Will this be the road to estrangement... [Update Nov 2018]

[Whodatdog]

LWP....

 

Thanks for your post. I felt the power of your post and felt the kindness of your heart through your virtual hug. Thank you. It made me cry.

 

Yes this has been very hard. Rock bottom? I am not sure what that is anymore. As long as my D is involved with that BF of hers and his dysfunctional family I am afraid she will never learn what real responsibility and respect is.

 

I can only continue on in my own life surrounded by the people who love me and like being in my presence. It hurts that total estrangement doesn't seem so far off.

 

I was reading an article where the person was noting the top reasons kids become estranged from their parents as they grow older.

 

The first was communication. He noted that as parents we spend a lot of time shepherding our kids trying to show them how to be and what to do and as parents we look at this as helping them. However as kids get older and this is not translated that way. They see it more as control and not being able to do what it is that they want to do.

 

The second was acceptance. As parents we shouldn't question our kids or second guess their decisions as we need to show that we have trust in the things they do.

 

I would agree with all of this if my own D didn't take for granted all that we did for her and didn't appreciate any of it.

 

Communication works when it goes both ways and each side is willing to listen.

 

I cant accept and support disrespect, abuse and the terrible behavior. No parent should have to suffer at the hands of their own kids but they do.

 

In the beginning when I started to write this post a lot of people thought I had the issue, what is the big deal with smoking...blah blah blah. and here we are... all this time later and nothing has changed. Even accepting the fact that she smoked and asking her to keep it away from my home and vehicles was a problem for her. She wants everything I can give her except my love and a real relationship. I didn't bring her into this world to be treated like this.

 

Perhaps one day when she is staring down at her own D she will realize the love I had for her and how she messed that all up with her selfishness. She will have to live with that and hopefully her own D wont betray her too.

 

You need to understand that article better. It is exactly right. The part that you ended, the bolded, needs addressing.

 

You brought your daughter into the world. She didnt ask to be born. Everything you did for her, you were supposed to do for her. She is your child, and everything you did was because you loved her and thought it was best for her.

 

If she takes it for granted, if she doesnt appreciate it, thats on her. You cant make her say what you think she should say. You did for her because you wanted to. Because you brought her into this world, it was your responsibility. She doesnt have to show appreciation for that. Would be nice if she would, but she doesnt have to.

 

From here on in, you have to make decisions regarding her based on what you want to do. Not that you want appreciation, because you may never get that. Your expectations are unreasonable. She is now old enough to be on her own, let her do that. Stop the yo yo back home and then gone again. Stop giving her the car. Youve' done what you were supposed to do, you raised her the best you could. Now its up to her. The second part of the article, the acceptance, you dont seem to be able to do. You need to work on it more. Stop the controlling, the telling her what to do. Accept her, accept her decisions, as long as they dont impact you negatively. Let her go.

[jnel921]

 

Yes... I get it. But what do I want? To be respected and I am not getting this no matter what I have done. And you are right this yo yo thing has to stop. Its either here or there.

 

I may have to let her go. I want no part of the BF. I don't want him in my car, or home. Not after the disrespect.

 

I helped her and her actions did impact me and this is a problem. Because she did not care enough to consider my feelings.

 

I cant say I agree with our children not having to appreciate. As adults we realize how hard some of our families worked to encourage and help us along our journey as we grow. This is where I guess character kicks in. You are appreciative or entitled. The second of which is not the best way to be. But seems to be the attitude of a lot of our younger adults.

 

I have found that estrangement is happening more and more. Its a shame.

[LivingWaterPlease]

LWP....

 

Thanks for your post. I felt the power of your post and felt the kindness of your heart through your virtual hug. Thank you. It made me cry.

 

Yes this has been very hard. Rock bottom? I am not sure what that is anymore. As long as my D is involved with that BF of hers and his dysfunctional family I am afraid she will never learn what real responsibility and respect is.

 

I can only continue on in my own life surrounded by the people who love me and like being in my presence. It hurts that total estrangement doesn't seem so far off.

 

I was reading an article where the person was noting the top reasons kids become estranged from their parents as they grow older.

 

The first was communication. He noted that as parents we spend a lot of time shepherding our kids trying to show them how to be and what to do and as parents we look at this as helping them. However as kids get older and this is not translated that way. They see it more as control and not being able to do what it is that they want to do.

 

The second was acceptance. As parents we shouldn't question our kids or second guess their decisions as we need to show that we have trust in the things they do.

 

I would agree with all of this if my own D didn't take for granted all that we did for her and didn't appreciate any of it.

 

Communication works when it goes both ways and each side is willing to listen.

 

I cant accept and support disrespect, abuse and the terrible behavior. No parent should have to suffer at the hands of their own kids but they do.

 

In the beginning when I started to write this post a lot of people thought I had the issue, what is the big deal with smoking...blah blah blah. and here we are... all this time later and nothing has changed. Even accepting the fact that she smoked and asking her to keep it away from my home and vehicles was a problem for her. She wants everything I can give her except my love and a real relationship. I didn't bring her into this world to be treated like this.

 

Perhaps one day when she is staring down at her own D she will realize the love I had for her and how she messed that all up with her selfishness. She will have to live with that and hopefully her own D wont betray her too.

 

jnel, I read your post earlier but wanted to take some time to think about it before responding. I'm thankful my post to you gave you a few moments of comfort.

 

I know you (and your H) must feel very much alone in this situation but rest assured what you're going through with you D is more common than most people realize. I know many people who are going through similar things with a child.

 

I have learned, sometimes the hard way, that one of the best ways of keeping the relationship with my children strong (besides praying about it which is huge, it is what fuels my R with my children) is in not offering advice unless asked. Rarely do my children ask and just about every time I talk with one of them I think of something I could tell them that would really help them out.

 

However, were I in anyway financially supporting any one of my children I would also be advising them on some things, and did until they were totally on their own.

 

With your own daughter, I believe you are wise not to allow her to use your car and at this point, I think you're wise not to allow her to live in your house until she can demonstrate over a long period of time a change in attitude.

 

Since your daughter is taking for granted what you've done for her, I would stop doing anything for her. When she begins to show appreciation then I would begin to help her again.

 

I agree with you about not approving with your daughter smoking.

 

All of this said, for me, and I don't mean to preach but it is the most powerful thing that has affected the lives of my children and my relationship with them, is consistent and earnest daily prayers for them. The more detailed my prayers are for them, it seems the more I can see answers to the prayers.

 

However, I know there are things that discourage all of us from praying for our kids, one of them being not seeing results. But, it takes time for God to effect change in lives. And I if you ask God for encouragement to continue praying, He'll send it to you, amazingly!

 

As for the concern you have about your daughter becoming estranged from you, I believe it's quite common for children to become estranged from their parents for a time. I've seen it quite a bit and usually it's temporary. Again, prayer will get you through it and also work on her heart and mind to cause her to desire to restart the R with you.

Edited January 21, 2018 by LivingWaterPlease

[Whodatdog]

You seem to think you can buy respect. You cant. Doing for her, giving her what she wants, will not give you her respect. It seems the one over riding theme of this thread. You want her respect and appreciation. You think you deserve it. Unfortunately its nothing you can control.

 

Until you respect yourself, dont expect it from her.

[jnel921]

You seem to think you can buy respect. You cant. Doing for her, giving her what she wants, will not give you her respect. It seems the one over riding theme of this thread. You want her respect and appreciation. You think you deserve it. Unfortunately its nothing you can control.

 

Until you respect yourself, dont expect it from her.

 

I allowed her back in my home. I haven't bought her anything. I have given her opportunities to try and show something. To try and earn but that she has taken advantage of. How can I not react to that? I cant control that.

 

She cant do whatever she wants. Which is why I take things away and she has a tantrum like a 5 year old.

 

Its like me telling her I am renting her room out to her worst enemy but allowing this person to have full use of all of her belongings and the best part is that I am getting paid and she just better deal with it. Its abuse and disrespect.

 

I think the theme of my thread has always been my concern about her choices, how they have affected her life and the treatment that I have been given despite my good intensions as a mother. Regardless of what I have said or done she still has done whatever she wants to do with great disregard to my own feelings. We felt the best place for her was with us and she wanted to be back home.

 

For this to happen I compromised my integrity and health to help her. She is my D. I don't put up with everything she does. There are consequences.

The biggest problem since she was 12 is that she doesn't believe there should be any for her. She has mental health issues and this just adds to it all. When you lack empathy this is what happens.

 

She needs help. When she accepts that life is difficult and decides something needs to happen differently then maybe things can change.

 

Right now it doesn't matter how she feels or what she says about me. I can't care anymore. Because I know that she has deep anger issues inside to resolve. All I can do is pray for now and leave it in gods hands. I am not chasing her or begging her to be home. She needs to understand her own pain and come to terms about how she will deal with life like we all do.

[jnel921]

LWP.... thank you again for your words.

 

Yes I do pray for my daughter everyday. I even pray to my family who already are in heaven to watch over her and her actions as well.

 

I do believe that God has done some positive things in my life regardless of this situation I do feel blessed.

 

I know that he has to work on her heart for her to see things and feel differently. I want her to be healthy and happy. I wanted a better relationship between us. I am working on myself too. Trying to find better tools to help me with this.

 

I belong to an online forum that is concentrated on these types of issues so I know that I am not alone and there are parents going through worse things than me. I am grateful for being in the position I am in with the hopes that maybe things can change. If it doesn't I can at least say that I tried.

 

Thank you again for keeping us in your prayers. I do appreciate it.

[anika99]

She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder which makes her unable to feel empathy. Unable to control her emotions. So everything she does is without remorse and aimed to hurt.

 

I have tried to talk to her about therapy. The last time she said yes but she is barely here and gets into too many fights where she has left my home for me to even know when to make an appointment for her.

 

I am at my wits end with all of this. Not speaking to her and staying away is the only thing I can do for now. she has already told me she hates being here. She called me unspeakable names. Said she hated me. I ruined her. What else is left?

 

Oh wow. I just came back to read updates on this thread as I haven't looked at it in months and was shocked to see that your daughter was diagnosed with BDP. That really changes everything.

 

There are specific ways to deal with a person with BPD and you are not employing those ways AT ALL.

 

Why are you not researching that particular mental illness and learning how to deal with it? The very first thing you need to do is get yourself a book titled "Stop Walking on Eggshells" It's a book about borderline personality disorder and how to cope with loved ones who have it. It's explains what the person with bpd is feeling and why they act the way they do. It's not too technical and it's easy to read.

 

Everything you are doing right now is the exact wrong wrong way to deal with BPD. More than anything in the world, people with BPD want to feel heard and validated. Telling them that their feelings are wrong, that they are bad, that they are being unreasonable, that their thoughts are stupid, etc, are the exact things that just wind them up more and make them lash out and act crazy.

 

Having being involved for several years with a man with BPD, I can understand first hand how crazy it sounds and feels to try to validate someones feelings and words when everything they say sounds so ridiculous, untrue and selfish. It goes against everything we want to say and do, yet it really does help to diffuse certain situations, bring calm and stop things from escalating even further.

 

However validating someones feelings doesn't mean you cave to their demands or accept unacceptable treatment. It just means that you accept that the person with BPD feels the way they feel and you acknowledge those feelings. You don't argue, defend or verbally attack back. There's a lot more to it then just that but it's too much to try to explain here. I'm surprised that knowing that your daughter has Borderline Personality Disorder, you haven't already thrown yourself into learning all about it to help both of you cope.

 

All that being said, you should also keep a healthy skepticism regarding that diagnosis as for years most people thought only young women had BPD. Why? Well because the hallmarks of BPD is drama and emotional immaturity which many girls and very young women exhibit both. BPD is essentially being severely emotionally stunted, so a lot of young girls who have been diagnosed with BPD were just extremely immature and slow to bloom into adulthood but they eventually caught up and by the time they were around 30 they became pretty much like everyone else which probably means they never had BPD in the first place because BPD is mostly incurable without years of extensive therapy. Nonetheless, at this point, your daughter is experiencing life in the same way a person with BPD experiences life and she should be treated as such regardless if she is going to grow out of this later on.

 

Please get busy doing some research and practicing some new techniques, not only for her but to save your own sanity. You are coming at this all wrong.

[jnel921]

Thank you Anika99. I have read up on the behaviors but no I have not read up on how to handle. I do belong to another forum which is mostly for people with or related to persons with personality disorders.

 

I want to have a better relationship with my D. I am trying to schedule family counseling. Hopefully this will help and will provide us the tools we need to handle her better.

[jnel921]

Trying to get family counseling has been an uphill battle. For whatever reason therapists have either rejected my insurance or are not taking new patients. My BF who is a therapists tells me this often happens because the amount of money vs. the amount of people you are treating is not worth it.

 

I of course became upset with my friend and told her that there are people out there with real problems and if this is what is causing a delay then why be in the profession. I thought counselors wanted to help people. Apparently not. She said she wasn't this way and often times bartered with patients but I am at my wits end.

 

Right now my D is working her FT job at the daycare without issue. However she is still with the BF who influences her behavior and has caused her to continue to lie and do things we don't care for.

 

Right now she is only allowed to use my car to go to work and back. Anything else she does after work or on the weekends she has to arrange herself. I have also asked her to allow me gps access during the time she uses my car to make sure my car isn't anywhere else it shouldn't be.

 

This week she decided to turn it off which caused an argument. I told her to leave my key downstairs where I can see them when she isn't home and she handed me a key where the chip was missing. I became really upset, we got into an argument and she tells me that her BF broke my car keys.

 

However there was no apology, no offers to replace. Only nastiness. She was locked in her room where she was screaming at me threating to come out and hit me. At that point I told her she wasn't using my car and she needs to make other living arrangements.

 

I cant deal with this. I tried. I cant trust her and I cant believe this is who I gave life to.

 

If I could go back in time not sure what I could have changed to prevent all of this. But I wish I could. Not a great way to live right now.

[whichwayisup]

She still hasn't hit her rock bottom to want to change her ways.

 

Love her but protect your heart.

 

Take care of you now and hope some day she'll wake up and life a healthier and honest life again.

[jnel921]

I cant do anything else for her anymore. She left Saturday and hasn't been home since. She called me to argue. Told me it was too bad what happened to my car keys . stuff happens and she isn't sorry for anything.

 

She said she was tired of us and didn't want to come back all she wants is the car. But I said no. She called me a name started cursing and told me that I was the worst parent and that she wouldn't wish me on anyone.

 

I hung up on her and haven't spoken to her since. SMH...

[jnel921]

My D has finally broken up with her abusive BF. He has finally beat her to the point where she filed and order of protection against him.

 

I am hoping that this will be the beginning of her looking at her life and doing things differently.

 

So much has happened in the last couple of months. She has been in and out and I have handled things differently. I believe this has made her finally open her eyes.

 

She is now reaching out to old friends for support. Lets see how long this lasts. She is still smoking and she left her job and got another job that honestly pays less. Its been tough.

[whichwayisup]

Wow, I'm glad she's safe and away from him! How horrible.

 

This could be her rock bottom. Fact that she's reaching out to old friends and you two are on better terms, maybe this time she'll get better.

 

Show her lots of love but let her know she still needs to earn your trust. Is she willing to do counseling on her own and some family counseling too with you?

[LivingWaterPlease]

jnel, so glad to read this positive update!

[jnel921]

So my D dropped the biggest bomb on me. She is pregnant and she wants to keep this baby although she doesn't have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out of.

 

We told her that if she wanted to have a family. It could not be in our home. So she is gone and I am afraid for good this time.

 

Her abusive BF cheated on her and has another girl pregnant on the side. The other girl is due in December. My D knew he was messing around and I believe got pregnant on purpose. She is only 5 weeks. He has told me and her that he doesn't want her or this baby. Then a few days later his tune changed. I asked him if he chose my D. He said no I choose my kid.

 

I feel bad for my D because she will be in a world of heartache and pain and he is robbing her of her future.

 

All I can do now is put it in prayer. Currently I am dealing with other stressful issues with my parents who I am caring for and I just got a notice of an abnormal mammogram.

 

My D hasn't cared about me or what I think or feel for years. I need to focus on my own life because hers is a mess and I just don't want to deal with it.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Just saw this, jnel. I'm so very sorry to read of your daughter's pregnancy and of the heartache and concern the situation is causing you. I think you are wise to give it to prayer and focus on your own life. God is powerful. He had taken me through so much with my own kids. I trust Him completely and you are in the best situation to continue praying daily for your daughter and also for your new grandchild, never stop.

[jnel921]

Thanks. This has been tough. My D called me last week telling me she wanted to leave the BF's apt and come home. But she wanted to keep the baby. I in turn told her that it wasn't possible. The first reason I told her was that if she and her BF decided that keeping it was the best thing to do then they need to figure it out and deal with this on their own. I am not a hotel or atm machine or car service. Secondly I let her know that she has spent many years disrespecting me and my H. Its over. I am not going to allow her to be in my home and let her wreak havoc yet once again. She is almost 21 so its about time she really lived her life.

 

she became very angry and told me that it was my H who didn't want her in my home and I corrected her and told her no...we both don't want you here. So she said "then you are kicking your pregnant daughter out of your house? I pretty much told her that it happens a lot. She shouldn't be surprised.

 

This upset her and she cursed and hung up. I just shook my head. I now need to establish a healthy boundary for myself. I am not going to allow her to alter my future and my plans to bring a child into my home so that I can care for. I know she wont be able to care for it.

 

She had her first doctors appointment Monday and she asked my ex H to take her. I haven't spoken to her all week. But I found out on Tuesday that my exH went to see my parents and the skilled nursing facility where he is rehabbing and decided to spill the beans about my D and the situation. I was very upset and my Dad didn't know.

 

This all just takes me back to the time where my ex H was plotting against me with the child support. Supposedly he told my parents he wanted her to keep the baby. That he would send her money. I'm not sure how as his wife recently told me he worked at McDonalds. Also he told her he was leaving to Florida in September. So not sure how this helps my D. He also offered his wife's car which I found out his wife never agreed to.

 

I sent my ex H 's wife and him a text and told my ex H to stay out of my personal life that after 21 years there is no reason to go see my parents and say anything. If he was a mile from my home he should have made it his business to see our son who just got back from deployment and whom he still hasn't made any time to see. His wife is upset now as he is turning her life upside down making decisions in regards to our D using her money, offering her car and he even asked her to leave with them to Florida. He is just like my D. No regard for anyone. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Yes, jnel, the dynamics between you, your ex, and your daughter all sound as if they are dysfunctional. It seems to me from all you've posted that your son takes after you and your daughter takes after her dad.

 

I doubt there's anything you can do about your ex and your daughter at this point, except that you can love your daughter. I believe you're wise to not allow her to stay with you given her history of disrespect toward you. Her baby would learn from the example of her mother to also disrespect you and there would most likely be no peace in your home.

 

In your place, each time she requests of you that she wants to live with you I would have an exact response prepared beforehand to tell her verbatim. Such as, "You can live with us when you have demonstrated respect for us, over such-and-such a time period, and for the way we want our home to operate. I love you, Daughter."

 

I would say that exact thing to her every single time she requests to live with you. And keep praying for her.

[jnel921]

On Monday my D's BF called me screaming and yelling that he wanted my D out of his mother's apt. I texted her and asked her if she was okay and she said no. I called her, she was crying and told me she wanted to leave however he was hitting her. I told her that I would go to his building once I was off the train and I immediately called the police.

 

She then called my H who called me and did not want to pick her up. She asked that her brother go but the BF made threats against my son and I told him not to go over there as he goes back to his unit on Sunday and I did not want him put in any danger.

 

My H eventually went and got her and she had left by the time the police got there. She was bruised, scratched and told me she was in pain. The guy punched her in the face and her jaw was bruised. She told us she didn't want to be with him and that she wanted "this thing" out of her. Later that evening she went with my son to the police station to file a complaint and order of protection.

 

On Tuesday I called her OB/GYN and told her that my D was now ready to terminate the pregnancy. She of course because of her age had to be on the line and confirmed this. Yesterday they referred us to a place and gave us an appointment for Friday.

 

This morning she woke up changing her tune about having an abortion. I was not happy about this. Right now she quit her job. She is telling me how she has supported herself for the last 2 years and how she can support this baby. I told her she has lived with others including me for the past 2 years and that I was not going to allow her to live in my home if she is insisting on bringing a child into the world to deal with and suffer all of her pain.

 

My son was also upset and told me she felt she had mental issues. I honestly feel she thinks she can manipulate everyone with her decisions. She said her dad offered to take her to Florida. So I told her if he is supporting this then she needs to go live with him and they need to figure this out.

 

She became upset because she said I don't support her. I told her I don't care what you do. But it should not involve me. I shouldn't have to provide for your children. If you want kids you need to have something for them.

 

She is out of her mind and out of control. I am not sure what else to do. I don't want to call her dad. But if she doesn't go to that appointment on Friday she is going to mess up her life more than it already is.

 

She has made one bad choice after the other. I am so over it. Not sure what to do next.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I'm so sorry to read this update, jnel. I am dealing with as chaotic (but different) a situation in my own family that has caused our entire family immense pain. We continue to pray daily and what is happening is that we can see where God is working to bring the situation out as best as possible. It will be a lifelong prayer vigil but the children involved have a much better chance this way.

 

Continue to pray about this daily. As you do, it invites God to fulfill His strategy through events in the person's life each day.

 

I know that you mentioned you pray about it, so the only reason I continue to encourage you in your prayer vigil is because sometimes people get discouraged and discontinue praying. Don't get discouraged with your prayer vigil!

 

You are doing all you can do.

 

Have you heard anyone say, "All I can do is pray about it." That's like saying, "The only place a fish has to swim in is the ocean!"

[jnel921]

Last week after the last fight with her now Ex BF she decided she did not want to continue with the pregnancy. She went with her brother and his GF. I decided to go when the procedure was over and I was the first person she saw.

 

She was happy I was there. I gave her a hug. Many mixed emotions I had. But I know that this was probably for the best. My D was a wreck and couldn't focus. I by no means was going to dedicate whatever life I have left to raising more kids.

 

She is at home and stable for now. She has a job interview tomorrow and is trying to get herself together and eventually go back to school. Let see if it happens. Nothing stays calm in my home for very long.

[jnel921]

For my D to lie, disrespect and contribute nothing to my household. Turns out the ex BF got arrested for beating his baby momma. His mother felt the need to call my D to go the police station and support her. When she lied to me and did this I went off.

 

Now her tune is changing about him. He doesn't want to be with her or this baby. She is going to keep talking to this abuser and I have issue with that. She left my house on Monday and has not been back. I don't know where she is but she says she will be home but is threatening me.

 

She says if I don't put her in school she is going to kill herself. She told me I didn't love her. She doesn't want to be here. The girl is out of control now. She is really upsetting me.

[Timshel]

Jnel921, as a parent, I feel really badly for you. This is a heart wrenching situation for you as a mom who clearly is struggling to do what is best for your daughter.

 

 

I would suggest that a stipulation be made that living with you will only occur if she agrees to both a full physical exam and psychological evaluation by a psychologist/psychiatrist. Your daughter does need help, yet she is not a minor and must both consent and follow through with receiving it from professionals.

 

 

I wish you the best and try not to beat yourself up, I know that is difficult. Your hands are tied and truly the best way to help her is to maintain strong boundaries. So sorry that you are going through this.

[JuneL]

Have you tried family counseling for the two of you? I understand you’re very frustrated and upset about the whole situation and you’ve tried many times to give her chance. But it’s not unlikely that your daughter may feel not loved by you.

 

Has she finished high school? What kind of school does she intend to go back to? In principle, she can enroll in a low-cost community college and work part/full time to finish school or even take out a small school loan. Plenty of people do that without getting a penny from family.

[jnel921]

Hi JuneL. I think I have documented a lot of what my D who is now turning 21 next month has and hasn't done.

 

The expectation is that she go to esthetics school again next month. We haven't enrolled her yet, but that is the plan. She is a little calmer since the break up with the BF. However she still tells a lot of lies to be able to go out and hang with people we don't care for to smoke.

 

She has a part time job now. She just started this week. Lets see how long this lasts. She doesn't want to do counseling although I am willing. I will bring it up to her. Lets see.