Is anything going on

[elaine567]

I know it is all about revenge and "deserved" punishment but what is this all about really.

The wife was not dragged kicking and screaming into this affair, she was a very willing participant.

 

Ruining the OM is the "right" thing to do???

Really???

 

What about his poor wife and kids do they deserve to be "ruined" too? I am sure they have enough on their plate.

OK he done wrong, but no worse than the straying wife, it takes two to tango.

I get the "hatred" for the OM, but since he participated in a consensual affair, then what on earth is all this clamour for getting him fired for "harassment" and ruined and ran out of town really all about?

It sounds like pure nastiness to me.

[Birdies]

Drone, I am in complete agreement with you that the responsibility for this affair falls on your wife equally. In your shoes, I maybe wouldn't want to have a claim filed against him either.

 

My original comment was just to point out that in the 21st century, it is very much sexual harassment in the workplace to come on to a married woman (or ANY woman), have her turn you down, and instead of backing off like a respectful human being - you redouble your efforts to get her to sleep you. We women do not have to endure that kind of hostile workplace environment anymore, and generally speaking, I believe it should be reported. (Not in your case, per se. You don't want to make your wife justify this affair as only his fault.)

 

All that said, this is a tangent. As someone who had a workplace affair myself, I would never absolve my own responsibility by trying to blame it on harassment by my AP. No, at the end of the day, your wife made a choice and needs to accept the consequences of that choice.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Birdies

[kgcolonel]

Drone,

 

I wanted to add a few observations based on your posts that may be important considerations:

 

Your WW appears to be somewhat passive aggressive in her comments stating that "I knew I lost you" she is effectively making this decision for you without a bilateral conversation / discussion. Is this her normal disposition? May I suggest that you tell her that this is either cowardly or passive aggressive behavior and that if there is any interest, she should express her thoughts, feelings and directions now as this is a crossroad for not only the two of you but also for your family / child.....she should think long and hard.

 

This is not to say that what she wants or desires will follow but at least there will be knowledge from the two people in the M that will have expressed their perspectives at this crossroad. Otherwise, she will be cut loose and left to the whims of the OM on a foundation built on no more than a couple of months of secrecy, lies and cheating. That foundation does not seem to be a stable life for her and her child if this goes the way it appears she is accepting.

 

If she were willing to work and do all that you can think of, is there a way that the family unit may be preserved?

 

Thanks for your posts as it is I am sure painful and heart wrenching. We all feel for your but i want to stress to you that this is your decision and no one else's. Please hold on to that right and take the time to consider everything, not just the anger and hurt components here.

[drifter777]

Some posters are pointing out the fallacy of blaming OM. For one thing, harassment in an office workplace has a high bar to hurdle. Like he just won't take no for an answer so she goes to HR and/or her manager and reports the unwanted behavior. Flirting goes on all the time in the workplace and many, many people hook up with coworkers. The OM did nothing illegal.

 

OP - your wife is to blame for 100% of this. She could have shut this guy down but chose not to for whatever reason. She chose to have regular sex with the guy....she chose. Ok, so the guy is a hound and took her up on easy, no-strings sex. If screwing any woman who will hold still long enough is the kind of guy he is then he hit the jackpot with your wife. You can blame him for being a despicable pig with no moral compass but you can't blame him for picking low-hanging fruit like your wife.

 

It's all on her. She did it for the simplest reason - it was fun, exciting, and it felt good. Any other "reason" she might give you is simply rationalization filled with more lies, blame-shifting, and gas-lighting. Move forward taking whatever path you choose but make sure you see this - and her - for what it is.

[Drone117]

If she chooses you, what then? Can you truly handle taking her back? I'm all for second chances, especially where marriage is concerned but it's not easy, in fact it's painfully difficult but it can be done.

 

I'd give a kidney to have an answer. Signs are this is not really an option - let me clarify myself, "choosing me" is not enough, she'll need to put substantial effort - which as I said does not seem to be a option. So I'm keeping my kidney.

 

At the same time, even if she "chooses me" and decides to do something about it, at the moment I do not see myself handling taking her back (after what I've learned about them).

 

So I guess ending this is the safest option ghee both of us

[Drone117]

Just watch out. Letting her decide when she's "lost and doesn't know what to do" could just drag this thing out for a year. Yeah it happened to me. You wanna know what made him finally make up his mind and not be lost anymore?

 

A text that said "we might as well get divorced if you're not gonna stop seeing her, can you talk to your boss about writing it up?" (His boss is a lawyer). We are together, he chose me. But it was a hard year.

 

There is this great quote that says "can't make a decision? Flip a coin making heads one decision and tales the other. while the coin is in the air, you will then know what you want the outcome to be"

 

Sometimes divorce papers can be the flip of the coin.

 

Noted. Thank you.

[Drone117]

I know it is all about revenge and "deserved" punishment but what is this all about really.

The wife was not dragged kicking and screaming into this affair, she was a very willing participant.

 

Ruining the OM is the "right" thing to do???

Really???

 

What about his poor wife and kids do they deserve to be "ruined" too? I am sure they have enough on their plate.

OK he done wrong, but no worse than the straying wife, it takes two to tango.

I get the "hatred" for the OM, but since he participated in a consensual affair, then what on earth is all this clamour for getting him fired for "harassment" and ruined and ran out of town really all about?

It sounds like pure nastiness to me.

 

I can't respond with the same level of clarity, but I like "takes two to tango" sentence. In a nasty person I guess and well ruin him when I can, but not of the expense of certain things, and her filling a complaint is one of them.

 

Thank you.

[Drone117]

Drone, I am in complete agreement with you that the responsibility for this affair falls on your wife equally. In your shoes, I maybe wouldn't want to have a claim filed against him either.

 

My original comment was just to point out that in the 21st century, it is very much sexual harassment in the workplace to come on to a married woman (or ANY woman), have her turn you down, and instead of backing off like a respectful human being - you redouble your efforts to get her to sleep you. We women do not have to endure that kind of hostile workplace environment anymore, and generally speaking, I believe it should be reported. (Not in your case, per se. You don't want to make your wife justify this affair as only his fault.)

 

All that said, this is a tangent. As someone who had a workplace affair myself, I would never absolve my own responsibility by trying to blame it on harassment by my AP. No, at the end of the day, your wife made a choice and needs to accept the consequences of that choice.

 

I agree and value your post above. Moreover, I have no idea how to say it properly, but I'd like to wish your life to be happy and fulfilling.

 

I get what your are saying, and let me try to express myself further. I think I've mentioned this before, but wrt used to discuss our work and our days in the office in details. If she'd mentioned this to be when his attention was unwanted , I'd deal with this there and then. This may have had the hr involved, And if (because of his status) the complaint backfired on her, I'd support that as well, I earn enough not to be worried about the loss of her income. Or I'd deal with him using other methods, it's perfectly normal to protect your wife using any methods available on my eyes.

 

The thing is she didn't even mention this to me because she liked it, her "no" was not really "no"' (so I'm now a character of countless locker room jokes about the subject I guess).

 

So her filling the complaint now would be really low and hypocritical, wouldn't it be? I still hope she's not.

[kgcolonel]

I agree and value your post above. Moreover, I have no idea how to say it properly, but I'd like to wish your life to be happy and fulfilling.

 

I get what your are saying, and let me try to express myself further. I think I've mentioned this before, but wrt used to discuss our work and our days in the office in details. If she'd mentioned this to be when his attention was unwanted , I'd deal with this there and then. This may have had the hr involved, And if (because of his status) the complaint backfired on her, I'd support that as well, I earn enough not to be worried about the loss of her income. Or I'd deal with him using other methods, it's perfectly normal to protect your wife using any methods available on my eyes.

 

The thing is she didn't even mention this to me because she liked it, her "no" was not really "no"' (so I'm now a character of countless locker room jokes about the subject I guess).

 

So her filling the complaint now would be really low and hypocritical, wouldn't it be? I still hope she's not.

 

I agree with you here D.....it would be the epitome of hypocrisy in my opinion. She owns this and as you are sounding may be sorry you found out, may be sorry she hurt you, may be sorry for what she's about to lose but it doesn't sound as if she's sorry for doing the OM.

 

Is this accurate from what her journal and what she has said?

 

Can you tell if the A is still ongoing?

 

Very sad, has there been any discussion regarding the custody of your child?

 

Also what about exposure to her family and friends, i know you said you had no family to fall to for support, i hope you have a few friends that you can lean on.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Drone,

 

Are you sleeping, eating and staying hydrated? You have a lot of stress. There are two ways of coping with it: ignore it and it slowly kills you like a very, very high blood sugar for a diabetic or exercise.

 

Living in limbo is a nightmare. To end it you need to develop a plan and then follow it. You need to find islands of support, like oases in the desert. You used the term canonical, what is your faith background?

[S2B]

I will use this quote to reply to both you and Turnera. I don't mind being called "doormat" if I behave like one and correct my actions. So thank you for taking your time to respond and post. There are some things I will and won't do no matter what but this is besides the point.

 

Anyway I fail to see how my quoted post indicates that I'm not deciding what I want, that I left the authority to decide with her and that I ask - "please" type of ask i assume - her to consider saving they marriage.

 

Specifically following has happened so far.

 

- I told her about my intentions and next steps (separation, divorce, so on)

- Set up some ground rules, she's agreed to (although her reaction was not what I expected, i was actually going to ask for advice here)

- asked (yes, asked) her to let me know her intentions and next steps so we can move on. She agreed to this as well but admitted she is lost, doesn't know what to do, and what do I think she should do next as she "doesn't want us to end like this". That's where I replied she needs to make her mind and decide what she wants to do wrt marriage, for the sake of the kid if nothing else.

 

Ok then... why not tell her you want her in IC and to be spending 150% of her energy repairing the damage she has caused?

 

And suggest she prove her devotion by repairing the trust she's broken...

[Birdies]

I agree and value your post above. Moreover, I have no idea how to say it properly, but I'd like to wish your life to be happy and fulfilling.

 

I get what your are saying, and let me try to express myself further. I think I've mentioned this before, but wrt used to discuss our work and our days in the office in details. If she'd mentioned this to be when his attention was unwanted , I'd deal with this there and then. This may have had the hr involved, And if (because of his status) the complaint backfired on her, I'd support that as well, I earn enough not to be worried about the loss of her income. Or I'd deal with him using other methods, it's perfectly normal to protect your wife using any methods available on my eyes.

 

The thing is she didn't even mention this to me because she liked it, her "no" was not really "no"' (so I'm now a character of countless locker room jokes about the subject I guess).

 

So her filling the complaint now would be really low and hypocritical, wouldn't it be? I still hope she's not.

 

Yes I agree with you that it would be hypocritical and counterproductive her to file a complaint in this situation - especially since she needs to be bending over backwards to accept responsibility for her actions rather than doing anything that would transfer blame. (I've been there - you get so used to justifying things to yourself that it's easy to try to justify it to others. I'm very ashamed of some of my initial reactions in that regard...)

 

I'm glad she's agreed to a few rules. I've been doing a lot of reading on infidelity this year, and the general consensus is that if a wayward spouse has ANY hopes of having a successful reconciliation, they need to: 1) cut off all contact with the affair partner (which includes quitting their job if it was a workplace affair); 2) write a no contact letter to the affair partner with their spouse's oversight and send it ("I am working on my marriage. Never contact me again." Etc); 3) go into individual counseling, and marriage counseling later once individual counseling has helped the person understand and work on their issues that allowed them to cheat; 4) have complete transparency - a completely open book on texts, email, facebook, GPS tracker on the phone, etc (you don't have to look, but you should be welcome to at any point) 5) tell people close to you - the betrayed spouse needs that support, and the cheating spouse needs to face the consequences to some degree; 6) basically agree to do whatever their spouse needs from them in order to be a "safe partner" to the betrayed spouse; 7) NO blame-shifting or minimizing of the affair.

 

You might google "the 180" - it's the recommended approach for when the wayward spouse is still in the affair fog or trying to have it both ways. It's a way to take back control of your life, and as a side effect, often forces the wayward spouse into snapping out of their fog.

 

I sincerely wish you good luck. Thank you for your kind words as well, I truly appreciate it.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Birdies

[usa1ah]

What ever Drone117 does to the POSOM is what he has coming to him. The POSOM went after a married woman, what ever happens he asked for it. He played the game now it's time to pay the price.

[Drone117]

Drone,

 

I wanted to add a few observations based on your posts that may be important considerations:

 

Your WW appears to be somewhat passive aggressive in her comments stating that "I knew I lost you" she is effectively making this decision for you without a bilateral conversation / discussion. Is this her normal disposition? May I suggest that you tell her that this is either cowardly or passive aggressive behavior and that if there is any interest, she should express her thoughts, feelings and directions now as this is a crossroad for not only the two of you but also for your family / child.....she should think long and hard.

 

This is not to say that what she wants or desires will follow but at least there will be knowledge from the two people in the M that will have expressed their perspectives at this crossroad. Otherwise, she will be cut loose and left to the whims of the OM on a foundation built on no more than a couple of months of secrecy, lies and cheating. That foundation does not seem to be a stable life for her and her child if this goes the way it appears she is accepting.

 

If she were willing to work and do all that you can think of, is there a way that the family unit may be preserved?

 

Thanks for your posts as it is I am sure painful and heart wrenching. We all feel for your but i want to stress to you that this is your decision and no one else's. Please hold on to that right and take the time to consider everything, not just the anger and hurt components here.

 

 

I'd say rather passive than aggressive. That's definitely not her normal, perhaps she's made the decision already and getting me ready for it or she's honestly lost and confused. In any case she's far from happily moving on (presumeably with him) or working on the marriage. Crossroads it is. She also knows that longer it takes, the more likely I'm moving on without taking her position into account.

 

Thank you, I post here because it makes me feel better and I get good advice. I'm not masochist nor I enjoy suffering so if it gets awkward I'll stop.

 

- this accurate from what her journal and what she has said?

I think it's reasonably accurate.

 

- Can you tell if the A is still ongoing?

I don't think they are physically seeing each other these days. I have not seen any mention of "it's over, forget I ever existed" call. She commented that his only comms since that day was (he told him I know) "should I be worried?", which she didn't like. But who knows what's going on in the office.

 

Very sad, has there been any discussion regarding the custody of your child?

I'll respond separately.

 

Also what about exposure to her family and friends, i know you said you had no family to fall to for support, i hope you have a few friends that you can lean on.

 

Not a lot of any - of that closeness I mean.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Drone117

[Drone117]

Ok then... why not tell her you want her in IC and to be spending 150% of her energy repairing the damage she has caused?

 

And suggest she prove her devotion by repairing the trust she's broken...

 

I would tell he, absolutely, if she made her mind, starred trading steps and asked me for advice. Is it worth doing that if she's not?

[Drone117]

Thank you, and I'd user your post to ask the question I wanted to. 1st I agree with your "rules" and would be happy if she had strength and maturity to do something like that.

 

The rules I was referring to are different. I informed her about my demands for her j involvement with him while we are under the same roof (which was her wish mind you). I don't believe - and I'm asking for input from you and others- they were too harsh or unreasonable. Like no open contact with him until we are divorced, no sneaking around and especially that he and our kid are on different planes of the universe (absolutely no contact or mention or anything).

 

I am totally confused about hey reaction, she basically collapsed and was crying and sobbing and what not.

 

What is so unusual in what I asked for?

 

 

Yes I agree with you that it would be hypocritical and counterproductive her to file a complaint in this situation - especially since she needs to be bending over backwards to accept responsibility for her actions rather than doing anything that would transfer blame. (I've been there - you get so used to justifying things to yourself that it's easy to try to justify it to others. I'm very ashamed of some of my initial reactions in that regard...)

 

I'm glad she's agreed to a few rules. I've been doing a lot of reading on infidelity this year, and the general consensus is that if a wayward spouse has ANY hopes of having a successful reconciliation, they need to: 1) cut off all contact with the affair partner (which includes quitting their job if it was a workplace affair); 2) write a no contact letter to the affair partner with their spouse's oversight and send it ("I am working on my marriage. Never contact me again." Etc); 3) go into individual counseling, and marriage counseling later once individual counseling has helped the person understand and work on their issues that allowed them to cheat; 4) have complete transparency - a completely open book on texts, email, facebook, GPS tracker on the phone, etc (you don't have to look, but you should be welcome to at any point) 5) tell people close to you - the betrayed spouse needs that support, and the cheating spouse needs to face the consequences to some degree; 6) basically agree to do whatever their spouse needs from them in order to be a "safe partner" to the betrayed spouse; 7) NO blame-shifting or minimizing of the affair.

 

You might google "the 180" - it's the recommended approach for when the wayward spouse is still in the affair fog or trying to have it both ways. It's a way to take back control of your life, and as a side effect, often forces the wayward spouse into snapping out of their fog.

 

I sincerely wish you good luck. Thank you for your kind words as well, I truly appreciate it.

[Birdies]

Thank you, and I'd user your post to ask the question I wanted to. 1st I agree with your "rules" and would be happy if she had strength and maturity to do something like that.

 

The rules I was referring to are different. I informed her about my demands for her j involvement with him while we are under the same roof (which was her wish mind you). I don't believe - and I'm asking for input from you and others- they were too harsh or unreasonable. Like no open contact with him until we are divorced, no sneaking around and especially that he and our kid are on different planes of the universe (absolutely no contact or mention or anything).

 

I am totally confused about hey reaction, she basically collapsed and was crying and sobbing and what not.

 

What is so unusual in what I asked for?

 

No that's certainly not too harsh. If you are living under the same roof, it's the least that she can do. If she wants to act like she's single / dating someone else, she shouldn't get to live like she's married. I think it'd be fair to demand the whole open phone, know all the passwords, GPS tracker on phone business as a condition of staying in the house. (Granted, legally you may not be able to kick her out. But you should be able to use your leverage as the betrayed person to demand it.)

 

What you asked for is NOT unreasonable at all! But her reaction isn't surprising, although I know super hurtful. She is in the "affair fog". An illicit affair is like a drug, and going cold turkey is really really hard. She either thinks she's in love with him or is addicted to the ego rush of the attention / secrecy. It's hard for the person to come to grips with their whole secret world collapsing like a house of cards.

[Drone117]

No that's certainly not too harsh. If you are living under the same roof, it's the least that she can do. If she wants to act like she's single / dating someone else, she shouldn't get to live like she's married. I think it'd be fair to demand the whole open phone, know all the passwords, GPS tracker on phone business as a condition of staying in the house. (Granted, legally you may not be able to kick her out. But you should be able to use your leverage as the betrayed person to demand it.)

 

What you asked for is NOT unreasonable at all! But her reaction isn't surprising, although I know super hurtful. She is in the "affair fog". An illicit affair is like a drug, and going cold turkey is really really hard. She either thinks she's in love with him or is addicted to the ego rush of the attention / secrecy. It's hard for the person to come to grips with their whole secret world collapsing like a house of cards.

 

It kind of makes sense, the slap of reality. Especially as I understand when it comes to the kid. I guess he can replace the relationship she had with me, but can't replace the one 3 of us had.

 

Which brings me to the next point: few times I've been asked if I'm willing to take her back if she suddenly does this and that. The truth is, probably not. I really want to, and she keeps telling me she loves and never stopped loving me, but after what I've seen in the diary... Without getting too graphical, I don't believe it is possible to make me to believe that and that she's chosen me. You know, even if you are happily married for much longer then we are and there is no affair, there are details about your previous relationships you never tell your SO unless you are both into it. I just don't think its possible and can't imagine what needs to happen to change that.

 

Anyway, it's not on the table.

 

That's it from me.

[aliveagain]

It kind of makes sense, the slap of reality. Especially as I understand when it comes to the kid. I guess he can replace the relationship she had with me, but can't replace the one 3 of us had.

 

Which brings me to the next point: few times I've been asked if I'm willing to take her back if she suddenly does this and that. The truth is, probably not. I really want to, and she keeps telling me she loves and never stopped loving me, but after what I've seen in the diary... Without getting too graphical, I don't believe it is possible to make me to believe that and that she's chosen me. You know, even if you are happily married for much longer then we are and there is no affair, there are details about your previous relationships you never tell your SO unless you are both into it. I just don't think its possible and can't imagine what needs to happen to change that.

 

Anyway, it's not on the table.

 

That's it from me.

 

Drone, infidelity is the worst form of disrespect one spouse can show another. In my world as of now, I have zero tolerance for infidelity when it comes to me. If your stupid enough to cheat on me you don't deserve being part of my life anymore. Most people are better off having me in their lives then not, I share my success with people I love. I will never allow someone that makes sh*tty choices have control over me, that's why I sometimes get a little short when people post about waiting for their spouse to become repentant. How logical is it that bringing a third person into your relationship will fix your relationship problems? Some betrayed spouses will spend years in agonizing pain waiting for their spouse to come out of their fog.

 

There are only a couple of things that will bring reality back for a wayward spouse, playing the pick me dance or trying to nice them back always fail(you lose whether you reconcile or divorce). Why prolong the pain because nothing will ever erase the treason they bring into your life. The best you can ever hope for is to brainwash yourself into believing you can live with the imbalance their infidelity has created. Have respect for yourself because they certainly don't, if they truly did infidelity would never happen. Don't let them dump the weight from their shoulders onto yours, let them eat their own well deserved sh*t sandwich.

Edited December 14, 2016 by aliveagain

[road]

What ever Drone117 does to the POSOM is what he has coming to him. The POSOM went after a married woman, what ever happens he asked for it. He played the game now it's time to pay the price.

 

Hence the work place exposure.

 

 

People here can ignore this but I have seen too many affairs restart because NC was not put in place. If the job is determined to be more valuable then the job then that shows were their priorities are. Sad.

[tinkerbell16]

Thank you, and I'd user your post to ask the question I wanted to. 1st I agree with your "rules" and would be happy if she had strength and maturity to do something like that.

 

The rules I was referring to are different. I informed her about my demands for her j involvement with him while we are under the same roof (which was her wish mind you). I don't believe - and I'm asking for input from you and others- they were too harsh or unreasonable. Like no open contact with him until we are divorced, no sneaking around and especially that he and our kid are on different planes of the universe (absolutely no contact or mention or anything).

 

I am totally confused about hey reaction, she basically collapsed and was crying and sobbing and what not.

 

What is so unusual in what I asked for?

 

Drone, mine collapsed, sobbing at my feet as well upon discovery, yet he is still with his work affair partner almost 3 years later. It's not a sign of their feelings towards you so much as they are crushed their cake eating has ended.

[doyathinkso]

You're wasting your time even talking to her. Just serve her the papers already.

[WilyWill]

Your demands are very reasonable. I think what's making her cry is the reality that she might be divorced soon. When the affair was a secret, this reality was something she never had to face.

 

Serve her now, let that reality hit hard, and then spend as much time as you need gauging her reaction to her new reality. Start talking about living arrangements and visitation schedules. Do it over email to keep it unemotional. Inform her that you'll be doing a DNA test in your child. This is also a big dose of reality, and makes her look in the mirror.

 

How hard will she work to get you back? Maybe it's not even possible, but there's no reason for you to show your hand early. The divorce can be stopped at any point if she's able to meet your conditions.

[S2B]

I think her affair is still going on. And she may be unwilling to make a decision because she doesn't want to lose you (her security) and him (her fantasy). But most of all because she can blame you after the decision is made. She wants to blame someone other than herself.

 

Is she the type to avoid conflict?

[merrmeade]

How hard will she work to get you back? Maybe it's not even possible, but there's no reason for you to show your hand early. The divorce can be stopped at any point if she's able to meet your conditions.

This is the ONLY policy that supports even the possibility of a successful reconciliation. I wish I'd been given more straightforward, factual arguments to do this when I was dealing with all the upheaval following discovery of my husband's cheating. YOU have to be willing to lose them for them to realize THEY will lose everything. Like I said, wish I'd known and believed this then. I remember the look on his face was always as if he was weighing the probability that I'd walk away and expose him or stay and rug-sweep with him. Fear of exposure is what drove my husband probably 90%.