Define Cheating.........

[Iluvsiamese]

What is your definition of cheating?? Is it going all the way, making out, what?

 

I read an interesting article in Cosmo about Stag parties and there was a sideline of poll results as to what constitued cheating. Some of the votes were weird. For example, french kissing was considered by most of the males and females who answered the poll to be cheating. However, only a few of each considered touching the strippers nude bodies or dancing with them to be cheating. I found that a bit odd and began to wonder what can be considered cheating. I have read a bit on the subject here and there and have rethought my own definition of cheating--a few times!

 

Can you cheat emotionally? or is it only physical? And how far do things have to go before it is cheating? Where do you draw the line?

[youjustconfuseme]

I think if you are in a relationship with someone where you have shared feelings and physical contact and you feel a connection with that person and you flirt with a girl online or in person then that is an aspect of cheating, as you are breaking the trust and the bond that couples have.

 

I have cheated in the past and never will again as I know how it feels when it is done to me, it really hurts and all trust is just gone and very hard to (if it's possible) earn that back, why make the bond with someone you care about only to hurt them down the track?.

[Iluvsiamese]

Interesting.

 

One bit that surprised me is that men are much less "forgiving" wrt their concept of cheating than women. I would have thought that it was the other way round. On the issues of strip clubs, porn, and flirting, either online or in person, women have often come out with the attitude that it is harmless fun. Men tend to take a different view, depending on if they are personally involved. I think that there are many times that it is harmless fun, but there is always a point where it becomes something else, and this is where things get tricky--defining where that point is.

 

I think that there are times when, technically, it is not cheating but it is certainly headed in that direction. The playing with temptation to see what will happen next scenario. The intent to cheat isn't there, but the intent NOT to cheat isn't there either. How does one handle this without seeming like an unreasonable, jealous nut?

[LucreziaBorgia]

Can you cheat emotionally? or is it only physical? And how far do things have to go before it is cheating? Where do you draw the line?

 

I think that there are times when, technically, it is not cheating but it is certainly headed in that direction. The playing with temptation to see what will happen next scenario. The intent to cheat isn't there, but the intent NOT to cheat isn't there either. How does one handle this without seeming like an unreasonable, jealous nut?

 

What constitutes cheating differs between people, and between relationships. I think what it comes down to is "cheating is whatever you are doing that crosses your partner's jealousy threshold". Is it cheating? Maybe, maybe not - but if your partner sees it as cheating then for all intents and purposes in your relationship it is. The line is wherever your partner draws it for you and wherever you draw it for them. Unfortunately, stuff like that is like lines in the sand: because what constitutes cheating for someone might not be so, if the motivations or their justifications for it allow them to do it anyway. How far do things have to go? Only when you go far enough where you know your partner will be upset by what you are doing.

 

The intent to cheat (heading in that direction) is pretty much making cheating a matter of time. The only thing stopping it would be for you or the OP to lose whatever motivations made you want to be with each other. Unfortunately, its pretty rare for both to just say "um.. nevermind", so between pressure and weakness there comes a time where one of them will give in sucking the other one down with them.

 

How to handle it? By not questioning the action, but why the person is doing said action. If your partner is doing something you think is cheating, your partner needs to know (calmly and as objectively as possible - if you use anger or threats you are giving them the justification they want in order to erase those lines in the sand). By being direct, objective, calm and very firm on how and why you feel the way you do.

 

a. what specifically it is he/she is doing that you don't like

b. why you don't like it - how it makes you feel

c. what the repercussions are to the relationship

 

Give your partner and equal chance to give you their side of things. This is their time to stand up for they feel in this situation. Decide between the both of you if there is room for compromise. At any rate: both of you need to lay your cards down and really be honest with each other right now. This means setting the stage for a minimum of anger, shouting, fighting, crying, pouting - or any other forms of passive aggressive behavior or emotional blackmail. People who don't feel comfortable being truthful in a situation will almost alway lie to avoid confrontation - particularly when it comes to this.

 

This puts the ball in your partner's court. They know what it is you don't like, and should they continue to do it - they will have to understand that by choosing to cheat they have chosen to do so with full knowledge of what it is they have done, that it will hurt you, and that the repercussions meant less to them than being with the OP. If they still do it, then you will have to decide what it is you want to do: stay with someone who has with full knowledge of your feelings, betrayed them (with high chances of it happening again if they get away with it) ... or stick to your guns and solidly enforce those repercussions (ie: ending the relationship).

[lindya]

Cheating, I think, is when you really don't take the relationship seriously but are kidding onto your partner that you do. Disloyalty. Failing to stick up for your partner when others are subtly belittling them behind their back but in your presence. Developing a platonic friendship with someone who you know, or suspect, is crushing on you - and discussing private details/taking advice about your relationship with that person instead of talking to your partner. Actions such as those do more long-term damage than the physical sex that so often accompanies them. I think most of us assume that if our partner has had sex with someone else during their relationship with us, then they will also have commited those other acts of betrayal.

[Iluvsiamese]

Very well put. I think that there is so much that is assumed in relationships that this is where many get into trouble. People assume that their SO has the same standards as they do and each assumes that their set of rules is the correct one. While there are some universal "rights," there are many others that are only right for the person in question. The key is to know what is acceptable for you and what is not and if you can understand and accept your partner's "rules" and respect them.

 

Just a sideline--is there ever a time when you should step in and put a stop to questionable behaviour towards your partner from another person? I have been in situation (with my ex) where another person was engaging him in physical behaviour that I felt was inappropriate. His excuse was that he couldn't stop her (and I thought he was a big boy, lol.) I told him that if he had stood up and introduced her to his wife, it would have accomplished a couple of things quite nicely. 1) he would not have had a lap for her to be dancing in and 2) he would have made it clear that he wasn't available for said dancing. Both without being unnecessarily rude. At the time, I tolerated the behaviour and spoke to him about it afterwards. However, I made it clear to him that I wouldn't be as sweet about it again and I have told my current guy that I have limitations with what I will tolerate.

 

The subject came up when he was relating a story about one of the wives in a group of couples who were friends. Apparently, when she drinks she gets very amorous with all of the other guys. She comes on to each of them in turn throughout the evening and it escalates with her intake. His take was that it's harmless. However, I think that she is making a pretty big statement about herself, her husband, her marriage and her friends and it ought to stop. At some point, it will be one of those lethal combinations and things will go too far. He can understand where I am coming from but I don't think that he thinks that it is something that the other wives should be upset about or should involve themselves in. However, if the men aren't putting a stop to it, should the women say "enough already?"

[Cecelius]

Originally posted by Iluvsiamese

She comes on to each of them in turn throughout the evening and it escalates with her intake. His take was that it's harmless. However, I think that she is making a pretty big statement about herself, her husband, her marriage and her friends and it ought to stop. At some point, it will be one of those lethal combinations and things will go too far. He can understand where I am coming from but I don't think that he thinks that it is something that the other wives should be upset about or should involve themselves in. However, if the men aren't putting a stop to it, should the women say "enough already?"

 

The men are not putting a stop to it, but they are all thanking God that she's not their wife...

[Iluvsiamese]

I'll bet that they are!

 

But at the same time, if they aren't stopping it, is it because they are enjoying it? I would find it embarrassing (and certainly not enjoyable) to have some drunk guy (friend or otherwise) constantly hitting on me all night especially when it started getting pretty raunchy. I would also be sure to put a stop to it because I am certain that my guy would plough him into next week if I didn't and I would surely hear about it the fact that I didn't call a halt, as well.

 

So what gives? Are they too embarrassed to put a stop to it or are they hoping that their wives will do it or do they really enjoy it?

[Reflection]

Any sexual behavior involving another person besides your SO or yourself. This includes all forms, so yes, you can cheat online (video chat, emails). And yes, I definitely think touching a stripper would be cheating. The way I see it, if I would consider it cheating if they were doing the exact same thing in the privacy of our bedroom, then it's cheating no matter where it's done.

[RecordProducer]

I think individually everyone has drawn the line more or less. For women everything is cheating. Men differ in their views. While some would think that cheating is only if you go further than a French kiss, some might think that even admiring someone (having a little crush) is cheating.

Double standards make the line vague; while we could flirt with someone and consider it completely innocent as far as no feelings or physical contact are involved, we tend to be very jealous if our partner does the same.

We need to make a difference between being jealous of a certain situation and consider it as cheating. I can be jealous if my partner looks at women, talks to them, watches them naked, dances with them or visit s strip bar once, but objectively it's not cheating.

In my opinion, the definition is: when you feel like you've cheated - it's cheating.

I would say touching a stripper's breasts or getting an erection for another woman I would consider as cheating. The desire or intention to sleep or even spend time with another person of the opposite sex is technically not cheating but it hurts almost as bad.

A Norwegian actress Liv Ullman said once: "If you love, you won't cheat; if you don't love, there is no one to cheat on."

[Sal Paradise]

I think lap dances can be considered cheating, especially when they have a happy ending. Just as grinding on the dance floor to me is cheating. Dance clubs are as bad as strip clubs in that regard.

 

Cheating to me is doing anything with this other person you wouldn't feel comfortable doing in front of your SO. Or doing anything that would upset your SO if they were present.

[Iluvsiamese]

Interesting mention of the differences between men and women and the double standard. I have found that men are much less forgiving alot of the time with what they consider to be cheating when it's their SO that is doing it. Even some times when it's their buddy's SO. There are things their men do that women will take with a grain of salt but that would send their men into a tailspin if they felt that the same thing was happening. Is this a difference in the sexes mentality or is it conditioning to some extent? Many women are comfortable with their men going to strip joints, viewing porn, flirting, etc. but the men, on the other hand, are sooooo not there much of the time.

 

Wrt my question about my SO being so obsessed with his ex, women's responses have been very blase while men are quick to raise the red flag and tell me to be careful. I was pretty surprised as I expected the opposite reactions. Is this a true difference in the way women and men think?

 

So perhaps the real question is how do you get a feel for your SO's concept of what goes and what doesn't before an explosive situation arises? I confess, I have been taken completely off guard a few times by what was considered to be perfectly innocent by a former SO while my concept was that it was completely unacceptable.

[RecordProducer]

Hm... well some people are more jealous than others and some want to create a silent agreement about what they would like to do. Some are more insecure than others. We're all different. But there is a difference between the sexes overall.

I think generally men are jealous if anything leads to cheating. My ex-husband was a lousy husband and he was jealous of the men who liked me, because it meant to him that I can easily replace him. He even accused me of cheating for no reason. I never cheated on him nor did I have the desire. Plus I trusted him completely cuz that's the kind of person I am.

[Nocturnal]

Anything beyond making out, is probably the best way I can describe it. Kissing, even with a bit of tounge, is fair game to me. But if it would become more serious and they would start touching areas that should be reserved for intimite situations, in my opinion, that's where I draw the line. My girl and I are borth flirts, it's in our nature, and as such we don't feel the need to kid ourselves. So we've set a standard that we both could agree upon. It was one of the first topics we discussed when we entered our relationship. Which is something I think everyone should do with their partner as soon as possible in a new relationship. To save heartache and confusion.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by Nocturnal

So we've set a standard that we both could agree upon. It was one of the first topics we discussed when we entered our relationship. Which is something I think everyone should do with their partner as soon as possible in a new relationship. To save heartache and confusion.

 

Excellent suggestion!

[Iluvsiamese]

I agree that it is necessary to have that discussion, but raising the subject can sometimes be dicey. One of the incidents that I was referring to was where my bf (of long ago) decided to stay overnight with his ex-gf, alone--there was no one else in the house. I felt that that was out of line given that he and I had left and gone home and he announced that he was going back there to be with her as she had told him that she wanted to be alone with him. It may have been innocent, but it surely didn't look that way and I doubt if he would have accepted that behaviour from me. He couldn't see what my problem was with this. I don't think that this qualifies as irrational jealousy but he thought that it was.

 

In raising the subject with your SO, it is necessary to know what you consider to be fair game and what you don't. I think that alot of people would have difficulty clearly defining what that is. Perhaps that is because they haven't given alot of thought to it. Much of the differences in the concepts originates with the differences in backgrounds--different experiences (as in having been cheated on before or having had little experience in dating) and different attitudes within their family. Someone who has been raised in an environment where nudity (for example) was viewed as normal would have quite different ideas from someone who was raised in a prudish environment. Sometimes it is the opposite of what one would think. And then there are times when you find yourself in a situation that you hadn't considered in your definition of cheating but discover that you are pretty unhappy about it. This is where having discussion and input from others is helpful. One absolute necessity is being brutally honest with yourself. There is no point in setting yourself up by agreeing to something to please your partner and then finding out that it is eating you alive because you weren't really ok with it in the first place.

 

And then, of course, there is the old "gut feeling." It's one of those things that I really hate in a way. Everything looks ok, appearances are fine, there is nothing you can put your finger on or point to, it's just that feeling that something is wrong. It's like the feeling that you are being watched but you can't see anyone near you. It's kind of hard to say to someone, "Look, I have the feeling that something is wrong so I think that I will just dump you." You can't even make an accusation. The thing is, in my experience, the gut feeling is seldom wrong and trying to talk to the other person about it seldom solved the problem.

[Iluvsiamese]

One more thought.......your expectations of a relationship or of the person you are involved with can alter your concept of cheating. Meaning what you accept from one person is not what you would accept from another.

[aprilnartaprilnart]

My saying is dont do anything that you would not do in front of your spouse.If you do to me that is cheating