Deeply hurt- need

[katielee]

Hold on a minute Katie.

 

Maybe that is a typo. But a betrayed spouse has to be helped to heal by the wayward spouse.

 

Which makes this situation so difficult in general. Here are the reasons IMHO:

 

1) Wife's first affair was rug swept. I glean this from BW's thoughts on her H's affair and her thinking that because they divorced and remarried he was over her affair. YOU NEVER GET OVER AN AFFAIR. Anyone that says they are over it is, ever her H, is a liar. Or they are incredible un-self-aware. You only learn to live with it.

 

Also, they were just too young to deal with actual healing from an affair. At that age, you just don't have the tools to deal with this stuff.

 

2) BW has to realize that while her affair plays into things, HE HAD NO RIGHT TO SLEEP AROUND.

 

3) He is lying to her about some details, end of story. I am guessing that this is not the only woman that he has slept with just, probably the latest. Even is she is the only woman he has slept with, he is not telling her everything. I have no idea how may time I slept with various women. Most men do not remember those details over a long period of time.

 

4) If she is upset that he was in love with other woman, do be. He was not, and most men don't fall in love regardless of what all of you beautiful women think, Me and every other man here have told you that.

 

5) Just an FYI, all men are pigs, it is just a fact. Any women whose husband had told you that is being lied to. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

6) She should be upset that he betrayed her, because he betrayed her. Not because they got remarried, not because her A was 8 years ago. But simply because he betrayed her. That is reason enough to be upset.

 

7) If he and she do not grow up a little and understand that they need intense MC and IC, your marriage will not heal. They should not have rug swept the first affair and they cannot rug sweep his affair.

 

Once OP starts to get out of the shock, she needs to take stock of her marriage and his attitude to decide if they can do what needs to be done to heal or get a divorce.

.

 

The WS can help of course, but the internal healing of self worth can only be largely done by the BS themselves. I did everything I could for my BS after he found out. It ultimately wasn't enough. He had to decide to do that work himself, with my support, in IC . For years.

[Mrs. John Adams]

.

 

The WS can help of course, but the internal healing of self worth can only be largely done by the BS themselves. I did everything I could for my BS after he found out. It ultimately wasn't enough. He had to decide to do that work himself, with my support, in IC . For years.

 

ultimately..we all have to make the decision for ourselves that our cheating spouse has done enough to help us to feel comfortable in the relationship again. For some ....this is more than others. My husband...for example ...needed to feel that i completely understood the pain I caused him ...why? Because if i understood his pain to the depths of my soul....I would never cause him that kind of pain again. He needed me to help him feel safe.

 

Others may require something different than he did....but regardless of the situation....the BS does need certain things from the WS in order for them to heal....if indeed the couple desires reconciliation....and only the BS can determine if the WS has done enough for them.

 

I am a firm believer in mutual healing....The more remorseful I have become...the more my husband trusts me. The more he trusts me, the more he lets go, the more he lets go, the closer we become, the closer we become, the more he helps me do the work.

 

Could he have healed on his own? Not if he remained married to me....he certainly could have worked on himself....but to repair our relationship required something from me.

 

I do believe in self improvement....and ultimately that helps in dealing with relationships. But in our case....it required not only individual understanding and healing....it required mutual healing of each other as well.

 

Perhaps...the ops husband never achieved the healing he needed from his wife's affair. Perhaps...she never gave him what he truly needed....

 

Two wrongs do not make a right....he still is responsible for his own affairs...regardless of the reasons he may have validated them in his own mind.

 

This couple needs to pursue a line of communication that gets to those inner most needs and hurts and insecurities. until they do...they are simply at an impasse and the damage can never be repaired.

[BluesPower]

I disagree Katie and I don't want to be a fly in the ointment. I completely agree with Mrs. Adams. I think you way your and you husbands affairs worked out must just be so different than my wives and mine did.

 

We were young when she cheated, twice, I should have divorced her there but I loved her and we had kids so I stayed. But she did nothing to help me heal in anyway. In fact she just went deeper into her "Hidden" drug addiction.

 

So years after all that I started cheating, a lot, and for the most part I felt no guilt about it. In some ways I still don't. But I can say that her cheating first just made it so easy to cheat when I had enough of her behavior, which turned out to be the drugs.

 

What is happening now that she is sober is she is helping me heal from her affairs and all the pain cause by her addiction. I may not heal form all of it time will tell.

 

But I can say that there would be no possibility of me healing from any of it if she was not loving me and helping me to deal with the pain. I would stand no chance.

 

Do I work on myself, you bet, and it has helped a lot. But I could not do any of it if I did not feel the love and support from her. If I did not feel the care that she gives me and the gentle touch. I would not stand a chance.

 

So that is what I see as the difference that between what I am going through and what OP and her husband are going through.

 

I would have been far easier on her to say, "I messed up with my addiction and my affairs, but I don't have it in me to be there for you, sorry".

 

The fact is that even if it does not work out, I know that she decide to do everything she could do to help me heal and become somewhat whole again.

 

I am not sure if that makes any sense to anyone, but it is how I see it.

[katielee]

Blues I'm not sure why you disagree with me. It sounds like we're on the same page. I turned myself inside out to be there for him for 1.5 years until he cheated himself. I was in no way still in my addiction.

I still tell him how sorry I am. I still tell him how great he is. Yet, he has to actually ACCEPT the fact that he's great. I can't do that for him. He has to do that himself. I still maintain that the work to heal anyone rests mostly on their own shoulders.

 

If you have FOO issues (say abuse) you can't blame any of the decisions you make as an adult on them. You have to get to a place to you know that how you were treated had nothing to do with you but are about the ppl who abused you. Your worth is not dependent on their actions. That is the internal work im talking about.

Edited November 27, 2016 by katielee

[Mr Blunt]

By Deeply Hurt

Yes he says he still loves me and always has-he just made some stupid mistakes.......I do love him

 

Those are just words and are not enough to get a lot better.

 

As Mr. JA said “The challenge is to make it past the affairs and move on with your life.” You are NOT going to make it past the affairs with just words; you will need ACTIONS!....As I said in my previous post, you BOTH have to forgive each other and yourselves…That is just for starters. Mrs. JA has the gift of going into great detail to help with infidelity so I am going to borrow from her posts. Mrs. JA had an affair then her husband Mr. JA had a RA and then they have had a successful marriage.

 

By Mrs. John Adams

Both people are harboring resentment and placing blame instead of addressing the issues

Communication, honesty, transparency, therapy, and TIME are key ingredients to healing...and both partners have to be willing to do their part in helping each other to heal.

I am not hearing that either partner in this particular relationship has done their part or is willing to do their part

I have forgiven myself for my behavior....but I will forever be ashamed of what I did.

Cheating on a spouse is shameful...but it certainly can be forgiven.

we have two broken people....that have had many years of unresolved issues that have compounded into even more destruction.

They both need professional help....whether or not they are able to reconcile as a couple.

the blame game at this point is completely irrelevant. The damage has been done....and at this point they need to be figuring out how to repair that damage or to cut their losses and move forward without each other. But they both need professional help...whether they stay married or not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blunt to Deeply Hurt

To the extent that this forum can help you with your marriage crises, the above information and some of the other posters have given you enough for you to start making progress one way or the other.

 

 

I hope that the reason that you have not responded in the last two days is because you are starting to take right ACTIONS!...I am not discouraging you from posting on this forum but I am telling you that unless you BOTH take some of the actions as mentioned your marriage is doomed.

 

You can make your life a lot better with the right ACTIONS but just talking is not enough!

 

 

You can forgive yourself even if your husband does not....By you taking the right actions you can have a good life with or without your husband.

[Deeplyhurt30]

I understand completely what the majority of people are saying on here. By far it takes effort from both people. I have forgiven myself for my past. I think in a lot of ways i have been way too hard on myself, continuously thinking I am not good enough.

 

My husbands main argument is that the last two years I have argued with him too much (although almost every time has been about something not looking right at his work with the other woman) he told me he just cant take any more of the disagreements---however sometimes i feel his definition of arguing lately is stating things that he doesn't want to hear.

 

I dont want to argue about the past anymore. I want to work together and make it through all of this. somehow, someway.

 

We have agreed that we are going to give recovery our all and see how things go. deep down there is so much hurt and just hope that this was not a long term affair or something that is still going on. I am trying to put all of that aside during this time to help ease tensions.

 

I understand what he is asking of me , and I just want him to understand what i need from him as well.

[understand50]

I understand completely what the majority of people are saying on here. By far it takes effort from both people. I have forgiven myself for my past. I think in a lot of ways i have been way too hard on myself, continuously thinking I am not good enough.

 

My husbands main argument is that the last two years I have argued with him too much (although almost every time has been about something not looking right at his work with the other woman) he told me he just cant take any more of the disagreements---however sometimes i feel his definition of arguing lately is stating things that he doesn't want to hear.

 

I dont want to argue about the past anymore. I want to work together and make it through all of this. somehow, someway.

 

We have agreed that we are going to give recovery our all and see how things go. deep down there is so much hurt and just hope that this was not a long term affair or something that is still going on. I am trying to put all of that aside during this time to help ease tensions.

 

I understand what he is asking of me , and I just want him to understand what i need from him as well.

 

Deeplyhurt30,

 

Well good luck. Reconciliation is hard, but you know that. I think, your husband will have to understand just what pain he has caused, or remember he pain from your past faults. How to go about this is something you both will need to figure out. I tend to relay on communication, "talk" at set time, where things brought up are only disused then. The rest of the time, we work on connecting and reestablishing a good relationship, knowing that our grievances will be aired at a later time. Worked for us, but each couple will be difference. Our big issue, was there was no money for IC, or MC. So we had to overcome that by ourselves.

 

This thread has been long on debate, and short on advise. My own to you , is that your past affair, did not, has not, given him leave to do this, and that you should not beat yourself up over this, or think that you deserve this. Do not let him make this excuse. He must own his actions, as you did.

 

I wish you luck, and hope for the best for you....

[BigQuestion]

I am new to this forum and to the program, but I have chosen to take the path to working on the recovery of my marriage. Every day seems to confront me with a new obstacle-whether its within myself or with my spouse. We have been together since we were 15 years old. That is half of our lives already. There is not a memory that comes to my mind that does not somehow involve us together. I understand that I know no one here but honestly feel as though just getting all of this out will somehow bring huge relief.

 

Everything started 8 years ago when I myself had an affair with a co worker. My first mistake was letting someone of the opposite sex become a close friend. The friendship lasted for about 6 months until it developed into a more personal attempt. At the time I was very young and immature- and I made some very regretful decisions- I had an affair. Needless to say my husband and I divorced. After 3 months of sorting through and working things out, we decided to remarry and continue a new life together. I was very open with him (gave him access to everything and worked on building the marriage we both wanted). As soon as we were able I even quit my job.

A year after leaving my job, we had our first child. The experience was so amazing and I remember how happy we were for such an amazing blessing. 3 more years passed and then we had our second child. life could not have been more happy. we were happy.

Two years after our second child was born, my husband began a new job. It was a few months in when changes began-he started making comments about us spending too much time together or not wanting to have lunch together anymore. I immediately sensed a change in some of his actions, but he continuously denied. Right around this time, he introduced me to a female co-worker . There was a group of us girls who began hanging out and exercising together (at the time i was a personal trainer). She and I, along with a couple of other girls even went to out of town events together. There was always something about her that I questioned due to certain actions on her part- but everytime i would bring up anything to my husband he would simply tell me he thought I was over reacting or looking too much into things. Another red flag came when he all of a sudden asked me to stop hanging out with her. (she was an older woman who somewhat lived a "single" lifestyle- there were certain events i also witnessed with other men where I could see wasnt good for me to be around). I honored my husbands request. As time passed I had a gut feeling that there was something going on between the two. Over and over again, for two years , we would argue about these feelings and he would make me feel as though i had done something wrong or that i was obsessed with trying to make him hate her. the constant arguing during this time only seemed to make us drift away, but we continued to remain married.

Three weeks ago, he finally admitted to me that they had slept together 4 times before the time of him encouraging she and i to hang out. they still work together. there is still email contact (shes a receptionist) and meetings where they are both present. i was furious and so hurt that he would wait until two years later to tell me all of this-let alone let me be around her too.

My husband has taken the initiative to tell me all the details, he seems truly regretful , but there are times i feel he wants to just not talk about it anymore. In a way its almost like to that since I did something 8 years ago and he forgave me- thats what he expects too. and just start over. Is it wrong for me to think that the pain is worse because we are at a different time in our lives (6 years after remarrying, asking for gods forgiveness, having children together). he tells me the affair had nothing to do with what i was doing at the time- but that things in the past he feels did contribute to his curiousity. he tells me all that matters to him now are me and the kids. I have told him that i think the only way for us to truly move on is for him to leave his job. I feel horrible because 7 months earlier he was promoted to manager and we have been financially better than we ever have. He told me the affair has been over for 2 years but the guilt was driving him crazy. there is just still alot of hurt present and some days i feel i worry myself to death because he is still in the same environment with her only a few offices away. its almost like torture. how can he be okay with communicating with her or being around her in the same room?

 

Wow. First of all, I've gotta salute you and your husband for going through all of that together, even with all of those huge obstacles that would take people like me out in an instant.

Second of all, I've gotta give you my condolences, because honestly, you're not going to get through this in one piece. Sure, you two might make it through together, but it's definitely not gonna leave you unchanged.

 

Yes, you cheated on him (or so I assume, since you said you two were married starting 15 years ago, and it all happened 8 years ago). Now something like that leaves a huge stain on the relationship, and the other person. Yes, you made a mistake, and even though neither him nor I are looking down on you for it (or maybe it's just my assumption that he never looked down on you for it; it would help if you clarify this one). However, this doesn't mean that it never happened. Here's what I would've felt like if something like that would've happened to me.

If I had a gf, the perfect girl, the girl of my dreams, who meets all my requirements and keeps me very happy, but ends up cheating on me and regretting it, I would definitely feel a lot of pain. It would shatter me into trillions of pieces. It would destroy every fiber of my being on finding out that the girl I love, gave everything to and based my life on, was even attracted to someone else, let alone got physical with them. It would definitely put an asterisk on the word '*love', and maybe it would just fade away. However, I won't be able to break up with her, because I would be too attached to her, way too much in love with her, and not being with her would cause me a lot more pain, or at least that's what I would think at the time. So would I stay in a relationship with her? Yes. But would I be happy at all? No, my life would be worse than death.

 

Anyways, sorry for rambling away. But as you can see from my ramble, an incident like that leaves a stain that doesn't fade away overtime, and it's effects can be drastic. Now your husband and you got divorced, but you two got back together, and now he did the same thing with you.

So, lesson number one, is now you truly get to feel exactly how he felt when you did that to him. So, that's an experience, and most definitely one that will shape you into a better person.

Lesson number two, is that two stains don't cancel each other out. They will be there forever. Sure, you can cover them up, by playing make-believe and pretending that you two have always been faithful to each other, but somewhere at the back of your head, that stain will still be visible. You can try to overlook them, but at least a small part of you will always be in pain due to this incident.

 

So, considering that you two have built a lot together around your marriage, including a family, that obviously complicates things. Of course, none of this is your children's fault, and if you two get separated, they may go through a bad upbringing, which they do not deserve. So, ask yourself this question. Do you love him enough to not feel pain and to forgive him for doing this? And tell him to ask himself the same question about you. If the answer is mutually yes, and if you two really mean it, then yes, you two can get through it together.

However, if even one of you says no, or both of you say no, then it's clear, you two can't be together. That doesn't necessarily mean that you two have to get divorced though. If you really love your kids, you can still stay in a loveless, open marriage, so that your kids can still have their parents together, and you two can fulfill your romantic and sexual needs from other people. I know, it sounds bizarre, and even I feel it's bizarre. But, if you really love your kids, you might consider doing this so that they don't suffer due to mistakes that the two of you made.

 

Last, but not least, please keep us up to date with what happens, if you feel comfortable doing that. It's not because I want to intrude in your personal life or anything, but it's because I genuinely care about you and your husband, at least enough to take 30 minutes out of my day to respond to this. So, it would feel good to know what the final outcome turns out to be. However, please do not do it if you aren't comfortable with it.

[katielee]

So, considering that you two have built a lot together around your marriage, If you really love your kids, you can still stay in a loveless, open marriage, so that your kids can still have their parents together, and you two can fulfill your romantic and sexual needs from other people. I know, it sounds bizarre, and even I feel it's bizarre. But, if you really love your kids, you might consider doing this so that they don't suffer due to mistakes that the two of you made.

 

.

 

I really question this advice. So the parents should be in an open marriage in order to stay together for the kids? Do you think the kids will pick up on that? Would you want that for YOUR kids? I wouldn't.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Just because both people in a marriage have cheated certainly does not mean an open marriage becomes an answer.

 

An open marriage requires trust...a whole lot of trust.

 

A damaged marriage has no trust.. it has to be rebuilt...

 

So I am not sure why some folks correlate infidelity to now being in an open marriage.

[Deeplyhurt30]

The question of why he told me is one that I wonder on. A couple of days after he told me, he told me that the other couple who was also having an affair at work had attention in them for always being in each other's offices. Now after learning details of the affair- my husband and the other woman both told me they were afraid of the other couple ratting them out too. So my husband also told me it was just time to tell me because of the constant arguing about situations at his work.

 

 

 

If we argued so much about this particular situation when in fact it was true something was going on- should he really be making that big of deal about the arguing??

[Deeplyhurt30]

My husband says he wants to move on together

[Noirek]

My husband says he wants to move on together

 

Does this mean no more holding your affair against you and you can get a job?

 

Or does this mean rugsweep his affair and go on as is?

[Jersey born raised]

Good question Noirek.

[Deeplyhurt30]

his reasoning for me not working is that "he really enjoys me being able to be there for our kids during the day". I have talked to him about it possibly helping me to get out and be back doing something I enjoy, just as he likes his job. I have told him the only way i feel like we are going to be able to move on is for him to get another job. he is asking me to trust him staying there because of him being so young and having the position he has (he just got this position about 6 months ago. ) he is not her direct boss but he is over a different department. however there is still times when they would have to communicate (working on company website, attending employee meetings, and email communication about i.t. support (my husband is the companys i.t.manager) we are only 29 and 31 so yes i am very proud of his accomplishments, however--her and him still at the same workplace is not something I think I can deal with.

 

 

i feel like for both of us to move on, there are going to have to be changes-and i think I should be given the opportunity to return to work if that is what I would want to do.

[katielee]

I agree with you DH.

I'm not sure how this would be any different if you hadn't cheated first. You both deserve to feel safe in your relationship.

[Deeplyhurt30]

im having such a hard time with the fact that his affair was during the time of him wanting me to hang out with her. We hung out that whole summer. just the fact that he put her in my life is heartbreaking. and riding in her backseat during a trip. where they had done something.....

[DKT3]

I agree with you DH.

I'm not sure how this would be any different if you hadn't cheated first. You both deserve to feel safe in your relationship.

 

How it would have been different? One will never ever know. I can say from my own experience, cheating never seriously crossed my mind until after I found out she cheated.

 

DH, you don't really need his approval to work, in fact what you HAVE to do (since your marriage is shaky at best) is simply inform him that you WILL be returning to work.

[katielee]

im having such a hard time with the fact that his affair was during the time of him wanting me to hang out with her. We hung out that whole summer. just the fact that he put her in my life is heartbreaking. and riding in her backseat during a trip. where they had done something.....

 

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Something I had to get over is catching my husband on top of OW#2. I had to have EMDR therapy to get over that. I wonder if this is an option for you?

You will have to heal this heartbreak whether you stay with him or not though.

Hugs to you!

[harrybrown]

So sorry for your pain.

 

I do hope you get some help.

 

you could try affair.recovery.com You can find them online.

 

your H should step up to the plate and go with you to counseling.

 

How would he like you working with your AP?

 

did you ever tell him the why of your A?

 

Good luck to you and your kids.

[BluesPower]

Let's sum up husbands stuff...

 

Here are the issues that I am seeing with husband's behavior:

 

1) He was on dating site and talking with other women. Now he could have just been testing the waters or not.

 

2) He told wife about affair before it got blown up by someone at office. Not as good and option and just confessing.

 

3) Over all, he seems to be rug sweeping his affair and her affair that neither of them have really dealt with.

 

4) Doesn't want to "argue" about it. He should at this point have nothing to argue about with his wife about his affair. Her opinion trumps his in this respect. What she wants she should get and that includes him leaving the job if it comes to that.

 

5) Overall, I just don't think that the H is really being honest about everything. I am not saying that he is still seeing her but a lot of his comments are shady.

 

I am thinking that you guys have to get in front of a counselor that specializes in infidelity. He has to reign his "Demands" which at this point, since his affair is the freshest, he does not have the right to demand anything.

[Jersey born raised]

I want to take a moment and revisit the history of infidelity in your marriage. Without minimizing your adultery in the least, his is worse because he knew from first hand experience what it would do to you, yet he did it anyway.

 

You want to work, then work but be honest with the question of why. Is it to detach or personally grow? Is it because you no longer feel safe or believe in your marriage? Those are real and legit reasons so embrace them without rubbing his nose in them.

 

This link might help you set up a path forward http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/576217-there-responsibilities-bs-reconciliation. It is one of the most thoughtful posts I have read.

[kckc]

OP, I've got an impression that you blame yourself for your husband's affair. Please don't do it. The past is past, your affair could affect your husband but using it as an excuse it's bad. This was his choice and you can't blame yourself for it, he knew what he was doing.

 

Now, here's a little more harsh part - you and your husband didn't really work through your issues, like most of people here said, you just swept it under the rug. That's why there always be issues with your marriage, if he won't truly forgive you and forget.

 

If you want your marriage to work - go counselling now, you two should be very honest with each other, no lies, just truth and if he can't give you that - why to continue something that won't ever work again?

 

You both betrayed each other, intentionally or not - it happened. Nothing will ever be the same but it doesn't mean it can't be better.

 

I still wonder why your husband didn't tell you about what he's done for two long years. He's not honest with you, I'm 99% sure about this.

[Jersey born raised]

The hard part of dealing TT is figuring in the affect of cowardness vs lying to keep the adultery and taking the adultery underground. Either way it is a losing bet. Every time a TT comes out it is a new DDay worst then the last.

[road]

I want to take a moment and revisit the history of infidelity in your marriage. Without minimizing your adultery in the least, his is worse because he knew from first hand experience what it would do to you, yet he did it anyway.

 

You want to work, then work but be honest with the question of why. Is it to detach or personally grow? Is it because you no longer feel safe or believe in your marriage? Those are real and legit reasons so embrace them without rubbing his nose in them.

 

This link might help you set up a path forward http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/576217-there-responsibilities-bs-reconciliation. It is one of the most thoughtful posts I have read.

 

 

 

Being a BS first then becoming a WS after is not worse. An RA is the BS needing to self medicate themselves from the pain of the first affair that their WS brought into the marriage. For many a BS their mind gets so messed up after their WS's affair that D day will leave them mentally messed up for decades after D day.

 

 

Not a right or wrong or even black and white.