Is anything going on

[Marc878]

You have insight that many do not have at this time. Keep that info hidden/safe.

[Sweetfish]

You have insight that many do not have at this time. Keep that info hidden/safe.

 

 

The next stage is her being the victim.

 

How you weren't X Y and Z.

[turnera]

Drone, please don't think you can reconcile if she keeps that job. You'll be going back and forth for YEARS if they continue to be in contact.

 

What have you told her has to happen now?

[Sparta]

OP hang in there buddy... please keep us up-to-date.

[Drone117]

Morally no question, but he may not be able legally to kick her out of the house.

He needs to act within the law and he needs to show he is the reasonable one too if he wants to see his kids and have a stable family unit going forward.

Warring parents cause a huge amount of damage to kids, he needs to think of them.

 

I agree. In addition to that, in reality if I use "Dear CEO and the board, my wife slept with one of your star employees, please do something about it" route (which is so much against my core by the way) she's more likely to be fired and less likely to find another job soon then him.

 

While it sounds like a good karma and all, doing this to a mother of my kid at the time I'm asking her to leave and especially in a new country where she doesn't have a family doesn't sound like the most noble thing to do to me. Kind of I'm not going to yell, call her names or raise a hand, even when she told me herself she deserves it.

 

She told me she's going to find another job. Not in a context of ending an affair as it seems bit because she's "you know that girl who slept with..." now. The same day her pass is revoked I'm exposing him high and low.

[Drone117]

How long has it been going on?

 

Without being too specific, he started flirting with her 4 month ago when they started to work together. In September he made the first move which she rejected..

Not strong enough, he doubled the effort resulting her walking with him to his room, on a business trip (not the last one I posted about, an earlier one). The last one was the first time they extended their stay beyond the work part to spend more time together. That was the reason for no charges in the statement and expense report. She told him her husband knows and crushed he's not reaching back to her (despite she told him to stop contact, where is the logic?).

 

 

Has she tried to blame shift or TT?

 

Don't know what TT is. She's telling me substantially less then i know. Blaming me? Have to say no. Couple of times when hysterical she screamed "wish you were this or that, stopped me, and all" but immediately apologised and stated she didn't mean that.

 

 

Any sign or remorse or just regret?

What's the difference?

 

 

Is she still posting to her diary?

Yes, but just barely, guess not on a best shape to do that.

 

 

The next stage is her being the victim. How you weren't X Y and Z.

As I wrote earlier in this post.

 

 

What have you told her has to happen now?

Told her to make her mind, while I'm not accepting the situation and moving with separation or divorce.

[aileD]

Tt is trickle truth. Is she telling you s little...then a little more (worse)....then a little more...etc. is she not coming fully clean all at once. ?

[Marc878]

The way she's acting. I wouldn't jump up and offer R. Have you informed your friend (husband of her coworker)? She's obviously in the loop. Enabler or at least helped hide it from her husband too.

[BuddyX]

Save for abuse, Do Not apologize. She's doing this to you. The moment her Entitlement trumped your commitment she lost all respect.

 

Gather all info. Stay strong my friend.

[drifter777]

Since OP has her diary I'm not sure there will be much trickle-truth involved with this affair. He knows much more than she realizes so the only damaging thing she can do is continue her lying ways.

 

OP - she is afraid you are going to divorce her so you are in a rare position to use that to extract other truths. Like you could tell her how disgusted you are with all her lying and that she is continuing it even now. Then say something like "ok - here's a chance for you to be completely truthful. Is this the first or only time you have cheated on me?" Remind her how much you know about this affair and that your source is bulletproof so - do you want to come clean about everything? You might get an interesting answer.

[CommittedToThis]

The bottom line is a marriage is a partnership and if one side isn't being truthful about things like fidelity then that robs the other side from having the ability to make decisions based in reality.

 

Do you want to be a willing partner to someone without being given the respect of being truthful about the big picture?

 

I had an ex cheat on me and I didn't have the balls to throw her and her crap out on the street at the time. I wish I had, I didn't, but I learned my lesson.

 

Drone, I think you just need to leave her. She faked you, man. Deceptive and devious women are to be sold, not heard.

 

So sorry you had to go thru all this but it's making you a stronger, wiser man for the next woman who wants to be with you. And there are millions, man.

[spanz1]

Sorry dude. You WILL get thru this.

[Jersey born raised]

Getting it - remorse*

 

This post I wrote based on a comment made in response by a BW to another WW. *The WW had a one year adulterous PA & EA relationship with a MM cow. *The the P/A occurred when ever he traveled for work which often. *The WW wrote how when her husband traveled for work she found herself missing MOM and the relationship while refusing to break NC, except for work, and felt torn with the need to reach out to MOM. * In short she was filled with regret for the adultery, she mourned its ending and miss it. *This is the response a BW wrote to the WS

 

I'm a BS. I do have compassion & understanding. I recognize that this is a forum & NOT a portal into your brain!

 

You post what's on your mind & what you would like help with so PLEASE take this as nothing more than a rant from a BS who's telling you what I would love to happen in my life...not a criticism.

 

The BW continued: *When I read the above post my gut reaction is, "Ugh!! Another clueless WS!! She's so far from getting it!".*

 

As a WS your thoughts need to be.... 'When my H went out of town I would be excited because I knew I had all that time to spend with my AP. OMG!! My POOR HUSBAND he must be living a nightmare!! If I'm triggering like this he must be triggering 1,000,000,000,000 times WORSE!!'

 

To continue her line of thought. *Every time you smiled and hugged your AP was a stolen smile and hug from your BS. *You chose to leave your BS outside alone cold and alone on a winter nights while warm and comfortable in a home with the AP. *

 

You have heard the expression "makes life worth living"? *Somethings that expression are applied to are wrong. *There are moments that are life and without them there is no life. *Adultery destroys life because you have denied something to your spouse, given it to another, leaving your spouse to slowly writher and die on the vine. *

 

They NEED you to get-it, really truly get-it. I don't think few ever will. Without it I don't think a BS will ever heal.*

[kgcolonel]

Drone,

 

No infidelity in my marriage (as far as i know) which may give me a little more objective angle here.....

 

I would let her know that you and she are at a crossroads. She can begin to take steps to rebuild her credibility with you but it will only happen once, right now and never again. Truth the whole truth I would even note that even a small deviation from the truth for "what she may think is to spare your feelings, will result in divorce....you know it all, so the second she deviates from the truth, you can tell how earnest she is about reconciliation....remorse etc.

 

BTW, I can't really tell from your writings, I know that she's been crying, is it from losing the safe and secure, complete access the the kids and the "safe reliable" husband. Very sad but I know you deserve someone who both values and shares your values of fidelity and honesty.

[merrmeade]

Since OP has her diary I'm not sure there will be much trickle-truth involved with this affair. He knows much more than she realizes so the only damaging thing she can do is continue her lying ways.

 

OP - she is afraid you are going to divorce her so you are in a rare position to use that to extract other truths. Like you could tell her how disgusted you are with all her lying and that she is continuing it even now. Then say something like "ok - here's a chance for you to be completely truthful. Is this the first or only time you have cheated on me?" Remind her how much you know about this affair and that your source is bulletproof so - do you want to come clean about everything? You might get an interesting answer.

Have YOU ever tried this with a practiced gaslighter/TTer? To such a WS, these are just words. s/he will stare at the BS thinking and weighing the odds that - if s/he does not "come clean about everything" - the BS will find out some other way. You can even try threats along with it, such as, "If I find out you've been lying or hiding more than you've said, we're done." WS will also weigh actual possibilities BS will follow through with the threat. Lots of factors and with someone who's succeeded in keeping the BS in the dark before, WS will have to decide likelihood that BS actually might find out some other way. WS will be thinking all that - unless WS is truly remorseful. And that's a different everything.

[Jersey born raised]

Drone,

 

If you are in the US or England and she works for a large company her OM will be fired in many cases. My brothers company hired a CEO, moved him to the states, introduced him at a Christmas party, he proposition two female employes for he suggested a three way. They fired him the next morning and had his visa revoked. Now, the outgoing CEO had a wife and family in the states and another overseas. The company was not happy about it, but stayed out of it since it was not company related and no laws where broken (he never married the overseas wife.).

 

Why the difference? Lawyers and lawsuits. Yes she appeared willing but a good lawyer will say "appeared". She was given no choice since he was a star employee.

[drifter777]

Have YOU ever tried this with a practiced gaslighter/TTer? To such a WS, these are just words. s/he will stare at the BS thinking and weighing the odds that - if s/he does not "come clean about everything" - the BS will find out some other way. You can even try threats along with it, such as, "If I find out you've been lying or hiding more than you've said, we're done." WS will also weigh actual possibilities BS will follow through with the threat. Lots of factors and with someone who's succeeded in keeping the BS in the dark before, WS will have to decide likelihood that BS actually might find out some other way. WS will be thinking all that - unless WS is truly remorseful. And that's a different everything.

 

Yes, you are probably correct. I think it's worth a try though if OP is interested in the full truth about their marriage.

[harrybrown]

have her write you a timeline and diary of the A.

 

Has she outed the OM to his wife and his work and filed a sexual harrassment complaint?

 

or is she still protecting him ahead of you?

 

sorry but she is not who you thought, since she stabbed you in the back.

[Drone117]

Truth be told she is not trying to minimize the scope or extent of her involvement with him. In other words she's not trying to convince me "we were just friends, we were just flirting, we have just kissed, ...". She admitted it was physical, how long did it take (although she counts it from that f..g business trip), and that it was not some sort of drunken "Oh my God what have I done" in the morning encounter. So she gives me some sort of short narrative, similar to what I'm posting here in a way.

 

Her diary is indeed very detailed and explicit (wish it wasn't) but do you really expect her sitting me down and - without me pushing for it - giving me the same minute by minute report? Seriously?

 

If she makes her mind and comes up with this and other steps some of you suggested as a way of "saving the marriage", fine I'll take that for what it is. But I'm certainly not pushing for that just because I can. Nor am I begging her to stay with me. She seemed to be really involved with this guy and she keeps telling me "I know I lost you" so I think this is the likely outcome right now.

 

Crossroads is the right metaphor.

[Drone117]

have her write you a timeline and diary of the A.

 

Has she outed the OM to his wife and his work and filed a sexual harrassment complaint?

 

or is she still protecting him ahead of you?

 

sorry but she is not who you thought, since she stabbed you in the back.

 

Harassment? WTF? I know, she knows this was not a harassment. I wish it was, but it was not. I she'd do that I would think about her even lover than I do now.

[Jersey born raised]

Crossed post, info requested Drone just posted.

 

So Drone what are you doing with your marriage? What do you want if you divorce?

Edited December 12, 2016 by Jersey born raised

[Jersey born raised]

I know it is not harassment, but the company does not. Also from the companies POV better safe than sorry.

 

Oh, by the way what about her child's father? What is the wife doing to protect the father of her child?

[drifter777]

Truth be told she is not trying to minimize the scope or extent of her involvement with him. In other words she's not trying to convince me "we were just friends, we were just flirting, we have just kissed, ...". She admitted it was physical, how long did it take (although she counts it from that f..g business trip), and that it was not some sort of drunken "Oh my God what have I done" in the morning encounter. So she gives me some sort of short narrative, similar to what I'm posting here in a way.

 

Her diary is indeed very detailed and explicit (wish it wasn't) but do you really expect her sitting me down and - without me pushing for it - giving me the same minute by minute report? Seriously?

 

If she makes her mind and comes up with this and other steps some of you suggested as a way of "saving the marriage", fine I'll take that for what it is. But I'm certainly not pushing for that just because I can. Nor am I begging her to stay with me. She seemed to be really involved with this guy and she keeps telling me "I know I lost you" so I think this is the likely outcome right now.

 

Crossroads is the right metaphor.

 

You are right - a timeline now isn't of much value other than to test her for lies and it sounds like it's too late for that to matter.

 

Her acceptance of "losing you" and the ultimate end of your marriage must be painful - even though you are ready to divorce her anyway it is still tough facing such a cold reality. But in the longer run she is helping you in that the sooner you stop living with her the sooner you will begin to detach from her and begin to heal. I really am sorry all of this happened to you.

[kgcolonel]

Drone....is salvaging the relationship even in the cards for you? I remember your reference to Saint and Quit her job but after reading so many of these situations, I take the initial comments for what they are many times as a release or venting of extreme frustration, anger, hurt, betrayal etc.....

 

Have you had a chance or desire to have a conversation with her about next steps that you can classify as productive, not so much in putting it back together but in which way is this going to go?

 

Can you tell either from her or from the journal her contact / position with the jerk at work? It almost sounds as though she's given up without any kind of fight thus she really isn't all that into an attempted R....very sad for both you and your child.....

 

BTW, do you have a son or daughter....this will, sadly effect your child...very very sad she is so caught up in her own interests and not considering the child's interest and having an intact home.

 

One more (tiring I know) question, why do you think she is saying that she knew she's lost you....early responses or your disposition in general to cheating or something else?

[kgcolonel]

Candidly, I'll bet a month's wages....he's not nearly into her as much as she thinks....when she's now available, he'll move to someone else....He'll want strange.....this makes it all the more sad....