Will this be the road to estrangement... [Update Nov 2018]

[Globug]

Breaks my heart you are still in the cycle. She does not need to be back under your roof until there has been a good 6 months to a year of healthy interaction between the two of you where she does not throw fits, blame, or demand.

 

 

Everything leading up to her moving back in with you was the same behavior, the only things she did to get back in your house was say ok to your rules which is nothing then lip service. Then she 100% back tracked as soon as she was back in because nothing inside of her has changed. There is an old song I used to sing as a child at church that went like this:

 

 

"Oh your walk talks, and your talk talks, but your walk talks more then your talk talks so when you walk and you talk remember your walk, talks the loudest.

 

 

Her walk has not changed. Her actions has not changed. Let her go and reclaim your peace.

[Globug]

Does your ex CS supposed to continue past age of 18?

 

 

My DH has the same stance of your ex. He will not give any money to the ex after SS turned 18 and graduated. We help SS directly and she cannot take us to court for that.

[jnel921]

Thanks Globug.

 

I was successful in speaking to my ex H and he is willing to collaborate with me to help our D with her future. He now says he will not give her money directly as she has been lying about what it is for. Yes in NY CS is up to the age of 21 and includes college costs.

 

We compared stories and my D told him I am asking for $80 a week as opposed to $30. Says she has all kinds of background checks for jobs to pay for and he told me he has been sending her money and she in turn has told me he hasn't.

 

I don't know where the money he sends her is going but I know its not me and towards her future. He agreed to send me money directly to save for school and we will be speaking to her next weekend.

 

You are right Globug. I need to feel some time where it is a healthier and more trusting relationship.

 

This week she gave me pushback again about the $30. I simply told her if she couldn't give me the money then there will not be a car. The purpose of the car was to help her gain more work. Which she has but if her intention is not to help me then there will be no car period. I can always return this to the dealer.

 

I told her she needed to grow up and realize life isn't free. Someone is paying for the car she drives, the hot water she bathes in the room in which she sleeps, food she eats, etc.. Its sad that I am explaining this to a 20 year old that swears she is 14. But I reminded her that when she walks out of my home she wants to act like an adult. Sleep over her BF's and stay out late.

 

I feel like she is feeling the seriousness of my words and tone. I don't argue back with her now. I say my piece and keep it moving and remind her that she can leave at any time. My life will not be affected. I told her she needed to do a better job of managing her work cases, and managing her money. If she doesn't have any then that is her issue.

 

I may not have the same peace but I will not let her take advantage of me and wont put up with nonsense.

[jnel921]

My D said she was starting a new job today at a daycare. I decided to plant my extra phone in the car to track her moves.

 

Guess what No job. Alot of hanging out and driving her BF all over Northern Westchester in my car. Then they had lunch and went back to his mother's where she will stay until 6 then come home to BS me.

 

Tell me.if I am wrong to take the car away for good. I'm done.

[whichwayisup]

My D said she was starting a new job today at a daycare. I decided to plant my extra phone in the car to track her moves.

 

Guess what No job. Alot of hanging out and driving her BF all over Northern Westchester in my car. Then they had lunch and went back to his mother's where she will stay until 6 then come home to BS me.

 

Tell me.if I am wrong to take the car away for good. I'm done.

 

This is not good news. I was really hoping she had woken up a bit and put effort into changing and making things better. I'm so sorry that this isn't working out right now. (I'm optimistic when she hits rock bottom, I mean really rock bottom she'll want to change for the better and get help) She has continued to lie to you yet pretend all is 'good' with her. It's manipulative and taking advantage of yet another chance you've given her.

 

You are not wrong taking the car from her. Don't explain how you know what she's been doing. (though you could mention the car mileage)

 

She's told many lies and has been a good actress (enough that you started believing her a bit again) and there are consequences to what she's done.

[Whodatdog]

My D said she was starting a new job today at a daycare. I decided to plant my extra phone in the car to track her moves.

 

Guess what No job. Alot of hanging out and driving her BF all over Northern Westchester in my car. Then they had lunch and went back to his mother's where she will stay until 6 then come home to BS me.

 

Tell me.if I am wrong to take the car away for good. I'm done.

 

What do you think?

[jnel921]

I know.i.am right...but she won't admit when she is wrong.

 

This morning she got up and demanded I drive her to the boyfriends. I said no and I told her she should be asking my forgiveness. Not a ride.

 

She started.getting upset and.kept telling me to shut up. Then she grabbed her bag and jacket and started walking out the door. She she got to the doorway she called me names and left.

 

She didn't come back home and I am beside.myself with the pain and hurt that she causes me. I don't care to do anything else. I am done.

 

She is broken. I.dont want to be her mother.

Edited December 16, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

[whichwayisup]

I know.i.am right...but she won't admit when she is wrong.

 

This morning she got up and demanded I drive her to the boyfriends. I said no and I told her she should be asking my forgiveness. Not a ride.

 

She started.getting upset and.kept telling me to shut up. Then she grabbed her bag and jacket and started walking out the door. She she got to the doorway she called me names and left.

 

She didn't come back home and I am beside.myself with the pain and hurt that she causes me. I don't care to do anything else. I am done.

 

She is broken. I.dont want to be her mother.

 

I'm sorry for your pain.

 

I don't know what else to say except let her go...Get some counseling in to help you process this all and that it doesn't eat you up.

 

She clearly has issues that she's not ready to face or deal with. She must know her latest hurtful words to you were damaging, enough to know she isn't welcome back in the house.

 

You have a kind and open heart. It's just time to put the walls up with her for a long time and hope that (if) there's a time where she proves to you she can be trustworthy again, that you two can talk. Her days of living with you aren't working and it's only causing you pain and strife.

Edited December 16, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jnel921]

Thanks Everyone.

 

I have to watch how I explain my daughter's behavior and words here.

 

She is home but she has made it clear that the source of her anger is me. She doesn't want to really talk about anything. She wants to stay in her room. She starts her new job tomorrow. Hopefully working with children will change her in some way too.

 

Right now she is in a rug sweeping stage that has me bothered. I told her that If she is upset about anything it doesn't giver her the right to speak to me in whatever tone she feels. I told her there would be consequences for everything she puts me through.

 

The holidays are coming up and I am on the fence about what exactly I want to do. Its not going to be the same without my some here. I just feel there will be a lot of phoniness all around.

 

I want to be in a happy place when it comes to her. Just don't know if that is ever going to happen.

[MuddyFootprints]

I'm not a fan of how either of you are coexisting, but I have to blame it on you.

 

"Right now she is in a rug sweeping stage that has me bothered. I told her that If she is upset about anything it doesn't giver her the right to speak to me in whatever tone she feels. I told her there would be consequences for everything she puts me through."

 

How does this make any sense? I truly don't understand.

 

Discussions get emotional for both mom and child. Let her get emotional. Let yourself become emotional. Why do you have to be an authority figure? Why can't you just be a mom? When is the last time you hugged your daughter?

[jnel921]

I'm not a fan of how either of you are coexisting, but I have to blame it on you.

 

 

 

Discussions get emotional for both mom and child. Let her get emotional. Let yourself become emotional. Why do you have to be an authority figure? Why can't you just be a mom? When is the last time you hugged your daughter?

 

Hi MuddyFootprints...I agree. I don't believe I have handled this in the best way at times. I was way too caught up in my emotions at one point but I believe this is why she got over on me so much.

 

When I became colder I think she sensed that I wasn't the same person she could take advantage of and this has made her even more upset and uncooperative. Now when she gets emotional she will threaten to hurt me or even kill herself. I lock my bedroom door at night because I don't trust her. I admit all of this has made me cold towards her. Its hard to feel something for someone who has said they don't care about you and have wished you death.

 

The last time I hugged her was when she was crying over her BF over a big fight they had and when she came here for my help . This was in the summer. It seems that this is the only times she sheds any tears, only for him. Even after that she flipped out and was cursing me.

 

There is no reasoning with her. She is completely irrational. I am convinced that the pot use has damaged the part of her brain that allows her to understand the impact of what she does and how it affects others.

 

Last week I told her that when I feel things are going well with someone and I feel happy that is the place I like to be in. That with her I feel anger and that she is bothered 95% of the time when she is around me.

 

She says I do upset her and that we cant talk. But the truth is as soon as I start a conversation she doesn't want to listen. Even if it has to do concerns I have or rules that she has broken. She just wants to dismiss me and she is honestly creating a worse situation between us.

 

I pray to god, my family and friends in heaven to give me strength and to help guide her. It hasn't been easy and each year seems to top the last. She turns 21 next year. If she is not willing to grow up and change her life then I cant help her.

[jnel921]

First I want to wish everyone here a happy holiday as we are all going through different trials and tribulations with our families. I pray that we all find peace in the new year.

 

Our day started with peace. Breakfast together and then we opened gifts. My H wrote a moving letter to my D letting her know that he understood how things were difficult and wanted to work on making next year better.

 

She read the note and cried. Kissed and hugged us both.

 

Later she went to see the BF's family and him before he went to work at 3:30pm. At about 7:00pm she wanted to use my car because he needed a ride from work home and I said no. This of course created another argument.

 

Why cant she get that if her BF doesn't care for us why should I allow her to wear and tear my car to do favors for him? I don't owe him anything. She mentioned what will I do if they ever marry. That I would have to accept him as my son in-law. I told her I would however I don't have to do anything for him or her for that matter. Once she marries she is his issue.

 

I am not going to change my mind about this. She will always be upset and threaten that she will not go to school. I am tired of her telling me about what it is her BF needs and wants.

 

I don't know what else to say to her so that this can stop. Seems like no is never the right answer for her.

[murphomatic]

She is entitled and spoiled, and believes the world (facilitated by others) owes her a living. Of course, whenever someone refuses something she feels is her entitled right, she gets angry about it. How dare they deny her! Perhaps someday she will discover that the world is truly a cold place, filled with people who really don't give two *****s about who she is and what she wants? But the reality is that there is a good chance she may never discover this. She may go through her life feeling more and more increasingly entitled, and angry at the world for not delivering to her expectations....continually blaming others and the related circumstances for her shortcomings.

 

As others have said in this thread, the only real chance for her to figure any of this out is to sincerely hit rock-effing-bottom. And from the sounds of how she runs her life, that rock bottom is going to be seriously below-sea-level. I'm sorry to say this, but I fear that the real heart-wrenching experiences have yet to manifest themselves; that this is only the beginning.

 

Based on what I've read, it's pretty clear that you are pretty patient and give her chance after chance after chance. So much so that she banks on the fact that you will always give her another chance. I believe she is still a minor, correct? Once she is 18, your well of chances is going to have to dry up a bit along with your tears. I suspect that when you deny her some privilege, and she lashes out at you with disrespect and name-calling, she is letting your emotional response fuel her narcissism (since she's not getting it fueled by whatever privilege she was hoping you would simply grant to her because she's the greatest, most amazing human ever). The last few pages of this thread sound like you're making progress in limiting your emotional response and willingness to engage in arguments. That's good - keep doing exactly that.

 

I've been reading this thread for some time, and it simultaneously breaks my heart and scares the crap out of me. I have a 13y/o step daughter who has some similar entitlement issues and I'm just hoping to god that my wife and I can do enough between now and her late teen years to prevent her from going completely off the narcissist deep-end (her bio-dad is a textbook narcissist, and I worry that she packs some similar personality traits in genes alone).

 

Wishing you the best of luck - I really do hope that things change for the better ... but as the old adage goes, it's often darkest right before the dawn.

[jnel921]

Thanks Murphomatic,

 

Yes she feels very entitled. Its bizarre.

 

We recently had a big argument because she thought it was okay to lend my car to her BF whom we don't know and partially responsible for her attitude.

 

Not only was he driving my car, he was smoking pot in in and left a big blunt on the dashboard. I flipped on her and she in turn had nasty words and was trying to justify those actions. There is no excuse for handing my car keys to a stranger.

 

She is irresponsible. we are having a family meeting today. Wish me luck.

[jnel921]

We met with our D and set some conditions in order for her to continue driving.

 

I would have loved to take the car completely away however we live in a town where vehicles are necessary. She agreed to joining a family GPS app so that I knew where she was at with my car. She also agreed to counseling.

We talked about her attitude, anger and disrespect. She apologized but this was short lived.

 

Long story short she still continues to lie so that she is driving her friends around in my car when I restricted her to home and work. I confronted her and she started screaming at me like a lunatic. She told me that I have ruined her life and she called me a curse word and that she hated me. She said she was so much happier with her BF. So I told her to bring my car home, pack a bag and leave.

 

I cant do this anymore guys. She doesn't want to deal with consequences. Yesterday I found out she wasn't paying any taxes either! She said that she wasn't going to pay anyone. I told her that one day she would be in jail.

 

This is the behavior she is exhibiting. We went to Walmart and she had 2 hands full of cosmetics and she became upset when I wanted to leave the store. She needed time to shoplift and I was "on her body" as she put in.

 

I was really upset and told her that had they stopped us for some nonsense like that, that she would be in jail for a long time because she doesn't care and I don't either.

 

I asked her to leave today. It hurts but she doesn't treat me like a mom. There is no respect here. She has sucked all of the life out of me. I feel like I have disconnected somewhat from the people closest to me to deal with this hurt and pain.

 

Her BF sent me a text to which I did not respond. He called me a piece of **** for asking her to leave in the cold and told me that no amount of gifts or money would make her come back. He is a moron. I told my D to tell him to keep my name out his mouth.

 

I blocked them both from my phone. She dropped the car off took some clothes and left. She called me and told me I didn't care about her, I care about the car.

 

I told her I care that you had some consequences in regards to restricted use and she didn't listen. I don't care that she thinks my car is a taxi. She doesn't care its not her car,.

 

I tried to help her. But nothing is working. I think I am finally at the end of the road this time.

 

What she said and what she did was too hurtful to forget.

[whichwayisup]

You both said hurtful things that can't be taken back. Emotions are really high and explosive.

 

I am wondering if your daughter is mentally ill, she's showing signs of bi polar or something. She just can't be this angry at you and okay with everybody else. Can she?

 

How old is she again? Sorry I forgot.. Is it possible to get her assessed in the hospital? Or is she just on drugs and it's totally changed her.

[amaysngrace]

This thread makes me feel really good whenever I question my own parenting.

 

Every time I have a tiff with one of my own kids or even my oldest son's fiancée I read a bit of your POV and I instantly feel better.

 

Thank you for that

[jnel921]

She will be 21 this year. I was going to make an appointment with a therapist this week but then this happened I only feel like she wont go. I am not sure if she will come back and if she does I expect a sincere apology.

 

Her crying fits and screaming is scary. She will say things like leave me alone and start stomping and throwing things. Its like a childish temper tantrum.

 

I am exhausted trying to plead and negotiate with her. My H and I are not arguing over this and I don't want us to be in a bad place. But what else can I do. Nothing is working and she doesn't listen.

 

She gets upset and leaves for a few days and comes home thinking everything is ok. But its not. Not this time.

[WomenWubber]

It's quite possible she's on all kinds of stuff at this point. Pot is not a danger in itself, but dealers use it all the time to introduce teens to other (harder) drugs.

 

She's her own person now and will have to learn from her bad life choices. Maybe it's time to let life itself be her teacher from now on.

[Whodatdog]

You've been saying that you've had enough with her during this entire thread. Its probably what you've been telling her, too. But you always let her come back and she reverts to her old self.

 

Until you stand up for yourself and mean what you say, she will never have any respect for you.

 

I wouldnt worry about her taxes. She's probably not making enough to owe any.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Whodatdog

[jnel921]

Thanks guys... yes I feel like I am on a merry go round and yes its my fault.

She isn't here and I don't expect her to come back. I cant see how she would dare. She owes me more than an apology.

 

There is no getting through to her. Yes I believe she could be on harder things as her behavior has been very violent as of late. I lock all of my doors and bedroom door at night.

 

Its a shame that this is what my D has become. I cant see her getting any better. The girl doesn't care about anyone or anything. All she wants is to be here to use my car to chauffer her BF and his family around.

 

That's not happening. I will sell the car and then she wont have a reason to want to be here.

[whichwayisup]

I touched on this before, is she bi polar? Obviously her behavior is showing signs of mental illness as well as the drug factor. Just something to think about it, if you can try to talk to someone (a lawyer) and see if you can take charge of her (not sure of the name of it) so you can legally have her assessed in a hospital. I'm wondering if she goes on meds, get therapy while in a mental health facility she might get a bit better. She's incapable of making good choices for herself right now.

[jnel921]

She was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder which makes her unable to feel empathy. Unable to control her emotions. So everything she does is without remorse and aimed to hurt.

 

I have tried to talk to her about therapy. The last time she said yes but she is barely here and gets into too many fights where she has left my home for me to even know when to make an appointment for her.

 

I am at my wits end with all of this. Not speaking to her and staying away is the only thing I can do for now. she has already told me she hates being here. She called me unspeakable names. Said she hated me. I ruined her. What else is left?

[LivingWaterPlease]

jnel, I have followed this thread since you began it.

 

I am so sorry for what you're having to deal with here in your daughter. I would have been burnt out long ago.

 

I believe your daughter is going to have to hit rock bottom before she'll be open to getting some help and changing. But I think you know this. I don't have anything to add except for written encouragement. And I do want to support you with this post.

 

God is the only one who can change her and He definitely can do it but it takes time. Just pray for her consistently (daily). I'll include her in my prayers as I pray for some on LS whose posts I've followed over the years. I'll also include you in my prayers for having strength to go on. I can only imagine your heartache and frustration.

 

Sending you a heartfelt hug and sending up a prayer for your peace and continued strength. I don't consider that lame, either! God is powerful and works through prayers, but it does take time!

[jnel921]

LWP....

 

Thanks for your post. I felt the power of your post and felt the kindness of your heart through your virtual hug. Thank you. It made me cry.

 

Yes this has been very hard. Rock bottom? I am not sure what that is anymore. As long as my D is involved with that BF of hers and his dysfunctional family I am afraid she will never learn what real responsibility and respect is.

 

I can only continue on in my own life surrounded by the people who love me and like being in my presence. It hurts that total estrangement doesn't seem so far off.

 

I was reading an article where the person was noting the top reasons kids become estranged from their parents as they grow older.

 

The first was communication. He noted that as parents we spend a lot of time shepherding our kids trying to show them how to be and what to do and as parents we look at this as helping them. However as kids get older and this is not translated that way. They see it more as control and not being able to do what it is that they want to do.

 

The second was acceptance. As parents we shouldn't question our kids or second guess their decisions as we need to show that we have trust in the things they do.

 

I would agree with all of this if my own D didn't take for granted all that we did for her and didn't appreciate any of it.

 

Communication works when it goes both ways and each side is willing to listen.

 

I cant accept and support disrespect, abuse and the terrible behavior. No parent should have to suffer at the hands of their own kids but they do.

 

In the beginning when I started to write this post a lot of people thought I had the issue, what is the big deal with smoking...blah blah blah. and here we are... all this time later and nothing has changed. Even accepting the fact that she smoked and asking her to keep it away from my home and vehicles was a problem for her. She wants everything I can give her except my love and a real relationship. I didn't bring her into this world to be treated like this.

 

Perhaps one day when she is staring down at her own D she will realize the love I had for her and how she messed that all up with her selfishness. She will have to live with that and hopefully her own D wont betray her too.