Deeply hurt- need

[ladydesigner]

So we've concluded that the real crime in all of this is his deception when he recommitted? This is becoming surreal. She slept with another man, freely and openly, deceiving a newlywed husband who loved her and trusted her.

 

He gave her a gift when he recommitted, probably not understanding how difficult it would be for him to get over her affair. The slate was not clean when the second marriage began. If it were, this whole issue could be resolved by them getting married for a third time. It's just not that simple.

 

If you read through this thread, you won't find anyone who blames her for her husband's affair. The decision was all on him. But we're trying to determine his mindset and the things that can help both of them heal. The question of "fault" keeps getting raised by angry women who want the OP to exact some kind of revenge on her husband, or make him understand his moral failings. He already understands that--that's why he confessed all on his own.

The question, at this point, is how to best save the marriage, which seems to be their mutual goal.

 

Well it is great that he confessed but now he has to walk the walk of a WS and it doesn't really seem like that is happening.

[WilyWill]

Well it is great that he confessed but now he has to walk the walk of a WS and it doesn't really seem like that is happening.

 

Agreed. Every commenter on this thread, male and female, has said that. The question is how to get him there. I'm not sure that divorce papers will do the trick. I'm not sure that explaining his his deceptive decision to recommit will carry much weight. I don't think digging in one's heels and claiming the moral high ground will accomplish anything.

[Deeplyhurt30]

I confessed on my own as well because I did feel horrible, and I put in whatever he asked of me- I'm just trying to seek understanding here as I am left clueless- I understand it being hard for him and I have completely changed my life for him. I just think I des every the same amount of cooperation when he is telling me I am the one he wants to always be with. He even let her know during that time that he wouldn't leave me.

[Noirek]

Personally I think blaming past infidelity can be a bit of a cop out for an affair. Just another excuse to do cheat really and ignore one's conscience. An immediate RA is different of course when one is in throws of the after emotions but since many people cheat regardless of ever being cheated on. Its a bit to easy and shallow to simply put his affair all on her affair. He is a grown a$$ adult who makes his own choices. Got in with a rather sexy lady and did the dance. Her affair may have been used in his mind as justification but thousands of men and women do not cheat after being cheated on. One does not mean the other has to happen.

[l8estnews]

She slept with another man, freely and openly, deceiving a newlywed husband who loved her and trusted her.

 

Yes, she did this. Her defense was that she's very young and naive. But is it an excuse? Probably, maybe. they both married young and shouldn't have been. They were basically kids when they made vows to each other. Vows that even "matured, adult" people are having difficulties keeping (Hello, Loveshack!). OP says she had her affair 8 years ago. Considering that she;s 30 now, means she's 22 when she committed her affair. They were together since they were 15. So, what can we deduce here? Both married young, and very naive and uninformed of what marriage life will be. Is this an excuse for OP's cheating scheme? No. But we can understand why it happened.

 

He gave her a gift when he recommitted, probably not understanding how difficult it would be for him to get over her affair. The slate was not clean when the second marriage began. If it were, this whole issue could be resolved by them getting married for a third time. It's just not that simple.

 

Gift? Marriage Vows aren't just gifts to be given like gifts. Vows are commitments that should've been made with informed decisions, understanding, and reflection. Obviously, when they did the 1st marriage, they weren't aware of the real struggles that they may face in the long run. (i.e. growing up, finding others attractive, falling in love with other people etc.) so the infidelity happened. But since the affair and the divorce, these people learned something from each other that they didn't know before they initially married. I will focus on the husband's learnings:

 

1.) The person he married is capable of cheating.

2.) She is capable of hurting him in that way.

3.) He might have viewed her as a vile human being for a while.

 

He had this information, (and if I understand correctly, they don't have kids yet during this time) yet he decided to commit again to her, by marrying her. Not just a bf-gf relationship, but decided to marry her again. After 3 months. Did the OP compelled him to marry her again? No. Why re-marry a cheater then? If you are a person with a healthy mindset, you will only remarry a person who cheated on you for these scenarios:

 

1.) I completely healed from the pain she caused me

2.) I fully forgave her

3.) I am ready to put the past behind me and make a clean slate

4.) I am ready to take her back as my wife.

 

So:

 

So we've concluded that the real crime in all of this is his deception when he recommitted? This is becoming surreal.

 

Not surreal at all. You don't marry someone you don't trust, you don't take back a person whom you haven't forgiven, and especially, if you are a normal person, you will not marry your wife and engage in my own affair because she did it anyway 8 years ago.

 

But we're trying to determine his mindset and the things that can help both of them heal. The question of "fault" keeps getting raised by angry women who want the OP to exact some kind of revenge on her husband, or make him understand his moral failings. He already understands that--that's why he confessed all on his own.

 

The question, at this point, is how to best save the marriage, which seems to be their mutual goal.

 

And it's a mindset that I believe is not healthy for this marriage to work. As seen in this thread, he won't engage on any kind of work the right way. For me, this relationship is no longer mendable in a sense that the husband will always hang the OP's initial affair to the door. That his action is always okay because of that mistake.

 

Clean slate is best for both of them, and I mean new people for each of them.

[WilyWill]

So now we're partially excusing her behavior because she was young and naive and not ready to be married. But when he made the decision to recommit, around the same timeframe, he should have been thinking like a fully-grown adult, capable of making sound decisions. Can't we regard his recommital as a young, naive mistake?

 

Double standards will not help here. Her husband won't understand them, and no men in here will. Honestly, double standards are one of the more deplorable aspects of Feminism. Treat adults as adults, regardless of gender. He's a 23-year-old man, so we respect him and his ability to make decisions, but she's forever a precious child-flower, incapable of making the right choice. I don't buy it.

 

When she slept with another man, he offered her reconciliation, recommitment. This was indeed a gift, no matter how you might spin it. It sounds like even the OP fully understands that he would have been justified in walking out.

 

I think I'm done discussing the "who's wrong, who's right" aspect to all this. It is non-productive to the OP's goal of keeping her marriage together.

Edited November 25, 2016 by WilyWill

[ladydesigner]

Agreed. Every commenter on this thread, male and female, has said that. The question is how to get him there. I'm not sure that divorce papers will do the trick. I'm not sure that explaining his his deceptive decision to recommit will carry much weight. I don't think digging in one's heels and claiming the moral high ground will accomplish anything.

 

WilyWill you make a great point here and it may be the thing that makes or breaks them.

 

OP can I make a suggestion for both if you have not already done so. There is a book titled "How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair" by Linda J. MacDonald. It is a great read for both betrayed and waywards.

Edited November 25, 2016 by ladydesigner

[LargoLagg]

In this day and age, I always question why people can just throw away a good relationship just because of lust, and finding something new. But I am also appalled as to why there are some people who really knew how sh*tty their partners are but they can't seem to find the strength to throw them away.

 

What's happening in this world?!

I'd be willing to bet that he thought something like

 

You know, if anybody can understand why a person would want to have an affair, it would be my wife. She may not like it, but she'd understand it.

[NuevoYorko]

I disagree. As far as we know, he did not cheat until she decided to open their marriage.

Then they got divorced. He is a grown man, for heaven's sake. He chose to remarry her and have children with her in the construct of a traditional marriage, not an open marriage. If he was too deeply emasculated by her affair then he should not have chosen to do those things. Since he did, her past behavior in no way justifies his current actions. He's accountable for himself.

 

Some of you dudes talk like he's a little baby incapable of making commitments and being fully responsible for them.

[katielee]

I'd be willing to bet that he thought something like

 

You know, if anybody can understand why a person would want to have an affair, it would be my wife. She may not like it, but she'd understand it.

 

I remember thinking, after I confessed, wow that was sooooeasily avoidable. The decision and choices made were very intentional. That's why I was so angry with myself and then with him.

[Jersey born raised]

Only read the first page and a half before jumping here to comnent but I will go back and read all.

 

What is worse a person who experiences childhood sexual abuse or the person who has and then as an at adult stands back and let's another child be abused and figures I got though it so they will to?

 

If I was knew your husband I would level him. Everything bit of pain she caused you, you turned around and caused her with a loan shark's rate of interest. You KNEW WHAT IT WOULD DO TO HER BOTH INTELLECTUAL AND EMOTIONALLY !!! What type of human being are you?

 

There is a lot to sort though here starting with regret (which always leads to some type of false reconciliation) and remorse and then what needs to done to rebuild a new marriage though reconciliation. For each of us the path will be different but understand for every path to heaven there are a 1,000,001 and one straight to hell.

 

Take deep paths and center yourself carefully.

[Jersey born raised]

Also your husbands job is already in jeopardy. A quick rule of thumb companies use in this situation is the boss has to go to avoid legal poblems.

[elaine567]

Then they got divorced. He is a grown man, for heaven's sake. He chose to remarry her and have children with her in the construct of a traditional marriage, not an open marriage. If he was too deeply emasculated by her affair then he should not have chosen to do those things. Since he did, her past behavior in no way justifies his current actions. He's accountable for himself.

 

Some of you dudes talk like he's a little baby incapable of making commitments and being fully responsible for them.

 

Seems that here we have "men" convincing everyone that "men" given the opportunity will have sex with any attractive woman who is willing, but on the other hand we have "men" saying the the husband only cheated because he was so hurt by his wife's cheating.

 

The wife did not "open" the marriage. He agreed to remarry, took the vows and had kids, nothing here was "open", until he decided to sleep with his coworker, behind his wife and his children's back.

 

Seems to me that it is perfectly possible that he got over his wife's cheating years ago, he did fully commit to the re-marriage after all, but when Miss Willing showed up, he merely acted like ALL men do, (we are led to believe), and simply took what he could get as it was offered to him on a plate..

 

At 30 and together since 15, there are going to be issues associated with the lack of sowing "wild oats" on both sides and whilst it all makes for a great "love story" - as we can see, it is in reality, falling apart at the seams.

Unless both are willing to go to MC/IC and pick over the bones of this, for their kids if for nothing else, then it will work "fine" until some other Mr or Miss Willing shows up.

[BluesPower]

I have engaged in the he felt she felt thing on OP's thread as well.

 

All of the men and women have had our say about those factors.

 

We are doing OP a disservice by continuing that debate.

 

So I am going to try and speak directly to Deeply hurt.

 

DH - you guys are 30 years old, so if either of you want to you can divorce and you still have time to find someone else, start a new life, and try to be happy. It is just a totally valid option for both of you.

 

The question that you have to ask and decide is this. Are you guys still in love with one another. I mean really in love. I have been through some of the most horrible stuff with my wife that you can imagine. And honestly, most people, even on LS, cannot imagine. But we have a totally wonderful, totally deep, and totally dysfunctional love. It does not make sense to most people or to us.

 

But we are in love, and always will be, even if one or the other of us files for divorce, we will still love each other.

 

Do you love your husband? Does he love you? These are the first 2 questions you guys have to answer.

 

If the answer is not "YES" to both, you guys need to end the marriage and start new lives apart.

 

So DH, what is the answer?

[Deeplyhurt30]

Yes he says he still loves me and always has-he just made some stupid mistakes

 

 

I do love him- I feel throughout everything we have been through up until the last two years, our love was on a much deeper level

 

Then this has happened

[merrmeade]

What I am worried about here is that she has literally suffered no consequences (other than the fact she told me herself she would not tell her husband and would have to live with that) ...

This is very real. My sister-in-law, the OW, never suffered any consequences other than telling her children, which I am not convinced she necessarily did. The depth of the pain and destruction of the affair will NEVER be fully witnessed or understood, much less felt, by the MM or MW whose spouse isn't told. Hell, my WH barely gets it. How much less will the OW?

 

You have already experienced the pain of her unreasonable, selfish requests (and by the way, you're extremely gullible to the twisted cheater reasoning that BOTH this OW and your WH are used to concocting to justify their actions and are now trying to cajole you with). The result of continuing to have the OW/OM in your life in this kind of situation is that her continuing presence in your life will be a never-ending trigger for you.

 

Precisely because I realized that my sister-in-law OW was never going to understand or acknowledge to me the wrongness of her actions, I finally cut her permanently from my life. She knows it and my nephews know it. Of course, it colors all third and fourth-party connections but so be it. I am free.

 

And you should be free of this impossible responsibility as well, too. Ideally neither you nor your husband should ever see her again. HE is the one who needs professional help and reading to make him more sensitive to your suffering and needs right now. And I don't think your first affair has anything to do with this requirement. It is what you're feeling and there's no sense in arguing whether you have a "right" to suffer from his infidelity. Only when you get past the real and debilitating fallout from what he did will you be able to work through each's responsibility. But he hasn't even stepped up to the plate.

 

Just don't cut yourself short, Deeply. This is not an intellectual decision and it is CERTAINLY not his place to say you "should" not be feeling this way. You simply are feeling this way. That's all that matters. If he loves you, if he wants to make amends, he will not try to give you rules and rationale for how you should feel and what you can talk about.

Edited November 26, 2016 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

I have forgiven him for a string of things even before his sexual affair with the co worker. I have found pictures of other women on his phone as well as hidden phone numbers, and him admitting to me of having talked on the phone.

These behaviors were already troublesome red flags and anti-reconciliation. It's too bad you let them slide.

He tells me he had no feelings for this woman but that is very hard for me to believe - I just can't see him being that way at all. He told me I did nothing wrong during the time of his straying?

The part in bold is a classic WH line. Whether they really believe or it's to lessen the significance of the betrayal for the BW, I think it's something they hope will get the BW to stop asking questions. Maybe it's how they excuse themselves. They may say they had no "feeling" for the OW, but I believe that's because the pull of the attraction shuts down thought and feeling that might deter them.

OP, your husband never completely forgive you for your cheating, probably he tried but he didn't. He used that to justify his cheating and that is wrong, he should now give you the same comfort that you give him then. But you should not, at any cost, tell him that his cheating is worse than yours... that won't bring you any good. It will make him more angry and less willing to be collaborative and understanding to you.

I agree with this, but not to the extent that you have to worry about making him angry. That's crazy making. And so is holding your grief and sadness to yourself.

 

The reason you should not tell him his cheating is worse than yours is that comparing is not the point or helpful. You don't have to argue. YOu only have to share what YOU are feeling as a result of what he did. Keep it there and don't hold back. If you're suffering, he should know and you should not hide it or deny it.

Her son was doing work study with my husband during all of the time!! What kind of woman is this?

No. The question has two sides: What kind of man is he.

[BluesPower]

merrmeade makes some really good points...

 

What I am not sure of is if he is still involved with her or if he might be in the future. Now, if he confessed of his own volition I cannot see him still being involved with her. If he thought someone might rat on him and he confessed that is a different story.

 

The question is will he get involved with her again since they work together. I guess that might be possible as long as they work together. I have had it go both ways. It could be that he needs to change jobs if that is even possible.

 

The most pressing question in what to do now: If he is wanting to rug sweep his affair like it appears that you both did on your affair, that is not going to work. You can see where that has gotten you so far.

 

Some of the posters want to say that the two affairs are unrelated, in some way they are and in some ways they are not.

 

The point is that now you are hurting because of his affair regardless of anything else.

 

It is his turn to comfort you and both of you need to start MC in order to deal with both affairs the proper way. Some counselors will say that both of you need to be forward looking with your marriage and leave the past behind. Ours tried to do that and I went along with it for about 5 minutes.

 

In MC you guys HAVE to deal with both issues. You both have to be able to get your feelings out about all of this. Be warned, this part of MC will be by far the worst part. It will lead to a lot of anger on both sides and stuff will just come up that neither of you will expect because you will be triggered as you talk about how you feel about everything.

 

DH - don't take this affair as the end right now. If you both work on your issues, it can be over come. Trust me on that.

[road]

There is no double standard

Them both having an affair was wrong

 

 

When the WW had her affair the blame was on her. It was her decision. Her free will. In her own mind she justified banging her OM.

 

 

The BH may of never had an affair if his WW did not cheat first. He may of had one eventually even if the WW never had her affair. We will never know because his WW did have an affair first and now there is know way of knowing where there future would of have gone.

 

 

What is known?

 

 

That many a BS goes and has a revenge affair. The RA can happen right away sometimes with the AP's BS. That the RA can happen years later.

 

 

Why?

 

 

Is this case the BH was humiliated on many levels by his WW and the OM. The WW and the OM metaphorically castrated the BH. The BH uses false justification as his WW did when she justified her banging her OM. So to metaphorically medicate his pain he has a RA.

 

 

Also being outsiders we would not know how recovery after the WW's affair was handled. Then even it was handled perfectly still does not mean that the BH was able to let go of the taste of the manure sandwich that he was forced to eat.

 

 

Collateral damage. Thanks Arnold.

[understand50]

Yes he says he still loves me and always has-he just made some stupid mistakes

 

 

I do love him- I feel throughout everything we have been through up until the last two years, our love was on a much deeper level

 

Then this has happened

 

Deeplyhurt30,

 

Sorry for your troubles. Merrmeade and other make some good points and have given you some good advise. I would like to add to that, by pointing out, that your past cheating has no baring on what you should do. By your own account, that was dealt with and you both were in reconciliation. The idea that he had a "free" hand for a revenge affair is bogus. If anything the amount of time that has elapsed, points to this. The only thing you may have that most BS do not have, is that you can put yourself in his place a bit and understand his fears and issues right now. In other words, when he does things, you can relate. May help you navigate over the next few months.

 

Now your first thing is to decide if you are going to give him the gift of a second chance. Think about this long and hard. You know reconciliation is a hard business, and lots of things have to take place on both sides for it to work. See if you can work out if you two have a chance to do this a second time. You may decide to divorce, and you have every right to do this, if you think it is in your best interest. If you decide to reconcile, you have every right to insist on new rules for the marriage. I think there were many things you had to do to "win" him back and rules you follow to this day. I do not think he had much to do. If you give him a second chance, he will have things he will have to do. Insist on it. You both need a "new" marriage.

 

So, now is the time to decide what you want. Take your time, and do not be a doormat. I am sure that you have all the strength you need to come trough stronger then ever. There is much hurt and pain right now, but you came trough it the last time, you can do it again this tine, no matter what path you decide to take.

 

I wish you luck.....

[DKT3]

Affairs are rarely actually dealt with. Most often the unfaithful spouse thinks because the relationship continues that all is well.

 

Now I agree that each has to own thier respective affairs, however her husband did what most BH do. He took her affair as a deposit that he could withdraw at a later date.

 

Divorce, coming back together and all, but it doesn't erase the past, her affair still happened, it was likely a huge contributing factor to his affair, if nothing more then to be that small shove over the final line.

[katielee]

Awesome. I now have an affair in my back pocket I can cash in at any time. Following this logic at least.

[Noirek]

Awesome. I now have an affair in my back pocket I can cash in at any time. Following this logic at least.

 

No, no, you started it. He gets to cheat as many times as he wants and blame you (sarcasm)

 

I think the problem with double betrayals like this is the expectations on the origional WS to take it because they cheated first. However, the fact the marriage ended and they actually remarried and said their vows over is actually a pretty key componant. And it hardly counts as rugsweeping. Her infidelity actually ended their marriage. He didn't get pushed over the line... he stepped.

 

I think the OP is allowed to act as a BS and lay down her boundaries in this. And I don't think she needs to take an ounce of responsibility for his actions. However, I don't think she was any less guilty in her affair being young. She was still an adult. She still knew right from wrong.

[DKT3]

No, no, you started it. He gets to cheat as many times as he wants and blame you (sarcasm)

 

I think the problem with double betrayals like this is the expectations on the origional WS to take it because they cheated first. However, the fact the marriage ended and they actually remarried and said their vows over is actually a pretty key componant. And it hardly counts as rugsweeping. Her infidelity actually ended their marriage. He didn't get pushed over the line... he stepped.

 

I think the OP is allowed to act as a BS and lay down her boundaries in this. And I don't think she needs to take an ounce of responsibility for his actions. However, I don't think she was any less guilty in her affair being young. She was still an adult. She still knew right from wrong.

 

The thing is, unless they actually did something different then it doesn't matter that they divorced and remarried, they are still the same people with the same issues, same resentment, same dynamic. It's all fine and good to say the the divorce wiped away her affair, buuuutttt, the reality in the real world is it doesn't. When he wakes in the morning he still sees the same woman that cheated.

 

Divorce doesn't deal with the emotional fallout of affairs, it just means you no longer have a legal and moral bond with that person. I suspect they simply fall back into the same old same old. Her thinking all is good because he came back and they remarried.

 

Again in theory it should, but relationships never work like we expect or hold up to theory. People are flawed and messy.

[Noirek]

The thing is, unless they actually did something different then it doesn't matter that they divorced and remarried, they are still the same people with the same issues, same resentment, same dynamic. It's all fine and good to say the the divorce wiped away her affair, buuuutttt, the reality in the real world is it doesn't. When he wakes in the morning he still sees the same woman that cheated.

 

Divorce doesn't deal with the emotional fallout of affairs, it just means you no longer have a legal and moral bond with that person. I suspect they simply fall back into the same old same old. Her thinking all is good because he came back and they remarried.

 

Again in theory it should, but relationships never work like we expect or hold up to theory. People are flawed and messy.

 

Yeah but that is just adding to their story to get him off the hook... or lighten his cupability. They divorced, talked, remarried (maybeLS fast but everyone runs on their own clock) she gave up passwords and cellphone and all that stuff touted. She quit her job. They both chose to have children. I think pinning this on her affair is weak in this case.

 

The WH doesn't even want to quit his job. What is a result of her affair is "i forgave you, you should forgive me." But if they want to repeat the steps then they need to divorce... ect, ect. So while I don't doubt he may have justified his actions with the affair. In light of the whole picture. He probably would have slept with experienced lady and found another excuse. He wanted to do it... so he did.

 

And the divorce didn't change their history. But it contradicts all the talks of rugsweeping and it also takes away from the idea of a man trapped in marriage to a WS with kids and writhing in pain from infidelity that some people like to paint on here

Edited November 26, 2016 by Noirek