Is anything going on

[Drone117]

Cheaters are cake eaters. In cheating your wife did not pick the other man (OM) over you. Your wife picked both you and the OM over just you. That is why she did it behind your back instead of just leaving you to be with the OM. It is a matter of simple math. No matter how much better you are than the other man, you plus the other man is always going to be greater than you alone. Mathematically if the OM's desirability rating = X, and your desirability rating = Y, then X + Y would always be greater than X no matter what X or Y were (x + Y > Y). To a cheater this would always be true no matter how hard you worked to push your rating up, as you would always be competing against yourself.

 

Very sad math for a marriage. Perhaps being naive I assumed that average women will not just happily sleep with two men, therefore the formula is not applicable. I was wrong, at least wrt THIS woman.

 

Coincidentally Y seems to be losing desirability a bit, heading for the negative value, where in the end (too late it seems) Y could be greater than Y + X, if X < 0.

 

I refer to the fact that OM blamed my wife for the affair and trouble in his marriage (I know only this, no further info), plus was spreading dirty gossips about her. Her colleagues are more than happy to pass this info to her, so her office time is not pleasant either. Apparently, he took extra weeks of leave; I'll deal with him when he comes back.

[BluesPower]

So has she gotten shafted at work by pretty boy?

 

I want to hear what she acts like then. You will, in a way, LYAO, when she comes crawling back after that happens.

 

Not that you are looking for revenge, but it will be something to watch.

 

You are doing the right thing. Divorce her and let her find out what life is really like. Boy you will really see a change. You may not want to take her back after that, but it will be something to watch.

 

My wife is about to find out what life with out good old hubby is like and I won't even look at her when she comes crawling back to me. I am just going to laugh. What a horrible person I have become...

[road]

Business as usual? As if nothing happened? Hell no. We are basically like roommates sharing accommodation plus co-parents. Asked her not to engage me unless strictly necessary.

Is she trying to engage me? Constantly, despite the above. The problem is she's nothing constructive to say or more often I cannot understand her cryptic messages. My reading she's accepted the loss of the family and at crossroads so to speak, I could be wrong of course.

Emotions? Constantly. Crying, staring at the wall, spontaneous irritations, etc.

So definitely not an ice queen, however what I see is probably in terms of this forum is qualified as regret. I think her actions match the behavior if the person who's loved one has passed away. Like she's grieving of course, but whatever happened was inevitable so eventually the life will go on. At least that is how I am interpreting her words, writings and actions.

 

My intuition tells me that if I kneel and beg and promise to forgive she might go back but only to have a temporary foundation to move on, so I'm not really considering this option. Really need no breadcrumbs from her.

 

It is normal for many WS's to grieve after their affair. They grieve the loss of their AP, loss of their marriage, loss of public image. The list of things lost because they had an affair can be end list.

[Chaparral]

Very sad math for a marriage. Perhaps being naive I assumed that average women will not just happily sleep with two men, therefore the formula is not applicable. I was wrong, at least wrt THIS woman.

 

Coincidentally Y seems to be losing desirability a bit, heading for the negative value, where in the end (too late it seems) Y could be greater than Y + X, if X < 0.

 

I refer to the fact that OM blamed my wife for the affair and trouble in his marriage (I know only this, no further info), plus was spreading dirty gossips about her. Her colleagues are more than happy to pass this info to her, so her office time is not pleasant either. Apparently, he took extra weeks of leave; I'll deal with him when he comes back.

 

It isn't necessarily like that. Drug addicts aren't usually happy about being addicts but they continue on.

Have you asked her what she thought would happen if she got caught? I'm wondering if she was fooling herself on this point. One big reason waywards do not look like they are remorseful and want to save their marriage is they put themselves in their spouses shoes and think they would kick the cheater out.

From some things you wrote, it sounded like she got played be a player. Didn't you mention other women at their workplace interested in him too...?

He has taken leave and his wife has found out?

[aliveagain]

Very sad math for a marriage. Perhaps being naive I assumed that average women will not just happily sleep with two men, therefore the formula is not applicable. I was wrong, at least wrt THIS woman.

 

Coincidentally Y seems to be losing desirability a bit, heading for the negative value, where in the end (too late it seems) Y could be greater than Y + X, if X < 0.

 

I refer to the fact that OM blamed my wife for the affair and trouble in his marriage (I know only this, no further info), plus was spreading dirty gossips about her. Her colleagues are more than happy to pass this info to her, so her office time is not pleasant either. Apparently, he took extra weeks of leave; I'll deal with him when he comes back.

 

Perhaps your wife was the pursuer, most of us betrayed men don't want to believe our wives would be the ones that cause the infidelity. We want to blame the other man because it is easier to blame someone you don't know over the person you love. Knowing your wife is the aggressor is just another twist of the knife in your back.

[Oberfeldwebel]

Affairs are like fungus, they grow in darkness, but when exposed to the light of day, they die quickly. As I said before, she was nothing more than the flavor of the month to him. This will cause her to hedge her bets and will probably try to bring you back to the relationship and sex is the usual bait. I still don't get the feeling that she has true remorse, unless she is truly contrite, there is really nothing for you to forgive. Either way I see no reason to change course, the fact is if he would have been all in, so would she. In the immortal words of Admiral David Farrogut, "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead".

[Try]

Perhaps your wife was the pursuer, most of us betrayed men don't want to believe our wives would be the ones that cause the infidelity. We want to blame the other man because it is easier to blame someone you don't know over the person you love. Knowing your wife is the aggressor is just another twist of the knife in your back.

I agree. On these boards the betrayed spouse almost always refers to their spouse's affair partner (AP) as the pursuer and their spouse as the one that fell into the trap. With most not even sure that their spouse is cheating when they first post here and thus having no idea who was the pursuer, it should be a 50%-50% chance that their spouse was the pursuer, but that is not what is posted as the AP is the one usually blamed by the OP as the driver of the affair.

[Chaparral]

From the beginning of your thread I felt like your wife got played. Whether or not that is true many women do get played. Getting close to fire is fun till things go to far. With the info you have I feel certain you can tell who was after who in the beginning.

 

Here is a post every woman and man should read that was posted on another website years ago. Its interesting that in the US one third of men and women cheat sooner or later but only twenty percent of them ever get caught(according to experts in the field, who knows?)

 

I don't recall who posted this:

 

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

 

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

 

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.

1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).

2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.

3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

 

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

 

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

 

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

 

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

 

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

 

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

 

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

 

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.

 

 

I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

 

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

 

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

 

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

 

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.

 

 

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[Sweetfish]

Perhaps your wife was the pursuer, most of us betrayed men don't want to believe our wives would be the ones that cause the infidelity. We want to blame the other man because it is easier to blame someone you don't know over the person you love. Knowing your wife is the aggressor is just another twist of the knife in your back.

 

 

This theory can be ruled out as it would serve no point to lie in your own diary

[Sweetfish]

People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

|

 

This is a very powerful statement. Chaparral even though its tough to read for most men. I think for many men reading this.. its a very important read. At some point their will be a man selling your wife or girlfriend this B.S. and playing on the things you as a husband do not do.

 

Playing the fake beta is probably the worse kinda guy she will encounter because he will become her emotional affair and the minute you fight with your girlfriend or wife he will setup for the kill.

[Drone117]

It isn't necessarily like that. Drug addicts aren't usually happy about being addicts but they continue on.

Have you asked her what she thought would happen if she got caught? I'm wondering if she was fooling herself on this point. One big reason waywards do not look like they are remorseful and want to save their marriage is they put themselves in their spouses shoes and think they would kick the cheater out.

From some things you wrote, it sounded like she got played be a player. Didn't you mention other women at their workplace interested in him too...?

He has taken leave and his wife has found out?

 

I have asked her only if she, when she was at the point of no return, realised that knowing me and my perhaps archaic views on marriage and all, this will certainly ends the marriage. Or she was counting on me never finding out? Her response was that part of her knew it, but bigger part was to go ahead anyway. At this point she was starting attempts to find my own faults that could lighten the guilt so the discussion stopped.

 

Yes other women were competing for his attention, constant flirting, testing and all. So they were cheering her up as the favorite of a kind. I don't know if there were other affairs

 

As for your last question all I know is be was supposed to return this week but took extra time off. Apparently to work on his family issues resulting from this mess.

[Drone117]

This theory can be ruled out as it would serve no point to lie in your own diary

 

Correct. From more then one source I know that is not the case. Let me attempt to explain. We both have been raised with a great degree of respect free the marriage. So when he started singling her out and pursuing her, at certain point in time she asked him to stop in a "I'm married" way. He indeed didn't stop and doubled the effort. She took it as something very significant, very bold, bright and attractive. That did make all the difference for her then. Her biggest shock was not even that he didn't take the blame with HR as she was subconsciously hoped AFAIK but when he told her (days when I found out) something like "so what's the big deal, we had fun, now let's pretend nothing happened and your deal with your own family issues".

 

I'm not defending her or trying to shift all the blame on om and make her a victim. For me it is much worse than if she would be pursuing him.

[MJJean]

Correct. From more then one source I know that is not the case. Let me attempt to explain. We both have been raised with a great degree of respect free the marriage. So when he started singling her out and pursuing her, at certain point in time she asked him to stop in a "I'm married" way. He indeed didn't stop and doubled the effort. She took it as something very significant, very bold, bright and attractive. That did make all the difference for her then. Her biggest shock was not even that he didn't take the blame with HR as she was subconsciously hoped AFAIK but when he told her (days when I found out) something like "so what's the big deal, we had fun, now let's pretend nothing happened and your deal with your own family issues".

 

I'm not defending her or trying to shift all the blame on om and make her a victim. For me it is much worse than if she would be pursuing him.

 

So, basically, she said "I'm married!", he said "I don't care!" and then she said "You have flattered me, sir, and now I don't care that I'm married, either!"

[BuddyX]

So, basically, she said "I'm married!", he said "I don't care!" and then she said "You have flattered me, sir, and now I don't care that I'm married, either!"

 

Yup^^^

Your wife is admitting that a little bit of persistence will get her panties moist.

Listen, I am a big proponent of man guarding your woman. But, you can't be there 24/7. That's my reason for leaving my Marriage. Not knowing sucks.

 

And oh yeah, my exw did do it again, and again.

[Try]

Yes other women were competing for his attention, constant flirting, testing and all. So they were cheering her up as the favorite of a kind.

With other women in competition with your wife "for his attention", and your wife being cheered on "as the favorite" in this competition for the other man, it sure sounds like your wife did some of the pursuing. Maybe not initially, but eventually. Edited January 8, 2017 by Try

[Whitestar]

Every time I feel melancholy about being single I read one of these long threads and feel so thankful for my uncomplicated life. The wonderful thing about LS for a romantic like me is that it has killed all my remaining romantic illusions about women stone dead. This thread though has been especially instructive in its tragic awfulness. I wish the best for the OP and admire his Stoicism.

Edited January 8, 2017 by Whitestar

[ShatteredLady]

Every time I feel melancholy about being single I read one of these long threads and feel so thankful for my uncomplicated life. The wonderful thing about LS for a romantic like me is that it has killed all my remaining romantic illusions about women stone dead. This thread though has been especially instructive in its tragic awfulness. I wish the best for the OP and admire his Stoicism.

 

 

Yep! Reading an exclusively INFIDELITY related forum is going to do that to you! This isn't most people's experience of love & marriage. If you can be a good partner, an honest, cherishing & loyal husband your experiences, hopefully, will be completely different from what you read here.

 

If I said that ALL men are shallow, cheating scum how would you feel? If you know deep down inside that that's completely untrue of you then you stand a far better chance of all your romantic notions coming true!

[Whitestar]

I had no romantic illusions about men. I did have about women. Thank you LS for destroying them!

The truth shall set you free!

 

My ex gf was the epitome of a 'nice girl'. Bookish, empathetic, romantic introvert. Lived together for 3 years. Didn't stop her ****ing my friend and blaming me for it....

Edited January 8, 2017 by Whitestar

[BuddyX]

I had no romantic illusions about men. I did have about women. Thank you LS for destroying them!

The truth shall set you free!

 

My ex gf was the epitome of a 'nice girl'. Bookish, empathetic, romantic introvert. Lived together for 3 years. Didn't stop her ****ing my friend and blaming me for it....

 

That's when you go on a tear with the following quote in mind "disregard females, acquire currency". Google it, you'll know what I mean.

 

You quickly realize AWALT (All women are like that).

 

I'm dating, but I'm cautious.

Edited January 8, 2017 by BuddyX
Grammar

[Cephalopod]

Ml

 

Drone, most affair partners are a trading down. It's all about the affair partner makes the cheater feel. When playing with a "lower" individual the cheater feels empowered, worshipped, idealized. All ego kibbles.

 

Even Halle Berry has been cheated on by multiple partners.

 

It's an unhealthy way to manage personal deficits.

 

It's a character flaw in my opinion.

 

If she manages stress in unhealthy ways this is an extension and more damaging example of it.

 

Unless HUGE amounts of personal work and therapy is done on her part it will be a repeated behavior.

 

Good points.

 

And I think a lot of cheaters affair down because it gives them a sense of control. Control can be an addictive drug, and if this OM was of a lower or equal species, she probably got off on the power she had over him. Not so much with her husband, who is obviously her superior in most ways that count.

[Drone117]

So, basically, she said "I'm married!", he said "I don't care!" and then she said "You have flattered me, sir, and now I don't care that I'm married, either!"

 

Well, removing all complexities and pretty words from the equation... Yes.

[ShatteredLady]

I had no romantic illusions about men. I did have about women. Thank you LS for destroying them!

The truth shall set you free!

 

My ex gf was the epitome of a 'nice girl'. Bookish, empathetic, romantic introvert. Lived together for 3 years. Didn't stop her ****ing my friend and blaming me for it....

 

 

Please read what I said again before you attack. I'm not your problem. I used the example of "men" so you, a man, would see how extreme your views are being.

 

I'm sorry that you were so deeply hurt. I (contrary to your current thought process) am also a damaged, betrayed person. I have NEVER cheated on anyone in my life.

 

You (& the OP if he allows his experience to color his view of the entire opposite sex) are far less likely to find happiness in your future if you think this way. You are also in danger of taking your revenge on other women, further inflicting pain on yourself & changing her as you have been changed by that awful life experience.

 

I'm not your enemy. You lashed out without reading. I can understand that that reaction comes from a deep pain inflicted upon you. Please remember that your 'friend' also betrayed you. Are you going to hate & have zero trust for EVERYONE because of this? That would be tragic.

[Drone117]

With other women in competition with your wife "for his attention", and your wife being cheered on "as the favorite" in this competition for the other man, it sure sounds like your wife did some of the pursuing. Maybe not initially, but eventually.

 

No. With his pressure, peer encouragement plus what you'd call weak boundaries she didn't have to do any pursuing. Just drift with the flow.

[Drone117]

Yep! Reading an exclusively INFIDELITY related forum is going to do that to you! This isn't most people's experience of love & marriage. If you can be a good partner, an honest, cherishing & loyal husband your experiences, hopefully, will be completely different from what you read here.

 

If I said that ALL men are shallow, cheating scum how would you feel? If you know deep down inside that that's completely untrue of you then you stand a far better chance of all your romantic notions coming true!

 

Even at worst moments I'd say that sort of generalization feels somehow stretched too far.

[BuddyX]

No. With his pressure, peer encouragement plus what you'd call weak boundaries she didn't have to do any pursuing. Just drift with the flow.

 

So you're saying he initiated every conversation? Odds are, they went NC few times and she reached out as well. Think about it, your wife enjoyed the attention, if it got pulled she went back to the source.. I guarantee.