Will this be the road to estrangement... [Update Nov 2018]

[jnel921]

Okay, well in that case, your daughter reminds me a lot of my youngest little brother. My oldest little brother and myself were obedient children for the most part. My stepfather (my little brothers' biological father) was horribly strict and punitive so me and the older of my two brothers knew to toe the line but it was amazing to watch my youngest brother totally defy my parents time and time again. He was constantly being punished. First it was spankings every single day then as he got older it was being grounded, losing privileges and items. Nothing seemed to phase him or get through to him. By the time he was a teen my mom and stepfather were divorced and I think some of the stress caused by my brother contributed to their marital discord.

 

By the time my brother was sixteen he had been kicked out by my mom, then taken in and kicked out by his father. Then he went through everyone else available. I was sixteen years older than him and I tried to take him in for awhile myself. I ended up kicking him out too and I felt horrible guilt over it but I had my own kids and he just brought way too much drama. Not only would he not go to school or keep a job, he had a nasty temper. Huge dramatic fights would erupt whenever he was around and everyone would just let out a sigh of relief when he would leave. It was so frustrating because no matter how much someone tried to help him it was never enough in his eyes, and it never helped. This continued on throughout his twenties. My own sons were grown up and independent while my little brother was still bouncing around, chronically unemployed and homeless. He's in his mid thirties now and last I heard he was finally doing better. He doesn't talk to any of us because as each of us stopped trying to rescue him, he washed his hands of us. Once he couldn't get anymore out of us we became useless to him.

 

I still feel guilt over him but I've also come to believe that he is disordered in some way. I don't think he's ever loved anyone. Even my mother who loved him the most and tried the hardest became useless to him when she went into assisted living and he could no longer use her for anything. She hasn't heard from him or seen him in years.

 

Sorry for the grim story. I don't mean to imply that your daughter is as hopeless and as lost as my brother, I just meant to convey that I can understand how a kid can just be impossible no matter how hard you have tried to do the right thing. Hopefully your daughter will find her way out of this soon.

 

Thanks Anika,

 

Unfortunately I believe I may have the same kind of child on my hands. I too feel taken advantage of and not shown sincere love. A mother loves her kids no matter what but I have boundaries and she has crossed them.

 

I called the director today and she told me my daughter had to call in and send a note personally to officially withdraw from school. It took about 3 hours and a threat of not giving her belongings before she did this. Not a nice time today. Also there is a kit that she needs to return so she will have to go with me Thursday when we go over the reimbursement.

 

I packed her room already but have not delivered anything yet. We will send this tomorrow. After this she will not have anything here.

 

Oppositional defiance disorder has been a real stressor for me. Her continued pot use and nastiness makes it worse. She believes she does nothing wrong. She is mad at the world.

 

I am just really sad. I know one day my daughter would leave my home, but never I thought like this.

[turnera]

You're doing the right thing. It seems odd, but this is the only thing that will eventually help her. Just may not be for awhile.

[jnel921]

Yesterday she picked up most of her things but not all. Tomorrow we meet to go the school to hand in supplies and talk about the tuition reimbursement.

All disappointing. Today my son passed the military exam and gets sworn in tomorrow. He is leaving February 20th. This means my husband and I would officially be alone. I am going to let my daughter know about her brother and how proud I am of him and his perseverance. I will leave it at that.

 

I feel sad about my son but happy about his transition. My daughter, I just feel sad, hurt and very upset.

 

She called me today and I really didn't talk long. She was crying because the person she gave her guinea pig to I believe cant care for it and she said she wanted to take it to a zoo. This is how immature I realized she was.

I told her if she couldn't take it back to a pet shop then find out from them who rescues them. I told her I had a meeting and hung up.

 

Afterwards I was more pissed that she cried over a guinea pig and not the loss of her family. smh.

[Standard-Fare]

I'm curious how you've handled the treatment of her oppositional defiance disorder. From what I understand, this warrants regular therapy —*did your daughter have that throughout her adolescence? Does she have that now? And have any medications been tried?

 

I'm certainly no expert on ODD, but I have a good friend whose kid has it. It's definitely messy. However, the kid is in therapy twice a week, gets special counseling at his school, and has seen some improvement.

 

It sounds like your daughter is going untreated (at least recently), is self-medicating herself the wrong ways, and displaying destructive behavior.

 

The mental health issue really needs to come first here. The only help you should offer her should be toward her treatment. You could explore a live-in residential program to focus on her ODD — from a quick Google search I see there's many options. Maybe some focus on the drug addiction angle as well.

 

Yes, sounds $$$, and I'm sure your daughter would fight it, but if there's a way to make that happen it could be the right path.

[jnel921]

I'm curious how you've handled the treatment of her oppositional defiance disorder. From what I understand, this warrants regular therapy —*did your daughter have that throughout her adolescence? Does she have that now? And have any medications been tried?

 

I'm certainly no expert on ODD, but I have a good friend whose kid has it. It's definitely messy. However, the kid is in therapy twice a week, gets special counseling at his school, and has seen some improvement.

 

It sounds like your daughter is going untreated (at least recently), is self-medicating herself the wrong ways, and displaying destructive behavior.

 

The mental health issue really needs to come first here. The only help you should offer her should be toward her treatment. You could explore a live-in residential program to focus on her ODD — from a quick Google search I see there's many options. Maybe some focus on the drug addiction angle as well.

 

Yes, sounds $$$, and I'm sure your daughter would fight it, but if there's a way to make that happen it could be the right path.

 

Thanks SF,

 

I saw my daughter on Thursday. We went to the school to withdraw her and recoup the tuition. This was after her cancelling that morning, them telling me in the afternoon that she wasn't able to go and then I let her have it.

 

It turned out that she is doing the same things where she is staying and her friends mom is not very happy with her leaving and not coming back. I don't think she has started working so there has not been any real contribution there except for helping with chores. Her friends brother has been texting her old phone which i have saying that the mom will kick her out if she keeps this up. I never let him know that it wasn't her phone. It was a good way for me to stay in the know.

 

Anyway ultimately she went back and they asked her to go food shopping with them. This is when I told her I was picking her up to go to the school. I told her that we made these plans on Monday and she needed to keep them as this is about the money I need to get back. So i picked her up and she looked terrible. She just wasn't herself, She looked as if she was hung over from the night prior.

 

I was trying to talk to her in the car. but she kept looking at her phone. I thought maybe saying something may spark an emotion. But it didn't. We got to the school took care of everything and the director mentioned how disappointed she was as my daughter was her best student.

 

when we left I told her how it hurt me that we were doing this and she just said that she had plans. later on she demanded that I buy her a meal for having her go to the school and i said no. She was also nasty in the car telling me not to call her BF asking about her because she told him not to speak to me. She said all you do is vent. She called me dumb for driving down a certain street, it was just very upsetting to me and I screamed at her in the car asking her wtf was her issue and who did she think she was talking to. You see during these times she must be high, because who acts and talks like that.

 

She should feel bad that she wasted my time, energy and money. Demanding meals? Get out of here.

 

However I did mention that she needed to see a mental health therapist again. I believe someone needs to assess what her issues are now. In the past the 2 people who were seeing her couldn't handle her behavior themselves, which is why they stopped treating her. Its a shame that some therapists are this way. Honestly it makes me feel hopeless when it comes to her.

 

For whatever reason she doesn't believe she needs to change. We all need to change to accommodate her. Just doesn't work that way and I have had enough.

 

Its been hard and I have been sad, but what else can I do.

[turnera]

Mission #1: Take the emotion out of it. Telling her she hurt you? Gave her power.

 

Stop it.

[jnel921]

Mission #1: Take the emotion out of it. Telling her she hurt you? Gave her power.

 

Stop it.

 

I beleive that may be the case. It's been almost 2 weeks tomorrow and she has not felt the need to explain herself, apologize or acknowledge anything.

 

What I have done is let her know I love her, asked her to spend Christmas morning at our home since my son is leaving soon. I did mention her having to get all of her things out of my home by the end of February.

 

She has tried asking for favors, wanting to go through her things at home. But I have said no. I am trying to establish healthy boundaries and if the conversation or texts aren't pleasant I hang up or ignore it.

 

From what I know she is messing up where she is staying and the mother is not happy with her coming and going as she pleases. I beleive they have warned her.

 

I would like to think she misses us, her room, privacy, the car and school. But looks like the party life is what is important right now.

 

It will be interesting to see how Sunday goes. Hopefully without any drama.

[jnel921]

She has contacted me only 2 times to ask for things that I didn't provide and face timed me yesterday to give me a proposition.

 

She asked if she could have the car I originally bought with the intention of her using it for school and work if she pays the car note and insurance.

 

I immediately said no. I have heard that she may be selling drugs as she may be posting this on her snap chat. She got upset and said she was purchasing a car today. $3,200. Which of course immediately upset me.

 

How did it take me years to save my deposit and you less than 2 weeks? She had a stupid look on her face. Never said where the money came from only that she busted her butt to make it. I told her there is more to a car purchase than just the purchase and the way she makes her money may land her in prison and not to call me when she is there.

 

She was cursing about getting her belongings and I hung up. It just reminds me of what another poster said on my last thread about her brother. I feel we are useless to her unless we can provide.

 

This has been such a hurtful experience. I wouldn't want to wish this on anyone.

[amaysngrace]

Maybe she's working as a waitress and making good tips or working two or three jobs.

 

It's very possible to make money if you work hard for it and everybody is hiring right now.

[UpwardForward]

If you don't need the car, perhaps you could have let her use it.

 

My son is giving my grandson one of his cars next year when he turns 16 and gets his license.

 

I have thought grandson is too young and should be a wage-earner, as my parents wouldn't let me have a car before I started working a job.

 

My sons father however - provided them with a car when they were in high school.

 

I'm sorry this has been a hurtful experience for you. Some kids just can't wait to get out of the house. I was one of them.

Edited December 22, 2016 by UpwardForward

[hotgurl]

If you don't need the car, perhaps you could have let her use it.

 

My son is giving my grandson one of his cars next year when he turns 16 and gets his license.

 

I have thought grandson is too young and should be a wage-earner, as my parents wouldn't let me have a car before I started working a job.

 

My sons father however - provided them with a car when they were in high school.

 

I'm sorry this has been a hurtful experience for you. Some kids just can't wait to get out of the house. I was one of them.

 

Did you read the op original post. Her daughter was using drugs while driving the car. She had drug paraphernalia in the car.

[UpwardForward]

Did you read the op original post. Her daughter was using drugs while driving the car. She had drug paraphernalia in the car.

 

No. I didn't receive this. Only that OP has heard daughter may be selling drugs.

[jnel921]

My daughter has been smoking Pot since HS. The drug has affected everything in life and has made her make terrible choices. At first we denied paying for her education until she stopped and then we went ahead and paid and got her a car too. 4 days after the start of school she disappeared with the car overnight. Came back high the next day and decided to leave again this time for good. She abandoned her education, the car and did not care about our sacrifices. Why should I help her?

[UpwardForward]

My daughter has been smoking Pot since HS. The drug has affected everything in life and has made her make terrible choices. At first we denied paying for her education until she stopped and then we went ahead and paid and got her a car too. 4 days after the start of school she disappeared with the car overnight. Came back high the next day and decided to leave again this time for good. She abandoned her education, the car and did not care about our sacrifices. Why should I help her?

 

It's an uphill battle.

 

IMO, if a kid wants something, they're going to get it regardless. And it seems practically everyone needs a car, to make life easier.

 

She may be in bondage to others with the financing of the vehicle she just purchased.

[ChillChik]

My daughter has been smoking Pot since HS. The drug has affected everything in life and has made her make terrible choices. At first we denied paying for her education until she stopped and then we went ahead and paid and got her a car too. 4 days after the start of school she disappeared with the car overnight. Came back high the next day and decided to leave again this time for good. She abandoned her education, the car and did not care about our sacrifices. Why should I help her?

 

I think you're doing the right thing and I can't even imagine how tough it would be. I would just keep reinforcing with her that you aren't willing to fund her bad choices but that if she's interested in going to school, getting a real job, etc that you'd be glad to help her.

 

I definitely wouldn't do anything to enable her on her current path. The more difficult it gets for her to continue, the more likely she'll be to make a different decision.

 

Hang in there and good luck!

[jnel921]

I am struggling to get through the holidays. My emotions have been high since she has been gone. I just feel a tremendous sense of loss. I don't feel as hopeful anymore.

 

She is uncaring and cold. I didn't make her this way. Wish it was different.

[Nowty V]

She is at that age where she is naturally pulling away from her parents and establishing her 'self'

 

Spanner in the works is her peer group. Drugs are expensive, no doubt there are foolish males supplying her.

 

I had a friend whose Son went off the rails on Heroin at the same age. Friend put a coach bolt and chain into the kitchen floor and chained him there with a bucket to pee in. Son couldn't get out the house to buy drugs.

 

Totally against the sons human rights but 20 yrs down the line the son is very much alive and grateful for his Dads actions.

 

Try and take care of you so any stress doesn't cause you health problems.

[whichwayisup]

I am struggling to get through the holidays. My emotions have been high since she has been gone. I just feel a tremendous sense of loss. I don't feel as hopeful anymore.

 

She is uncaring and cold. I didn't make her this way. Wish it was different.

 

I'm sorry that you're going through this. I wish too that she never touched pot and went down that road.

 

She has to hit rock bottom before she reaches out for help. I hope some day soon that happens so she can go to rehab and begin to get her life back.

[amaysngrace]

I never heard of anyone doing rehab for pot. It isn't even addictive the same way that alcohol or even tabacco are AFAIK.

 

It seems like a pointless battle to lose an adult child over if you ask me.

 

I hope you can work things out OP. Life is too short....

[jnel921]

I'm sorry that you're going through this. I wish too that she never touched pot and went down that road.

 

She has to hit rock bottom before she reaches out for help. I hope some day soon that happens so she can go to rehab and begin to get her life back.

 

Thanks, I wish I could say my Christmas was great but it wasn't. She came over that morning. Had a few instances where she was very upset. Made it clear she did not want to talk about herself or her situation. Then she had the nerve to be upset because she was expecting a better gift. Meanwhile she didn't bring any.

 

She needed to leave early and did not want to see her dad because she was headed to a Hotel with her friends to celebrate Christmas. I am guessing this partying had more to do with alcohol and drugs.

 

It was apparent that someone is keeping her hair styled, nails done and in new clothes. But she wont say what she is doing. She now lives in an apt. with 2 girls she's never mentioned. She says the apt. is paid for by one of the girls fathers. She never made clear what the living arrangement was.

 

She mentioned doing a T-Mobile training on 1/9 for 2 weeks. But I don't believe her.

 

She went through her things I have in the basement and grabbed some things. My son who took her back to her apt. said he spoke to her but is not convinced she misses home or ever wants to come back.

 

This was upsetting. Not at all what I wanted to hear. To date my conversations are limited with my daughter. As soon as I ask what is she up to I don't hear from her again.

 

Maybe its time for me to turn myself off too.

[Popsicle]

This is such a hurtful thing to go through as a parent and my thoughts and prayers are with you, jnel.

[jnel921]

I never heard of anyone doing rehab for pot. It isn't even addictive the same way that alcohol or even tabacco are AFAIK.

 

It seems like a pointless battle to lose an adult child over if you ask me.

 

I hope you can work things out OP. Life is too short....

 

When she went to rehab she was still in HS. Suspended as she got caught smoking on the grounds and faced possible expulsion. Showing the school district that she was trying to be clean was the only way from her not having to go to an alternative HS.

 

It was weekly meetings with other people in her age group.

 

When she went a few weeks ago. I am guessing she needed someone to police her usage. I don't believe she ever wanted to stop. She knew smoking pot was the deal breaker on having the car full time. Pot is illegal here in NY so I was not going to let her drive especially when I have seen her behavior while she is high.

 

Drinking is legal and unfortunately if I suspected my daughter was a drunk she wouldn't get the car keys either. Why would I want to risk other peoples lives? So keeping a car away from someone who can hurt someone is not pointless to me. My daughter has gotten into an accident in May in my car. I believe she was high at the time. Did not want police involved and did not tell me or contact my insurance while I was away.

 

I got a phone call from an older woman saying my daughter agreed to a set amount of money to pay her for her damages yet she had no money and never said a word to me. I came back to see she hurt the front of my car. If she was a clear thinking person maybe that wouldn't have happened.

 

My daughter has real issues. I hope one day down the road she realizes what is good for her. Because right now the friends she keeps aren't doing anything but stopping her from growing or being responsible. Someone out there is still paying for her. I wanted her to finish school so she could pay for herself. But she has a problem with my rules. Too many restrictions according to her.

[jnel921]

This is such a hurtful thing to go through as a parent and my thoughts and prayers are with you, jnel.

 

Thanks Popsicle, I pray everyday too. First and foremost for her safety. I pray that she realizes what she is really surrounded by and to one day feel remorse over the way she has hurt us.

 

I think that may be a tall order for now. But until then I will always love on her but maintain a healthy boundary.

[Popsicle]

I want to add, jnel, that you are you doing the right thing. My ex-bf had a drinking problem. He is 42 and it started when he was 20. His mother enabled and helped him during his life whenever anything got a little tough. She couldn't stand to see him suffer and made life easy for him, out of habit. She still does this to this day and that is part of why, at 42, he is still an alcoholic. If she had been less enabling when he was younger, he would have learned that over-doing drugs/alcohol doesn't pay and gotten further with the normal life skills that he needed to learn at the right time. Again, he's 42 and...not right. Which she hates, but there is too much habit developed there at this point for both of them.

 

So, yes, you are right to do what you are doing now even though it is hard.

[Popsicle]

Thanks Popsicle, I pray everyday too. First and foremost for her safety. I pray that she realizes what she is really surrounded by and to one day feel remorse over the way she has hurt us.

 

I think that may be a tall order for now. But until then I will always love on her but maintain a healthy boundary.

 

I hope she does too. I really do. She is young, she has hope.

 

I have heard the words you say above from my ex-bf's mother. She worried so much and expressed it to me. I felt so bad for her. But she could not control herself and her worrying drove her to enable him, which then helped to continue the cycle.

 

I know it must be so hard. I'm so sorry. You don't deserve this.