Is anything going on

[BluesPower]

Sorry candle, no way should he divulge how he caught her.

 

And she already knows how wounded he is.

 

Drone, don't do it...

[WilyWill]

At this point his wife is not entitled to any privacy, as far as I'm concerned. I would not tell her about his access to the journal.

 

Two reasons:

 

1) Should he choose to reconcile, let her continue to express any doubts, fantasies, or feelings she has for OM in her journal. He can make a more informed decision based anything she might write in there.

 

2) It will turn into the "how dare you invade my privacy" conversation, taking focus away from the affair. She'll tell Drone that she and he are now on equal footing because they've both wronged each other. Not productive to reconciliation.

[Marc878]

Never reveal your sources.

[merrmeade]

It depends on his goal - reconciliation or separation. In the latter, no, nothing to gain by telling but in the former, more secrets would be deadly.

[GoldenR]

Assuming you try to R, remember those 3 immortal LS words:

 

Trust, but verify.

 

You can't do that if you reveal your sources.

[Drone117]

I don't feel very proud of spying on her like this. Yet at the same time it's so clear to me is that my worst nightmare these days is thinking what could have happened if I didn't read it. What I mean it is not joy reading about their emotional and physical escapades, but I shiver imagining staying married like usual for years and not knowing what happened.

 

So this diary - at the same time - is the trigger for divorce (no way she is wearing this ring anymore) , and some glimpse of R. Like she writes some extreme stuff about herself and it's hard to read, but it seems she's honest. She wrote she is terrified of me asking for details, and how she'd react as she promised herself to be honest with me no matter what, and it is heavy so I don't ask. So this - that I'm not asking - in turn freaks her out. Complicated.

[Drone117]

Hi Drone, I just wanted to say that she needs to know that you read her diary if she doesn't know yet. If she doesn't know it she doesn't know to what depth you have been wounded. Along these lines, total transparency is necessary for her to try to make amends that would be meaningful to you.

 

I'm not disagreeing... Although this feels odd...

[BluesPower]

Drone, so where are you now...

 

I know it is probably hard to write a little (little longer) synopsis of where you are at now. But frankly we would all like to know.

 

Also, writing about the current state of everything and may help he solidify and understand your own feelings.

 

So, what are you feeling now and what is the status of everything? Or has nothing changed?

[TobyBoy]

I don't feel very proud of spying on her like this. Yet at the same time it's so clear to me is that my worst nightmare these days is thinking what could have happened if I didn't read it. What I mean it is not joy reading about their emotional and physical escapades, but I shiver imagining staying married like usual for years and not knowing what happened.

 

So this diary - at the same time - is the trigger for divorce (no way she is wearing this ring anymore) , and some glimpse of R. Like she writes some extreme stuff about herself and it's hard to read, but it seems she's honest. She wrote she is terrified of me asking for details, and how she'd react as she promised herself to be honest with me no matter what, and it is heavy so I don't ask. So this - that I'm not asking - in turn freaks her out. Complicated.

Even in her journal, it's still all about her!!! That's regret not remorse. When your feelings are at the forefront, then maybe she will show remorse. For now, it's still about her and what SHE is losing. Move on Drone.

[merrmeade]

Assuming you try to R, remember those 3 immortal LS words:

 

Trust, but verify.

 

You can't do that if you reveal your sources.

And you can't reconcile if either one is still keeping secrets.

 

I don't see it happening if they can't even have the conversation about trusting or one/both see(s) a counselor to get more perspective. This is not criticism by any means, just observation, because I am the last one in a position to criticize another for not holding fast to this final proof of remorse.

 

Just saying that neither of them seems to want it enough to make the first step and give up the one secret that makes them feel safe - him: her diary; her: the details. Somebody has to be the first to make the plunge and open up this chasmic vulnerability to the other. If neither can or does, it's a catch 22 and time to move forward with the other plan: divorce and happiness elsewhere (not to mention some painful mixed metaphors ).

[S2B]

I don't feel very proud of spying on her like this. Yet at the same time it's so clear to me is that my worst nightmare these days is thinking what could have happened if I didn't read it. What I mean it is not joy reading about their emotional and physical escapades, but I shiver imagining staying married like usual for years and not knowing what happened.

 

So this diary - at the same time - is the trigger for divorce (no way she is wearing this ring anymore) , and some glimpse of R. Like she writes some extreme stuff about herself and it's hard to read, but it seems she's honest. She wrote she is terrified of me asking for details, and how she'd react as she promised herself to be honest with me no matter what, and it is heavy so I don't ask. So this - that I'm not asking - in turn freaks her out. Complicated.

 

IF you even consider reconciling or forgiving her - you're gonna have to ask those tough questions. Avoiding what has happened never healed any relationship.

 

Since she's not offering her truth and you're not asking = there's no way to get to the issues at hand.

[aliveagain]

I don't feel very proud of spying on her like this. Yet at the same time it's so clear to me is that my worst nightmare these days is thinking what could have happened if I didn't read it. What I mean it is not joy reading about their emotional and physical escapades, but I shiver imagining staying married like usual for years and not knowing what happened.

 

So this diary - at the same time - is the trigger for divorce (no way she is wearing this ring anymore) , and some glimpse of R. Like she writes some extreme stuff about herself and it's hard to read, but it seems she's honest. She wrote she is terrified of me asking for details, and how she'd react as she promised herself to be honest with me no matter what, and it is heavy so I don't ask. So this - that I'm not asking - in turn freaks her out. Complicated.

 

 

How can you know if you can forgive her if you don't know how bad it is, what are you forgiving? Her shame in disclosing the depth of her betrayal will act as a future deterrent just like making her take a full STD test with you present. Ask, put her to the test, do not avoid the truth because you need to know how deep the rabbit hole is and if reconciliation is a possibility the last thing you need is discovering new information months or years down the road and derailing reconciliation.

 

Sell her rings, buy something nice for yourself. Make her buy new rings with her own money and have her explain to the priest why you have new rings. A post nuptial is another future deterrent, some argue that they are hard to inforce, who cares because it will cost her a fortune in legal fees to find out if it is enforceable. The threat of a polygraph should be enough to get all of the truth. The fact that you have been dating will make it easier to get over the feeling of her being soiled by another man, that's the hardest for many of us men to get over. Stay strong.

[Sweetfish]

I don't feel very proud of spying on her like this. Yet at the same time it's so clear to me is that my worst nightmare these days is thinking what could have happened if I didn't read it. What I mean it is not joy reading about their emotional and physical escapades, but I shiver imagining staying married like usual for years and not knowing what happened.

 

So this diary - at the same time - is the trigger for divorce (no way she is wearing this ring anymore) , and some glimpse of R. Like she writes some extreme stuff about herself and it's hard to read, but it seems she's honest. She wrote she is terrified of me asking for details, and how she'd react as she promised herself to be honest with me no matter what, and it is heavy so I don't ask. So this - that I'm not asking - in turn freaks her out. Complicated.

 

 

Drone... this is not a point of time to start feeling sorry for what you did. You need to protect your self and kids. To protect you and your kids and the rules may have to be bent to achieve that. Telling her about the reading her journal or not doesn't change anything.

 

It was her shifty behavior and aurora of mistrust that required you to dig deeper.

[Marc878]

It may be best to divorce and tell her she can work her way back after. Nothing says you have to offer reconciliation. The marriage is destroyed anyway.

 

You'll know that way if she's serious about a future with you and your child.

 

Many times it's not remourse but regret at getting caught and losing their lifestyle, etc.

[Jump Through Loops]

So this diary - at the same time - is the trigger for divorce (no way she is wearing this ring anymore) , and some glimpse of R. Like she writes some extreme stuff about herself and it's hard to read, but it seems she's honest. She wrote she is terrified of me asking for details, and how she'd react as she promised herself to be honest with me no matter what, and it is heavy so I don't ask. So this - that I'm not asking - in turn freaks her out. Complicated.

 

Yes, it is complicated, so why not uncomplicate things and start acting like a normal BS and demand the full details even though you already know them. You really need to get her to do this for both of your sakes, especially if there's a slight possibility of an R. Give her the opportunity to show how honest she is prepared to be in order to help you to decide which road to take, D or R.

 

 

Remember, you're currently not acting like a normal BS because you're not asking for details. Also remember your wife isn't acting like a normal WS because you haven't asked for those details. Both of you are in limbo. It's something you have to demand and it's something she has to do. It's a very important/normal part of the process.

 

 

Demand she write down a complete timeline of the affair, together with her thoughts during that time. If she honestly wants to be 100% truthful to you she may well give you access to her diary. If she doesn't then you can compare what she has omitted from the diary entries to determine what she doesn't want you to know and what she is ashamed of you knowing, for example.

 

She's promised herself to be honest with you. It's time to put that promise to the test.

 

 

Then you can decide with a clearer head which road to take.

 

It has to be done.

 

All the best in whatever you decide to do.

 

Respect.

[WilyWill]

Demand she write down a complete timeline of the affair, together with her thoughts during that time.

 

This is a great idea, even just as a tool to gauge her commitment to honesty going forward. You can compare it against her journal and to if she's intentionally left out certain details.

[S2B]

We're not getting many details lately of what's happening - and that causes us to assume you have your head in the sand, especially since you don't want to ask her for details.

 

What's been happening with you and your wife lately?

[Drone117]

Ok, many valid questions and opinions. I feel compelled to respond: few pages ago someone asked me not to be like some other poster who apparently just disappeared. So I will, just give me some time for a few posts.

 

For now, short summary: status quo except I filed. And of course it didn't go down well.

in addition to that, a small snapshot of my brain, which may clarify some questions and especially the one suggesting we both may not want it bad enough. Plus suggestions she only thinks about her and I should - rephrasing - offer her I chance of R with no commitment from my side. This is all true but only partially.

 

First, correct I don't want it bad enough. Typically if i really want something I get it. So perhaps my hesitation means I don't. She as it seems to me really wants it. Last couple of weeks she is very clear about that and actually trying everything I could imagine to prove this to me. I've been asked what seems to be ages ago was she writing about me inher diary when the affair was on. Well it's now mostly about me. I feel no pride or an ego stroke writing this, but that's how things are. When she wasv writing about telling me the details, she was sure it will break me and not sure if she should be proactive with that. At the same time she is freaking out I'm not asking. It was like the divorce settlement: she wrote that she'd prefer not to tell them, but she'd prefer that pain and shame over my indifference.

 

Should i ask? Absolutely , i agree, as also i could then verify she's honest. Ok, at the moment i confess i can't stand this coming from her lips. What i red is bad enough. Weak fool if you like.

 

Making first step and offering her R with no commitment on my side. Sound idea, only I'm not wired that way. I can't say "keep the hard work you are doing and I'll be watching this from my point of being distant, paissed of, cranky for indefinite time".

 

If I offer surging l something like that I got to change, ever slightly. How do I did that?

 

Well actually we did have a similar discussion (I asked if she is prepared to live with me being like that, she said yes.with no hesitation). Good idea, I agree, I'm just not there yet, divorce feels like an easier option now.

 

Not a lot of facts, mostly emotions, right?

[BluesPower]

Glad that you are giving us an update...Keep posting.

 

On the sex issue, how bad could it be? I mean for some, any sex is a deal breaker, for some it is not.

 

But you allude to something that you just can't get over, maybe. I mean was the sex for her the "Best sex she had ever had", or is it something more?

 

Was it a type of sex or a particular act. You don't need to get graphic, but a lot of us are really curious about this aspect of the affair.

 

Could you enlighten us in this area, I mean it is not like your gonna run into us at the grocery store...

[Jersey born raised]

One of the best pieces of advise given here, IC first for both of you, then MC if IC seems to indicate it may be worth wild.

 

Second while it is true at some point the BS needs to give guidance right now what is she reading about how to reconcile and heal the marriage? She can't just sit still!!

 

Next must WS will trickle truth which is like pouring salt into a wound. Which is why she needs to discover on her own some hard truths. Such as complete honesty. If she had been honest with you before the adultery started this whole mess could have been avoided.

 

Women and men tend to gave a good girl/boy vs bad girl/boy side. Both need to intergrated into the marriage which is hard. Could this be the case?

 

Again you need IC to explore parts of you that you never realized existed.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Drone, you seem to be computer savvy so I'll try and put across my suggestion using computers as an analogy. I t seems to me that you are leaning toward reconciliation but are running up against some significant mental blocks. If that be the case then considering my earlier analogy of your wife trying to use the recovery point method to get back to a state which existed prior to her sabotaging your union, I would suggest the following. You save all the good, positive data from your marriage and let the spurious data(Bad memories) be deleted. You then re format your brain, wiping it clean so that the jumble of good and bad memories are all wiped out. Finally you re load your operating system so that your brain is ready like a clean slate to be filled with fresh unspoiled data. You then restore the good data that you had saved and carry on form there.

 

So how do you achieve this? Of course it will not be as simple as I am making it sound because a computer is a machine and a Human Being is just that a Human Being. However, as suggested earlier in a previous post of mine, You achieve re formatting by divorcing your wife so that all that baggage you are carrying around is dumped. This process will take time as both you and your wife will grieve the loss of your relationship but that grieving is a necessary part of the process of leaving behind toxic memories. Also, divorcing gives you the option of loading a newer and later version of an Operating system. In other words you are free to find and marry another woman and make a fresh start. However your wife represents someone who you are comfortable with and who you know better than any new lady you might meet and like. So you have a choice to revert to her and take her on board.

 

After having divorced your wife, you allow a cooling off period which combined with the grieving process will help you deflate the toxicity that her infidelity brought into your union. At the same time if your wife is committed to making it her goal to get back with you, she will move Heaven and Earth to work on herself and identify and resolve all those issues that led her into infidelity in the first place. If you are still interested in letting her back into your life you will be able to see for yourself the changes that she has wrought in herself and will be able to evaluate whether these changes are wide and deep enough to, in a way, define her as a completely new person and one with whom you can spend the rest of your life. This would be like re loading a new operating system which is clear of any glitches that might have existed in the old one. Of course I know that you will never be able to forget how she betrayed your trust and hurt you. However , her sincere and deep seated efforts to eliminate her toxic issues from her persona and come out smelling of roses will go a very long way to mitigate and devalue the potency of of the toxicity that she served you with. In other words the remorse, which she may not have felt as yet or displayed in plain sight, will be very evident to you and this will also be something which will help erase the pain and hurt that she dished out to you. I know what I am saying looks very convoluted but in simple words it just means that you divorce her, give both of yourselves a cooling period, grieve the loss of your marriage and then look at your options.

 

The most obvious would of course be to find another attractive and compatible partner to live out the rest of your life. However the down side of that is, as they say, the new lady would be an unknown Devil. You would not know in advance whether she would also cheat on you or not. You would take time to get to know her at a deep level and establish a close bond with her as you did with your current wife. With your current wife you know to the extent of 99 per cent what you are getting. The bond is still there. The knowledge is also there. Of course there is this bump in the your marital life and harmony, but with various means at your disposal and at your wife's disposal this bump can be reduced to a small kink which you will be able to handle. So I guess the choice is yours. Who was it who said" To be or not to be, that is the question", Hamlet? Warm wishes.

[Drone117]

Not sure what exactly you want to know. Let me say - yes it's a deal breaker. I'd probably forgive the emotional component. Even now when she's doing imo everything possible and impossible, and part of me wants to R, I just physically and mentally unable to warm up to a women - my f..g wife - who was fornicating with some all talk dude, then coming home loving and charming as usual.

 

What really affects me is that was not a spontaneous ons in a moment of weakness nor was that a spark of sudden passion. There was a distinct moment that evening when she was in full conscience at the crossroad, the go or no go point. And she decided to go, knowing what is about to happen next. She made a choice then - as she is aware now - it was not the right for her choice. To illustrate, there were people at the room who observed their flirting and literally told her "please stop, danger, don't do it". She ignored.

 

I terms of how good the sex was and all. You know what, if she'd be starving in the marriage, if that guy was more physically attractive and better performer, I'd understand. I understand women finding better man (and moving on with him preferably). Instead according to her she wasn't really enjoying it that much. It was all about him and she went out of her way to keep him pleased. And allowed herself to be totally disrespected in the process. There was nothing she wasn't doing for me, not at least she was liking it and I never disrespected her.

 

Now, if she'd be telling me this (as she is constantly trying to do now, less the details) I wouldn't believe for a second. But I trust her diary. So she is barking thev wrong tree - trying to convince me she didn't enjoy it that much. While internally I know that, only - counterintuitively - this makes things worse.

 

Glad that you are giving us an update...Keep posting.

 

On the sex issue, how bad could it be? I mean for some, any sex is a deal breaker, for some it is not.

 

But you allude to something that you just can't get over, maybe. I mean was the sex for her the "Best sex she had ever had", or is it something more?

 

Was it a type of sex or a particular act. You don't need to get graphic, but a lot of us are really curious about this aspect of the affair.

 

Could you enlighten us in this area, I mean it is not like your gonna run into us at the grocery store...

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Drone,

 

I seem to be slow on the uptake today. So to clarify:

 

Her diary confirms she did nothing she had not done with you.

 

Her diary confined she was not enjoying the sex to much.

 

Her diary confirmed it was not about the sex but about him.

 

What it boils down to it was about being his boyfriend and "winning" him using sex to keep him interested?

[road]

Hi Drone,

 

I seem to be slow on the uptake today. So to clarify:

 

Her diary confirms she did nothing she had not done with you.

 

Her diary confined she was not enjoying the sex to much.

 

Her diary confirmed it was not about the sex but about him.

 

What it boils down to it was about being his boyfriend and "winning" him using sex to keep him interested?

 

Women use sex to get emotional needs met during an affair.

Men give emotional needs to get sex during an affair.

Standard basic affair story. So as with many other WW's the sex

with the OM was nothing special. Totally believable fact. For many

other WW's the affair sex was the best ever.

Problem is how does the BH know if the WW is lying when she

tells her BH about the sex during the affair with her OM. Was the

sex special or nothing special.

[aliveagain]

And that's all it took to throw a good marriage away, validation from someone who is half the man that you are, openly flirting in front of people you both know, bad sex with someone who doesn't give a sh*t about her, how little value she placed on the years you struggled and sacrificed. It always bothers me to know that someone would so easily give away what you as her husband cherish so much and would risk your life to protect. She knows this but it wasn't enough to stop her from doing it anyway. What a selfish, selfish act. I guess she puts more value on you now that you know her truth. Funny how they all wish they could go back in time and undo what they did but that's as much fantasy as their affair was, you can't go back and you can't unfu*k yourself. You need to do what is best for your healing, she made her choices.