Maybe it's not YOUR "love story"

[MidnightBlue1980]

choice yes. A bad choice. Does remorse count nothing at all?..

 

If there was one bullet and it could hit my husband or OM , without second thought I would go covering my H. It feels so bad rationalising but guess I have to keep doing it. Karma.

 

If there was one bullet, I'd be in jail since I'd be pulling the trigger.

 

And this is why I do not own a gun.

[freengreen]

If there was one bullet, I'd be in jail since I'd be pulling the trigger.

 

And this is why I do not own a gun.

lol!.. all gun ( power)to you!

[Cabin]

So choices and mistakes are mutually exclusive?

 

Choices can't *be* mistakes?

 

That's one thing I love/hate about these boards... people find such comfort in black and white thinking. The comfort seems stabilizing...

[ladydesigner]

MB I was actually partially thinking of you....all of the things you've shared. How many times have we seen it, the lies, false reconciliation. And maybe reading so much on LS gives a skewed view of things...not sure.

Like another poster said, we tend to see so many sad and hurtful stories not always positive.

And the truth is no one here really knows another's stories and struggles. We have a small window into a large room..

 

A couple of years ago I had a co-worker try to make passes at me. Yes I flirted I was tempted. He told me he had, had an affair a couple of years prior. He and his wife had done counseling. They'd gone through so much and reconciled. He said he was happy grateful she forgave him.

Yet here he was trying to get it on with me...I said how can you do this after everything you guys went through. After she forgave you and you've worked hard. Ultimately nothing at all happened. I loved my husband (then) could not imagine hurting him that way for something so senseless. And none of it seemed worth it to me. I felt bad for her.

 

He still occasionally will attempt to say things to me or hint at things. And it truly repulses me.

 

So maybe I just have a skewed view....or a more realistic view. For every "love story" you also have pretend one sided "love story".

 

Isn't that the truth!

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

 

My H was famous for this. First, not answering the question that was actually asked. Second, for giving a carefully thought out answer. See. He could love his wife and want it to work out and fix this mess. But if he told you that, it would slam the door shut for him continuing the A someday. Plus if it gets back to his wife he can say he never said he didn't love her. He can tell his wife he told you he wasn't going to leave her. Which is technically true....but not the way that you understood his answer. See? They career their answered to fit it situations so their words can't come back to haunt them.

 

yeah. he is a pathological liar. I will say my response without thinking was, don't leave for me, I'm not leaving my husband. And I meant it too.

I'm done. He is the most horrible person I ever met in my whole life. My husband said that if he was hanging off a cliff, he'd kick him off and not bc he slept with me but bc of how he abused me all year. He would like to see him dead.

[aileD]

This is the perspective I see an affair from too. Hardly a romantic view of the marriage invaded by the affair JMHO.

 

Contrary to popular beliefs and the affairland fantasy world, real lasting love is often messy and flawed and forgiving.

 

This is why affairs often fizzle out once they hit the real world.

[Southern Sun]

Ya sorry I don't buy it.....we all tell ourselves what we need to, to justify staying or ending it. Whatever we need to believe to move forward.

 

Are there marraiges who have been hurt and been damaged by an A. And somehow come out better on the other side? Of course there are. But í think it's a small percentage, where that is truly the case. That's my opinion so to say it's just a blip in a long story is bs. It's not a blip many times it's cataclysmic.....otherwise you wouldn't have posters still posting here year after year after year....

 

This is pretty skewed though...you do not have the 10,000 foot view. What about all the millions of people who do NOT post on LS? The people who find their way here are typically in pain. Those that stay are often unresolved. Some stay to help of course. And many who do not find their way here are due to reasons other than being "content" or reconciled. But you have to be careful about making judgments on the outcome of marriages after infidelity based upon what you see on an internet forum.

 

I know there are scientific stats out there. But it's a bit hard to really quantify them. Some marriages recover from the infidelity and then divorce years later, supposedly due to some other reason. Why was it really? Hard to say. The US has a 50% divorce rate and that's not even the highest one!

 

I saw your other comment too, about the man who hit on you who is married (who said he had recovered from infidelity...I think). You said it made you cynical. I agree, it certainly can. But for every married man who hits on a person, there are who-knows-how-many that don't. I think we become hyper-focused on things that affect us. It's like when I was trying to get pregnant, I noticed every single pregnant person. Now they pass by me like everyone else. There are a lot more NON-pregnant people than otherwise. But that's not what we see, when it's personally affecting us.

[DKT3]

I think is also works in reverse, sometimes when people have affairs that end marriages it's easier for them to view reconciliation from affairs and less then fruitful and a failure waiting to happen. They often speak of "EVERYONE" being better off. It's can be said it's largely guilt ridden, failing to face that THEY caused damage to the marriage, and the children

[wmacbride]

Ya sorry I don't buy it.....we all tell ourselves what we need to, to justify staying or ending it. Whatever we need to believe to move forward.

 

Are there marraiges who have been hurt and been damaged by an A. And somehow come out better on the other side? Of course there are. But í think it's a small percentage, where that is truly the case. That's my opinion so to say it's just a blip in a long story is bs. It's not a blip many times it's cataclysmic.....otherwise you wouldn't have posters still posting here year after year after year....

 

Wow, there are some pretty big assumptions in this post.

 

While I won't say that every marriage is peachy keen after an A, to assume that almost every marriage will come out worse is just as much of a stretch of the truth.

 

Every situation is different, and while I can understand the impulse to assume that most marriages that have been affected by infidelity will be forever broken, that simply isn't true. Sure,there are situations where the ws is so broken that a healthy and happy marriage with them is not possible for the bs. The ws is what they are at there most fundamental part of their personality, and that can't change.

 

In other situations, the spouses are able to move past the A.

 

As I said, some people can learn,grow and change. Others can't. If this wasn't the case, then everyone who was ever in an A would be doomed to forever be in that type of relationship because they can't learn from their poor choices. That doesn't happen. Many ow/om learn from their choice to enter an A and will never, ever do it again. It was a one time only occurrence that they will never repeat.

 

Why is that same benefit of the doubt not extended to the ws as well?

 

please note that I am not referring to serial cheaters. that is a different kettle of fish.

[freengreen]

There are different kinds of people:

Who actually realise it is wrong on everyone involved and stop it

Who actually realise it is wrong on everyone involved and do it anyway

 

They can not be all generalised. Please.

[DKT3]

There are different kinds of people:

Who actually realise it is wrong on everyone involved and stop it

Who actually realise it is wrong on everyone involved and do it anyway

 

They can not be all generalised. Please.

Infidelity is like baking a cake....no matter the ingredients the process is the same and in the end it's still a cake, looks different, taste different but a cake.

[goodyblue]

You can have a bad period of 10 years and come through it. Does that mean you're not in love? That it wasn't a good marriage? That you're not souls mates? I don't believe that

 

That is exactly what it means. Jesus, why let someone waste ten years of your life? If it is ten bad years, the 'love' is not enough.

[Quiet Storm]

I think if you look at the affair like an addiction, it's easier to understand how a marriage can overcome it. If a couple faces it like addiction, it's not a death sentence to the marriage. It's a sign that someone needs help. There's a weak link in the chain that needs attention.

 

Many people are emotionally stunted. They have poor coping skills, poor boundaries, avoid conflict, are weak, etc. Often, these people will end up in addictions or affairs.

 

People involved with a married person will often believe the affair manifests because of the connection that is shared within the affair. From their perspective, the affair is very much about two individuals and their bond.

 

If you view the affair like an addiction, the person involved with the spouse becomes irrelevant. Just like the particular drug of choice is irrelevant in an addiction. Its not about the alcohol or the heroin or the OW. It's about the cheater or the addicts character flaws, which manifest in the form of an affair or an addiction.

 

This is plausible to many betrayed spouses because they have known their spouse for years and have noticed the poor coping skills, conflict avoidance, inability to self soothe, emotional instability, etc.

 

In addition, people with character flaws often develop unhealthy attractions that are rooted in unresolved childhood issues (such as abandonment, neglect, abuse, daddy issues, etc.). So the BS is often not seeing the affair as some great romance, but as two messed up people who were drawn to each other because of their own dysfunctional personalities.

 

This view often results in the BS handling their spouses actions in a clinical way, instead of romanticizing the affair and taking it personally. They aren't thinking "OMG, he doesn't love me anymore! He loves OW! How could he do this to us? How could he disrespect me and our marriage?" Instead the thought process is more like a spouse that discovers their partners addiction "OK, finally I have answers! Maybe now that he has hit bottom and risked it all, he will finally get help."

 

I think if OW would consider this perspective, the choice to reconcile would be more understandable. This isn't about MM & OW, or about MM & BW. It's about MM. His actions aren't a true reflection of his feelings about their spouse or the relationship. He is just handling his life like dysfunctional people do- by lying, avoiding, escaping. When talking to an addict or a cheater, you will notice they are very into themselves and focusing on their feelings. They want to feel better, they want to feel happy, they want to feel something, anything...

 

Depending on the person, the character issues could result in alcoholism, porn addiction, dependence on pain pills, gambling their savings away, affairs, etc. It's not surprising that a MM would say, "I love OW and our connection is intense" . Its also not surprising that those feelings aren't taken seriously by his wife or a counselor. It's not a lie, but it's not a declaration of healthy, romantic love.

 

In the depths of addiction, the addict isn't loving his wife, his kids- he loves the drug. If he gets sober and goes to therapy, learns coping skills, learns to handle conflict instead of escaping...there's a chance for recovery. Like a sober former addict who looks back on their addiction and can't believe how they treated their family, a person who has ended their affair and gotten help often looks back on the affair the same way. How could I do that?

 

Marriage is like a long novel with many chapters. Some chapters will not read like a love story, but these chapters don't have to dictate the outcome. People aren't all emotionally stable self aware individuals. We are often products of our upbringings, experinces and circumstances. We often get married before we have our individual issues worked out. People can be weak, selfish and impulsive- but it's possible to evolve into a better person. If people take steps to overcome their weaknesses and shortcomings, that weak link can grow stronger, which also can strengthen the marriage.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Quiet Storm

[jah526]

I think if you look at the affair like an addiction, it's easier to understand how a marriage can overcome it.

 

I think that's a really good way to look at it. Reading this, I was reminded of a book I read about alcoholism called Drinking: A Love Story. People caught up in an affair are in love with the chemicals it produces, the high they get from it, just like alcohol or any other drug.

[DKT3]

The whole addiction thing is viable, however there are still a ton of boundaries broken and trust betrayed before you ever get to that point. It doesn't excuse the actions in the journey to get there.

 

My favorite phase is "I never planned or a intended this" what a load of.....

Edited November 22, 2016 by DKT3

[Southern Sun]

 

Marriage is like a long novel with many chapters. Some chapters will not read like a love story, but these chapters don't have to dictate the outcome. People aren't all emotionally stable self aware individuals. We are often products of our upbringings, experinces and circumstances. We often get married before we have our individual issues worked out. People can be weak, selfish and impulsive- but it's possible to evolve into a better person. If people take steps to overcome their weaknesses and shortcomings, that weak link can grow stronger, which also can strengthen the marriage.

 

This I agree with.

 

Not that I think we should all anticipate some form of infidelity. NOT at all. In fact, in a perfect scenario, all of our chapters would be lovely. But life is not lovely. Whether we create our own crises or the universe hands them to us, we WILL go through difficult times. And if you are married for more than 15 years - if it's a long marriage with children it will be 30+ - you are going to face many ups and downs together. I think most people just aren't prepared for the ride. We really don't know what "for better or for worse" means. I don't mean that people have to stick it out with a person who is taking advantage of you or abusing you or betraying you. Your line is your line. But really, we just aren't told how difficult a marriage relationship really can be...how difficult LIFE can be.

[DKT3]

This I agree with.

 

Not that I think we should all anticipate some form of infidelity. NOT at all. In fact, in a perfect scenario, all of our chapters would be lovely. But life is not lovely. Whether we create our own crises or the universe hands them to us, we WILL go through difficult times. And if you are married for more than 15 years - if it's a long marriage with children it will be 30+ - you are going to face many ups and downs together. I think most people just aren't prepared for the ride. We really don't know what "for better or for worse" means. I don't mean that people have to stick it out with a person who is taking advantage of you or abusing you or betraying you. Your line is your line. But really, we just aren't told how difficult a marriage relationship really can be...how difficult LIFE can be.

 

Yes, it's made far more difficult for those who buy into the theory of soulmates and fairytale love. These ideologies forces one to think relationship are easy and always on a high.s sometimes life takes over the relationship itself is forced to take a back seat.

 

I believe the major appeal of affairs, especially for women, is its a relationship dedicated 100% to the relationship. All passionate all the time, the loving part is passionate, the fights are even more passionate but all about the relationship. Marriage become about kids, bills, logistics, obligations, jobs and then sleep. No comparison.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I think that's a really good way to look at it. Reading this, I was reminded of a book I read about alcoholism called Drinking: A Love Story. People caught up in an affair are in love with the chemicals it produces, the high they get from it, just like alcohol or any other drug.

 

I read this book and your post is dead on. Believe it or don't believe it, it is an addiction. And I read somewhere here that it takes a year before the WS feels remorse - this is also dead on. I imagine that is because it takes a year to get past the "high" from the affair. Once it finally fades, after a year for me, you start to think, what did I do to my life and so on. Most people think this thought from the confines of either their new marriage to the AP, a railroad apartment after their divorce, or if they are really lucky, their same home to their BS. I'm lucky to be in the 3rd category. Most aren't.

 

I post this knowing people will probably not read it, not understand it (because it scared them), say it's BS, I'm this or that, but here is the thing - until you have walked in the shoes of someone in the grips of the affair high, you can't understand it. It's not logical by any means. You truly are a drug addict and you should not make any decisions, let alone go and divorce or marry someone new.

[DKT3]

I read this book and your post is dead on. Believe it or don't believe it, it is an addiction. And I read somewhere here that it takes a year before the WS feels remorse - this is also dead on. I imagine that is because it takes a year to get past the "high" from the affair. Once it finally fades, after a year for me, you start to think, what did I do to my life and so on. Most people think this thought from the confines of either their new marriage to the AP, a railroad apartment after their divorce, or if they are really lucky, their same home to their BS. I'm lucky to be in the 3rd category. Most aren't.

 

I post this knowing people will probably not read it, not understand it (because it scared them), say it's BS, I'm this or that, but here is the thing - until you have walked in the shoes of someone in the grips of the affair high, you can't understand it. It's not logical by any means. You truly are a drug addict and you should not make any decisions, let alone go and divorce or marry someone new.

I'm not sure anyone disagrees, my point is you don't become a crackhead without smoking crack, and in that is the problem. Getting there you have to willing intentionally cross boundaries and betray trust.

 

So while it my be an addiction, having an addiction doesn't excuse or explain why you did it in the first place.

[jah526]

So while it my be an addiction, having an addiction doesn't excuse or explain why you did it in the first place.

 

That's true, but I think seeing an affair as an addiction can help a person involved in one start to see things more objectively - as something giving a temporary high but ultimately causing destruction to oneself and those around them. And that may lead to a pathway out.

[MidnightBlue1980]

That's true, but I think seeing an affair as an addiction can help a person involved in one start to see things more objectively - as something giving a temporary high but ultimately causing destruction to oneself and those around them. And that may lead to a pathway out.

 

Much as Quiet Storm said (excellent post), people who have affairs generally have a lot of personal issues, issues which go way back in time and are probably never going to be fixed. When they have affairs, like Quiet said, it's really not about the AP, it could be anybody who was willing. It is about the unresolved issues within themselves.

 

The best people like this can do is be aware of these issues and act accordingly, not put themselves in bad situations. Some of us can be self aware and can change. We are hardly the perfect prize spouse though and it is up to the other party to decide whether or not we are worth the risk. I would not blame anyone for walking.

 

But it's about how much you are willing to take - how many times do you watch your spouse relapse. There is love and then there is codependency. Many people love a project and fixer upper.

 

On the other hand if 50% of people cheat, we can't all have issues.

[waterwoman]

On the other hand if 50% of people cheat, we can't all have issues.

 

Well I guess you have to define the term 'issues'. Whatever the norm is I doubt many human beings alive today conform to it. In fact in my 51 years on this planet I have yet to meet a perfect person without weaknesses and problems. So I would imagine that 50% of the population could very well have issues or some kind or other.

 

My youngest son is on the autistic spectrum. A lot of his traits are quite similar to his father. H works at a special school so he tested himself and found he is also on the spectrum to a lesser extent to our son. I see traits in my father and my nephew that mirror those of my son. Most people who tested themselves would find themselves on the autistic spectrum - just at different points. I strongly feel that is the case for all kinds of emotional issues. There isn't a sudden cut off point where people stop having issues and start being 'normal'. And certain circumstances can make those issues far stronger and troublesome and more apt to lead to undesirable behaviours.

 

We all get tempted by all manner of things, and some of us don't resist for many reasons. Add to that the fact that we have been lead to believe it's a good thing to go for what we want it's not at all surprising to me.

[cocorico]

I think if you look at the affair like an addiction, it's easier to understand how a marriage can overcome it. If a couple faces it like addiction, it's not a death sentence to the marriage. It's a sign that someone needs help. There's a weak link in the chain that needs attention.

 

 

I agree that viewing an A in this way can make it easier for a BS to overcome it. But it is also a high risk strategy. I know of several Ms where one spouse (usually the W) pathologised the H in this way, projecting M problems onto the H rather than facing them as M problems. In almost all cases, the H -having tried to get the W to face up to M problems and repeatedly being told that *they* had / were the problem - went on to have an A, and then later left the M. (In the others, they bypassed he A and went directly for D.) In each case, the xW still blames it on MLC / pathological H in some way - this despite these men being very happily paired in new Ms without such problems. If the problem had been the H, it would have followed them into their next R. That it didn't suggests deep denial on the part of the xW.

 

Not every couple is meant to be, or to stay, together. Sometimes people find others to whom they are better matched. Sometimes they find others to whom they think they are better matched, and then discover it's not so. But if a R has a problem, blaming one party exclusively and pathologising the other person may help to rug sweep in the short term - but longer term doesn't address the real issues.

 

(And yes, sometimes it is all one person's "fault". But grabbing hold of that as if it's necessarily true in all cases can lead to disaster.)

[Southern Sun]

Yes, it's made far more difficult for those who buy into the theory of soulmates and fairytale love. These ideologies forces one to think relationship are easy and always on a high.s sometimes life takes over the relationship itself is forced to take a back seat.

 

I believe the major appeal of affairs, especially for women, is its a relationship dedicated 100% to the relationship. All passionate all the time, the loving part is passionate, the fights are even more passionate but all about the relationship. Marriage become about kids, bills, logistics, obligations, jobs and then sleep. No comparison.

 

I'm late to respond to this, but I have to say - this is totally freakin' brilliant. I've never heard it said like this, but I think it is TRUTH.