Is anything going on

[Drone117]

True remorse wouldn't look like what you're describing - not after everything that's happened.

 

There's a big difference between being sorry you did it - vs - being sorry you got caught and willing to do anything/everything to repair the damage you've caused.

 

She seems she is sorry she got caught.

 

In the near future - expect her to create some chaos to grab your attention - so you come running. It's usually a trip to an emergency room or some sort of drama designed for you to run to her = don't fall for this important tactical move/manipulation. Be warned: be ready.

 

You are correct. I don't know, that's what I'm saying. I also don't know what this "doing everything/anything" would involve and look like. Really can't fathom anything like it.

 

I'm also taking note about that stands warning and would be grateful for any extra thoughts on the above, "just in case".

 

Thank you.

[Jump Through Loops]

Well, you tell me (by "you" I mean the collective brain power of this forum, not personally you) - is there anything a women could do under these specific circumstances?

 

Let me explain. First of all, chances she'll do anything above what's going on are low. I'll be presenting her the draft paperwork within hours from now, I have asked her for a "time you talk" and she didn't flinch, just said "ok".

 

let's assume however that some of you are correct and she all of a sudden rolls up her sleeves and starts behaving like a really remorseful WW. I won't deny part of me wants that. But here comes my brain dump: she ticks every checkbox on the list I've seen here: total transparency, I have all passwords, she owns her affair up publicly, resigns, goes to counseling, officially dumps the OM... Have I missed anything? All of this will give the a solid indication and even confidence she wants her marriage back, nothing more than that. Nothing which would make her as attractive as a partner before the affair.

In other words, she allowed herself to check out of marriage, be totally owned - even disrespected -'by some office dude (trust me this was some heavy stuff I had to read) , who realistically just dumped her - then she cones back, ok, proves to me 100% she wants things as they were... and that's it? Knowing she is remorseful am I expected to just take her back as if nothing happened? Or am I missing something? Once again, say i know she is remorseful I have no doubts. Am I expected to say "honey welcome back", live for another week or two with tears, shaking and "what have I done"s which I have plenty now and than we are back to being lovey dovey having fun couple enjoying each other like ever before?

 

 

Especially if this happens after the divorce, I assume she may start everything hard - on her backup plan.

 

Drone,

Of course she is remorseful, but as you've already stated, she knows you'll never forgive her anyway, so she's clearly resigned herself to that fact. Her displaying this, her displaying that or anything else is futile. She knows this, you know this. There's nothing she can do other than to fall on her own sword (accept divorce).

 

 

Do I believe she want's a divorce? Nope. I don't believe it for a second, but divorce it must be...

[Jersey born raised]

Wow, that's not a big if, that's a 800,000,000 million winning lottery ticket. Just to clarify the what if she.... Was just an exmple? Has she actually done any of the things she mentioned?

 

If she did all of them that's just a 20% down payment on a thirty year mortgage for a home in a very uncertain job and real estate market. It sets the stage and all you do is to make a good faith effort that includes her sharing her issues with you to you and you working to improve yourself.

 

Look she has to make the effort, she has to put it all on the line first. She has to accept that healing the MARRAIGE (marriage, you and her in that order).

 

So stop the what ifs and focus on what is. Accept the loss, and it huge accross the board, and focus on recovery without her.

[Jersey born raised]

Jump though loops, did you base your comments on she actually did all the things Drone mentioned? My comments are based on she has not.

 

Bye the way Drone, what is her work situation with HR?

[Jump Through Loops]

Jump though loops, did you base your comments on she actually did all the things Drone mentioned? My comments are based on she has not.

 

Like you, my comments are also based on why she's not actually doing all those things.

Divorce is inevitable as she knows this is the course of action Drone is going to seek, hence the lack of action on her part to save the marriage other than the occasional cryptic messages that make no sense (fishing).

 

 

She's resigning herself to the divorce, the divorce that she knows is coming, the divorce that she knows she deserves, the divorce that she knows Drone is seeking to implement, but that doesn't mean to say she wants the divorce. On the contrary in my view, but hey, what else can she do when divorce is inevitable? Nothing.

[merrmeade]

You know, even if Drone's wife was doing everything on the True Remorse list and then some, it's STILL up to him and perfectly understandable if he knows that he simply wouldn't be able to live with her, knowing what he knows of her affair and her inner thoughts. It's nice he explains to us and maybe (I hope) helpful to him, but he really doesn't need any more reason than "this is what I have to do; this is what I can live with."

 

Plus, he has the added reality of those inner thoughts: the diary. It turns my stomach to think of what he must have read. I had access and time to extricate my husband's deleted email messages from his phone, but I was in such a hurry I didn't read instructions carefully and accidentally overlaid one file on all the SMS files. I'll never know what they said, but I do believe that, if I had read them, I might have decided there was no point in trying to get that out of my head.

[kgcolonel]

You know, even if Drone's wife was doing everything on the True Remorse list and then some, it's STILL up to him and perfectly understandable if he knows that he simply wouldn't be able to live with her, knowing what he knows of her affair and her inner thoughts. It's nice he explains to us and maybe (I hope) helpful to him, but he really doesn't need any more reason than "this is what I have to do; this is what I can live with."

 

Plus, he has the added reality of those inner thoughts: the diary. It turns my stomach to think of what he must have read. I had access and time to extricate my husband's deleted email messages from his phone, but I was in such a hurry I didn't read instructions carefully and accidentally overlaid one file on all the SMS files. I'll never know what they said, but I do believe that, if I had read them, I might have decided there was no point in trying to get that out of my head.

 

 

Merrmeade, I fully agree with you here....sometimes knowing too much can prevent us from mending our hearts. The thoughts of Drone's wife, excluding the descriptions of their encounters which for me would have been the toughest part to have to read, may have been "in the moment fog perspectives" and not her permanent and long-term thinking or thoughts. That said, I am confident that she assumed that her journal would be private and likely would have been able to explain this affair away by minimalizing it. She still would have had to deal with the corporate issues she is facing but likely would have lied about those too.

 

This is an example of how potent and damaging the "affair fog" thinking truly is. She has blown up her family over a couple of sex encounters. She couldn't think clearly enough to realize that he was, 1. married, 2. using her for a sex toy, 3. wasn't at the same place as her emotionally. She also couldn't see that her betrayal extended beyond the sex outside of the marriage but also betrayed her child of an intact loving supportive home. This is one of the saddest threads I have encountered here.

[drifter777]

You are correct. I don't know, that's what I'm saying. I also don't know what this "doing everything/anything" would involve and look like. Really can't fathom anything like it.

 

I'm also taking note about that stands warning and would be grateful for any extra thoughts on the above, "just in case".

 

Thank you.

 

The chances of a husband successfully reconciling with his WW are low. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen or can't happen, just that it's a very long, tough road and ends in divorce as often as not.

 

It seems as if a man is not bothered by the sex nearly as much as the lying - he has a decent chance to reconcile. But when the most crushing component of her cheating is the sex, divorce is a much better path to follow. Your situation - the sex diary - is probably just about as horrible as walking in on them screwing in your bed. Those words are burned into your psyche and will never be erased.

 

Your wife seems to intuitively know that ending your marriage is what's best for each of you. Now, since all people fear change - especially change this radical - both of you will have a strong temptation to just rug-sweep this with her saying "I'm so sorry!" and you "we can get through this". Don't fall into this false forgiveness trap - it never lasts and you will end up facing all of this disgusting mess, for real, anyway.

 

You need to stop cohabiting - one of you has to leave. It's important that the process of detachment get started so you can be looking forward instead of remaining stuck in the pain of the present.

[drifter777]

...

This is an example of how potent and damaging the "affair fog" thinking truly is. She has blown up her family over a couple of sex encounters. She couldn't think clearly enough to realize that he was, 1. married, 2. using her for a sex toy, 3. wasn't at the same place as her emotionally. She also couldn't see that her betrayal extended beyond the sex outside of the marriage but also betrayed her child of an intact loving supportive home. This is one of the saddest threads I have encountered here.

 

This really struck me because to me, this thread and the basic story is one I've read hundreds of times. There reasons for her cheating that you list seem almost universal to me. Every one of these threads makes me sad...

[Drone117]

Jump though loops, did you base your comments on she actually did all the things Drone mentioned? My comments are based on she has not.

 

Bye the way Drone, what is her work situation with HR?

 

No conclusion yet. They will give the verdict to her next week. My gut feeling (long story, months ago hey co worker got terminated, they handled it differently) she will keep her job, perhaps get transferred, reprimanded, whatever. But what I have learned and this feels like an icing on the cake to me. Apparently he blamed her and they were basically going to take his side (as far as I can tell) and get her fired if not one thing. I think I have posted their affair (t the physical part) stated on a business trip. So it appears that he subsequently arranged for her to come to at least 2 trips where she strictly speaking didn't belong to just so they can f...k. They have a very strict travel policy so that made all the difference to them.

 

Now it makes sense why was she going on these trips do eagerly. For some strange reasons

the memory of her packing up her stuff and me giving her a lift to the airport when she knew she's going only to cheat is very hard to swallow (on top of anything else I know). I also understand now that all these " how are you, love you" messages she sent to me as she usually does were likely to be sent from they room they eye in together. Awesome.

 

Funniest thing? She took that news really hard (I'd be relieved if I.was her) and wrote that it is hard for her not to share this with me to get my support she needs so much now.

 

I left her the draft legal paperwork with the "please review asap"' sticker.

 

Sorry for the rant.

[tinkerbell16]

No conclusion yet. They will give the verdict to her next week. My gut feeling (long story, months ago hey co worker got terminated, they handled it differently) she will keep her job, perhaps get transferred, reprimanded, whatever. But what I have learned and this feels like an icing on the cake to me. Apparently he blamed her and they were basically going to take his side (as far as I can tell) and get her fired if not one thing. I think I have posted their affair (t the physical part) stated on a business trip. So it appears that he subsequently arranged for her to come to at least 2 trips where she strictly speaking didn't belong to just so they can f...k. They have a very strict travel policy so that made all the difference to them.

 

Now it makes sense why was she going on these trips do eagerly. For some strange reasons

the memory of her packing up her stuff and me giving her a lift to the airport when she knew she's going only to cheat is very hard to swallow (on top of anything else I know). I also understand now that all these " how are you, love you" messages she sent to me as she usually does were likely to be sent from they room they eye in together. Awesome.

 

Funniest thing? She took that news really hard (I'd be relieved if I.was her) and wrote that it is hard for her not to share this with me to get my support she needs so much now.

 

I left her the draft legal paperwork with the "please review asap"' sticker.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

So sorry Drone,

 

It is mind boggling and so sad when it seemingly comes out of the blue and frustrating when you can't fix it.

Betrayal is soul crushing.

 

I am a few years post d day. I am in love and happy.

 

Know that it can and will get better.

 

Never let what she did define you.

 

Keep your head high and look towards the future.

 

Hugs, Tink

[Miky]

Rant away Drone, this is what this forum is for, to be a support system for you

[Jersey born raised]

Left her the legal draft with an ASAP sticker - well done sir.

 

Bye the way have you discussed with your lawyer your right to compensation if the terminate her and your child support and spousal support increase? In the US you must have standing to sue. Standing means you suffered or will suffer a loss and standing is usually very narrowly defined. But loss of money always gives standing. Don't hesitate if this is the case. Have your lawyer send a letter to them informing them you intentions if they terminate your wife.

 

Please refresh my memory: who have you exposed her actions to ?

[Jersey born raised]

A further note: a pattern of firing the female and retaining the male is defined as creating created a hostile work place environment.

 

Is she telling you this info or are reading it in her dairy? Again I don't have a problem with you reading it, until a final divorce settlement is reached. Then and only then would it be wrong.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Jersey born raised

[WilyWill]

She... wrote that it is hard for her not to share this with me to get my support she needs so much now.

 

That's rich. You were the rock she took for granted. Now she can spend the rest of her life kicking herself for trashing her family just to chase a worthless backstabber. What's surprising is that she hasn't yet had that moment of sobbing on the floor, begging for forgiveness. She either has too much pride, or knows that it would be fruitless.

[S2B]

Did she sign the paperwork today?

 

It said asap... hopefully she doesn't hesitate.

 

Getting them signed while she is still (now) earning money is key!

[S2B]

That's rich. You were the rock she took for granted. Now she can spend the rest of her life kicking herself for trashing her family just to chase a worthless backstabber. What's surprising is that she hasn't yet had that moment of sobbing on the floor, begging for forgiveness. She either has too much pride, or knows that it would be fruitless.

 

I can't believe the ego on her...

 

She expects support emotionally from you after what she's done? Hard to believe she has a soul.

[Jersey born raised]

No she does not expect support, hence "I wish". Often a state of shock sets in that freezes a BS. During that period the WS is twenty steps ahead and setting the terms leaving the BS even more dimished. This is the rare case, once or twice a year accross several boards, that WS freezes and the BS sets the terms.

 

Go back and read this thread. Drone refused to believe his wife would do this yet took steps to dig. He discovered her journal and dispite the doubts, the fears of an uncertain future and his grief he moved aggressivly with attorneys to divorce. The entire time he refused to do the pick me dance. Instead he focused on what could be done.

 

So she is frozen. At some point she must likely unfreeze but the point is Drone is pushing ahead. Best guess as to when, when the child is told of the divorce and the reason for it.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Jersey born raised

[kgcolonel]

No conclusion yet. They will give the verdict to her next week. My gut feeling (long story, months ago hey co worker got terminated, they handled it differently) she will keep her job, perhaps get transferred, reprimanded, whatever. But what I have learned and this feels like an icing on the cake to me. Apparently he blamed her and they were basically going to take his side (as far as I can tell) and get her fired if not one thing. I think I have posted their affair (t the physical part) stated on a business trip. So it appears that he subsequently arranged for her to come to at least 2 trips where she strictly speaking didn't belong to just so they can f...k. They have a very strict travel policy so that made all the difference to them.

 

Now it makes sense why was she going on these trips do eagerly. For some strange reasons

the memory of her packing up her stuff and me giving her a lift to the airport when she knew she's going only to cheat is very hard to swallow (on top of anything else I know). I also understand now that all these " how are you, love you" messages she sent to me as she usually does were likely to be sent from they room they eye in together. Awesome.

 

Funniest thing? She took that news really hard (I'd be relieved if I.was her) and wrote that it is hard for her not to share this with me to get my support she needs so much now.

 

I left her the draft legal paperwork with the "please review asap"' sticker.

 

Sorry for the rant.

 

Drone, something very similiar happened in my company a few years back....in office and business travel affair ongoing for some time. Both were in management positions but the fact that he included her on business travel where she had no influence or place to attend however, he was dismissed. Frankly in the case I am speaking, both should have been dismissed as if they'd do that to their own families and to each other's families, what would they not to to their employees? Not fit for management in my opinion.

 

You said that she wrote that she took the news hard, was it that the OM was fired or that she was going to retain her job but be reprimanded in some way? Interesting as you say.

 

It has to be hard for you as I can't even wrap my head around how she can remain what appears to be a stoic stance here knowing at least her time with you and her child will be cut in half....(assuming the laws where you are as similiar to here, 50 / 50 shared custody.)

[road]

Drone, something very similiar happened in my company a few years back....in office and business travel affair ongoing for some time. Both were in management positions but the fact that he included her on business travel where she had no influence or place to attend however, he was dismissed. Frankly in the case I am speaking, both should have been dismissed as if they'd do that to their own families and to each other's families, what would they not to to their employees? Not fit for management in my opinion.

 

You said that she wrote that she took the news hard, was it that the OM was fired or that she was going to retain her job but be reprimanded in some way? Interesting as you say.

 

It has to be hard for you as I can't even wrap my head around how she can remain what appears to be a stoic stance here knowing at least her time with you and her child will be cut in half....(assuming the laws where you are as similiar to here, 50 / 50 shared custody.)

 

Simple his AP would claim sexual harassment that is why she went on trips and had sex with her co-worker. So the company fires him. Does nothing to her so no law suit. Eventually after no raises, no promotions, re-organizations in the office, slowly changing job duties so the fun things are gone and only gets the PIA work. Eventually she quits.

[WilyWill]

Road's got it right. She's really facing the end of her career at the company. Sure, she can continue working there, but they will never promote her or put her in charge of anyone. They wanted to fire her, but were afraid to because of a potential sexual harassment claim. A judge would not look favorably on the fact that she was brought along on business trips, an implied condition of her employment, to serve as a sex consort. But the employer regards her as a liability and potential troublemaker. Perhaps she knows this and it's causing additional stress.

 

In any case, it's not Drone's problem anymore. I suspect she's learned a number of valuable lessons about marriage and employment. Too bad it was all too late.

[selfawareness]

Hi Drone 117. Thank you for sharing with us. I have a few questions if you don't mind.

 

Do you consider yourself good looking? Do you consider your wife soon to be ex, in the same level of appearance as you, better or worse? Did she consider the other man better looking than you? Was there anything about the other man that she found more appealing than you? Is he taller? Was she on the low end of sexual encounters or had she been pretty liberal when you came into her life? Would you have considered your wife the low self esteem type? Is the other man of the same color as she is? Do they speak different native languages? Has she had any major trauma in her life prior to this? How was your married social life? Did she have any hobby in common with you? Did she want more than one child? Did her parents divorce?

 

Well some questions are very subjective, others you may not know the answer to. ..thank you for sharing with us.

 

Some may take these questions the wrong way, im just trying to get 'inside her head a little' to know what led her to such monstrous decisions.

 

Once again thank you and I'm praying you find the strength to go on and not give up hope in the better things of life.

[Drone117]

I think you guys have hit a bullseye with your last posts. At this moment I don't think I'm capable of writing anything consistent but for the sake Iofv letting it out.

 

I believe that's exactly what happened wrt her work. No official conclusion yet but all signs indicate she'll end up with a serous slap on her wrist, I guess for exactly the reasons you mentioned. She also knows her career is over and is going to look for other jobs. She's already subject of office gossips and "look it's her" looks. She was expecting him to make it all go away as he apparently had great relationship with execs, instead her tried to blame her and was spreading some of the rumors I mentioned, like she was wh..ring around with other men. She's in true shock because of this - based on what l know she was completely attracted to his boldness, disregard for marriage, arrogance, even disrespect, now she sees what it actually leads to - according to her.

 

To be clear she never counted or demanded my support, she just admitted and wished she could have it. Couple of times, out of habit I guess, she was trying to initiate the discussion about her work situation. Each time I was torn between shutting her off or listening to learn what's going on directly. Each time however she had to stop herself first just by looking at me - because when you think about it it would look totally stupid, unfaithful wife complaining to her husband about her office troubles caused by her affair.

 

The paperwork. She didn't have to

sign it, it's draft, I wanted to get her agreement in principal. What happened is - when she got to read it - she seem to have had that "moment" many of your were talking about. So all of a sudden she went from accepting the divorce, being stoic about it (using your word) and torn between two men and moving on being single to being crushed, regretful, not wanting to loose her husband and wanting to do "whatever I wish" to fix things. Lot of tears and emotions to put it mildly.

 

I was absolutely surprised by her reaction, as I read not hiding my divorce preparations, she knew about the paperwork so I was caught off guard. The only rationale l got from my source is. My purposed divorce plan is very even, fair, balanced, whatever you call it. I decided to do that instead of trying to squeeze everything legally possible. According to her (and this is contrary to her statements that divorce is best for both of us) she seem to be thinking me getting ready to file as some sort of punishment, revenge, whatever. When she looked at the proposal she apparently realised I just want this to be over asap (which is correct). So that "shattered her reality".

 

I see absolutely no logic in this, but that's what it is and I have to experience this when I thought to path is set for both of us. I hate this.

[BluesPower]

Yes, she had the moment that all of us were talking about.

 

I think finally after almost getting fired, career being dead at that company, OM who she thought she loved dumped her in the grease to save himself, now she is just starting to realize what a fool she was.

 

It will get worse as it totally sinks in to her brain how she was played by her OM who she was so torn about.

 

But, none of this should change your mind in the slightest. Even though you were told that this would happen it is eye opening for you to actually see it yourself.

 

One of the biggest problems is that you actually know how she was feeling during the affair and everything they did together because of the diary and it will probably be impossible for you to get over that and I don't blame you.

 

She knew exactly what the results would be when you found out and she did it anyway, so you need to stay the course and move forward.

[usa1ah]

Your wife is just like all the other cheating wives out there. They believe they will get away with it. That their husband will relent and forgive them like so many do. With you proceeding with the divorce you have broken the normal path. I am sure she has done her research on this sense you have found out.

 

Now she is going into phase two of making sure you stay put.