is a no fault state and as such having proof of infidelity will not have any impact on Alimony etc. maybe some spousal support. I DO NOT WANT his money but I just want consequences for him.

I am not sure if calling the company HR would help as I was told that what two individuals do outside office is their business.

Some people tell me that I should gather some evidence even if this is a no fault state as it might help me down the line (I am not sure how though), other say its no point.

 

Also, I have not confronted him or told him anything yet. i was foolish enough to ask him a day after I found if he is having sexual relationships outside the marriage and he categorically said 'NO'. So i just said OK and went and slept inside.

 

I basically want to know if there is any real benefit in keeping evidence of infidelity or is it just my obsession ? My husband is on Domestic Violence probation for violence he committed against me last year.I still tried to make it work but it seems impossible now.

Has anyone been in a similar situation ? Any advice ?

 

Thanks

[Grapesofwrath]

Beta: First, I am very sorry to hear of your troubles. I would say that, first and foremost, you need to focus on your safety and the safety of your children (if you have any.) By this I mean, I would not confront your husband alone with accusations of infidelity or even divorce papers. Given his history of domestic violence, you are at risk for further harm. Please please please consult an attorney as soon as possible to get solid legal advice and to protect yourself. Contact a trusted friend or family member to make a plan for your safety. This includes access to needed funds for food, shelter, and basic necessities. It is an option to have police present when he is served with divorce papers, should you need that in order to protect yourself. Again, a family law attorney will understand how that process works.

 

As for the usefulness of evidence of infidelity: In my experience, it will make no difference in the outcome of the financial settlement of the case. In California, infidelity is not factored into the financial judgement. What is of more weight is his history of domestic violence against you. This speaks to character much moreso than infidelity in the eyes of the court. Battery is a crime. Infidelity is not. History of violence will also affect custody, if there are children, which in turn can affect child support.

 

As for reporting to HR, if they have a relationship where one reports to the other, then there can be a sexual harassment claim in play, but that is something that one of the involved parties would have to file at work, not something you can do as an outside party. (There is also precedent for another employee to file a sexual harassment claim asserting that he/she was denied certain opportunities or promotions because of their affair. This is less common, but possible.) If you were to out them to their employers, this would surely be embarrassing, but I'm not certain there are any legal consequences.

 

Again, first thing is to create a plan for safety. Consult an attorney and find out your options. Make a statement to your attorney so there is a legal record of the situation.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Grapesofwrath

[RecentChange]

FYI, I am in California - and as a part of earning my sociology degree - we had to become very familiar with the laws regarding consent and data collection.

 

VARs are illegal in California.

 

It's illegal to record conversations without explicit consent.

 

The only time it's legal to voice record someone without consent in CA is in a plublic space which does not have "any reasonable expectation of privacy"

 

So you can record people talking on a street corner, but not a public bathroom for instance.

 

And you may not record someone in private spaces (home, car etc) without consent (or a warrant if LE).

 

Sorry you are going through this - but I would not present your VAR evidence to the court. While infidelity is immoral, VAR recording is illegal - and courts deal with laws, not morals.

[aileD]

Send the recordings to his boss and his mother

[BetrayedH]

I was also in a no fault state during my divorce from my wayward wife.

 

Here's what I would urge you to consider. Few cases actually end up in court before a judge. I don't know about CA but in FL, judges don't want to deal with your nonsense about whose fault it is or how to split up the dog. So they want couples to mediate between themselves. In FL it's actually mandatory to make the attempt. The vast majority of divorces are done via a marital settlement agreement. Some couples do it on their own. Some do it jointly with one attorney advising them. Most do it with separate attorneys who haggle out the division of everything.

 

Anyway, that just gives you some context. What I found is that the last thing my wayward wife wanted was for her whole sordid affair to be made into a public ordeal. She did NOT want to go to court. And the fact that I had so many print-outs of her depravity gave me big leverage to get what I wanted out of the settlement.

 

Like you, I didn't really want money. Frankly, I just wanted an equitable split of the debts and assets and I wanted 50/50 custody of the kids. She declined. She thought she could intimidate me through her lawyers. It took us 10 months to get to our scheduled mediation day. They tried. I stuck to my guns. When it was clear that I was walking out the door and ready to go to court, she folded.

 

Anyway, leverage is one benefit. I can also tell you that waywards will commonly lie to everyone when it comes to the reason for your divorce. He'll paint you as some controlling nag that he had to divorce. You may get some satisfaction from being able to show the truth to friends and family via hardcopy.

 

And while it may not legally get you anything, it may help you prevent from being screwed. Judges commonly make an early assessment (conscious or not) about who the good and bad guys are in a divorce. And they may not hand you everything, but they may also help make sure you don't get victimized yet again in the divorce. It happens.

 

In my view, it's better safe than sorry. While VAR recordings may be illegal, you can likely find loads of other data and proof. I'd play stupid and compliant until you do.

 

And don't bother with a confrontation. Let the service of the papers serve as your confrontation. It may be tempting to have him served at work, but then you lose that threat of exposure.

 

Anywho, it's something to consider.

Edited November 8, 2016 by BetrayedH

[l8estnews]

If you are already sure that there's no effect whatsoever if you have evidence, then just file for separation BEFORE you talk to your husband. This is blatant cheating and lying.

 

Ugh, I hate these kinds of monsters.

[Lion Heart]

I also live in a "no fault divorce" country but THANK GOODNESS The Steps of Divorce here (regarding Financial Settlement and custody of the children) TAKE the minutae very seriously INDEED.

 

I absolutely second Mr Luckys outline but I didn't have to stay to gather more evidence.

 

Those who HAVEN'T been through the process in YOUR jurisdiction will not know.

 

It's those who've come OUT THE OTHER SIDE with exactly what they hoped for (except a faithful spouse ofcourse) are the people to seek out.

 

This all happened serendipitously for me and I played THAT "game" as sick and twisted as it is. Fight fire with fire basically but be very clever, cool, calm & procedural.

ALWAYS stay inside the Law and no one will be pointing the finger at you.

 

We have a (long) Mediation process available here, nothing in these matters here CAN go "straight to Court".

I say long because THAT'S the game.

 

Absolutely WH will spread ALL SORTS about you lol. Tell him to knock himself out trying!

It's WH WHO HAS A DV charge against him.

ExWH here tried. I'm an ANGEL compared to him lol.

 

Judges SEE THESE SITUATIONS VERY CLEARLY and indeed the Judge in my jurisdiction has recently given two BWs the lot because of ongoing affairs & mismanagement of finances. The judge saw wayward abusive men and judged very appropriately IMHO.

 

Aren't I a lucky woman?

 

Just get all the support you can.

 

I'm also from a DV M. There are OUTLINES of the steps to take all over the place to GET WH OUT without further risk of harm to you or children.

 

Best wishes

Lion Heart

[Midwestmissy]

Is the other woman married? If so, maybe her husband would like to somehow find out.

[BetrayedH]

Is the other woman married? If so, maybe her husband would like to somehow find out.

 

That was also a piece of leverage I used. But eventually I told the other spouse, simply because they deserved to know.

[Midwestmissy]

I told the obs the day I found out. Turns out he already knew (gee thanks) and believed his ww that it was ok for her and my wh to work one on one. But they were odd, she'd been married to her husband's brother, then cheated with now husband. It was not a refined classy group. I was so upset that he had known and said nothing that I blurted out some graphic details. Considering how old we all are, it's all pretty graphic in the light of day, lol. It was a pretty weird family, not kinky or sexy or evolved or sophisticated weird, just white trashy and weird.

[OneLov]

CA Penal Code Sec. 632

 

(a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.  If the person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section or Section 631, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, the person shall be punished by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

 

 

The only thing sharing the recording with a 3rd party can do is get you in a bunch of trouble. I would destroy it since you got the evidence you need.

[oldshirt]

CA Penal Code Sec. 632

 

(a) Every person who, intentionally and without the consent of all parties to a confidential communication, by means of any electronic amplifying or recording device, eavesdrops upon or records the confidential communication, whether the communication is carried on among the parties in the presence of one another or by means of a telegraph, telephone, or other device, except a radio, shall be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars ($2,500), or imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.  If the person has previously been convicted of a violation of this section or Section 631, 632.5, 632.6, 632.7, or 636, the person shall be punished by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding one year, or in the state prison, or by both that fine and imprisonment.

 

 

The only thing sharing the recording with a 3rd party can do is get you in a bunch of trouble. I would destroy it since you got the evidence you need.

 

 

No, don't destroy it. Noone is going to go through the trouble of charging and prossecuting a BW who simply wanted to know if her H is cheating or not.

 

It won't be admissible in open court but it can still be played by your attorney to his attorney while they are haggling over the details. It may even be played to the judge in his office if it contains some kind of information that he may be lying about.

 

And it can certainly be used privately if there are any relatives or inlaws that think you are the one making stuff up.