Is anything going on

[troubadour]

 

Her view can be summarized as following: she's been raised as a faithful woman and was a loving wife. That was her foundation and cultural background . She was smitten by the bravado and boldness of the om when it comes to marriage and relationship and felt that foundation is limiting her. As a result she has not only not advanced in that department but also ruined that foundation.

 

 

The above is the part that I'm finding the most intriguing and struggling with understanding in this whole story. How could an allegedly well adjusted married woman be so impressionable to be willing to ruin her life after listening to some drivel from a dude who clearly wanted to get in her pants?

[BluesPower]

Boa - I have read a lot of your posts. And, you have had some good things to say.

 

However, was it you that got caught in an EA or your husband. I can't remember and I am not like Elaine.

 

I just have to disagree with everything you are saying about privacy in this situation.

 

When you are married and you are wronged this way a man that loves his wife, at first will do anything to find out what is going on by any means necessary. In a marriage you should not have or expect privacy or secrets between you.

 

If that is the way that you live your life, that is your business. Why be married then? Just wondering?

 

Would you not want to have that one person in the world, just one, that you knew loved you and would never hurt you and would never use your secrets against you?

 

Drone was and is correct in using any mean necessary to figure out why the woman that he loved and cherished about all others did this to him.

 

And he has every right to figure out if she is still doing it to him and whether or not he should divorce or R.

[merrmeade]

merrmeade, you said some things on my thread about my EA that I didn't agree with, but you nailed it on this post. I agree 100%.

well, I do need to clarify that I say all that with the forced understanding that waywards take themselves seriously as moral people (yes, I'm being facetious, mean-spirited and bit vicious with that sarcasm). In fact, it always blows my mind that they can take ANY sort of high road after what they've put their BS through with the flimsiest of excuses and absence of logic.

 

So, don't get too excited. I'm not really in "sympathy" with this WS, except to the extent of effort that he reports she's making. But even then, to me it's about the importance of truth and trust in a RELATIONSHIP. He's not doing that and she is trying. It's non-productive and voyeuristic.

 

I don't know what I said about your EA and wouldn't be surprised if it was scathing. I can't defend or deny; I don't remember. But the fact that it bothered you is just my point. Sorry but to me it's the wayward way to make right and wrong relative - e.g., it was just an EA.

 

Oh, here's an example! My sister-in-law/OW, who flipped out at her husband for reading her diary, shared her indignation with my husband, her occasional lover (when they weren't "just friends"). True - I'd just forgotten. Ha! Amazing.

[Sweetfish]

kgcolonel, define a reasonable amount of time. And who gets to decide this?

 

I see a diary in the same vein as therapy. It's off limits. I have an online therapist. Do you think it's okay for my husband to hack into my account and read my correspondence? If so, shame on you. What about hacking someone's medical records? After all, the WW could be pregnant. As the BH, you have a right to know that, don't you? And the only way you can know for sure is to check the online portal of that OB appointment she had last week. It's your right as the spouse to know this, after all.

 

Really, where do you draw the line? Obviously we draw it in very different places. Of that I can agree.

 

I would agree about the BS getting to chose when reconciliation is complete.

 

But a wayward spouse can decide to leave a betrayed spouse during the process too. They can file first. What's stopping them? Nothing.

 

I read about this 180 on here and to file even if you don't want a divorce just to shock your spouse into reconciliation or remorse. It might work....or they might accept and just sign. For this reason, I wouldn't file unless you were okay with your marriage ending the minute you file.

 

I'm not sure what I would have done if my husband had done that to me. I probably would have signed the divorce papers. Filing is a huge step to make that I only think you should make if you truly are okay with your spouse taking your actions at face value and just walking away.

 

But, YMMV.

 

No one claimed otherwise. In fact, I have claimed exactly as you before. The infidelity is far worse. But at least you grant that there is a murky gray level of betrayal here.

 

Regarding health, have yourself tested for STDs and demand results from your spouse. Problem solved without hacking.

 

And I stand by the fact that hacking someone's therapy files is a gross violation. I could not stay with someone who did that regardless of what or who I did. It completely violates the spirit of therapy and all standards of ethics, as does hacking medical records.

 

Go ahead thinking that just because someone wronged you and betrayed you in the worst possible ways means that you are above doing wrong yourself.

 

Hacking anyone's medical or mental health records is not only wrong; it's illegal. You are actually committing a crime. I don't care if you're the spouse. If they haven't given you permission to access that material, you have no legal or moral right to access it. There's no gray area here. No matter how badly you were wronged.

 

Back to the topic, the diary is different. It's not illegal. But it's pretty distasteful to continue reading it, especially since he doesn't want to reconcile.

 

 

So I'm reading your post and I'm like hmmmm. Why so defensive?

 

The reason why your defensive about this diary is because your projecting your own faith or possibility that your own betrayal to your own husband could have unraveled the very same way and it didn't. Don't worry about the methods the O.P. used to decide the truth...because he was being lied to the whole time and the wives privacy and trust went out the door the minute she violated their wedding vows.

 

BOA who is the victim here?

 

The O.P, you or the O.P. wife? You seem to have a higher standard for a diary over cheating? Maybe your moral compass needs calibration or maybe your morals are based on what are in your best interest.

 

Your telling me if you believe your husband was cheating and didn't have proof you wouldn't get hard evidence at any cost? Your telling me if he was doing something shady on his phone every night you wouldn't look? If he got letters in the mail everyday and hid them and never told you about them.. but you just didn't have enough proof to leave or divorce

 

LMAO... yeeeeeeah right... get outta here

 

when you are being betrayed or being wrong.... you don't sit around like a fool.. Maybe that's your advice so you can have time to figure out who you love and have your little away time from the family for kicks... maybe because you were a betrayer you are so fearful and protector of other betrayers.

 

When a family is involved.

When a man has moved from another country and bust his ***

Works and provides for his children and there is a threat, issue, or problem.

 

HE DOES WHAT HE GOTS TO DO.

 

You can cry a river and talk about hacking medical files and so-on... but when it comes to the family: for the better of the nuclear family, rules have to be bent.. Marshall law is in effect... Sucks for the cheating party... next time.. BE AN ADULT. Don't cross the line. If your not happy and sad I read your diary and I even GIVE you a chance... a slight chance to reconcile swallow that pride and ego or sign on the dotted line.

 

This guy is going thru the worse possible event in a man history and this is what your bring Your own little diary doctrine?

Edited February 11, 2017 by Sweetfish

[Overtaxed]

The above is the part that I'm finding the most intriguing and struggling with understanding in this whole story. How could an allegedly well adjusted married woman be so impressionable to be willing to ruin her life after listening to some drivel from a dude who clearly wanted to get in her pants?

 

Oh man, does this comment hit home. How many times have I asked myself the same question. I have their TXT's back and forth; it was SO obvious what the AP was doing it makes my head spin. My wife is almost 40 years old, how could you fall for this drivel?! It's pick-up artist 101, and, frankly the AP wasn't even that good at it. Just compliment after compliment, complete future faking BS that, no matter what my W did, was never going to happen. For him, it was all about sex, it's just that the "drivel" got him the sex, so he kept it coming and laid it on thick.

 

And, in my case, my wife and I have a prenup. And this was a work affair. I mean.. How many times did I ask myself, "You're throwing all that away for this BS, how could you get hoodwinked like this?!". It's honestly one of the saddest parts for me, because although she was clearly at fault, she was also taken advantage of by someone in a position of authority. I just keep asking myself, "How could you not see it"..

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Drone,

 

Did you read the PMs I sent you?

[merrmeade]

Wait a minute. What actually is the point of disagreement? It's not surveillance or monitoring per se; it's the secrecy.

 

After Dday, betrayeds should and do monitor WITH their spouses' knowledge and cooperation. It's the cornerstone of reconciliation as someone indicated already. It helps the BS with the PTSD and helps the WS stay honest. It's a work in progress they share.

 

If it's understood that Drone has access to everything, if there are no hidden areas of their lives, then there's no question of her not knowing or giving permission. She's already done so.

 

I mean my H knows and agrees that we share this access. He'd prefer some privacy but knows it's not an option. He's also generally aware that his tech skills are hopelessly inferior to mine. That itself implies I can see everything he's doing. It's all understood or has been discussed. He accepts it and has nothing to hide.

 

But the diary reading in this case - imo - is pre-Dday-type surveillance. She doesn't know, he says, and he doesn't want her to knoww. For her part, she's still keeping secrets. Why are they still together???

[Just a Guy]

Hi Drone, how is everything going for you and your wife? It is early days just now so of course there may not be much progress toward reconciliation if that was ever on the cards for you. However, your wife's actions since you last posted will give an indication as to whether that is even possible. Do keep position to keep the folk on here abreast of your situation. If you have found the advice given by folk on here helpful, it may be helpful floor you in the future too. Warm wishes.

[Drone117]

Hi Drone, how is everything going for you and your wife? It is early days just now so of course there may not be much progress toward reconciliation if that was ever on the cards for you. However, your wife's actions since you last posted will give an indication as to whether that is even possible. Do keep position to keep the folk on here abreast of your situation. If you have found the advice given by folk on here helpful, it may be helpful floor you in the future too. Warm wishes.

 

Well I've told her about the diary if that's what you are asking about.

[Jersey born raised]

Actually he did not, Drone. How are you coping? How is your child, What is your mind set? What is her mind set?

 

Have you reached a asset division and custody arrangement?

[WilyWill]

I sure hope she didn't have the gall to give you the "How dare you deceive me?" line.

 

Post a more detailed update when you can.

[Sweetfish]

any updates buddy.. hope all is well

[Drone117]

any updates buddy.. hope all is well

 

Thanks for asking. I didn't feel motivated to post here as of recent TBH. The best description to "all" is "stable". I am divorcing, past the point of no return wrt that. She's doing and saying all the right things but it is clear to me I'm in a loose -loose situation here.

 

Didn't get much blame for the diary but the revelation did hit her health hard.

[BluesPower]

So no hope then...

 

I wish you well. I do wish you would let us know how your doing.

 

I am sorry for what is going on.

 

Is there no way to let her back in? Or are you just done?

[Marc878]

Thanks for asking. I didn't feel motivated to post here as of recent TBH. The best description to "all" is "stable". I am divorcing, past the point of no return wrt that. She's doing and saying all the right things but it is clear to me I'm in a loose -loose situation here.

 

Didn't get much blame for the diary but the revelation did hit her health hard.

 

You got the truth upfront which is hard to take but it gives you a great perspective many don't get and wallow in doubt and indecisiveness.

 

Forge ahead you know the score. The heart always wants what the heart want but in reality it's best to be decisive on what your common sense tells you.

 

Sor y man but you're doing what's best and you know it.

[Drone117]

So no hope then...

 

I wish you well. I do wish you would let us know how your doing.

 

I am sorry for what is going on.

 

Is there no way to let her back in? Or are you just done?

 

I am sort of letting you know. The divorce has very little go do with hope. It's been an unavoidable step since the affair came to light. She knew that from day one and told me that does not deter her from dedicating all her time whatever it takes to reunite with me. Even after I told her I cannot imagine sharing my bed with her ever again after what I read. She said she understands but will keep trying no matter what. She is also in counselling although she got rid of the first one who was telling her it is my fault for not letting get back by now.

 

 

So I'm done at least untill I stop feeling insulted and I fell insulted like hell. All this crap about "I love you, there was no ever.a choice between you and him , if it ever was it would be you, blah, blah". Its an insult to my intelligence if you ask me. Of course there was never a choice between 2 men, as the other was simply non-commiting player vs. stable provider and support.

 

So any WW playing this line with her husbabd will be better off thinking for a second what is exactly the message she's trying to get across.

 

I'm also insulted that out of nowhere with no wrongdoing on my side I am in a no win situation: either letting her back an be a guy who let his wife f...k another man and let it go, or be a quitter who's afraid to give R a try and not trying hard enough for his family.

[Marc878]

I am sort of letting you know. The divorce has very little go do with hope. It's been an unavoidable step since the affair came to light. She knew that from day one and told me that does not deter her from dedicating all her time whatever it takes to reunite with me. Even after I told her I cannot imagine sharing my bed with her ever again after what I read. She said she understands but will keep trying no matter what. She is also in counselling although she got rid of the first one who was telling her it is my fault for not letting get back by now.

 

There are a lot of morons in this field. At least she recognized that.

 

So I'm done at least untill I stop feeling insulted and I fell insulted like hell. All this crap about "I love you, there was no ever.a choice between you and him , if it ever was it would be you, blah, blah". Its an insult to my intelligence if you ask me. Of course there was never a choice between 2 men, as the other was simply non-commiting player vs. stable provider and support.

 

The thing is time will tell. Follow through with the divorce and if she's sincere you'll know.

 

So any WW playing this line with her husbabd will be better off thinking for a second what is exactly the message she's trying to get across.

 

I'm also insulted that out of nowhere with no wrongdoing on my side I am in a no win situation: either letting her back an be a guy who let his wife f...k another man and let it go, or be a quitter who's afraid to give R a try and not trying hard enough for his family.

 

IMO you are always plan B in R.

 

 

That marriage is dead and buried anyway. If you are to be together you'd have to start all over again anyway. Would you choose her?

[BluesPower]

Well if you are doing the right thing... then I wish you well.

 

If the fact that she was screwing him is just the deal breaker I get it.

 

I can't imaging what was so great in her mind about the sex that it just killed you.

 

I hope you find a way to be happy.

 

And your right, you are in a no win situation. If you take her back in your mind you are a puss, if you don't, to everyone on the outside you are a bastard.

 

Who cares what others think??? You have to do what is right for you?

 

How is she taking it overall? Or do you care?

 

And why did you tell her about the diary? I am curious about that.

[oldshirt]

 

And your right, you are in a no win situation. If you take her back in your mind you are a puss, if you don't, to everyone on the outside you are a bastard.

 

.

 

I really do not believe that to be true.

 

Her parents and her Aunt Beulah in Idaho might be a bit out off that he is divorcing her, but I don't think anyone else will have an issue with it at all.

 

Staying with a cheater is the new shame. I don't think anyone else will even second guess it.

[sidney2718]

I'm also insulted that out of nowhere with no wrongdoing on my side I am in a no win situation: either letting her back an be a guy who let his wife f...k another man and let it go, or be a quitter who's afraid to give R a try and not trying hard enough for his family. (Quote shortened since the original is right above this post.)

 

You are in a no-win situation because you put yourself there. Why is what people think so important to you? Are their opinions more important than your marriage?

 

Lots of folks have reunited with a wandering wife. They just don't advertise it.

 

And who is going to call you a quitter? Again it seems to be what other people think that matters.

 

Lots of folks have also quit on their marriages. Many are happy with that, quite a few are not.

 

What really matters is what YOU want. You get to win by doing what YOU want to do. You get to prove to everyone that YOU chose the outcome and didn't let the howling crowd tell you what to do.

 

Do what YOU want to do.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Drone,

 

I am glad to hear you are doing ok. Going forward I suggest you be kind to your child, yourself, and gentle with your ex. This is a hard balancing act, one that requires careful thought as you child and your ex are intertwined. Have you done any reading on the subject?

 

I think to some degree it involves acceptance but not forgiveness. Acceptance that she is the mother of your child and therefore you need to be gentle, but not forgiveness. Perhaps "Not Just Friends" while not on topic will provide insights.

[Drone117]

If you are to be together you'd have to start all over again anyway. Would you choose her?

 

From where I am now - logically yes, emotionally absolutely no.

In a future (if she keeps doing what and like she's doing now, which is unlikely ) - logically now, emotionally yes.

 

Only if I ever reconcile logic and emotions ...

[Drone117]

Well if you are doing the right thing... then I wish you well.

 

Thank you

 

-- If the fact that she was screwing him is just the deal breaker I get it.

It was and is

 

--I can't imaging what was so great in her mind about the sex that it just killed you.

I don't get it. Nothing in her mind that "Miller's me. And she described sex as mediocre at best. So the "greateness in her mind" whatever it means is not an issue.

 

--I hope you find a way to be happy.

I will, thank you. ATM it feels really stupid to find myself permanently damaged by this senseless stupid irrational encounter. So I won't.

 

 

--And your right, you are in a no win situation. If you take her back in your mind you are a puss, -- if you don't, to everyone on the outside you are a bastard.

 

Damn right wording except the "others" part. So let me address this and some similar posts later (I thank everyone for posting). 100% if what I posted is about my position, not anyone else's. It is just sometimes when I look at her efforts and impact on my kid I feel like a bastard for not giving her a chance right now. I honestly don't care about the rest (family, friends) who know and have a view. Excluding my kid of course.

 

 

--How is she taking it overall? Or do you care?

I do care to a degree. When she learned I did read her diary she took it very bad - in a medical sense. She also told me she realizes there is no hope and her attempts to get physical with me only make things worse. She has recovered since and picked up the effort.

 

--And why did you tell her about the diary? I am curious about that.

Just wanted to break the cycle and be done. Felt ashamed for keeping it. 5% feedback from posts here.

[Jersey born raised]

A desire/need for closure, overwhelming need. There never is, at some point you reach meh, good enough and just let it go.