Is anything going on

[Drone117]

Hi Drone,

 

Have you exposed to her family yet?

 

Does your child know why ?

 

What are the terms you are looking for in the divorce?

 

Take pro-active steps to protect yourself from her re-writing the marriage to family, friends and your son. Please !

 

Yes.

Only to a degree that is appropriate to his age.

I'm looking for a reasonable favorable terms, however I admit at the moment I'm not getting full hostile which will get me a better terms (e.g. worse for her). Old habits die hard.

WIP.

[Drone117]

I thought it strange that co-workers were egging them on while at the same time there have been multiple complaints. Could it be that she misinterpreted their reactions? Especially if the language used was ambiguous.

 

 

 

For example if someone says in English “for goodness sake get a room you two” this is actually an expression of disgust at their behavior rather than encouragement

 

Also even though you believe his wife knows all, I think you should still contact her because it's likely he's not given her the full story.

 

As far as I know some of them were encouraging her, my interpretation is that perhaps they didn't expect her to go all the way. Example. She quoted a discussion with 2 female co-workers when she asked about OM chasing her and how should react. Their response was basically it's ok, flirt a bit, he's so lovely, won't hurt no-one...

 

I (and she) still don't know who launched the complaint.

[Lady2163]

From the beginning of your thread I felt like your wife got played. Whether or not that is true many women do get played. Getting close to fire is fun till things go to far. With the info you have I feel certain you can tell who was after who in the beginning.

 

Here is a post every woman and man should read that was posted on another website years ago. Its interesting that in the US one third of men and women cheat sooner or later but only twenty percent of them ever get caught(according to experts in the field, who knows?)

 

I don't recall who posted this:

 

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

 

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

 

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.

1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).

2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.

3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

 

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

 

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

 

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

 

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

 

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

 

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

 

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

 

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.

 

 

I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

 

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

 

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

 

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

 

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex.

 

 

|

 

I think this was one of,those articles/letters proven to be false.

[aliveagain]

As far as I know some of them were encouraging her, my interpretation is that perhaps they didn't expect her to go all the way. Example. She quoted a discussion with 2 female co-workers when she asked about OM chasing her and how should react. Their response was basically it's ok, flirt a bit, he's so lovely, won't hurt no-one...

 

I (and she) still don't know who launched the complaint.

 

Probably another jilted married co-worker that lost out on his affection. There is an newspaper article that has gone viral in the UK. This all happened over the Christmas holiday and involves a husband and wife that both work for the same company. Apparently the poor husband stayed home to watch their young children while the wife attended the company Christmas party. She got drunk and out of hand and ended up in a cubicle in the woman's washroom with another employee and had sex with him.

 

Other employee's saw them enter the woman's washroom together and filmed them having sex from the next cubical with their cell phone. This is how the poor husband found out about it, the video was sent from employee to employee and someone sent it to him. There was no doubt about it, his wife was clearly recognizable. She had to confess because her sexual escaped made the newspapers. I think this all started because of the encouragement of others and the thing I find most disgusting is they all know her husband, they work with him. I am not sure how this has played out as they have just gone back to work after the Christmas holidays.

 

In my opinion your situation is worse because this was no one night stand, infidelity takes a lot of planning. Just think about the amount of deceit required to hide it from you for so long(planning around your schedules, all conscious decisions, premeditated and sometimes planned weeks in advance). Think about the health risk she put you in for her selfish bit on the side(they always lie about using protection specially if it's been going on for a while, the exchange of bodily fluids is part of the rush). I went through it several times and my policy now is one of no tolerance because you never get over it. The best you can hope for with a lot of counselling is to learn to live with it but it will always be the white elephant in the room. Just read your first posts here, she made you think your going crazy intentionally.

Edited January 9, 2017 by aliveagain

[Chaparral]

I think this was one of,those articles/letters proven to be false.

 

Could be but I doubt it. I've known a man close to this example.

 

Have you checked out the how to pick up women and how to pick up married women sites? I think its quite common.

[Chaparral]

Drone, you should get in touch with the other man's wife. Him coming clean to his wife would be extremely rare. She deserves to know he was pursuing your wife at least. This isn't his first rodeo.

 

Has your wife asked for forgiveness and/or asked you to not divorce her?

 

Take care of yourself. Exercising and weightlifting helps a lot of men. See your doctor if you are not sleeping.

[troubadour]

OP, has your wife ever told you what had attracted her so much to him? Was it his look, personality, or something else? Work affairs are one thing but she seemed to go completely off wheels for him with an absolute disregard for anyone and anything else including welfare of her own child.

 

I wish you good luck and hope that once you are divorced you will never even remotely consider any reconciliation with her. She doesn't deserve it.

[Try]

OP, has your wife ever told you what had attracted her so much to him? Was it his look, personality, or something else?

Based on the OP stating today that "She quoted a discussion with 2 female co-workers when she asked about OM chasing her and how should react. Their response was basically it's ok, flirt a bit, he's so lovely", it sounds to me like she was seeking status and validation with her co-workers, and was encouraged to hear that they too thought that the OM was "so lovely". Sadly, I am guessing that if they had told her that the guy was a loser, she would have dropped the OM like a hot potato.

[Try]

In my opinion your situation is worse because this was no one night stand

I saw the video and it is bad. The other man (OM) is laying back in the bathroom with his pants down and she is on top riding him. The husband, his family, his friends, his coworkers, everyone in the country seeing his wife going at it with this OM in the bathroom would be difficult to top as one of the most horrible and humiliating things a husband could endure. Also, there is no reason to think that this was the only time for her, this was just the one where it was widely publicized in a video. The one in the news blurred some parts, but the video that the husband and the rest of the office saw clearly showed who she was. Edited January 10, 2017 by Try

[WilyWill]

I saw the video and it is bad.

 

The poor guy actually posted on SI. A single post, but then he never came back. I can understand--how humiliating.

[aliveagain]

That is why infidelity is so hard to overcome, the shame the betrayed spouse has to endure in order to save their marriage is almost inhuman. It's the worst form of disrespect one spouse can show another. As if being humiliated and cockold isn't enough the betrayed spouse is forced to eat an additional sh*t sandwich with the knowledge that they can never balance the scales again unless they divorce. The only thing the betrayed spouse can be faulted for was falling in love with a trickster that used that love against them. I would rather be single then have to endure a life with someone I couldn't trust.

[merrmeade]

Drone, the post below made me wonder if you're questioning the information you're getting from her. It seems that you're accepting her version of what happened. The version that the betrayed spouse gets from the WS is always going to put the WS in a better light and shift the blame. You have to question her calling the OW/M the aggressor if you only have the WS's word for it:

... So when he started singling her out and pursuing her, at certain point in time she asked him to stop in a "I'm married" way. He indeed didn't stop and doubled the effort. She took it as something very significant, very bold, bright and attractive. That did make all the difference for her then. Her biggest shock was not even that he didn't take the blame with HR as she was subconsciously hoped AFAIK but when he told her (days when I found out) something like "so what's the big deal, we had fun, now let's pretend nothing happened and your deal with your own family issues".

 

I'm not defending her or trying to shift all the blame on om and make her a victim. For me it is much worse than if she would be pursuing him.

[merrmeade]

I must say she's being quite honest (below):

I have asked her only if she, when she was at the point of no return, realised that knowing me and my perhaps archaic views on marriage and all, this will certainly ends the marriage. Or she was counting on me never finding out? Her response was that part of her knew it, but bigger part was to go ahead anyway. ...

 

But in the next part she does not sound not kind or rational. I saw this behavior also. It's the effect of exposure and their shame. They can only think about what terrible people they are, so they try to point out your faults. I understood this as sort of an explosion of shame that must be shared.

At this point she was starting attempts to find my own faults that could lighten the guilt so the discussion stopped...

[Drone117]

Correct. I'd understand and probably be able to forget a one time romp in a party full of alcohol (maybe) but not them walking hand in hand to a hotel room and taking it from there.

 

And no videos, thanks, I have enough juicy details from the diary already and has been humiliated enough without YouTube videos circulating around.

 

As a matter of update I had draft paperwork made ready for me and am going to give it to her asap. So I hope it'll be over soon, given her state of acceptance and (I assume) attraction to this guy I hope the divorce will be clear.

 

 

Probably another jilted married co-worker that lost out on his affection. There is an newspaper article that has gone viral in the UK. This all happened over the Christmas holiday and involves a husband and wife that both work for the same company. Apparently the poor husband stayed home to watch their young children while the wife attended the company Christmas party. She got drunk and out of hand and ended up in a cubicle in the woman's washroom with another employee and had sex with him.

has

Other employee's saw them enter the woman's washroom maybe together and filmed them having sex from the next cubical with their cell phone. This is how the poor husband found out about it, the video was sent from employee to employee and someone sent it to him. There was no doubt about it, his wife was clearly recognizable. She had to confess because her sexual escaped made the newspapers. I think this all started because of the encouragement of others and the thing I find most disgusting is they all know her husband, they work with him. I am not sure how this has played out as they have just gone back to work after the Christmas holidays.

 

In my opinion your situation is worse because this was no one night stand, infidelity takes a lot of planning. Just think about the amount of deceit required to hide it from you for so long(planning around your schedules, all conscious decisions, premeditated and sometimes planned weeks in advance). Think about the health risk she put you in for her selfish bit on the side(they always lie about using protection specially if it's been going on for a while, the exchange of bodily fluids is part of the rush). I went through it several times and my policy now is one of no tolerance because you never get over it. The best you can hope for with a lot of counselling is to learn to live with it but it will always be the white elephant in the room. Just read your first posts here, she made you think your going crazy intentionally.

[Drone117]

Drone, the post below made me wonder if you're questioning the information you're getting from her. It seems that you're accepting her version of what happened. The version that the betrayed spouse gets from the WS is always going to put the WS in a better light and shift the blame. You have to question her calling the OW/M the aggressor if you only have the WS's word for it: [/b]

 

After she's been getting home and behaving as usual (almost) while sleeping with other man and being all over him, I wouldn't believe anything she'd tell me. I doubt she's lying to her own secret diary however.

[Drone117]

 

Has your wife asked for forgiveness and/or asked you to not divorce

 

Yes, in a way that she's sorry for hurting me and ruining they marriage, not like asking me to forgive her and take her back and blur to divorce.

[merrmeade]

Business as usual? As if nothing happened? Hell no. We are basically like roommates sharing accommodation plus co-parents. Asked her not to engage me unless strictly necessary.

Is she trying to engage me? Constantly, despite the above. The problem is she's nothing constructive to say or more often I cannot understand her cryptic messages. My reading she's accepted the loss of the family and at crossroads so to speak, I could be wrong of course.

Emotions? Constantly. Crying, staring at the wall, spontaneous irritations, etc.

So definitely not an ice queen, however what I see is probably in terms of this forum is qualified as regret. I think her actions match the behavior if the person who's loved one has passed away. Like she's grieving of course, but whatever happened was inevitable so eventually the life will go on. At least that is how I am interpreting her words, writings and actions.

 

My intuition tells me that if I kneel and beg and promise to forgive she might go back but only to have a temporary foundation to move on, so I'm not really considering this option. Really need no breadcrumbs from her.

So what I'm trying to get at is that since you confirmed the infidelity, the information has kind of been both incomplete and inconsistent about what's going on. I've been wondering if you're getting the best advice.

 

You see, the thing is your situation is so unique for two reasons: (1) your access to the diary and, therefore, her thoughts and feelings and (2) language. Your English is great, but I think there've been some gaps in communication. For one thing, once the infidelity was established, we were dealing with another stage, and we just haven't gotten much information about what's transpired between you, what she's said that's made sense (and not the "cryptic messages"), what she understands.

 

Also, no one has explained remorse to you and what she should/would do if she really wanted to prove to you she wants only you - e.g., hand over passwords, open all accounts to you, tell you everything that happened, answer all your questions ...

 

Ahhh, but that's the thing: You already know! So you're not asking or what? That's a really unusual interaction; I can't even imagine it. Here, the BS has the advantage, which the WS doesn't even realize, and the BS isn't asking for an explanation of the affair and the WS's feelings because he feels he knows. But do you? Has she always kept a diary or was it just about the affair? How detailed is it? Does she write about you or other things in general? How has the writing changed since she realized you "know"? Have you talked about how you know? Does she ask you?

 

There are just so many things that I don't think you've been given venue to talk about in an organized way that are very relevant to what you understand and what you do next in relation to your wife and your marriage.

 

I don't think you should kneel and beg or promise forgiveness either. But I do think both you and your wife should be in individual counseling to get help with what is important right now. I do NOT think that Loveshack can serve that role.

[Drone117]

Honestly, not a lot of things she's said make sense to me. In a nutshell I've got a personalized version of " I love you but not in love with you". She keeps saying she loves me but she allowed herself to be involved with the other man. Since this happened she is torn and cannot honestly commit back into the same relationship we've had before. Also as she knows I'm not going to forgive her sleeping with him, the only way forward it's to face the consequences ans she's very sorry I and the kid have to pay the price as well. That she'd wish to take it all back and she should've known better but that was "above her" not to have that affair.

 

Yes, by now I kind of know what remorse looks like, and she's not doing that for the reasons above. Even if she starts doing that, so what? Let's say I have her passwords, 100% transparency and every other choice from the menu - how does it suddenly make everything alright and negates the fact she was all over him in all interpretations of the word until he bailed out?

 

I asked her for the details and got a simplified minimised digest of what happened less details. More or less consistent with what I know. I can push for details that I'm not supposed to one but what would be the point since we are parting ways? Also not sure if I want to hear this from her. Yes she asked me how did I find out. She's got a simplified minimised digest of how did I fund out less details the diary. Unusual, I agree, but again ok for a divorcing couple I guess.

 

She was always using her diary to write just about everything. I knew where her "usual" one is, never wanted any access. Since she started to take interest in this guy, she opened another - the secret one,v dedicated to her relationship with him. That is the date I count her affair from. Thev diary is extremely detailed (she's a good writer, better than me) and she doesn't mention me a lot, mostly about her, him and the office. LIke it was all happening in a parallel world. Since the discovery, there is less about their relationship and more about me. Once again her position is what I wrote at the beginning, she is ready to move on, at least that is how in interpreting it. She's much less in love with him now and regrets ever meeting him but thinks that was almost like a destiny. A lot of worries about the kid and the job and - counterintuitively - about me finding out details (trust me there are not nice), though Im not sure why it matters to her anymore.

 

You are right about the "venue" and I thank you for your questions as a have an opportunity to write about it.

 

Counselling? May consider for myself, she's an adult and now has to decide by herself if she needs one.

 

 

 

 

You see, the thing is your situation is so unique for two reasons: (1) your access to the diary and, therefore, her thoughts and feelings and (2) language. Your English is great, but I think there've been some gaps in communication. For one thing, once the infidelity was established, we were dealing with another stage, and we just haven't gotten much information about what's transpired between you, what she's said that's made sense (and not the "cryptic messages"), what she understands.

 

 

Also, no one has explained remorse to you and what she should/would do if she really wanted to prove to you she wants only you - e.g., hand over passwords, open all accounts to you, tell you everything that happened, answer all your questions ...

 

Ahhh, but that's the thing: You already know! So you're not asking or what? That's a really unusual interaction; I can't even imagine it. Here, the BS has the advantage, which the WS doesn't even realize, and the BS isn't asking for an explanation of the affair and the WS's feelings because he feels he knows. But do you? Has she always kept a diary or was it just about the affair? How detailed is it? Does she write about you or other things in general? How has the writing changed since she realized you "know"? Have you talked about how you know? Does she ask you?

 

There are just so many things that I don't think you've been given venue to talk about in an organized way that are very relevant to what you understand and what you do next in relation to your wife and your marriage.

 

I don't think you should kneel and beg or promise forgiveness either. But I do think both you and your wife should be in individual counseling to get help with what is important right now. I do NOT think that Loveshack can serve that role.

[merrmeade]

That was really clear, Drone and I'm satisfied you are doing exactly what you need to do. You've been amazing throughout. I think you will find someone worthy of you and find peace again.

[Cephalopod]

When a woman checks out she checks out. That's it. Very rarely does a woman become reattached to her husband once she has detached and latched on to a new partner. It's as much a biological thing as a psychological block.

 

First of all she has to want to re-connect and reestablish her bond with you. Sounds like she doesn't want to. If that is the case, you've already lost the fight.

 

Secondly, even if she wants to, she has to do the hard work of not only fixing her issues, but also reestablishing her bond with you and helping you heal from the pain she inflicted on you. Most waywards cannot do all three at the same time. It would take a monumental effort on both your parts for over a long period of time. Do you and her have it in you to do it?

[Drone117]

Secondly, even if she wants to, she has to do the hard work of not only fixing her issues, but also reestablishing her bond with you and helping you heal from the pain she inflicted on you. Most waywards cannot do all three at the same time. It would take a monumental effort on both your parts for over a long period of time. Do you and her have it in you to do it?

 

I think this is somewhat a rhetorical question. It looks obvious to me she doesn't have it (at list when it comes to me) and I don't have it to do it all on my own (I simply see no justification of such humiliating and futile attempt). So the divorce in my eyes is but that much of an attempt to punish her or "kick her out of the fog" but the most logical and natural way forward flee both of us.

[Jersey born raised]

Has there been any new devopments at her work?

 

Have you decided the issue of custody?

 

Can you afford to stay in the home or in the neighborhood to preserve your child's social circle and school placement?

[Jump Through Loops]

I think this is somewhat a rhetorical question. It looks obvious to me she doesn't have it (at list when it comes to me) and I don't have it to do it all on my own (I simply see no justification of such humiliating and futile attempt). So the divorce in my eyes is but that much of an attempt to punish her or "kick her out of the fog" but the most logical and natural way forward flee both of us.

 

I believe she stated previously that she's lost you for what she did to you, so she's already resigned herself to that fate. She's an intelligent woman so I'm sure she's therefore already worked out that there's little point in even attempting to reestablish anything with you. 'She' has lost 'you'.

 

 

I'm left wondering what her reaction would be if she was given something to grasp onto in regard to the above, other than the fate that she firmly believes awaits her.

[Chaparral]

Is there anything she could do to make you consider reconciliation?

[Jersey born raised]

Look, previous posters, remember how we speak a lot about the WS having to do the heavy lifting? While doing the heavy lifting is many things it starts with the BS struggling and keep struggling to find a way, a reason.

 

Mrs Adams had a brilliant insight on another thread with a gaslighting WW: she has given you every reason to divorce, that is not the issue. The issue is she has not given you a single reason to stay!!! A WS rarely finds a single reason for the BS. It is the repeated attempt to find reasons that resonate for both spouses that is the foundation for a sucessfull reconcilation. At best his WW spouse is a rather cruel passive-aggressive attempt to manipulate him. A reason to divorce not reconcile.

 

Drone is doing the heavy lifting to get out of adultery which is the number one rule. Kill the adultery either though reconcilation or divorce. He has meant with and is filing for divorce. Giving the circumstance that is the only way out,

He states he does not write well in English but I sense real pain and reluctantence to divorce but determination to end the adultery. Good on him.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Jersey born raised