Thinking of separation

[justtornmama]

My husband and I have been married for 3 years. We have a toddler together and another on the way. I'm thinking of leaving him but I'm scared off making the wrong choice. Hoping just to get some insights or advice from people who've been here.

 

The simple truth is, I'm not happy in this relationship and haven't been for a while. We're two very different people and want very different things out of life and more and morw I just think we're incompatible. We married young, I think i had my doubts even then but I was blinded by love, convinced he would grow up and change. It's now become clear that he has no intention of growing up. That's on me for assuming and expecting more than I had any right to and I know that.

 

I'm resentful because most days I feel like a single parent. I stay home with our baby, with his support at first but lately it's been a point of contention because he feels I don't contribute. I feel I contribute a lot, keeping up with chores and the household and raising the baby. He works 40 hours a week and seems (to me) to feel that this excuses him from most parenting responsibilities, especially waking up with the baby at night. I do this 90% of the time but sometimes need a break and feel he should be willing to allow me to stay in bed once every few weeks while he puts her back to sleep. Last night was one of those nights, which resulted in yelling obscenities and me being called a b*tch because I told him it was his turn.

 

I'm not blameless. There are many things I need to work on in myself and in our relationship but I try and I don't feel any effort coming from him. We've reached a stalemate where every time we attempt to talk about our issues it ends in both of us telling the other the chambers we want to see but neither of us wanting to make the attempt until we see the other trying first. I feel that I do try but since I don't see it from him, what's the point in trying harder? I'm not sure if he feels the same or if he just thinks it should be up to me to change first or what.

 

I'm going to talk to him tonight and tell him we need counseling but I don't have high hopes for the direction of the conversation. He's always had a "love or nothing" attitude, meaning he thinks if two people love each other that should be enough to make things work, and if they don't stay together that means they don't love each other. This is the reason I've been hesitant to bring it up before, and I think why I looked past the differences between us in the first place. I'm worried he'll take it as I for love him anymore, which I absolutely do, but it's not feeling like enough anymore.

 

If he won't go to counseling and won't work with me on our issues, I'm thinking about telling him to find a place to stay so we can spend some time apart (we're staying with my parents at the moment so I can't really be the one to leave). The thought is terrifying to me, especially having two small children but I'm also terrified of suddenly realizing 10 years down the road, with 2 adolescent children that I just spent more than a decade of my life staying with someone who doesn't make me happy.

 

Am I justified? Am I putting myself before my husband and kids by thinking this way? I'm always thinking of all the little repercussions of separating, like what his family will think of me and the fact that he'll probably accuse me of taking his kids away from him and I'm just scared.

[PegNosePete]

You are not happy in the marriage. You have told him why and he refuses to co-operate to make things better. Have you told him all the things you mention in your post? It may be worth writing them in a letter or showing him this post. he may have heard the words, but not understood the feelings behind them.

 

I wouldn't recommend a trial separation or a "break" or a temporary moving out, though. You should exhaust all options to save the marriage first. If they all fail, then you should end it cleanly.

[Mr. Lucky]

The simple truth is, I'm not happy in this relationship and haven't been for a while.

 

Can't help but wonder - why the second child?

 

I'm going to talk to him tonight and tell him we need counseling but I don't have high hopes for the direction of the conversation.

 

MC certainly seems to be needed, lots of communication issues here. With soon-to-be two small children and living with your folks, you both need to be on the same page. Adversity is a funny thing, it bonds some couples but divides others.

 

Does he know the extent of your unhappiness?

 

Mr. Lucky

[justtornmama]

No, I don't think he knows the extent of my unhappiness. I've always been very protective of his feelings, scared to hurt him that I don't say a lot of things that need to be said. He's never shown me he can handle things that are hard to hear but I realize now that I should have said them anyway. In the past it always seemed easier to shut my mouth and keep the peace. I've done a lot of growing up in the past year or two and this is just one of the many things I regret about marrying young.

 

As for the second child, I don't have a great answer. I've always been clear that I wanted 2 kids, he was never fully onboard but knew it was not negotiable so agreed. After we had our first he began pushing for a second as soon as possible to "get it out of the way" :/ Despite my better judgement I gave in. I know it's a less than ideal situation but it's the one I'm in and my only focus now is making the best decision for my kids.

 

The biggest issue if he decides he won't do counseling or what I feel needs to be done to save our marriage, is that the reason we've recently moved in with my parents is that I lost my job just after we got pregnant. In short, we have no money for him to put a deposit on a new place. I don't think any of his family would take him in and I can't rightfully kick him out with nowhere to go. He would be here until we get our tax refund back in February so he can get an apartment, and I'm scared I can't be strong enough to not give in and agree to let him stay in that time.

 

There's also a very weak part of me that just wants to skip all of this, sweep everything under the rug like I've been doing and go on being quietly unhappy...

[PegNosePete]

I can't rightfully kick him out with nowhere to go.

Of course you can. He is a grown man, he can fend for himself. You are not his mother.

 

He would be here until we get our tax refund back in February so he can get an apartment

WE get OUR tax refund back, so HE can get an apartment?

 

If the marriage is not going to last then this is a very unwise course of action for YOU.

[justtornmama]

Of course you can. He is a grown man, he can fend for himself. You are not his mother.

 

 

WE get OUR tax refund back, so HE can get an apartment?

 

If the marriage is not going to last then this is a very unwise course of action for YOU.

 

I understand where you're coming from. And I know how I must sound. I'm not sure of anything right now, least of all whether out marriage has a chance. I don't even know what I want. No, I would not kick him out on the street. We have no money saved up and he hasn't abused me or cheated, I see no reason to be that cold. I haven't paid in any taxes this year, so really the money should be his. If it weren't for the kids I wouldn't consider keeping any of it.

 

It's easy from the outside to say of course you can kick him out, he's a grown man. But I care for him very much and don't want to ruin his life. If it were to come to it, I know losing me and the kids would destroy him. I would hate to add to that even more.

[LancasterAmos1966]

But I care for him very much and don't want to ruin his life. If it were to come to it, I know losing me and the kids would destroy him. I would hate to add to that even more.

 

 

I applaud your caring attitude. From what I have read, it appears as though separation/divorce turns into a mini-war, with both parties hating each other.

 

I'm not able to ever suggest filing divorce -- I consider marriage to be "until death do us part" -- but I'm not here to debate that topic. I'm here to offer a few comments.

 

Please don't think that losing you will destroy him. It could actually help him find someone that is more compatible with him.

 

It is true that men seem to take separation/divorce more personal (rejection, and loss of relationship) -- it appears to take a heavy toll. But, many men, including myself, have come out of that crisis being in a better position. I sure did not want to lose my wife, but now that she has been gone for awhile, my life is far better than it was with her.

 

 

I'm going to talk to him tonight and tell him we need counseling but I don't have high hopes for the direction of the conversation. He's always had a "love or nothing" attitude, meaning he thinks if two people love each other that should be enough to make things work, and if they don't stay together that means they don't love each other.

I told my wife the same thing -- that I did not go to counseling to marry and I wasn't interested in counseling to keep her. That doesn't mean I'm totally against counseling!! It just means that I can see where your husband is coming from.

 

If you and/or your husband do not have the "until-death-do-us-part convictions" that I have, then I could actually see separation/divorce being a plus for both of you.

 

I'm not suggesting that you go that route --- I'm just saying that if you decide to do that, it is not the end of the world for him or you or your kids.

 

 

 

accuse me of taking his kids away from him

You aren't taking his kids away. He will have fair visitation rights, and not to scare you, but eventually, he might even be able to get primary custody. It all depends on who is best for the children at that time.

 

If he is a top-notch dad, the kids might even choose to live with him in the future. Kids seem to choose mom in the early stages (and your child is a toddler and one is not even born) so there's probably a good chance you will receive primary custody for a long, long time -- but that could easily change in the future due to various reasons.

 

 

 

 

Am I justified?

My opinion is that marriage is for better or for worse, until death do us part. There is nothing that my estranged wife could do that would cause me to divorce her, or separate from her. She is the one that moved out several years ago.

 

But, I'm not suggesting you become like me.

 

I'm just trying to have you think about the question you asked.

 

If you don't have that same conviction that I do, then my question to you is this: Are you willing to tolerate his actions for another 5 years, 25 years or even 50 years??

 

Answering this question should help you decide if you are justified in your actions.

 

I'd make one more suggestion: If you do go with separation, please prepare yourself for divorce. If I were allowed to file divorce, I would have filed on the very day my wife walked out the door. From a man's view point, I'd never tolerate any separation in marriage.

 

And if you would separate and he'd come onto this forum, I think he'd be told to grow up, hire a lawyer, and file divorce because it doesn't seem you are compatible.

 

As I see it, you are being very fair.

 

You are giving him the option to make things rights. But, sadly, that might not happen. And that is where you must choose to tolerate his actions with hope that he will change in as time goes on, or to separate/divorce.

 

I'm sorry you are facing this difficult situation. Wishing you well.

[Satu]

A condition needs to be established which will allow you to talk openly and honestly with each other.

 

You've not been doing that, so you have a lot to talk about.

 

In this case I think it needs to be counselling.

 

I just don't see it happening in any other context.

 

Look into what is available in your area and then bring it up with your husband.

 

I understand your reservations, but if you want to repair your marriage, you might have to be quite forceful about it.

 

You're free to end the marriage, but I would at least try to fix things before taking that step.

 

 

Take care.

Edited November 22, 2016 by Satu

[Jersey born raised]

First as a BS and I am sure on behalf of every other BS here thank you for starting this journey the right way and not going down the path of emotional or physical adultery. GUARD YOURSELF YOU ARE VULNERABLE!!!

 

The 180 is usually used by WS to detach from the WS but can be modified to focus on a problem area. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/406628-critical-readings-separation-divorce. In short be open, be courteous, at times kind, compliment when he is making progress but discuss only children, financial issues, and what is being done to address the issues in the marriage.

 

Go to MC, alone if he will not go. One of you needs to know what you are doing!

 

Keep your parents out of it ! If they can be only let them be positive towards the goal of saving the marriage. Do not let them run him down.

[Mr. Lucky]

No, I don't think he knows the extent of my unhappiness. I've always been very protective of his feelings, scared to hurt him that I don't say a lot of things that need to be said. He's never shown me he can handle things that are hard to hear but I realize now that I should have said them anyway. In the past it always seemed easier to shut my mouth and keep the peace. I've done a lot of growing up in the past year or two and this is just one of the many things I regret about marrying young.

 

As for the second child, I don't have a great answer. I've always been clear that I wanted 2 kids, he was never fully onboard but knew it was not negotiable so agreed. After we had our first he began pushing for a second as soon as possible to "get it out of the way" :/ Despite my better judgement I gave in. I know it's a less than ideal situation but it's the one I'm in and my only focus now is making the best decision for my kids.

 

So, trying to look at this from his side (typical male bias, right ?), you've held him at a distance emotionally while strong-arming him into a second "nonnegotiable" pregnancy you knew he didn't want ???

 

While I'm exaggerating slightly for effect, it indicates the gulf in perception between the two of you. You need to be careful how you approach this, can't lay all the blame on him...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Marc878]

Work on your communication issues. People aren't mind readers.

 

You may be happily surprised at what you find.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Justornmama, from what you've written it definitely seems that s large part of the problems in your relationship have arisen due to a lack of adequate communication between the two of you. It also seems to me that your husband may not be paying enough attention to you and that you probably need more of an emotional connection with him which he probably unknowingly, is not providing to you. As Jersey said you are very vulnerable to having an affair because of this very reason. It is so sad to read the many stories here where the husbands have come to this forum after their wives have checked out of their marriages for precisely this reason and they acknowledge, belatedly, that they did not pay attention to their wives when they were crying out for help. Sadly by that time the relationship is severely damaged and the wife is either already involved in an affair or is so disenchanted with her husband and the relationship, that she has moved on and in her mind the marriage is already dead and buried. It seems to me that your marriage is fast reaching this point.

 

Having said this I have to say that the repercussions of divorcing your husband will have a devastating effect on both of you. Since you have one toddler already and another on the way, no job and living with your parents, it seems that you are hardly in an enviable position to fend for yourself and your babies. To expect your parents to shoulder this heavy responsibility in their retirement years is not a very wise thing to do. As far as your husband is concerned, you yourself have said that he does not have adequate funds to set himself up to be able to function as a working person. He does not have the funds to pay a deposit on an apartment for himself and he does not have close family where he can park himself. In addition to this, in your words, he would be destroyed if he lost you and the children. To me it seems that the advice given by Jersey makes eminent sense in that you attend MC on your own initially and maybe IC to be able to sort out your own problems. Additionally, you should keep trying to connect with your husband as much ad possible and convince him to attend MC with you. If all else fails you need to give him an ultimatum that things are not OK and that you are not happy and if he refuses to work on himself to improve upon his shortcomings, that there is a very real danger of your marriage ending. You have to do something to get his attention. Again as Jersey suggested try the modified 180. It may just work to get his attention. Since you are the one who is feeling unhappy and he is blissfully unaware of things it is going to be your burden to try and shake things up so that your husband wakes up to his responsibilities as a husband and father.

 

You have'nt mentioned how old the two of you are. If you are still very young then remember women mature much faster than men and your husband may well be much behind you in the process of maturing. Hope this helps. Warm wishes.

[Jersey born raised]

I remember one of my dad's friend telling me once (I am 61 so this is from a bye gone era) his wife fled back to her mom's house during the second year of their marriage. (The time they live in a small apartment.). She asked her did he ever hit you? She said no. Her mom loaded her back into the car, drove her back to the apartment yelled at them to grow up then had her son in law drive her (the mother back to her apartment) lit into him for being an ******* to go home and apologize.

 

I meet them when I was 13 years old. They had five children all turned out very well indeed. Children to take pride in. Our families have been close ever since. Amazing what no adultery, no physical abuse, and standing up for yourself and each other can achieve.

 

Learn how to fight, no hitting below the belt or above the neck and don't wear your belt around the neck. Anyone else joins in, both of you kick the crap out of them.

[testmeasure]

I'm a dad with primary custody of a toddler.

 

I attend parenting discussions which mostly include other moms. A lot of times they open these discussions with an "ice breaker". They often choose a question like: What would you do if you had a free day? Or: What would you do if you had an extra hour?

 

These questions were mystifying to me at first. With primary custody, I have plenty of free time with my daughter and because of the parenting schedule, I have quite enough free time without her. So it took me some time to understand where these moms were coming from.

 

With primary custody of a toddler I do know what it is like to be a single parent. These other moms are all married. So they have partners. But it's like their dream idea is to have a day or even just an hour for themselves. Over time I get the idea that ya, being a mom is a tough non-stop job even for these married moms. This is probably hard for your husband to understand or appreciate.

 

In that I'm sort of semi-retired, I have all the time in the world for my daughter. I view this as a gift. I think it is a great thing for at least one of the parents to stay at home and raise the children. That your husband is working so that you may do this is not a small thing.

 

Having kids is tough. The middle of the night thing is difficult. It gets better and in my experience it's worth it. With kids, the moment to moment stuff is going to get difficult at times. There's no shortcut around that.

 

The thing I would say is to step back from the difficulty of the moment and try to appreciate each other's role in the bigger picture. It's probably hard to appreciate the difficulty of doing the middle of the night thing when you have to work the next day unless you're the one doing it. It's probably also hard to appreciate the non-stop mom without a single day or even an hour for yourself unless you're the one doing it.

 

If he is living with you in your parents house, that is another thing that may be difficult in ways that are hard to appreciate. From one perspective it may seem like a gift with no down side that your parents are providing a roof over your heads. But that's way over simplistic when it comes to the psychology involved. Don't take this for granted. Even if the relationship was in perfect condition, having to live with in-laws could put strain on it in ways that are hard to see, understand, or describe. It makes things "complicated". So, that's another reason to step back and try to find some mutual appreciation for the bigger picture.