Is anything going on

[Drone117]

Drone,

 

I wanted to add a few observations based on your posts that may be important considerations:

 

Your WW appears to be somewhat passive aggressive in her comments stating that "I knew I lost you" she is effectively making this decision for you without a bilateral conversation / discussion. Is this her normal disposition? May I suggest that you tell her that this is either cowardly or passive aggressive behavior and that if there is any interest, she should express her thoughts, feelings and directions now as this is a crossroad for not only the two of you but also for your family / child.....she should think long and hard.

 

This is not to say that what she wants or desires will follow but at least there will be knowledge from the two people in the M that will have expressed their perspectives at this crossroad. Otherwise, she will be cut loose and left to the whims of the OM on a foundation built on no more than a couple of months of secrecy, lies and cheating. That foundation does not seem to be a stable life for her and her child if this goes the way it appears she is accepting.

 

If she were willing to work and do all that you can think of, is there a way that the family unit may be preserved?

 

Thanks for your posts as it is I am sure painful and heart wrenching. We all feel for your but i want to stress to you that this is your decision and no one else's. Please hold on to that right and take the time to consider everything, not just the anger and hurt components here.

 

 

I'd say rather passive than aggressive. That's definitely not her normal, perhaps she's made the decision already and getting me ready for it or she's honestly lost and confused. In any case she's far from happily moving on (presumeably with him) or working on the marriage. Crossroads it is. She also knows that longer it takes, the more likely I'm moving on without taking her position into account.

 

Thank you, I post here because it makes me feel better and I get good advice. I'm not masochist nor I enjoy suffering so if it gets awkward I'll stop.

 

- this accurate from what her journal and what she has said?

I think it's reasonably accurate.

 

- Can you tell if the A is still ongoing?

I don't think they are physically seeing each other these days. I have not seen any mention of "it's over, forget I ever existed" call. She commented that his only comms since that day was (he told him I know) "should I be worried?", which she didn't like. But who knows what's going on in the office.

 

Very sad, has there been any discussion regarding the custody of your child?

I'll respond separately.

 

Also what about exposure to her family and friends, i know you said you had no family to fall to for support, i hope you have a few friends that you can lean on.

 

Not a lot of any - of that closeness I mean.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Drone117

[Drone117]

Ok then... why not tell her you want her in IC and to be spending 150% of her energy repairing the damage she has caused?

 

And suggest she prove her devotion by repairing the trust she's broken...

 

I would tell he, absolutely, if she made her mind, starred trading steps and asked me for advice. Is it worth doing that if she's not?

[Drone117]

Thank you, and I'd user your post to ask the question I wanted to. 1st I agree with your "rules" and would be happy if she had strength and maturity to do something like that.

 

The rules I was referring to are different. I informed her about my demands for her j involvement with him while we are under the same roof (which was her wish mind you). I don't believe - and I'm asking for input from you and others- they were too harsh or unreasonable. Like no open contact with him until we are divorced, no sneaking around and especially that he and our kid are on different planes of the universe (absolutely no contact or mention or anything).

 

I am totally confused about hey reaction, she basically collapsed and was crying and sobbing and what not.

 

What is so unusual in what I asked for?

 

 

Yes I agree with you that it would be hypocritical and counterproductive her to file a complaint in this situation - especially since she needs to be bending over backwards to accept responsibility for her actions rather than doing anything that would transfer blame. (I've been there - you get so used to justifying things to yourself that it's easy to try to justify it to others. I'm very ashamed of some of my initial reactions in that regard...)

 

I'm glad she's agreed to a few rules. I've been doing a lot of reading on infidelity this year, and the general consensus is that if a wayward spouse has ANY hopes of having a successful reconciliation, they need to: 1) cut off all contact with the affair partner (which includes quitting their job if it was a workplace affair); 2) write a no contact letter to the affair partner with their spouse's oversight and send it ("I am working on my marriage. Never contact me again." Etc); 3) go into individual counseling, and marriage counseling later once individual counseling has helped the person understand and work on their issues that allowed them to cheat; 4) have complete transparency - a completely open book on texts, email, facebook, GPS tracker on the phone, etc (you don't have to look, but you should be welcome to at any point) 5) tell people close to you - the betrayed spouse needs that support, and the cheating spouse needs to face the consequences to some degree; 6) basically agree to do whatever their spouse needs from them in order to be a "safe partner" to the betrayed spouse; 7) NO blame-shifting or minimizing of the affair.

 

You might google "the 180" - it's the recommended approach for when the wayward spouse is still in the affair fog or trying to have it both ways. It's a way to take back control of your life, and as a side effect, often forces the wayward spouse into snapping out of their fog.

 

I sincerely wish you good luck. Thank you for your kind words as well, I truly appreciate it.

[Birdies]

Thank you, and I'd user your post to ask the question I wanted to. 1st I agree with your "rules" and would be happy if she had strength and maturity to do something like that.

 

The rules I was referring to are different. I informed her about my demands for her j involvement with him while we are under the same roof (which was her wish mind you). I don't believe - and I'm asking for input from you and others- they were too harsh or unreasonable. Like no open contact with him until we are divorced, no sneaking around and especially that he and our kid are on different planes of the universe (absolutely no contact or mention or anything).

 

I am totally confused about hey reaction, she basically collapsed and was crying and sobbing and what not.

 

What is so unusual in what I asked for?

 

No that's certainly not too harsh. If you are living under the same roof, it's the least that she can do. If she wants to act like she's single / dating someone else, she shouldn't get to live like she's married. I think it'd be fair to demand the whole open phone, know all the passwords, GPS tracker on phone business as a condition of staying in the house. (Granted, legally you may not be able to kick her out. But you should be able to use your leverage as the betrayed person to demand it.)

 

What you asked for is NOT unreasonable at all! But her reaction isn't surprising, although I know super hurtful. She is in the "affair fog". An illicit affair is like a drug, and going cold turkey is really really hard. She either thinks she's in love with him or is addicted to the ego rush of the attention / secrecy. It's hard for the person to come to grips with their whole secret world collapsing like a house of cards.

[Drone117]

No that's certainly not too harsh. If you are living under the same roof, it's the least that she can do. If she wants to act like she's single / dating someone else, she shouldn't get to live like she's married. I think it'd be fair to demand the whole open phone, know all the passwords, GPS tracker on phone business as a condition of staying in the house. (Granted, legally you may not be able to kick her out. But you should be able to use your leverage as the betrayed person to demand it.)

 

What you asked for is NOT unreasonable at all! But her reaction isn't surprising, although I know super hurtful. She is in the "affair fog". An illicit affair is like a drug, and going cold turkey is really really hard. She either thinks she's in love with him or is addicted to the ego rush of the attention / secrecy. It's hard for the person to come to grips with their whole secret world collapsing like a house of cards.

 

It kind of makes sense, the slap of reality. Especially as I understand when it comes to the kid. I guess he can replace the relationship she had with me, but can't replace the one 3 of us had.

 

Which brings me to the next point: few times I've been asked if I'm willing to take her back if she suddenly does this and that. The truth is, probably not. I really want to, and she keeps telling me she loves and never stopped loving me, but after what I've seen in the diary... Without getting too graphical, I don't believe it is possible to make me to believe that and that she's chosen me. You know, even if you are happily married for much longer then we are and there is no affair, there are details about your previous relationships you never tell your SO unless you are both into it. I just don't think its possible and can't imagine what needs to happen to change that.

 

Anyway, it's not on the table.

 

That's it from me.

[aliveagain]

It kind of makes sense, the slap of reality. Especially as I understand when it comes to the kid. I guess he can replace the relationship she had with me, but can't replace the one 3 of us had.

 

Which brings me to the next point: few times I've been asked if I'm willing to take her back if she suddenly does this and that. The truth is, probably not. I really want to, and she keeps telling me she loves and never stopped loving me, but after what I've seen in the diary... Without getting too graphical, I don't believe it is possible to make me to believe that and that she's chosen me. You know, even if you are happily married for much longer then we are and there is no affair, there are details about your previous relationships you never tell your SO unless you are both into it. I just don't think its possible and can't imagine what needs to happen to change that.

 

Anyway, it's not on the table.

 

That's it from me.

 

Drone, infidelity is the worst form of disrespect one spouse can show another. In my world as of now, I have zero tolerance for infidelity when it comes to me. If your stupid enough to cheat on me you don't deserve being part of my life anymore. Most people are better off having me in their lives then not, I share my success with people I love. I will never allow someone that makes sh*tty choices have control over me, that's why I sometimes get a little short when people post about waiting for their spouse to become repentant. How logical is it that bringing a third person into your relationship will fix your relationship problems? Some betrayed spouses will spend years in agonizing pain waiting for their spouse to come out of their fog.

 

There are only a couple of things that will bring reality back for a wayward spouse, playing the pick me dance or trying to nice them back always fail(you lose whether you reconcile or divorce). Why prolong the pain because nothing will ever erase the treason they bring into your life. The best you can ever hope for is to brainwash yourself into believing you can live with the imbalance their infidelity has created. Have respect for yourself because they certainly don't, if they truly did infidelity would never happen. Don't let them dump the weight from their shoulders onto yours, let them eat their own well deserved sh*t sandwich.

Edited December 14, 2016 by aliveagain

[road]

What ever Drone117 does to the POSOM is what he has coming to him. The POSOM went after a married woman, what ever happens he asked for it. He played the game now it's time to pay the price.

 

Hence the work place exposure.

 

 

People here can ignore this but I have seen too many affairs restart because NC was not put in place. If the job is determined to be more valuable then the job then that shows were their priorities are. Sad.

[tinkerbell16]

Thank you, and I'd user your post to ask the question I wanted to. 1st I agree with your "rules" and would be happy if she had strength and maturity to do something like that.

 

The rules I was referring to are different. I informed her about my demands for her j involvement with him while we are under the same roof (which was her wish mind you). I don't believe - and I'm asking for input from you and others- they were too harsh or unreasonable. Like no open contact with him until we are divorced, no sneaking around and especially that he and our kid are on different planes of the universe (absolutely no contact or mention or anything).

 

I am totally confused about hey reaction, she basically collapsed and was crying and sobbing and what not.

 

What is so unusual in what I asked for?

 

Drone, mine collapsed, sobbing at my feet as well upon discovery, yet he is still with his work affair partner almost 3 years later. It's not a sign of their feelings towards you so much as they are crushed their cake eating has ended.

[doyathinkso]

You're wasting your time even talking to her. Just serve her the papers already.

[WilyWill]

Your demands are very reasonable. I think what's making her cry is the reality that she might be divorced soon. When the affair was a secret, this reality was something she never had to face.

 

Serve her now, let that reality hit hard, and then spend as much time as you need gauging her reaction to her new reality. Start talking about living arrangements and visitation schedules. Do it over email to keep it unemotional. Inform her that you'll be doing a DNA test in your child. This is also a big dose of reality, and makes her look in the mirror.

 

How hard will she work to get you back? Maybe it's not even possible, but there's no reason for you to show your hand early. The divorce can be stopped at any point if she's able to meet your conditions.

[merrmeade]

How hard will she work to get you back? Maybe it's not even possible, but there's no reason for you to show your hand early. The divorce can be stopped at any point if she's able to meet your conditions.

This is the ONLY policy that supports even the possibility of a successful reconciliation. I wish I'd been given more straightforward, factual arguments to do this when I was dealing with all the upheaval following discovery of my husband's cheating. YOU have to be willing to lose them for them to realize THEY will lose everything. Like I said, wish I'd known and believed this then. I remember the look on his face was always as if he was weighing the probability that I'd walk away and expose him or stay and rug-sweep with him. Fear of exposure is what drove my husband probably 90%.

[Birdies]

I've also cried my eyes out more this year than in the rest of my life put together, and I know this sounds nonsensical, but the vast majority of that is just the overwhelming guilt and remorse of having hurt my (now ex) husband so badly. Long marriages can be filled with so many complicated and conflicting emotions, and even when I was so resentful towards him and was able to do the mental gymnastics to justify cheating on him , I still cared deeply for him. Knowing that the person I loved most in the world was in such horrible pain because of my cruel actions was very tormenting. (Not trying to elicit any sympathy or say that this is moral in any way, just explaining.)

 

So, I'm just saying that, if it makes you feel any better, she could truly regret her actions and the pain it's caused you. My ex and I had a lot of honest talks and I know that for him, seeing me so remorseful really helped him work through it.

 

Or maybe she just doesn't want to face the music. Likely a combination of both.

 

Anyway, take care buddy.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Drone,

 

Though work I have meet some very evil and warped individuals. As a young man and even at age 61 I still cannot understand how some people can be like this. The OM's comnent caused me to become very alarmed. It reflects a level of depravity. He needs to fornicate with an endless number of woman to satisfy a warped sense of reality. Your wife is silly child in falling prey to him.

 

I strongly urge you to begin discussing divorce with your wife. (did I miss the post about custody?). As long as she thinks the adultery may lead to a long term relationship she will not realize how foolish she is.

 

I know you are conflicted. You are a fixer, like many men. Yet after you fix it you begin to realize WHY? This occurs usually about 9 to 12 months into an attempt to reconcile. It is often refered to the lethal plain of flatness.

 

To begin if you deciede to dirvorce what laws will be followed; where you currently live or your homeland. I recently did some searches on divorce laws in Spain. If you are Spanish seems Spain will recognize most of the divorce settlement but some aspects may need to be recognized in a Spanish court as well.

 

From day one of your thread I urged you to lay the ground work for a divorce, not because you need to divorce but rather if you deciede to you can proceed quickly. This reflects a valuable lesson I learned as a young man and at 61 I am telling you the times I ignored it I got burned badly: think twice, plan once, when you decide act boldly.

[Drone117]

These latest posts are extremely helpful and (especially some) provided me with the inside I wouldn't get from anywhere or anyone else. Timely and priceless.

 

I need more time to process it, but from where I am right now , the remaining bit, no matter how consuming it is, is just the logistics.

[Drone117]

 

Is she the type to avoid conflict?

 

Usually, not at all.

[Drone117]

Drone, mine collapsed, sobbing at my feet as well upon discovery, yet he is still with his work affair partner almost 3 years later. It's not a sign of their feelings towards you so much as they are crushed their cake eating has ended.

 

Hold on. He? Husband? ...

 

Sorry

[lovechunker]

I agree with a lot of others. Good insight here. Being that you're in a 10 year marriage you would obv deal with this different than if its a 3 year bf/gf thing. Best approach here is to act interested in whatever you're suspicious about. You'll have to hide your emotions from this and just act like you are "curious about your friends life" kinda thing. Definitely don't deny your gut feelings. I would follow gut in a relationship 10,000 times more than outside appearance, especially with women. In my experience, I would say something is up. Doesn't mean an affair, just means you are aware that your relationship does not feel as it used to. If you try to do as I said before, and she doesn't open up, then you know somethings going on. The hardest thing with your situation, is knowing somethings up, but hiding emotions. Do what you gotta do to act like you're not suspicious but still get to the root of the issue. Honestly, sometimes life just takes a little gently bluntness to make things come to a head. If she's doing something bad, she is going to bury herself deeper and deeper until communication really drops. Definitely don't jump to any conclusions and work out work out work out to relieve your stress. Not only will this be attractive to her, but it will clear your mind to come into whatever situation with clear/positive emotions. My last parting tidbit, never trust what a woman says to you if she isn't sharing her feelings. If a woman is in love with you, she will do 3 main things. 1) she will use a lot of affection 2) she will share her feelings more than you want her to 3) she will share her deepest insecurities and make tons of future plans with you included in every friggin one and then you're like "listen we don't got the money or the time to do all that crap but i'm in"

 

Peace (Y)

[Drone117]

My ex said he loved me too... I said "you've got an awful way of showing your love".

 

I kept thinking if this is the way he lives then I don't want any part of it. He loved me as long as he got to do whatever he wanted as long as I went along with it. I couldn't reconcile it in my mind without forfeiting my self respect... and that's when I knew it was completely over for me.

 

Eleven years later - he says he still loves me. I don't want his brand of love!

 

The bottom line was (after 23 years) he wasn't the man I thought he was. I had no trust in him and therefore there wasn't any reason to continue.

 

I knew I deserved better than who he had become.

 

 

I get it, as if it is some sort of a valid excuse, it makes things better. When I got it from her directly that was only the second time (the other one when I was taking about him and my kid) when I regretfully lost my composure and allowed myself to be... Menacing,,? Spiteful?

 

Worst thing - I think she believes that.

[tinkerbell16]

Hold on. He? Husband? ...

 

Sorry

 

Yes, husband, now ex husband. We were together almost 30 years when he started a work affair.

 

He still, to this day, says he loves me. Told me he cries almost every day.

 

Go figure. Hs still with his affair partner.

 

I am happy now. In the end I divorced him because I knew I could never respect him. I realize now, like S2B says... he was not the man I thought he was.

 

It is tramatic to say the least. The level of betrayal. I still have moments of almost PTSD symptoms. Mine was living a double life basically. I was completely blindsided.

 

It was the hardest thing I ever went through but I am so happy I am not tied to him and his drama any longer.

 

Every single day I am enjoying life to the fullest and ZERO regret while my ex tells me he is full of regret... but that is his karma, not mine

[Drone117]

I know I'm not here to comment on other people's stories. The fact that you (all) are kind enough to share them is good enough. I was just surprised by that sort of behavior which is in my opinion is kind of weird (for a man).

 

Glad you are happy now.

 

 

 

Yes, husband, now ex husband. We were together almost 30 years when he started a work affair.

 

He still, to this day, says he loves me. Told me he cries almost every day.

 

Go figure. Hs still with his affair partner.

 

I am happy now. In the end I divorced him because I knew I could never respect him. I realize now, like S2B says... he was not the man I thought he was.

 

It is tramatic to say the least. The level of betrayal. I still have moments of almost PTSD symptoms. Mine was living a double life basically. I was completely blindsided.

 

It was the hardest thing I ever went through but I am so happy I am not tied to him and his drama any longer.

 

Every single day I am enjoying life to the fullest and ZERO regret while my ex tells me he is full of regret... but that is his karma, not mine

[tinkerbell16]

I know I'm not here to comment on other people's stories. The fact that you (all) are kind enough to share them is good enough. I was just surprised by that sort of behavior which is in my opinion is kind of weird (for a man).

 

Glad you are happy now.

 

Lol

 

Be prepared for some extremely weird, unpredictable, confusing behavior from your wife... it's part of this crazy period after discovery.

 

They are confused, in affair fog. They are like addicts. Sacrificing all for the "fix".

 

If they were rational minded they wouldn't be having affairs to begin with.

 

How are you doing? Is she indicating any desire to work on the marriage with you?

[Drone117]

Lol

 

Be prepared for some extremely weird, unpredictable, confusing behavior from your wife... it's part of this crazy period after discovery.

They are confused, in affair fog. They are like addicts. Sacrificing all for the "fix".

 

If they were rational minded they wouldn't be having affairs to begin with.

 

How are you doing? Is she indicating any desire to work on the marriage with you?

 

I'm right in a middle of it. I'm now effectively a subject of each and every funky "term of trade" you all seem to be using here - minimising, gaslighting, blameshifting, poweifting, overcompensating and some other I haven't heard.

 

All it took is too mention separation, divorce, custody and division of assets in a matter-of-fact, logistical manner.

 

Boy, has it kicked her out of the state of apathy...

[Cephalopod]

Stop talking about divorce and do it. The weakest thing you can do is make threats and then not follow through.

[Drone117]

I'll add . Maybe this is a preamble to starting to work on the marriage, who knows, as the other poster said one help of a way to show it. Or maybe s she's starting to work on their marriage?

[Drone117]

Stop talking about divorce and do it. The weakest thing you can do is make threats and then not follow through.

 

That's what I meant by "matter of fact". Doing that. Did some research on they procedure, got the list of lawyers to meet, getting furnaces in order, so on. She saw be doing that.