Can a Woman be a Happy Other?

[malvern99]

Now, having said that, I loved him. I won't speak for him, but I did love deeply. The hardest part for me at this very moment is something I would think every OW deals with....I am pissed at the entire world that she has everything I want (or at least thought I wanted)! She has no idea what a slippery slope she's building her life on, but that doesn't help me feel better. Its not that I'm wishing bad things on her. She is probably very innocent and doing the best she can and I'm the one intruding in her workd. How do I deal with this resentment of her?

 

We're all free to love who we please. There's no shame in that. The only thing expected of us is to do so openly and honestly. So, let me ask you this. If you love/loved your AP so deeply, why do you continue playing make believe with your spouse? Why not sit him down and tell him the truth, so that he can choose whether he is OK with the current situation or whether he wants to find someone for himself who will love him and only him? Does he not deserve at least that much in your eyes? If the roles were reversed, would you not deserve the same respect? If you love/loved your AP so deeply, why didn't you leave your spouse so you could chase AP 24/7 unencumbered? Was it fear of rejection, fear of losing your safety blanket (and by that I do not mean emotionally or financially), fear of outside judgement, fear of being alone etc etc. Was it fear at all, or was it hubris? Did you think you could handle the situation without running into problems? If you think about it, the idea of letting such a "deep love" go for an unhappy or unfulfilling marriage is insane. Why were your needs so all consuming that they blinded you to the health and well being of those around you? I ask these questions not to be mean. Answering them honestly for yourself will give you a starting place to begin to do the hard work that you need to.

 

Your anger and resentment is completely misplaced in my eyes. What did AP's poor wife ever do to you? Did she force you into the affair with her WH? Focus on yourself instead. That is the key to your situation.

[Deidre]

Maybe if you can look at it from her not knowing WHO she is really married to. Her M is a lie that is not something to be envious of.

 

And this.

 

Look at what exactly you're ''coveting,'' a guy who cheats on his wife, and uses women. Hmmm...doesn't look so appealing, does it?

[Lady2163]

I would say I was a happy other. I was single, building a business and had limited time for a relationship. I was struggling to make ends meet when we first got together.

 

Then I got financially stable. A few months ago I sold the business I built and became slightly solvent. I'm upper middle class. But I worked long hours to get here and I'm having a tough time dating because I want someone who is a partner and not a burden. I'm awfully quick to "next."

 

None of that is XMM fault.

 

When we were together we had great sex, great communication. We genuinely cared for each other - as friends. We did give Christmas and birthday gifts that were thoughtful and cost appropriate. He didn't neglect me and didn't cause stress when I was busy.

 

We are friends today. We call each other when we want to. We did exchange Christmas and birthday presents in the last 11 months. We just don't see each other. The sexual attraction is too much of a temptation.

[Chica80]

I would say I was a happy other. I was single, building a business and had limited time for a relationship. I was struggling to make ends meet when we first got together.

 

Then I got financially stable. A few months ago I sold the business I built and became slightly solvent. I'm upper middle class. But I worked long hours to get here and I'm having a tough time dating because I want someone who is a partner and not a burden. I'm awfully quick to "next."

 

None of that is XMM fault.

 

When we were together we had great sex, great communication. We genuinely cared for each other - as friends. We did give Christmas and birthday gifts that were thoughtful and cost appropriate. He didn't neglect me and didn't cause stress when I was busy.

 

We are friends today. We call each other when we want to. We did exchange Christmas and birthday presents in the last 11 months. We just don't see each other. The sexual attraction is too much of a temptation.

 

I haven't read your story? How long was your A?

When did it end?

Why did it end, if you were happy?

[msoptimistic]

So let me say this about my M. My H was actually with me when I met the MM for the first time. He recognized the attraction was there. We talked about it alot and he knew there was communication between us because there had to be for business reasons. The problem came when he became uncomfortable with the communications and held it in till he blew up with an ultimatum that it had to stop. By that point, I was too far in. Yes, I started going behind his back and the M did almost fail. I realized that each had to have their place. When I am with H, I try to be completely present with him, recignizing that MM has no place there. The couple if times a day that I talk to MM and tge rare iccassions when I see him do nit include H. They are an escape. I don't not live my H and I recognuze the two "loves" as being very different.

What I am coming to terms with and what I tried to justify by being a happy OW is not having MM in my world at all. After 4 years. And yes his BW is unaware of who she is married to. Yes she deserves my apology and even pity instead of being envious

I cant honestly say what I'm searching for. Ideally, restoring my M and moving past this A. I would think that would be a common goal to most OWs, but it is very difficult to do.....

[gettingstronger]

So let me say this about my M. My H was actually with me when I met the MM for the first time. He recognized the attraction was there. We talked about it alot and he knew there was communication between us because there had to be for business reasons. The problem came when he became uncomfortable with the communications and held it in till he blew up with an ultimatum that it had to stop. By that point, I was too far in. Yes, I started going behind his back and the M did almost fail. I realized that each had to have their place. When I am with H, I try to be completely present with him, recignizing that MM has no place there. The couple if times a day that I talk to MM and tge rare iccassions when I see him do nit include H. They are an escape. I don't not live my H and I recognuze the two "loves" as being very different.

What I am coming to terms with and what I tried to justify by being a happy OW is not having MM in my world at all. After 4 years. And yes his BW is unaware of who she is married to. Yes she deserves my apology and even pity instead of being envious

I cant honestly say what I'm searching for. Ideally, restoring my M and moving past this A. I would think that would be a common goal to most OWs, but it is very difficult to do.....

 

How does trying to be happy as an OW and moving on and working on your marriage align? Therapy and lots of it would be a great start. You're selfish and can't admit it.

[msoptimistic]

Oh yes ma'am I can definitely admit to being selfish. I have put my wants-not needs- before anything else. Its not a good feeling. I don't like that characteristic at all. Knowing the right thing to do is not the problem at all...implementing the way out is what is hard. Being selfish and not liking yourself doesnt negate the feelings you have...it gives you just enough of a moral compass to know you are wrong but not quite enough push to take that first step to walk away. Mind vs heart...and on any given day either one could be the stronger force....

[HeCantBreakMe]

Oh yes ma'am I can definitely admit to being selfish. I have put my wants-not needs- before anything else. Its not a good feeling. I don't like that characteristic at all. Knowing the right thing to do is not the problem at all...implementing the way out is what is hard. Being selfish and not liking yourself doesnt negate the feelings you have...it gives you just enough of a moral compass to know you are wrong but not quite enough push to take that first step to walk away. Mind vs heart...and on any given day either one could be the stronger force....

 

4 years is a long time. Can you really in your heart of hearts have a desire for your marriage to work? I am not sure you understand the amount of work it will take to truly repair that damage and your BS doesn't even know the full extent of that damage yet. No saying it can't be done but it I am not sure you are thinking clearly yet.

[malvern99]

So let me say this about my M. My H was actually with me when I met the MM for the first time. He recognized the attraction was there. We talked about it alot and he knew there was communication between us because there had to be for business reasons. The problem came when he became uncomfortable with the communications and held it in till he blew up with an ultimatum that it had to stop. By that point, I was too far in. Yes, I started going behind his back and the M did almost fail.

 

Your H's discomfort with the relationship wasn't the problem. The relationship itself was the problem. You had the opportunity to nip it in the bud and protect your marriage. What you have to ask yourself though is why when you saw how your "friendship" was affecting your spouse, did you decide to continue it behind his back. The answer is within you. The M didn't almost fail. It failed, and as long as there are any lies out there, it still is dead.

 

I realized that each had to have their place. When I am with H, I try to be completely present with him, recignizing that MM has no place there. The couple if times a day that I talk to MM and tge rare iccassions when I see him do nit include H. They are an escape. I don't not live my H and I recognuze the two "loves" as being very different.

 

This is where I have a different take than you. It sounds like you did and are still doing some mental gymnastics in order to justify what you want. You clearly know what you are doing is wrong, hence the need for some sort of rationalization. That is just wayward thinking.

 

"I don't not love my H" is a very awkward way of saying you love your H. Do you love your H in a romantic way or like a sibling?

 

What I am coming to terms with and what I tried to justify by being a happy OW is not having MM in my world at all. After 4 years. And yes his BW is unaware of who she is married to. Yes she deserves my apology and even pity instead of being envious

I cant honestly say what I'm searching for. Ideally, restoring my M and moving past this A. I would think that would be a common goal to most OWs, but it is very difficult to do.....

 

I can tell you one thing for sure. Your marriage can't be restored as long as this MM is still lurking in your life. The only way to move past the A is through truth. Give up the desire to control the outcome, come clean to your spouse and work your tail off on working on you. It will likely be the hardest thing you have ever had to do, but the outcome will be worth it. You will reclaim your dignity and your self in the process. It all depends on how badly you want it though. Good luck.

[malvern99]

Mind vs heart...and on any given day either one could be the stronger force....

 

That's all well and good if your actions aren't hurting other people. When they are though, it's a whole different ball game.

[Lady2163]

I haven't read your story? How long was your A?

When did it end?

Why did it end, if you were happy?

 

My affair was 7 years. It ended a little over 2.5 years ago.

 

He has worked hard for 40+ years. It started with a couple of lucky breaks. His small town minister knew the minister in his larger college town. He asked about summer work. When they found out he had some handyman skills he started working at the church the week after he graduated high school as part of a renovation team. He got paid an adult salary and got free room and board. When college started and the job was finished word had spread and he had a business all though college that employed other students doing projects. He bought his first house when he was 20 and made money renting out the extra bedrooms and the large basement. He kept the handyman business going until his first child was born (in his 30s). This was on top of his college degree profession.

 

Anyway, I said all that just to show he has done well for himself, but has worked for it. He is a respected community leader and is financially comfortable.

 

One day I just realized all that he would lose if an affair came to light. I didn't feel romantic love for him, but I just couldn't bear to see him lose EVERYTHING. He would lose his job, his kids are all grown, but they are happy and healthy. He just has a great life and a wonderful temperament - an affair is not in his character. My belief is that the sex in his marriage is very vanilla and very infrequent. And I think he needed someone who didn't want anything from him in husband/father/boss mode. I think he needed a friend and really good sex didn't hurt, either.

 

I just couldn't be the one who was responsible for him losing everything.

 

We were long distance. I knew the last time was the last time. He didn't. After our time together I went home and within a couple weeks I was dating someone. Then it got serious. Only the new boyfriend was imaginary. I blew off a coup,e of trips to see MM due to plans with "new man". I finally told him that we were going to be monogamous and had set a date to move in together. It was a gradual process. MM was happy for me.

 

We keep in touch. Things didn't work out with imaginary boyfriend, but whenever we talk I often mention some date I just had.

 

I had some major temptation this year, a few months ago. MM wanted to get together for my birthday and have one last romp. I was pretty weak and horny, but I didn't do it.

[freengreen]

That's all well and good if your actions aren't hurting other people. When they are though, it's a whole different ball game.

True. The stories where kids end up in therapies for the rest of their lives make me cringe to a ball..

[elaine567]

True. The stories where kids end up in therapies for the rest of their lives make me cringe to a ball..

 

It is something that tends to be glossed over in all of this.

Kids just seem to get ignored, as if they do not exist.

However kids are very sensitive to any changes in a household so whilst they may not know their mother is heavily involved with her co worker and can think of little else, or their father is never home because he has a woman on the side, they know something isn't right, and that is unsettling and bad for their mental health.

Too many do not take rearing children seriously enough.

[freengreen]

It is something that tends to be glossed over in all of this.

Kids just seem to get ignored, as if they do not exist.

However kids are very sensitive to any changes in a household so whilst they may not know their mother is heavily involved with her co worker and can think of little else, or their father is never home because he has a woman on the side, they know something isn't right, and that is unsettling and bad for their mental health.

Too many do not take rearing children seriously enough.

Yes Elaine, I have learned to accept that there are so many different circumstances that i can only speak for myself and I dont even expect my advice to be considered let alone taken but on kids...

 

If us adults are getting hurt about things we chose to do and then find ourselves in a rut; think about the small souls who did nothing but are in rut with us. They cant even decipher why.

Edited November 27, 2016 by freengreen

[BluesPower]

msoptimistic - I am so sorry that your hurting so bad, of course this is the one reason not to have an affair.

 

The question becomes do you really love your H? Do you really love the MM?

 

I am not saying that it is impossible to love 2 people at one. People in the poly community live this way openly. I am just not sure if you can love two people the same way at the same time.

 

One reason I feel so bad for you is that I have had women that fell deeply in love with me while we were having an affair. And, while I liked all of them, and maybe loved some of them, I just never loved them more than my wife. If I had, I would have divorced and married them.

 

The thing is that you are in love with someone that does not love you like you love him. If he felt like he loved you like you want him to, he would have asked you to divorce and be with him and he would have left his wife.

 

And that kind of is what affairs are all about. You are attracted to someone, they are attracted to you, the sex is great maybe because he is a better lover. But maybe it is because you do not have years of various resentment built up against him like you do your husband. You have not raised kids with this man and fought about how to handle all the issues that come up with children and life in general.

 

You have not picked up his dirty underwear and his sweaty clothes. See, when you are in an affair, it is just so easy to be in love, because real life does not get in the way when you are together.

 

And I may be wrong here, but if you still love your husband after all these years, even a little, maybe that is the greater love in real life because that love has actually gone through kids, dirty underwear and life in general.

 

None of this may help to alleviate the pain that you are in, and I know how bad that can be. But it may give you something to focus on for the long run as you deal with the pain from the affair.

[Chica80]

My affair was 7 years. It ended a little over 2.5 years ago.

 

He has worked hard for 40+ years. It started with a couple of lucky breaks. His small town minister knew the minister in his larger college town. He asked about summer work. When they found out he had some handyman skills he started working at the church the week after he graduated high school as part of a renovation team. He got paid an adult salary and got free room and board. When college started and the job was finished word had spread and he had a business all though college that employed other students doing projects. He bought his first house when he was 20 and made money renting out the extra bedrooms and the large basement. He kept the handyman business going until his first child was born (in his 30s). This was on top of his college degree profession.

 

Anyway, I said all that just to show he has done well for himself, but has worked for it. He is a respected community leader and is financially comfortable.

 

One day I just realized all that he would lose if an affair came to light. I didn't feel romantic love for him, but I just couldn't bear to see him lose EVERYTHING. He would lose his job, his kids are all grown, but they are happy and healthy. He just has a great life and a wonderful temperament - an affair is not in his character. My belief is that the sex in his marriage is very vanilla and very infrequent. And I think he needed someone who didn't want anything from him in husband/father/boss mode. I think he needed a friend and really good sex didn't hurt, either.

 

I just couldn't be the one who was responsible for him losing everything.

 

We were long distance. I knew the last time was the last time. He didn't. After our time together I went home and within a couple weeks I was dating someone. Then it got serious. Only the new boyfriend was imaginary. I blew off a coup,e of trips to see MM due to plans with "new man". I finally told him that we were going to be monogamous and had set a date to move in together. It was a gradual process. MM was happy for me.

 

We keep in touch. Things didn't work out with imaginary boyfriend, but whenever we talk I often mention some date I just had.

 

I had some major temptation this year, a few months ago. MM wanted to get together for my birthday and have one last romp. I was pretty weak and horny, but I didn't do it.

 

 

Thank you. I understand the part of not wanting him to lose everything.

 

Do you think it was easier because you didn't feel "romantic love" as you say.

Do you think a part of you never let you go there?

[elaine567]

Yes, as long as she has no feelings for the MM.

He is a FB, a FWB, he scratches an itch, he may be a fun person to hang out with, but no expectations and no emotions. No love story.

 

Once there is any hint of feelings, then she will no longer be happy playing second fiddle to his wife/gf/fiancée and part of her will always want more, and that will always erode her happiness.

[norudder]

msoptimistic - I am so sorry that your hurting so bad, of course this is the one reason not to have an affair.

 

The question becomes do you really love your H? Do you really love the MM?

 

I am not saying that it is impossible to love 2 people at one. People in the poly community live this way openly. I am just not sure if you can love two people the same way at the same time.

 

One reason I feel so bad for you is that I have had women that fell deeply in love with me while we were having an affair. And, while I liked all of them, and maybe loved some of them, I just never loved them more than my wife. If I had, I would have divorced and married them.

 

The thing is that you are in love with someone that does not love you like you love him. If he felt like he loved you like you want him to, he would have asked you to divorce and be with him and he would have left his wife.

 

And that kind of is what affairs are all about. You are attracted to someone, they are attracted to you, the sex is great maybe because he is a better lover. But maybe it is because you do not have years of various resentment built up against him like you do your husband. You have not raised kids with this man and fought about how to handle all the issues that come up with children and life in general.

 

You have not picked up his dirty underwear and his sweaty clothes. See, when you are in an affair, it is just so easy to be in love, because real life does not get in the way when you are together.

 

And I may be wrong here, but if you still love your husband after all these years, even a little, maybe that is the greater love in real life because that love has actually gone through kids, dirty underwear and life in general.

 

None of this may help to alleviate the pain that you are in, and I know how bad that can be. But it may give you something to focus on for the long run as you deal with the pain from the affair.

 

Good points BP. I've brought up the "poly" factor before in discussions of what it means to "love" and how perhaps some of the mm/mw would be better suited to that lifestyle if they had the morals to transition to it with honesty. In the variety of poly configurations there's still often someone not being loved as a "primary" though so even being in a poly situation, many OW still wouldnt be happy if what they truly want is to be loved in that way. I suppose having two or co-primaries or whatever the appropriate term would be is possible, then you can share the dirty underwear love.

[msoptimistic]

I have spent alot of time driving today and thinking. It boils down to this for me...I selfishly want this man in my life in any capacity and because there are feelings involved, being the Other will never work. It is very selfish to allow this man to rob me of the happy person who my family and friends enjoy being around. It is wrong for me to provide such an easy escape for him to cheat. It is wrong to throw self respect to the curb. It is wrong to treat H this way when he has never done anything to warrant being betrayed. I have idoized a man who cheats and lies and wronged a man who has stood beside me through dirty laundry and all. Time to rewire my thinking. One thing that has helped me today is to keep telling myself I will reach the other side...and then, no more crying through the holidays, no being terrified to look at FB because he has sent her flowers, no being distracted when spending time with family. Not feeling guilty when my grown daughter wants to talk about relationships or my son asks questiins about why his friends cheat when it is so wrong. I have to figure this out. Step by step now and by next holiday season, I'll be in a different place, with some peace. I do intend on working on my M. So, I just blocked FB, I have blocked his number on my cell and as this plays out, should he attempt to make contact, I will block those ways too. Time to be an adult and simply do right.

[HeCantBreakMe]

I have spent alot of time driving today and thinking. It boils down to this for me...I selfishly want this man in my life in any capacity and because there are feelings involved, being the Other will never work. It is very selfish to allow this man to rob me of the happy person who my family and friends enjoy being around. It is wrong for me to provide such an easy escape for him to cheat. It is wrong to throw self respect to the curb. It is wrong to treat H this way when he has never done anything to warrant being betrayed. I have idoized a man who cheats and lies and wronged a man who has stood beside me through dirty laundry and all. Time to rewire my thinking. One thing that has helped me today is to keep telling myself I will reach the other side...and then, no more crying through the holidays, no being terrified to look at FB because he has sent her flowers, no being distracted when spending time with family. Not feeling guilty when my grown daughter wants to talk about relationships or my son asks questiins about why his friends cheat when it is so wrong. I have to figure this out. Step by step now and by next holiday season, I'll be in a different place, with some peace. I do intend on working on my M. So, I just blocked FB, I have blocked his number on my cell and as this plays out, should he attempt to make contact, I will block those ways too. Time to be an adult and simply do right.

 

Good for you - just know you will have weak moments. You need to start seeing him for who he really is this will help.

[malvern99]

I have spent alot of time driving today and thinking. It boils down to this for me...I selfishly want this man in my life in any capacity and because there are feelings involved, being the Other will never work. It is very selfish to allow this man to rob me of the happy person who my family and friends enjoy being around. It is wrong for me to provide such an easy escape for him to cheat. It is wrong to throw self respect to the curb. It is wrong to treat H this way when he has never done anything to warrant being betrayed. I have idoized a man who cheats and lies and wronged a man who has stood beside me through dirty laundry and all. Time to rewire my thinking. One thing that has helped me today is to keep telling myself I will reach the other side...and then, no more crying through the holidays, no being terrified to look at FB because he has sent her flowers, no being distracted when spending time with family. Not feeling guilty when my grown daughter wants to talk about relationships or my son asks questiins about why his friends cheat when it is so wrong. I have to figure this out. Step by step now and by next holiday season, I'll be in a different place, with some peace. I do intend on working on my M. So, I just blocked FB, I have blocked his number on my cell and as this plays out, should he attempt to make contact, I will block those ways too. Time to be an adult and simply do right.

 

This is great news. It seems like you've almost set your mind to the task at hand. The next step is making a plan. Do you know how you will get from point A to point B. If you don't have a plan, your chance of success is non existent.

 

I say almost set your mind for several reasons. The most obvious one is at the very end of your post. Why wait for him to try and make contact in other ways before you block those avenues? Why not preemptively block all those avenues right now? The person who is genuinely afraid of the wolf outside their house does not leave the door slightly ajar. They slam the door shut and lock it for good measure. What you are talking about sounds like only closing the door once the wolf is already in your house.

 

Also remember, you are not a victim in this situation. Don't act like one. You can only control yourself. Focus on that and your family. Their love is free and it isn't destructive. Good luck.

[msoptimistic]

I would love some help with an escape plan. Waking up in the morning and remembering whats going on is going to be the hardest for me. Since yesterday I have just kept telling myself to hold on, give my mind time to start thinking about other things, give my heart time to heal and just imagine how beautiful it is going to be on the other side where peace exists. That is the only thing I know to hold onto at this moment.

 

And what I actually meant about the blocking was that I have blocked all the known ways that he has used before. He has however, purchased a burner phone, used a work and then an old email before for contact. There may be avenues that I dont know of till they happen and I will block those as they occur.

 

What are some active tools to use to move forward? It seems that for so long my mind has always drifted to him and I want that to stop ASAP.

[elaine567]

What are some active tools to use to move forward? It seems that for so long my mind has always drifted to him and I want that to stop ASAP.

 

Suppressing the 'white bears' - Meditation, mindfulness and other tools can help us avoid unwanted thoughts

[BluesPower]

msoptimistic some of that will just take time...

 

It takes time to get over someone. It is hard to hear but it is the truth.

 

Some of the stuff that Elaine is laying on you will help. Posting her when you feel weak and want to talk to OM helps.

 

Honestly reading about affairs can really help. Then the is the inevitable work on yourself. That when you get past the pain of not seeing him, is actually the most difficult part in so many ways.

 

Another good one it to see what you can do to improve your marriage and sex life. Those are always good things too.

 

Getting over this stuff is a marathon not a sprint. You will fail miserably sometimes and you will have triumphs.

 

You just have to hang on. I will say that NC with him will help you so much as hard as it is, that is the thing that will allow those feeling to fade.

 

Keep posting and stay strong...

[Noirek]

Time, self control and if you slip up not throwing it all the wind but starting over again, like an addict. It isn't easy. Some days are for sure harder than others and everyone is so different that some ways work for some people and don't for others. So keep on working on yourself and moving forward.