A question for the BS's, if your WS had offered an open marriage instead of cheating

[SweetiePi]

As I've grown older, I am more comfortable with my sexuality. Many of us change over the years. As a young adult, I could not come out as bisexual or polyamorous. It was something I told my H and only a couple close friends who I knew would understand.

 

 

If my H approached me and was honest about his desires for other women and men, I would have been open enough to talk about it and negotiate. If he wanted other men, sex with me would be off the plate and I would negotiate having sex with other men myself and stay in the marriage. I love my home life with him and we make good partners in life.

 

 

However, knowing my H 15 years, he hid that he has these bi curious desires all these years. I am much more open sexually than him and over the years had expressed my desires for women and recently a man. I never hid it. He made me feel like I was a sexual deviant, only to find out he hooked up with a man last year. He still has not told me the whole truth. I had to dig for myself and have unanswered questions and even then he denied and denied when I had physical proof. It is more about the way he made me feel about my desires and the trust he broke with me rather than negotiating an open marriage.

[Cephalopod]

My ex wanted us to get into the swinging lifestyle. I told her "hell no". So she started running around on me anyways. So I divorced her sorry ass.

 

I would have never agreed to an open marriage, because in no way would it have been equitable. She would have landed twenty guys for every one gal I bedded.

[JustJoe]

How many times over the last 40 years has the NFL, NBA, NHL etc etc updated their rule books?

 

How many times over the last 40 years has every corporation updated their policies and practices?

 

How many times in the last 40 years has the legeslature repealed laws and added new ones?

 

How many times over the years has The Holy Bible itself been updated and amended.

 

The fact is EVERYTHING changed over time and all policies and practices get updates and changes over time.

 

It is simply unrealistic to think that a 40, 50 or even 60 year marriage will not experience changes over time.

Well, lessee. I know that no sports league very rarely EVER changes the rules in the middle of a season. In fact I know of no examples of this happening.

No political body writes or passes a law, and changes it AFTER it has passed., to something completely different. That would be unconstitutional, without due process.

The Bible has been changed, but never in mid sermon. LOL " thou shalt not kill...Oh wait a minute, lets change that to thou shalt not eat oreo cookies, instead."

Your examples, oldshirt , are very poor, arbitrary, and have zero bearing on the question.

We are not talking about any mutual agreement, or we are talking about a unilateral demand for change of a legal partnership, with or without the consent of one of the partners. I would think that the BS (or person being asked to change) would have no option but divorce, if he/she wants to keep their self respect, and I think it would be duplicitous for the WS (or person wanting to have outside sex) to even ask. It would be much better if the WS had been honest, in the first place, about their sexuality.

[JustJoe]

Im not trying to bust anybody's chops over this question ( which is a good one), but I think what is wrong with this scenerio is the Arbitrary nature of this request/ultimatum, and also it's implied deceit. I was curious, so I asked a couple that I know, who swing, about this. They were unanimous that an ultimatum like this should be rejected as deceitful. Swingers are, in the main, very concerned about integrity within the marriage.

[elaine567]

I have a theory about my wife - feels right in my gut - is that my wife loves me and wanted to marry me and have a family - but found she thrived sexually in an open/multiple partner/poly lifestyle she was involved in between marriages.

... its painful to discover your spouse might want a different lifestyle or relationship that you want or are wired for.

 

Your wife sounds like she doesn't essentially believe in monogamy, is it not her natural way to be, but she has followed the crowd and got married.

Being openly poly past your twenties is seen as "out there" and not "the norm", but all those naturally poly people just end up cheating anyway is my belief. Some take it to extremes and cheat with lots and lots of people, whilst others are happy with only one or a few APs.

They get married as that is the "right" thing to do in this society, but they always struggle with monogamy.

 

It, may seem a sensible option for such a person to suggest an open marriage. They may see it as a great solution to their need for sexual variety, but for the often strictly monogamous "potential BS" it is a disaster as they realize their marriage was based on deceit. The naturally poly person was only pretending to be monogamous.

When a marriage is primarily founded on exclusivity and monogamy, the suggestion by one spouse to "open" up the marriage is abhorrent, hence the calls for "divorce" from most on here.

[oldshirt]

Well, lessee. I know that no sports league very rarely EVER changes the rules in the middle of a season. In fact I know of no examples of this happening.

No political body writes or passes a law, and changes it AFTER it has passed., to something completely different. That would be unconstitutional, without due process.

The Bible has been changed, but never in mid sermon. LOL " thou shalt not kill...Oh wait a minute, lets change that to thou shalt not eat oreo cookies, instead."

Your examples, oldshirt , are very poor, arbitrary, and have zero bearing on the question.

We are not talking about any mutual agreement, or we are talking about a unilateral demand for change of a legal partnership, with or without the consent of one of the partners. I would think that the BS (or person being asked to change) would have no option but divorce, if he/she wants to keep their self respect, and I think it would be duplicitous for the WS (or person wanting to have outside sex) to even ask. It would be much better if the WS had been honest, in the first place, about their sexuality.

 

I understand your point and yes it is true that the NFL does not change the rules in the middle if a game or season.

 

But in a marriage there is no defined game times or seasons.

 

Obviously the time to discuss rule changes is not while your at the bar with some hot chick in your lap or some hot hunk smoozing your wife in the corner.

 

But my point is long term marriages evolve and adapt to changes over time. Nothing stays completely static for 40 years.

[gettingstronger]

Not sure, but I think it would not have provided him the ego boost the affair did, so its apples and oranges-

[dichotomy]

Your wife sounds like she doesn't essentially believe in monogamy, is it not her natural way to be, but she has followed the crowd and got married.

Being openly poly past your twenties is seen as "out there" and not "the norm", but all those naturally poly people just end up cheating anyway is my belief. Some take it to extremes and cheat with lots and lots of people, whilst others are happy with only one or a few APs.

They get married as that is the "right" thing to do in this society, but they always struggle with monogamy.

 

It, may seem a sensible option for such a person to suggest an open marriage. They may see it as a great solution to their need for sexual variety, but for the often strictly monogamous "potential BS" it is a disaster as they realize their marriage was based on deceit. The naturally poly person was only pretending to be monogamous.

When a marriage is primarily founded on exclusivity and monogamy, the suggestion by one spouse to "open" up the marriage is abhorrent, hence the calls for "divorce" from most on here.

 

 

You make some points - but there was no following the crowd for her. I really do trust and believe I was the best man (perhaps using the term Primary from Poly terms), but she did not stop loving or wanting to be with others she had been with. I do think she was a bit tired of the drama, and players, and she also had a child who needed stability.

 

She has claimed many times (and I believe her) she loves me, admires me, respects me, loves our family life. But once or twice during heated arguments she claimed she could love more than one person at a time and it made her love more - and she also enjoyed the sexual variety. This came out well after dDay and our marriage - I had no idea really before hand.

 

After dDay and her cut offs from OM's - I think something sexual in her died. She has been faithful and without contact to all her past lovers for probably 7 years now.

 

I dont think she clearly understands herself and how she is wired. Certainly did not have a big picture of it all - when she fell in love and wanted me to marry her. From time to time even now -she appears very sad and apologetic over our sex life.

 

I think if I was so minded (and I am NOT) she might consider open or swinging. But since I am not wired that way - and our marriage is not strong - it would be a disaster.

 

Its kind of sad in this area (monogamy and passion)- but other wise we have developed a strong functional marriage with similar likes and goals.

Edited November 22, 2016 by dichotomy

[JustJoe]

I understand your point and yes it is true that the NFL does not change the rules in the middle if a game or season.

 

But in a marriage there is no defined game times or seasons.

 

Obviously the time to discuss rule changes is not while your at the bar with some hot chick in your lap or some hot hunk smoozing your wife in the corner.

 

But my point is long term marriages evolve and adapt to changes over time. Nothing stays completely static for 40 years.

I agree that nothing stays the same, but in most marriages, the changes take place within the framework of the marriage. Outside involvement is usually discouraged.

[JustJoe]

You make some points - but there was no following the crowd for her. I really do trust and believe I was the best man (perhaps using the term Primary from Poly terms), but she did not stop loving or wanting to be with others she had been with. I do think she was a bit tired of the drama, and players, and she also had a child who needed stability.

 

She has claimed many times (and I believe her) she loves me, admires me, respects me, loves our family life. But once or twice during heated arguments she claimed she could love more than one person at a time and it made her love more - and she also enjoyed the sexual variety. This came out well after dDay and our marriage - I had no idea really before hand.

 

After dDay and her cut offs from OM's - I think something sexual in her died. She has been faithful and without contact to all her past lovers for probably 7 years now.

 

I dont think she clearly understands herself and how she is wired. Certainly did not have a big picture of it all - when she fell in love and wanted me to marry her. From time to time even now -she appears very sad and apologetic over our sex life.

 

I think if I was so minded (and I am NOT) she might consider open or swinging. But since I am not wired that way - and our marriage is not strong - it would be a disaster.

 

Its kind of sad in this area (monogamy and passion)- but other wise we have developed a strong functional marriage with similar likes and goals.

Your marriage sounds a lot like my parents. After Mom's affair, and they reconciled, it was never the same. They grew old together, but had no spark. It's like what I have read about convicts who get paroled but don't want to leave the prison, where they feel safe. Sad. Edited November 22, 2016 by JustJoe

[oldshirt]

 

she claimed she could love more than one person at a time and it made her love more - .

 

That is the language of the poly people.

 

Conventional wisdom implies that if someone has interest in more than one person, that their love is subdivided into smaller shares like smaller pieces of a pie. Ie the more the pie is divided, the smaller piece than everyone gets.

 

To the poly people, that is reversed. To them adding another to the mix doesn't subdivide the pie into smaller pieces. Instead it creates more more pie.

 

The analogy they use is when you have one child and then you have another child, you do not love the first child any less. You just have more love in the house.

[elaine567]

Monogamy is a principal tenet of the marriage.

The safety and security gained by being someone's "one and only" is the main reason why many get married in the first place.

 

Having children and building a home together requires the couple to invest a large part of themselves, to do that it requires stability.

Few would want to bury themselves in a project that is as fluid as an open marriage.

[JustJoe]

That is the language of the poly people.

 

Conventional wisdom implies that if someone has interest in more than one person, that their love is subdivided into smaller shares like smaller pieces of a pie. Ie the more the pie is divided, the smaller piece than everyone gets.

 

To the poly people, that is reversed. To them adding another to the mix doesn't subdivide the pie into smaller pieces. Instead it creates more more pie.

 

The analogy they use is when you have one child and then you have another child, you do not love the first child any less. You just have more love in the house.

Personally, I think that analogy is full of it. There is a HUGE, ENORMOUS difference between parental love and sexual desire. They are not even based upon the same emotional framework. If somebody approached me and used it to justify their ideas about a relationship, I would be headed doorward.

[dichotomy]

That is the language of the poly people.

 

Conventional wisdom implies that if someone has interest in more than one person, that their love is subdivided into smaller shares like smaller pieces of a pie. Ie the more the pie is divided, the smaller piece than everyone gets.

 

To the poly people, that is reversed. To them adding another to the mix doesn't subdivide the pie into smaller pieces. Instead it creates more more pie.

 

The analogy they use is when you have one child and then you have another child, you do not love the first child any less. You just have more love in the house.

 

 

Wise observations as always. You need to write a book on relationships and marriage.

 

I like to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she was not fully aware of who she was (she was in this new lifestyle late in life for 3-4 years). However she knew enough of our differences (pie analogy) that from our first date she hid it all - and her continued connections until after dDay after we married. Thats the odd thing about my reasons for being here - I had a woman crazy about me - really wanted to marry me - but from day one she kept parts of her in the closet from me.

 

As the purpose of this thread - she never asked me for an open/swinging/poly relationship - which she liked - because from day one (first date) she knew she would loose the chance with me. Never made sense to me - why not just decide to dump the whole lifestyle if I was the one ? why drag it into us - if I was "the one"?

 

I have had a very strange love and sex life.

 

On the other hand - my professional and community life is great.

 

can't have it all.

[elaine567]

As the purpose of this thread - she never asked me for an open/swinging/poly relationship - which she liked - because from day one (first date) she knew she would loose the chance with me. Never made sense to me - why not just decide to dump the whole lifestyle if I was the one ? why drag it into us - if I was "the one"?

.

 

People do that all the time, they see "the one" and they will ignore fundamental character traits, passions and just about anything about themselves, to gain that one person.

Despite huge incompatibilities that they are often well aware of, they charge madly onwards.

I believe, that they think that once they achieve their goal and get him/her onside, then they can change him/her to what they really want/need.

 

Maybe she thought she could change you.

Maybe she thought she could just cheat when she felt the need and you would never need to know.

Maybe she thought she would change and she could be the dutiful wife you needed...

[LoverofWrestling]

If my husband had suggested an open marriage when we were still dating, I would have ended the relationship there and then. If he suggested it now, I'd be divorcing him, no ifs ands or buts. The idea of either of us sleeping with someone else makes me feel sick and I've always been monogamous when I'm in a relationship. I'd also get extremely jealous if we had an open marriage and couldn't actually see myself sleeping with someone else.

[central]

That is the language of the poly people.

 

Conventional wisdom implies that if someone has interest in more than one person, that their love is subdivided into smaller shares like smaller pieces of a pie. Ie the more the pie is divided, the smaller piece than everyone gets.

 

To the poly people, that is reversed. To them adding another to the mix doesn't subdivide the pie into smaller pieces. Instead it creates more more pie.

 

The analogy they use is when you have one child and then you have another child, you do not love the first child any less. You just have more love in the house.

 

We've been in poly relationships, and yes, there is more love. But, there in not more TIME. When you are with one partner, you are not with another, usually. If they have someone else as well, or enjoy having alone time, this probably isn't a problem. However, for many it can be a problem - not necessarily jealousy (although that can be a problem, too), but envy. For me, poly would only work in two situations: a fully equal live-in person, or someone who is seen only occasionally (often termed a secondary), so that there is little time "lost" from a primary relationship.

 

And to answer the original post ... We've never faced infidelity, but given the option of splitting up vs. an alternative relationship, I'd choose the swinger model. (This assumes that the relationship has great value to us both - mine would.) Swinging would be something we'd do together, and would be primarily about the sex, and we both like sex, and sexual variety. However, I think that for most people who are tempted to cheat, it's not about the sex so much as it is about forming a connection, feeling validated, feeling attractive, or feeling appreciated. Sex is one way that can be expressed, so swinging can provide some of that without much risk of a deeper emotional connection. If one starts to form, you move on to a new set of partners.

[OneLov]

Is there really more "love?" Or is it just more dopamine being released?

 

***I make no judgements, question based off watching this show documenting polygyny. This poor bastard looked so worn down because he had to spend one night a week with each wife. It really looked so uninspiring. It's hard enough maintaining one relationship; I couldn't imagine 5 or 6.

Edited November 22, 2016 by OneLov

[BluesPower]

I have thought a lot about this, and the thread about WS's still loving BS's when they cheated.

 

I know that I have always loved my wife no matter what she or I have done. I always loved her. And I think that she is the only woman that I have ever loved completely.

 

I have thought a lot about what OS and dichotomy and a few other have said. And there are a lot of things that I don't understand or wonder about.

 

dichotomy - For me you sound like such an honorable man and I think that is great. You seem comfortable in life and I guess happy. But I don't understand how you (and your wife) could let your sex life die. I know a lot of people do and I can/could never understand it.

 

I also think that your wife totally loves you because I feel the same way about my wife no matter how man women I have been with. I only love her. For me if my wife wanted more or others I would not want to deny her that, I would feel like I was caging a wild bird.

 

As long as our situation was stable and loving and our sex life was good I would be fine with both of us filling any other needs else where.

 

I understand that a lot of people don't feel that way.

 

I understand that some people are just monogamous and that is how they are.

 

For me I don't know what I am. Frankly, for better or worse, I just love women in general. I like everything about them even the stuff most guys don't like.

 

I don't know if I am a poly person, an open R person, or just non-monogamous or what. While I cannot love another woman the way I love my wife, I can like other women an awful lot, but it is different and it is just not as deep somehow.

 

And in my previous years, no matter what I told the other women they fell in love and started to get possessive and wanted me all to their selves. They felt this way knowing that I loved my wife and it did not seem to matter. So along with all my other issues I have ended up hurting a lot of women and I never wanted to do that.

 

So I really have no idea where I am headed. And, I am not sure how to get there, wherever "There" is...

[dichotomy]

.

 

dichotomy - For me you sound like such an honorable man and I think that is great. You seem comfortable in life and I guess happy. But I don't understand how you (and your wife) could let your sex life die. I know a lot of people do and I can/could never understand it.

 

I also think that your wife totally loves you because I feel the same way about my wife no matter how man women I have been with. I only love her. For me if my wife wanted more or others I would not want to deny her that, I would feel like I was caging a wild bird.

 

 

 

It depends on your definition of die. We have sex 1-2 times per month. Although occasionally, like now we have a longer term absence for two months. I think the national average is once a week for long term married people. The quality has been all over the map over the years from stints of her being starfish - to good romps on the living room floor. I also did not just let it die down - I fought hard for it including dragging her to therapists.

 

I think perhaps my wife loves me totally - or perhaps only - now. In the day - I am quite sure she loved OM and other lovers she remained in contact with. I was primary but she had secondaries. She made the choice - not me to enter into a marriage with a strict one love monogamist like me. I also will give her credit where credit is due - to the best of my investigations (I have 95% certainty) she dropped the sex with OM's very early on in our dating. They kept trying to get her back to sex, but she kept it only emotional. Not sure how long it would have remained that way if she did not go NC. I gave her a choice - cut them all off - or we are done. The problem I have faced since then is that while I am her only love now - I feel I am just the remaining piece of a pie she choose -the biggest slice I feel- but never became whole pie for her.

Edited November 22, 2016 by dichotomy

[wmacbride]

Wise observations as always. You need to write a book on relationships and marriage.

 

I like to give her the benefit of the doubt and say she was not fully aware of who she was (she was in this new lifestyle late in life for 3-4 years). However she knew enough of our differences (pie analogy) that from our first date she hid it all - and her continued connections until after dDay after we married. Thats the odd thing about my reasons for being here - I had a woman crazy about me - really wanted to marry me - but from day one she kept parts of her in the closet from me.

 

As the purpose of this thread - she never asked me for an open/swinging/poly relationship - which she liked - because from day one (first date) she knew she would loose the chance with me. Never made sense to me - why not just decide to dump the whole lifestyle if I was the one ? why drag it into us - if I was "the one"?

 

I have had a very strange love and sex life.

 

On the other hand - my professional and community life is great.

 

can't have it all.

 

I'm sorry to say it, but you didn't fall in love with her, you fell in love with who you thought she was, and who she allowed you to see.

 

If she had told you at the outset that she was interested in having sex with other people but still wanted to marry you, would you have said "yes"?

[JohnAdams]

If your spouse asks for an Open Marriage essentially out of the blue, most likely they are either already in an affair or they want to begin an affair. They are simply asking for an open marriage as "permission" to have an affair.

 

 

I would see a question on an open marriage as a glaring red light and say absolutely no. If after saying no they proceed with an affair it is on them.

 

 

If you and your spouse have openly discussed open marriages, swinging, poly, etc. over time and there was mutual interest then all is cool.

 

 

Personally, I have no desire to share my wife, but to each their own.

[Lion Heart]

No need for PMs or anything, I can talk about it openly.

 

I was actually more interested in probing the perspectives of APs and wondered if the APs had been approached about entering into an open marriage/swing/poly arrangement with a couple if they would have considered that. I posed that question to the APs a week or two and got some interesting responses.

 

That got me curious about the BS's and wondered what their responses would have been if they had been given the option of OM/swing/poly vs getting cheated on.

 

I will probably pose the same question in one way or another to the WS's too at some point in the near future.

 

I couldn't seriously consider ANYTHING of the sort.

 

First a WS picking up heck knows what by sleeping around THEN entrusting an AFFAIR PARTNER of which many are so downtrodden and used individuals that THEY sleep with anything too.

 

Ugh how revolting.

 

Imagine THREE people wondering who was "unfaithful" since those things are crawling all over them.

 

Some people have evolved from Ancient Roman times.

Some have not.

 

It must be horrible to "need" this type of sex life to be "happy". Yet those I've known to become involved in craziness like this are never happy nor content with their lives. Even decades later.

 

It's all a sordid world in those lives. Yuck.

 

Lol Lion Heart

[elaine567]

Some people have evolved from Ancient Roman times.

 

In both Greek and Roman culture, people were expected to be in monogamous marriages.

[DKT3]

We discussed an open marriage in great detail at one point. I was more aware of the pitfalls then my wife was, her thinking was our connection and bond was too great to be at risk as long as we set rules and boundaries. My thinking was if we were that strong then we needed no rules, which was my stop sign. Some time later she had an affair, go figure.

 

FYI, while ancient Rome was strictly monogamous in marriage fidelity was not expected by either husband or wife.