I feel grumpy

[katielee]

and I'm not sure why. I've tried to think my way through it.

Today is our 29th wedding anniversary. We plan to go out to a favorite place for supper.

Usually I post something on FB - maybe a throw back picture of us (I was in my teens in the 80s so imagine my hair!) or like last year, I wrote something very lengthy about how friendship is so important in marriage, or something cute about him/us. I don't feel like doing any of that but letting it pass by as just another day. I have a card here for him that I don't feel like signing. I can't figure this out.

On Mondays he usually goes to a service organization for lunch. I saw on FB that he was sitting at a table full of young business ladies, with his buddy. One of my friends liked the video so of course I saw it. Yes, he deals with young women in business I suppose and sits with them and converses. I guess that it his job. I go home for lunch. I'm not angry about that, I love going home. I'm not worried he's cheating. I'm not sure what I'm' worried about. I can't put my finger on it. I thought about saying, for this one day, our anniversary, could you not sit with a woman at lunch. But that seems stupid and insecure.

I think there is a little bit of resentment. He does what he wants and there is something I want to do that he is opposed to. Not yelling opposed just like it's not a great idea opposed. And it's all financial. And I'm not entirely sure I WANT to do it but I might. Maybe it's that he doesn't consult me about who he has lunch with, why should I consult him about being a yoga teacher?

is that it?

any thoughts anyone?

Edited November 21, 2016 by katielee

[BetrayedH]

Sounds like you're getting resentful over something non-infidelity-related and tempted to bring infidelity into it. It's tough to avoid, in my limited experience.

 

Based on your short post, I'm guessing you want to be taken more seriously about becoming a yoga instructor and not winning the argument is leading to resentment.

 

Do you have a good business case? Maybe you just need to do some more groundwork so it's more convincing as a viable option. More work on your part would also probably demonstrate that it's important to you and not something to be easily dismissed.

[katielee]

BH- thanks!

Maybe? I could earn/and we've discussed that I could make the money back in a year. Or, I might not want to teach and just delve deeper into my practice, at a 3k fee. This is something he would NEVER understand. Why do it if you can't make money.

And I'm not entirely sure I want to do it. I can see the case on both sides. Part of the con side is that I'm 50, we aren't here on the weekends, and I have two other part time jobs in addition to a full time job. I think the issue is that I felt I needed to ask him. But I guess if you spend 3k you should probably talk that over with your spouse.

Maybe I'm feeling that no one is asking me. He is just doing.

I'm grouchy I think because I signed up for this. And I get pissed, at times, that I did.

[BetrayedH]

BH- thanks!

Maybe? I could earn/and we've discussed that I could make the money back in a year. Or, I might not want to teach and just delve deeper into my practice, at a 3k fee. This is something he would NEVER understand. Why do it if you can't make money.

And I'm not entirely sure I want to do it. I can see the case on both sides. Part of the con side is that I'm 50, we aren't here on the weekends, and I have two other part time jobs in addition to a full time job. I think the issue is that I felt I needed to ask him. But I guess if you spend 3k you should probably talk that over with your spouse.

Maybe I'm feeling that no one is asking me. He is just doing.

I'm grouchy I think because I signed up for this. And I get pissed, at times, that I did.

 

Not sure that I have great advice for you except to say that this seems like normal marital negotiation to me. There's always somewhat of a power dynamic that seems to occur in marriage. And it seems to greatly morph over time. Without delving too far into feminism here, in some cases a woman wants her man to be self-assertive and is glad to be submissive. The man's confidence is the attraction and the woman gladly defers to him. But if respect for him is lost (or if he fails to adequately respect her), then the woman's perspective changes to desiring more equality or independence. I would think that affairs bring this to light rather dramatically as respect for the H is lost and respect for the W clearly isn't occuring either.

 

Perhaps none of this applies to you but I can't help wondering if your H is assuming that the old dynamic is still in play when it has clearly changed for you.

 

More to your specifics, I would anecdotally say that yes, spending $3k is something that you discuss and negotiate with your spouse. You probably shouldn't expect otherwise unless you're rolling in money. But it is a bit concerning that you feel "he is just doing." I'm left curious what he is "just doing." Would he spend $3k without discussing it with you?

 

It seems pretty clear that you want an equal voice and vote. Is that something you can discuss with him? It seems like you might be able to avoid resentment from building into contempt if you can get this talked through.

[katielee]

He wouldn't spend 3k without discussing it with me.

I guess I refer to just doing it as doing everything in his job as if there had been no affairs. Maybe I wish that there was more care to consider interaction with the opposite sex.

[BetrayedH]

He wouldn't spend 3k without discussing it with me.

I guess I refer to just doing it as doing everything in his job as if there had been no affairs. Maybe I wish that there was more care to consider interaction with the opposite sex.

 

I can certainly relate to this. While we were reconciling, I discovered that my wife had a one-on-one off-sight lunch planned with a male colleague. She basically told me to get over it as she was going to have these kinds of interactions at work.

 

It was one of many things that were wrong with our reconciliation.

[katielee]

Well, this was a group of about 5 gals and two males among a group of about 50 Rotary members. I'm just like whatever. But I'm obviously resentful.

What is he supposed to do? Sit at the only male table, if there is one?

I haven't discussed it with him.

[Jersey born raised]

A part of marriage is about mutual self growth and mutual support to achieve it.

 

If you have a full time job, and two part tine jobs how much time do you have for each other? Are you using this as a reason not to interact with your husband ?

[katielee]

Because we have no kids at home, we have a lot of time together. One of the half time jobs involves him. We do it together and get a sense of accomplishment from it. Plus, it brings us income. I'm not sure if I want to teach but once a week.

I do see though, how I may want to stay busy to distract myself from pain. I think the pain of the affairs has mostly healed, although I've been slow to forgive myself, and I have mistrust of him.

[katielee]

A part of marriage is about mutual self growth and mutual support to achieve it.

 

You're right. If he said I wanna take 3k to spend on myself because this is really important to me it would be a no brainer for me. I wonder if there are other issues he's concerned about.

[BetrayedH]

You're right. If he said I wanna take 3k to spend on myself because this is really important to me it would be a no brainer for me. I wonder if there are other issues he's concerned about.

 

I completely agree with the support of self growth piece. However, you don't seem convinced about what you want to do, if you want to do it at all. Are you sure he understands that this is "very important" to you when you don't know what it is?

 

That's why I suggested firming up your business case. And if it's not really a business venture, then make the case that it's something that you personally want for you.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think there is a little bit of resentment.

 

Ya think ?

 

Maybe it's that he doesn't consult me about who he has lunch with, why should I consult him about being a yoga teacher?

 

Not even close to the same thing as I'm sure you understand.

 

It sounds as though his opposition to your idea is fairly mild. Are you sure he's the one holding you back ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[katielee]

I just don't know what I'm mad about then.

 

We had a good time last night.

[katielee]

just an update to this. We went to another event last night and the gal he was sitting at the table with 3 weeks ago greeted him by yelling HEY and tried to hug him last night. He didn't hug her (I turned and couldn't even watch) but I'm like WTH? He stayed with me the entire night and we had a good time but when home I asked him what kind of relationship does he have with women that they feel they can hug him?

Sure, he didn't hug back but I am glad I brought it up. He said he can't control other people. I said I know, but the walls and boundaries have to be up.

I can't imagine having someone I work with trying to hug me. Jeez.

We talked about trust and he said he loves me and I'm his wife. I said but that was the case during our affairs too. He said he didn't know what he should say then.

We recovered after about 10 minutes and things are fine this am. But I am so very tired of this. So is he.

[understand50]

just an update to this. We went to another event last night and the gal he was sitting at the table with 3 weeks ago greeted him by yelling HEY and tried to hug him last night. He didn't hug her (I turned and couldn't even watch) but I'm like WTH? He stayed with me the entire night and we had a good time but when home I asked him what kind of relationship does he have with women that they feel they can hug him?

Sure, he didn't hug back but I am glad I brought it up. He said he can't control other people. I said I know, but the walls and boundaries have to be up.

I can't imagine having someone I work with trying to hug me. Jeez.

We talked about trust and he said he loves me and I'm his wife. I said but that was the case during our affairs too. He said he didn't know what he should say then.

We recovered after about 10 minutes and things are fine this am. But I am so very tired of this. So is he.

 

katielee,

 

Your husband does have a point, and I am glad you are "coming" around more to his side. Hugs, are not unheard of in business, they are given more in celebration, in this case, or in tragedies. Last hug I gave, at the work place, was two months ago, to a female coworker who is taking leave to fight breast cancer. I hugged her because she asked for one. Look there are always exceptions to the rule, I am sure your husband can comport himself, with out stepping over lines. Remember context, context, context. You both have done much work, over time, so you need to trust somewhat. I know you will never fully trust again, nether will he, but some trust should have been earned back by now. The best thing is that you both talked it out, and I think that is a really good sign.

 

As always I wish you luck....

[merrmeade]

Sorry but I don't like that hug either. It's like another OP in another recent thread that closed, kissing his ex-EA partner in front of his wife. She interrogated, got his answer (the truth) and then cut his balls off.

 

It's important to keep them on notice imho. My recent thread about inappropriate SMS to client which essentially conveyed what a sensitive guy WH is? Well, I can tell you he's more careful now as a result of our 'discussion' in which he said I was reading things into things. Those threads have shifted in tone. And We. Are. Clear.

 

I see nothing wrong in making sure he knows you were quite uncomfortable with that hug and whatever familiarity got them there.

[Noirek]

Sorry but I don't like that hug either. It's like another OP in another recent thread that closed, kissing his ex-EA partner in front of his wife. She interrogated, got his answer (the truth) and then cut his balls off.

 

It's important to keep them on notice imho. My recent thread about inappropriate SMS to client which essentially conveyed what a sensitive guy WH is? Well, I can tell you he's more careful now as a result of our 'discussion' in which he said I was reading things into things. Those threads have shifted in tone. And We. Are. Clear.

 

I see nothing wrong in making sure he knows you were quite uncomfortable with that hug and whatever familiarity got them there.

 

Except that in that thread he kissed the woman and this woman hugged Katielee's man. Which I could see bringing out the claws and causing jealousy but not towards her husband. Some people hug. A lot. Its not something I do but I know there are huggers in the world. And if one of those said huggers hugs my husband it isn't his fault.

 

All her husband could do was what he did. Not hug back and yet she was still upset.

[katielee]

Not hug back and yet she was still upset.

 

I was upset with the familiarity. There is no one I am in contact with in my two jobs that would hug me. . I suppose there are huggers, and my husband pointed out another woman he's friends with who's jovial, big and gregarious (his words as he described both women) one that we'll see NEXT week, and I just reminded him that THEY might get an impression of a green light if he allows that familiarity. He sees this one a lot and they hang out together at business functions.

My job is to trust him, not them. But having a brick wall up so that people automatically KNOW not to hug you, that's what I believe we're going for here.

There was a guy in my second job where after we were done with it he came in for a hug. I put my hand out. From then on it's been a handshake, particularly after what we've been through.

Edited December 1, 2016 by katielee

[Noirek]

I was upset with the familiarity. There is no one I am in contact with in my two jobs that would hug me. . I suppose there are huggers, and my husband pointed out another woman he's friends with who's jovial, big and gregarious (his words as he described both women) one that we'll see NEXT week, and I just reminded him that THEY might get an impression of a green light if he allows that familiarity. He sees this one a lot and they hang out together at business functions.

My job is to trust him, not them. But having a brick wall up so that people automatically KNOW not to hug you, that's what I believe we're going for here.

There was a guy in my second job where after we were done with it he came in for a hug. I put my hand out. From then on it's been a handshake, particularly after what we've been through.

 

This is true, but there are people, people I've been working on for years, who still forget themselves in the hugging department from time to time and I'm actually verbal with them about not hugging me. So I know about the persistence of huggers is all.

 

Did he agree to shut down all hugging verbally from now on for you? And do you think this has more to do with the lunch together than the unreciprocated hug?

[katielee]

This is true, but there are people, people I've been working on for years, who still forget themselves in the hugging department from time to time and I'm actually verbal with them about not hugging me. So I know about the persistence of huggers is all.

 

Did he agree to shut down all hugging verbally from now on for you? And do you think this has more to do with the lunch together than the unreciprocated hug?

 

Sigh... these are good points, N. If I really dig deep it's about lack of trust and me being uncomfortable with how many people he sees and has contact with during the day. Our lack of trust is what we talked about last night. And how it's a good thing the good WAY outweighs the bad. I said if this is how we are we will have these blow ups from time to time. It seems like if someone works really hard (him) they should be rewarded with trust. I just don't have it like I want to.

[Mr. Lucky]

I suppose there are huggers, and my husband pointed out another woman he's friends with who's jovial, big and gregarious (his words as he described both women) one that we'll see NEXT week, and I just reminded him that THEY might get an impression of a green light if he allows that familiarity. He sees this one a lot and they hang out together at business functions.

 

I just think you're worried about the wrong thing. I work in an office with mostly women, some are huggers and it's pretty easy to arch your body so there's very little contact. A "two hand clasp/eye contact" handshake is actually more intimate.

 

Don't make little problems into big ones. Can't help but wonder - given the history, do you feel deep down you deserve the happiness you've worked so hard to achieve ??? You seem determined to pick at it...

 

Mr. Lucky

[merrmeade]

Exactly, katielee, and I'll have to watch myself talking about huggers here - huge trigger, HUGE - but it's very much to the point. Hugging is not such a throw-away, inconsequential feature of some personalities that has no far-reaching implications. My WH blamed most of his and my sister-in-law's PA on her lifelong penchant for deep, long, meaningful hugs which her whole family loves to do and my brother and nephews took up. Then there were the massages that they were all famous for as well.

 

These things are innocent by-products of social interaction with some people and the danger zone for others. Now, granted in the case of my WH and SIL/OW the EA was already in the danger zone and her love of touch, after-the-fact blame-shifting for him.

 

I think in all of these cases, the ONLY criteria for right and wrong, too affectionate and too rigid is what is going on within the person engaged. My husband will be the first one to tell you that he "should have known better."

[Noirek]

Sigh... these are good points, N. If I really dig deep it's about lack of trust and me being uncomfortable with how many people he sees and has contact with during the day. Our lack of trust is what we talked about last night. And how it's a good thing the good WAY outweighs the bad. I said if this is how we are we will have these blow ups from time to time. It seems like if someone works really hard (him) they should be rewarded with trust. I just don't have it like I want to.

 

I think it must be hard. If I remember right you wanted to move and he didn't and maybe it goes back to that. But his willingness to discuss must help somewhat.

[merrmeade]

I think it must be hard. If I remember right you wanted to move and he didn't and maybe it goes back to that. But his willingness to discuss must help somewhat.

and that's a question, too, isn't it kl? DOES he discuss better now? Because I always have the same reaction when raining many of your threads. That is, I think by the second or third exchange why aren't you asking him these things? I wondered the same thing at the beginning of this thread. As I recall, I think you always say you weigh the pros and cons of a discussion and the importance of the issue. I can certainly understand airing things here first and then being satisfied.

[katielee]

Why not talk to him first? I just don't want to make mountains out of molehills. I want to pick my battles. We are both battle weary. The update was discussed with him first before I put it here.

I guess the fact that I saw him interacting with the same woman twice gave me cause for concern.

Yes, I'm glad I discussed it with him. He doesnt' like it but our recovery time is really good.