Is anything going on

[Sweetfish]

Truth be told she is not trying to minimize the scope or extent of her involvement with him. In other words she's not trying to convince me "we were just friends, we were just flirting, we have just kissed, ...". She admitted it was physical, how long did it take (although she counts it from that f..g business trip), and that it was not some sort of drunken "Oh my God what have I done" in the morning encounter. So she gives me some sort of short narrative, similar to what I'm posting here in a way.

 

Her diary is indeed very detailed and explicit (wish it wasn't) but do you really expect her sitting me down and - without me pushing for it - giving me the same minute by minute report? Seriously?

 

If she makes her mind and comes up with this and other steps some of you suggested as a way of "saving the marriage", fine I'll take that for what it is. But I'm certainly not pushing for that just because I can. Nor am I begging her to stay with me. She seemed to be really involved with this guy and she keeps telling me "I know I lost you" so I think this is the likely outcome right now.

 

Crossroads is the right metaphor.

 

 

As the days go by I see your becoming more and more level headed and logical. Good because you are making wise decisions and keeping calm. I'm glad you value your self that this doesn't become "war of the roses" per se.

 

No point than doing anything other than a divorce.

 

I wouldn't even react and stay silent and learn and research about the divorce process and when your done serve the papers.

[Birdies]

he started flirting with her 4 month ago when they started to work together. In September he made the first move which she rejected..

Not strong enough, he doubled the effort.

 

Actually that IS sexual harassment in the workplace! It's basically the exact definition of it.

 

I'm sorry this is happening to you. Hugs.

[turnera]

Truth be told she is not trying to minimize the scope or extent of her involvement with him. In other words she's not trying to convince me "we were just friends, we were just flirting, we have just kissed, ...". She admitted it was physical, how long did it take (although she counts it from that f..g business trip), and that it was not some sort of drunken "Oh my God what have I done" in the morning encounter. So she gives me some sort of short narrative, similar to what I'm posting here in a way.

 

Her diary is indeed very detailed and explicit (wish it wasn't) but do you really expect her sitting me down and - without me pushing for it - giving me the same minute by minute report? Seriously?

 

If she makes her mind and comes up with this and other steps some of you suggested as a way of "saving the marriage", fine I'll take that for what it is. But I'm certainly not pushing for that just because I can. Nor am I begging her to stay with me. She seemed to be really involved with this guy and she keeps telling me "I know I lost you" so I think this is the likely outcome right now.

 

Crossroads is the right metaphor.

Wait, so you're letting her decide if SHE wants to keep the marriage?

[Buckeye2]

She seemed to be really involved with this guy and she keeps telling me "I know I lost you" so I think this is the likely outcome right now.

 

She’s taking your lack of response as an answer. Either she’s torn between you and the OM or she wants the OM and feels guilty about moving on without you. Either way your lack of response reduces her stress and makes her feel better. That's why she keeps telling you that over and over. Plus she's confirming that the decision is out of her hands so she can’t be blamed. In her mind she’s saying I gave him chance after chance, don’t blame me.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Buckeye2

[Sweetfish]

Wait, so you're letting her decide if SHE wants to keep the marriage?

 

She’s taking your lack of response as an answer. Either she’s torn between you and the OM or she wants the OM and feels guilty about moving on without you. Either way your lack of response reduces her stress and makes her feel better. That's why she keeps telling you that over and over. Plus she's confirming that the decision is out of her hands so she can’t be blamed. In her mind she’s saying I gave him chance after chance, don’t blame me.

 

I'm baffled that you don't decide what YOU want for yourself?

 

Why does she decide? What about you? It looks kinda of like you've taken a bit of a doormat role at this juncture.

 

If I'm wrong then please clarify.

 

 

I think this is by far the manliest thing, I ve seen on this site yet.

 

The OP knows what he is dealing with... he is nor dumb or a doormat.

I highly doubt he wants to react either. I have a feeling he doesn't.

 

If he demands they stop seeing each other.. what does that do?

He can't kick her out of the house.

Fighting will resolve nothing.

 

The only thing to do is serve the divorce papers...

 

His attitude brings him power and value to the table.

[Drone117]

he started flirting with her 4 month ago when they started to work together. In September he made the first move which she rejected..

Not strong enough, he doubled the effort.

 

Actually that IS sexual harassment in the workplace! It's basically the exact definition of it.

 

I'm sorry this is happening to you. Hugs.

 

Thanks and you are right. By the book it is a canonical harassment. Only I know and she knows it wasn't a harassment. She had ample opportunities to stop him, she didn't, I don't count "uh, oh, I'm married".

 

If she files the complaint, how is it different when one of my subordinates who had his promotion denied because of pure incompetence found nothing better than file the bullying and racial discrimination against me?

 

I admit 2-3 times I ended up wishing badly for this to be a harassment, undue pressure, blackmail, so I can start forgiving her... It was not.

 

Of course it doesn't mean he's off the hook, but not by me pushing her to file the complaint.

[Drone117]

I'm baffled that you don't decide what YOU want for yourself?

 

Why does she decide? What about you? It looks kinda of like you've taken a bit of a doormat role at this juncture.

 

If I'm wrong then please clarify.

 

I will use this quote to reply to both you and Turnera. I don't mind being called "doormat" if I behave like one and correct my actions. So thank you for taking your time to respond and post. There are some things I will and won't do no matter what but this is besides the point.

 

Anyway I fail to see how my quoted post indicates that I'm not deciding what I want, that I left the authority to decide with her and that I ask - "please" type of ask i assume - her to consider saving they marriage.

 

Specifically following has happened so far.

 

- I told her about my intentions and next steps (separation, divorce, so on)

- Set up some ground rules, she's agreed to (although her reaction was not what I expected, i was actually going to ask for advice here)

- asked (yes, asked) her to let me know her intentions and next steps so we can move on. She agreed to this as well but admitted she is lost, doesn't know what to do, and what do I think she should do next as she "doesn't want us to end like this". That's where I replied she needs to make her mind and decide what she wants to do wrt marriage, for the sake of the kid if nothing else.

[Drone117]

I think this is by far the manliest thing, I ve seen on this site yet.

 

The OP knows what he is dealing with... he is nor dumb or a doormat.

I highly doubt he wants to react either. I have a feeling he doesn't.

 

If he demands they stop seeing each other.. what does that do?

He can't kick her out of the house.

Fighting will resolve nothing.

 

The only thing to do is serve the divorce papers...

 

His attitude brings him power and value to the table.

 

Liked that. Guilty.

[Pete2304]

If she chooses you, what then? Can you truly handle taking her back? I'm all for second chances, especially where marriage is concerned but it's not easy, in fact it's painfully difficult but it can be done.

[aileD]

I will use this quote to reply to both you and Turnera. I don't mind being called "doormat" if I behave like one and correct my actions. So thank you for taking your time to respond and post. There are some things I will and won't do no matter what but this is besides the point.

 

Anyway I fail to see how my quoted post indicates that I'm not deciding what I want, that I left the authority to decide with her and that I ask - "please" type of ask i assume - her to consider saving they marriage.

 

Specifically following has happened so far.

 

- I told her about my intentions and next steps (separation, divorce, so on)

- Set up some ground rules, she's agreed to (although her reaction was not what I expected, i was actually going to ask for advice here)

- asked (yes, asked) her to let me know her intentions and next steps so we can move on. She agreed to this as well but admitted she is lost, doesn't know what to do, and what do I think she should do next as she "doesn't want us to end like this". That's where I replied she needs to make her mind and decide what she wants to do wrt marriage, for the sake of the kid if nothing else.

 

Just watch out. Letting her decide when she's "lost and doesn't know what to do" could just drag this thing out for a year. Yeah it happened to me. You wanna know what made him finally make up his mind and not be lost anymore?

 

A text that said "we might as well get divorced if you're not gonna stop seeing her, can you talk to your boss about writing it up?" (His boss is a lawyer). We are together, he chose me. But it was a hard year.

 

There is this great quote that says "can't make a decision? Flip a coin making heads one decision and tales the other. while the coin is in the air, you will then know what you want the outcome to be"

 

Sometimes divorce papers can be the flip of the coin.

[merrmeade]

I will use this quote to reply to both you and Turnera. I don't mind being called "doormat" if I behave like one and correct my actions. So thank you for taking your time to respond and post. There are some things I will and won't do no matter what but this is besides the point.

 

Anyway I fail to see how my quoted post indicates that I'm not deciding what I want, that I left the authority to decide with her and that I ask - "please" type of ask i assume - her to consider saving they marriage.

 

Specifically following has happened so far.

 

- I told her about my intentions and next steps (separation, divorce, so on)

- Set up some ground rules, she's agreed to (although her reaction was not what I expected, i was actually going to ask for advice here)

- asked (yes, asked) her to let me know her intentions and next steps so we can move on. She agreed to this as well but admitted she is lost, doesn't know what to do, and what do I think she should do next as she "doesn't want us to end like this". That's where I replied she needs to make her mind and decide what she wants to do wrt marriage, for the sake of the kid if nothing else.

Drone, it's absurd and thoughtless to try and bully a betrayed spouse into defending his actions - especially with one doing as well as yourself and making good choices independently. You don't have to respond to namecalling or prove yourself. You're clearly not a doormat. You're doing great.

[Nirbhao.Nirvair]

If she chooses you, what then? Can you truly handle taking her back? I'm all for second chances, especially where marriage is concerned but it's not easy, in fact it's painfully difficult but it can be done.

 

 

I may be wrong here. But i don't think OP's wife is dragging her feet on deciding between him and the OM, but instead not consenting to the decision that Drone has proposed i.e to agree to a divorce. If i got this right, i think what Drone is saying here is that, his wife has agreed that what she has done does warrant a divorce, but she herself doesn't see her consenting to it and hence she is lost.

 

That's just inaction on her part. She is probably hoping if she can stall this for a week, maybe, Drone might relent somewhat.

[road]

I may be wrong here. But i don't think OP's wife is dragging her feet on deciding between him and the OM, but instead not consenting to the decision that Drone has proposed i.e to agree to a divorce. If i got this right, i think what Drone is saying here is that, his wife has agreed that what she has done does warrant a divorce, but she herself doesn't see her consenting to it and hence she is lost.

 

That's just inaction on her part. She is probably hoping if she can stall this for a week, maybe, Drone might relent somewhat.

 

 

 

So let her stall. Drone should tell her you are free to go to the OM so go and go now. Then have her served. Talk about a wake up call.

 

 

I usually support recovery. Though what Drone has posted here if he decides to do so he should tell his WW that the divorce has to go through then she can court him will trying to repair the damage she did. Second WW must file sexual harassment charges against the OM. Then after that has been brought to whatever legal end WW has to resign that job.

[elaine567]

I know it is all about revenge and "deserved" punishment but what is this all about really.

The wife was not dragged kicking and screaming into this affair, she was a very willing participant.

 

Ruining the OM is the "right" thing to do???

Really???

 

What about his poor wife and kids do they deserve to be "ruined" too? I am sure they have enough on their plate.

OK he done wrong, but no worse than the straying wife, it takes two to tango.

I get the "hatred" for the OM, but since he participated in a consensual affair, then what on earth is all this clamour for getting him fired for "harassment" and ruined and ran out of town really all about?

It sounds like pure nastiness to me.

[Birdies]

Drone, I am in complete agreement with you that the responsibility for this affair falls on your wife equally. In your shoes, I maybe wouldn't want to have a claim filed against him either.

 

My original comment was just to point out that in the 21st century, it is very much sexual harassment in the workplace to come on to a married woman (or ANY woman), have her turn you down, and instead of backing off like a respectful human being - you redouble your efforts to get her to sleep you. We women do not have to endure that kind of hostile workplace environment anymore, and generally speaking, I believe it should be reported. (Not in your case, per se. You don't want to make your wife justify this affair as only his fault.)

 

All that said, this is a tangent. As someone who had a workplace affair myself, I would never absolve my own responsibility by trying to blame it on harassment by my AP. No, at the end of the day, your wife made a choice and needs to accept the consequences of that choice.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Birdies

[kgcolonel]

Drone,

 

I wanted to add a few observations based on your posts that may be important considerations:

 

Your WW appears to be somewhat passive aggressive in her comments stating that "I knew I lost you" she is effectively making this decision for you without a bilateral conversation / discussion. Is this her normal disposition? May I suggest that you tell her that this is either cowardly or passive aggressive behavior and that if there is any interest, she should express her thoughts, feelings and directions now as this is a crossroad for not only the two of you but also for your family / child.....she should think long and hard.

 

This is not to say that what she wants or desires will follow but at least there will be knowledge from the two people in the M that will have expressed their perspectives at this crossroad. Otherwise, she will be cut loose and left to the whims of the OM on a foundation built on no more than a couple of months of secrecy, lies and cheating. That foundation does not seem to be a stable life for her and her child if this goes the way it appears she is accepting.

 

If she were willing to work and do all that you can think of, is there a way that the family unit may be preserved?

 

Thanks for your posts as it is I am sure painful and heart wrenching. We all feel for your but i want to stress to you that this is your decision and no one else's. Please hold on to that right and take the time to consider everything, not just the anger and hurt components here.

[drifter777]

Some posters are pointing out the fallacy of blaming OM. For one thing, harassment in an office workplace has a high bar to hurdle. Like he just won't take no for an answer so she goes to HR and/or her manager and reports the unwanted behavior. Flirting goes on all the time in the workplace and many, many people hook up with coworkers. The OM did nothing illegal.

 

OP - your wife is to blame for 100% of this. She could have shut this guy down but chose not to for whatever reason. She chose to have regular sex with the guy....she chose. Ok, so the guy is a hound and took her up on easy, no-strings sex. If screwing any woman who will hold still long enough is the kind of guy he is then he hit the jackpot with your wife. You can blame him for being a despicable pig with no moral compass but you can't blame him for picking low-hanging fruit like your wife.

 

It's all on her. She did it for the simplest reason - it was fun, exciting, and it felt good. Any other "reason" she might give you is simply rationalization filled with more lies, blame-shifting, and gas-lighting. Move forward taking whatever path you choose but make sure you see this - and her - for what it is.

[Drone117]

If she chooses you, what then? Can you truly handle taking her back? I'm all for second chances, especially where marriage is concerned but it's not easy, in fact it's painfully difficult but it can be done.

 

I'd give a kidney to have an answer. Signs are this is not really an option - let me clarify myself, "choosing me" is not enough, she'll need to put substantial effort - which as I said does not seem to be a option. So I'm keeping my kidney.

 

At the same time, even if she "chooses me" and decides to do something about it, at the moment I do not see myself handling taking her back (after what I've learned about them).

 

So I guess ending this is the safest option ghee both of us

[Drone117]

Just watch out. Letting her decide when she's "lost and doesn't know what to do" could just drag this thing out for a year. Yeah it happened to me. You wanna know what made him finally make up his mind and not be lost anymore?

 

A text that said "we might as well get divorced if you're not gonna stop seeing her, can you talk to your boss about writing it up?" (His boss is a lawyer). We are together, he chose me. But it was a hard year.

 

There is this great quote that says "can't make a decision? Flip a coin making heads one decision and tales the other. while the coin is in the air, you will then know what you want the outcome to be"

 

Sometimes divorce papers can be the flip of the coin.

 

Noted. Thank you.

[Drone117]

I know it is all about revenge and "deserved" punishment but what is this all about really.

The wife was not dragged kicking and screaming into this affair, she was a very willing participant.

 

Ruining the OM is the "right" thing to do???

Really???

 

What about his poor wife and kids do they deserve to be "ruined" too? I am sure they have enough on their plate.

OK he done wrong, but no worse than the straying wife, it takes two to tango.

I get the "hatred" for the OM, but since he participated in a consensual affair, then what on earth is all this clamour for getting him fired for "harassment" and ruined and ran out of town really all about?

It sounds like pure nastiness to me.

 

I can't respond with the same level of clarity, but I like "takes two to tango" sentence. In a nasty person I guess and well ruin him when I can, but not of the expense of certain things, and her filling a complaint is one of them.

 

Thank you.

[Drone117]

Drone, I am in complete agreement with you that the responsibility for this affair falls on your wife equally. In your shoes, I maybe wouldn't want to have a claim filed against him either.

 

My original comment was just to point out that in the 21st century, it is very much sexual harassment in the workplace to come on to a married woman (or ANY woman), have her turn you down, and instead of backing off like a respectful human being - you redouble your efforts to get her to sleep you. We women do not have to endure that kind of hostile workplace environment anymore, and generally speaking, I believe it should be reported. (Not in your case, per se. You don't want to make your wife justify this affair as only his fault.)

 

All that said, this is a tangent. As someone who had a workplace affair myself, I would never absolve my own responsibility by trying to blame it on harassment by my AP. No, at the end of the day, your wife made a choice and needs to accept the consequences of that choice.

 

I agree and value your post above. Moreover, I have no idea how to say it properly, but I'd like to wish your life to be happy and fulfilling.

 

I get what your are saying, and let me try to express myself further. I think I've mentioned this before, but wrt used to discuss our work and our days in the office in details. If she'd mentioned this to be when his attention was unwanted , I'd deal with this there and then. This may have had the hr involved, And if (because of his status) the complaint backfired on her, I'd support that as well, I earn enough not to be worried about the loss of her income. Or I'd deal with him using other methods, it's perfectly normal to protect your wife using any methods available on my eyes.

 

The thing is she didn't even mention this to me because she liked it, her "no" was not really "no"' (so I'm now a character of countless locker room jokes about the subject I guess).

 

So her filling the complaint now would be really low and hypocritical, wouldn't it be? I still hope she's not.

[kgcolonel]

I agree and value your post above. Moreover, I have no idea how to say it properly, but I'd like to wish your life to be happy and fulfilling.

 

I get what your are saying, and let me try to express myself further. I think I've mentioned this before, but wrt used to discuss our work and our days in the office in details. If she'd mentioned this to be when his attention was unwanted , I'd deal with this there and then. This may have had the hr involved, And if (because of his status) the complaint backfired on her, I'd support that as well, I earn enough not to be worried about the loss of her income. Or I'd deal with him using other methods, it's perfectly normal to protect your wife using any methods available on my eyes.

 

The thing is she didn't even mention this to me because she liked it, her "no" was not really "no"' (so I'm now a character of countless locker room jokes about the subject I guess).

 

So her filling the complaint now would be really low and hypocritical, wouldn't it be? I still hope she's not.

 

I agree with you here D.....it would be the epitome of hypocrisy in my opinion. She owns this and as you are sounding may be sorry you found out, may be sorry she hurt you, may be sorry for what she's about to lose but it doesn't sound as if she's sorry for doing the OM.

 

Is this accurate from what her journal and what she has said?

 

Can you tell if the A is still ongoing?

 

Very sad, has there been any discussion regarding the custody of your child?

 

Also what about exposure to her family and friends, i know you said you had no family to fall to for support, i hope you have a few friends that you can lean on.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Drone,

 

Are you sleeping, eating and staying hydrated? You have a lot of stress. There are two ways of coping with it: ignore it and it slowly kills you like a very, very high blood sugar for a diabetic or exercise.

 

Living in limbo is a nightmare. To end it you need to develop a plan and then follow it. You need to find islands of support, like oases in the desert. You used the term canonical, what is your faith background?

[Birdies]

I agree and value your post above. Moreover, I have no idea how to say it properly, but I'd like to wish your life to be happy and fulfilling.

 

I get what your are saying, and let me try to express myself further. I think I've mentioned this before, but wrt used to discuss our work and our days in the office in details. If she'd mentioned this to be when his attention was unwanted , I'd deal with this there and then. This may have had the hr involved, And if (because of his status) the complaint backfired on her, I'd support that as well, I earn enough not to be worried about the loss of her income. Or I'd deal with him using other methods, it's perfectly normal to protect your wife using any methods available on my eyes.

 

The thing is she didn't even mention this to me because she liked it, her "no" was not really "no"' (so I'm now a character of countless locker room jokes about the subject I guess).

 

So her filling the complaint now would be really low and hypocritical, wouldn't it be? I still hope she's not.

 

Yes I agree with you that it would be hypocritical and counterproductive her to file a complaint in this situation - especially since she needs to be bending over backwards to accept responsibility for her actions rather than doing anything that would transfer blame. (I've been there - you get so used to justifying things to yourself that it's easy to try to justify it to others. I'm very ashamed of some of my initial reactions in that regard...)

 

I'm glad she's agreed to a few rules. I've been doing a lot of reading on infidelity this year, and the general consensus is that if a wayward spouse has ANY hopes of having a successful reconciliation, they need to: 1) cut off all contact with the affair partner (which includes quitting their job if it was a workplace affair); 2) write a no contact letter to the affair partner with their spouse's oversight and send it ("I am working on my marriage. Never contact me again." Etc); 3) go into individual counseling, and marriage counseling later once individual counseling has helped the person understand and work on their issues that allowed them to cheat; 4) have complete transparency - a completely open book on texts, email, facebook, GPS tracker on the phone, etc (you don't have to look, but you should be welcome to at any point) 5) tell people close to you - the betrayed spouse needs that support, and the cheating spouse needs to face the consequences to some degree; 6) basically agree to do whatever their spouse needs from them in order to be a "safe partner" to the betrayed spouse; 7) NO blame-shifting or minimizing of the affair.

 

You might google "the 180" - it's the recommended approach for when the wayward spouse is still in the affair fog or trying to have it both ways. It's a way to take back control of your life, and as a side effect, often forces the wayward spouse into snapping out of their fog.

 

I sincerely wish you good luck. Thank you for your kind words as well, I truly appreciate it.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Birdies

[usa1ah]

What ever Drone117 does to the POSOM is what he has coming to him. The POSOM went after a married woman, what ever happens he asked for it. He played the game now it's time to pay the price.