feed up with the vicious circle

[hb1974]

I'm new here been reading alot of threads trying to figure my situation out and make sense of everything.

First the history my wife and I have been together since high school, 25 years we have been married for 20 years 2 kids daughter 17 and son 14.

 

Well it started 4 months ago me my wife and daughter got into a argument about who was driving home my wife and i had been drinking i had 3 because i planned on driving home well my wife had too many and said i couldn't drive long story short there was alot of screaming and yelling at each other my daughter grab my arm and pulled on it out of reaching i pushed her away from me then all hell broke loose from my wife. I ended up walking 4 miles home at 11:00 that night needles to say i was upset when i got home and yelling between wife and i continuded well next day we both gave each other cold shoulder i left came home to a note that she couldn't be in the house any more and moved in with her parents.

 

since then she has come up with all sorts of things that i have done going back years and blaming me for it all

I admit i wasn't the most attentive and now that i look back i see things that i should have caught but i can't change that.

So we are doing the mc we have been 4 times now and it seems like it just gets worse each time we go my wife won't talk about anything unless it with the mc

Wife says she wants to work on us but i am not sure it just seems to me nothing that i am doing or trying is making a difference she is seeing her own ic not sure if that is helping or not.

 

My question is when we talk or try to work on something it becames thee blame game and it just goes in a circle back and forth i have tried to stop it and move forward but she seems dead set on proving that its my fault and concentrates on proving it instead of coming up with a solution.

any sugestions on how to handle issue constructivly we tried at mc but it turned into a 2 and 1/2 hour blame each other sesion.

 

I love her and want to make it work she keeps saying its going to take time.

I'm not sure how much time i have left

 

sorry for the long post

[LancasterAmos1966]

my wife and I have been together since high school, 25 years we have been married for 20 years 2 kids daughter 17 and son 14.

 

First, I'm sorry you are facing this situation. I too was married for 20+ years, and my wife chose to walk out a few years ago. I feel your pain and your strong desire to reunite with her.

 

Many couples divorce but many reconcile too. So there's hope.

 

So, she moved out --- that means it is very serious. And if I'm correct, it seems like she has been gone for 4 months. If true, that's a long time for her to miss you or not miss you.

 

 

It's too late to go back and change anything. Accept the blame for whatever you did wrong, but please, be very careful taking all the blame.

 

 

I'm only responding to what you have written, BUT, it is very possible that your wife will continue to blame, blame, blame. You will offer to make change after change after change ---- then, after trying for awhile, you won't be able to do what she wants. That COULD be because she wants you to get sick of her, and file divorce. Some spouses want out of a marriage, but won't file divorce. I'm not saying this is the case, but it's something you want to keep in mind. My wife has been gone for 4 years, and refuses to file divorce.....so it does happen!!

 

 

Here's a problem that I see: 4 marriage counseling sessions in 4 months is not much at all. I'm surprised you aren't doing it once a week.

 

 

 

 

any sugestions on how to handle issue constructivly we tried at mc but it turned into a 2 and 1/2 hour blame each other sesion.

Don't beg her.

 

Don't threaten anything --- don't threaten to divorce her, don't give her a cut-off date to get this resolved.

 

Ask her for a list of items that you must do in order to fix your relationship. If you are ok with those changes, then begin to work on them.

 

I'd suggest going to the counselor faithfully.

 

Hopefully you are going to the same counselor -- even if you go at separate times -- that is still ok. That way the counselor can feel the situation out from your wife's perspective and help you proceed in working on goals.

 

 

 

I love her and want to make it work she keeps saying its going to take time.

You want it to work.....but she MUST have the same desire that you have to make this marriage work.

 

It takes 2 to make a marriage.

It takes 1 to end it.

 

Quite frankly, she has the upper hand right now. She moved out, so it's obvious that she doesn't "need" you right now.

 

You want her in your life.....you "need" her. You might want her so bad, that you are willing to become a doormat. That's not good. It's ok to make changes in your life that will please her, and make you a better husband. But again, be careful of her demands.

 

The counselor told me to not reconcile with my wife until I could learn to live alone, without her. So if my wife ever returns, at least I'm now able to live without her.

 

If I were in your shoes, I'd focus less on getting her back, and I'd focus more on myself --- I'd work on enjoying life while she is living at her parents.

 

Don't be calling/contacting her too often.

 

Don't do it with a cocky attitude, but since she has already moved out, I'd suggest that you begin to prepare yourself to not having her back in your arms.....and if that thought really hurts, then you are just being normal.

 

I'm guessing she began to detach a few months ago, maybe a few years ago. That's how she can move out and not yearn to be back in your arms.

 

You are still attached, and this is when the "left-behind" spouse might begin to beg, get angry that the process is too slow, feels lonely, abandoned, etc. Instead of feeling like that, do what the counselor said to me: Learn to live without her AND enjoy it.

[LastAcorn99]

I’m so sorry about your situation. I hope you and your wife can go beyond the blame game and work towards rebuilding your relationship soon. Sending you prayers. Hang in there!

[Marc878]

All MC's are not created egually. Find another one it doesn't sound like the one you are going to is making any progress.

[hb1974]

LancasterAmos1966, thanks for the advice.

the wife does want to work on the relationship she says she wants it to work

she has given me a list of things that need to change and i am working on that more for myself than her to become a better person. my wwife comes over at least 5 times a week and we have a date night once a week because thats what the mc has asked us to do i think she really wants it to work out. I just get tired of the vicious circle the hot and cold spells, example it had been since shee moved out since we made love we talk about it and 2 weeks ago we had a great weekend together things where back to normal we made love twice that weekend and things where going good i thought we where talking loving on each other and then one night while we where talking about what we took away from a marriage class that we take once a week total different then counseling i told her how i felt about her response and things turned quickly within 5 minutes she went from loving and rrespectful to cold and bitter and know we are back to the point where she is scared of me and wants to fight about everything.

 

One of my biggest problem is my wife has a expectation of what my relationship should be with my daughter which has also moved out and is staying with her, my daughter say i don't love her and has bascicly shut me out she is very stuborn and we are alot alike in our attitudes and that causes problems between us my wife wants my realationship fixed with my daughter before she comes home i have tried but my dughter has shut me out. basically i feel like the expectations are unreasonable from my wife.

 

 

 

i guess i just need to vent

[LancasterAmos1966]

Venting here is good, so do it whenever you feel like it.

 

To me, that is a VERY good sign that your wife visits you often and you have a date night. I was under the impression she did not see you for 4 months. So, with that information, I believe she is sincere. I could be wrong, but it looks better.

 

The daughter problem should be addressed by the counselor. And hopefully the daughter goes too!! She is part of the equation so your wife should realize the importance of the daughter being on the same page.

 

Another thought is that her parents might be happy she moved back home. She can be a big helper to them in their older years.

 

Just a word of caution. I mentioned you could make multiple changes but never do good enough.....there's always another "area" you need to work on before she can reunite. I sense that could be true with your wife but she moved out, so there must have been a lot that was bothering her.

 

Not to sound negative, but I just don't feel good about your wife demanding a perfect relationship with her daughter. Kids can sabotage a relationship/marriage for various reasons, so if your wife is truly sincere about reuniting, she will make sure her daughter goes to mc.

 

The hot/cold acting from your wife is normal from someone in her situation. She moved out, then connects with you --- she then realizes it is going too quickly for her. So she gets cold again.

 

In my opinion, your marriage will not go back to what it was. She won't allow it.

 

I don't know if her reasons are justified or not, but she moved out once, she'll easily do it again. For your own emotional health, you really should work on the marriage goals but also make sure you are learning to live without her.

 

Don't be a couch potato. Get up and get moving. Don't be a doormat or a puppy dog wagging your tail at the window waiting for her to return home.

 

Learn to make home cooked meals, make a batch of cookies, do your own laundry, go out without telling her where you are going, make plans for Christmas to visit friends/relatives, etc.

 

Do some different things -- don't be in her face about it -- but begin to live without needing her and she will either make more demands for you or she will loosen up and realize she might lose you.

 

And please, do not be asking when she will move home -- that is pushing her and it's not healthy for you.

Edited November 25, 2016 by LancasterAmos1966

[hb1974]

Thanks

 

As for doing things for me i do all the cooking cleaning and laundry around the house i can definetly live with out her i can take care of myself that doesnt bother me.

 

you said don't ask her when shes coming home i brought the subject up in couunseling and the mc suggested we worked on a seperation plan which included what needed to change and a time for her return home.

 

as for her parents her mother is goinng in for hip surgery middle of the month so i know things are going to get diffuclt when that happens.

 

ther is alot of past history between myself and the inlaws father in law never realy liked me and they have taken advantage of me on some business deals that haven't set well with me which doesn't help the situation betwen me and the wife.

 

it's very hard for me i am a person who jumps in with both feet and does something no matter what. my wife is a planner and takes forever to make decisions i am having a hard time dialing it back and taking things slow.

 

my biggest problem is how to act after we have a discusion and we both get mad or upset she leaves and then next time i see her i don't know how to act

[Marc878]

As for doing things for me i do all the cooking cleaning and laundry around the house i can definetly live with out her i can take care of myself that doesnt bother me.

 

Marriage should be balanced at @ 50/50. Perhaps part of the issue is you do to much. Sometimes this causes you to be taken advantage of and lose respect.

 

Start living your life for you. You can't control or make someone else do anything but you can control yourself and your life.

[LancasterAmos1966]

 

As for doing things for me i do all the cooking cleaning and laundry around the house i can definetly live with out her i can take care of myself that doesnt bother me.

 

Ok, keep doing this. It will help you be independent.

 

When my wife walked out, it forced me to do things without her. And I have no regrets learning how to live without her. It's nice having 2 in the saddle, but I can do it solo if necessary. So good for you on being able to live without her if necessary.

 

 

 

 

you said don't ask her when shes coming home i brought the subject up in couunseling and the mc suggested we worked on a seperation plan which included what needed to change and a time for her return home.

Yes, this is the way it must be. The mc works with both of you. It's not good for you to be asking her -- that makes you needy and itchy to get her back.

 

Of course you want her back, but you DO NOT want her back if you must force her back with threats or ultimatums. You married her voluntarily, she married you voluntarily. And now that she has moved out, you want her to return 110 percent voluntarily.

 

The reason behind this is that if she returns a day too soon, she will soon pack her bags and leave again.

 

And let's not forget, you can turn this to your advantage!!

 

I'm not suggesting playing games. This is serious stuff. But she has made her move!! She moved out, and that is very, very serious to do.

Instead of acting all needy, I'd suggest backing off....way off.

 

Reschedule a date night if you don't feel like going, make her leave a voice mail instead if you don't feel like talking at that moment. And tell her that since you are arguing every time you get together, you have decided to take a break from each other until after the new year. (I'm not telling you to do these things, I'm just giving some examples that come to my mind.)

 

Again, this is not game-playing. That's what kindergarten kids do.

 

By her moving out, in my opinion, is like she is now forcing you to do everything she demands or she will not return.

 

I say that is nonsense.

 

And I can talk like this, because when my wife walked 4 years ago, I left her walk. And I have not tried to get her back.

 

I had a relative tell his wife that if she ever walks out, he is visiting a lawyer that afternoon -- and he said it right to her -- so you have proved that you want this relationship to work for the past 4 months, and yet the arguments still persist.

 

She did what she thought best -- she moved out.

 

And if you are tired of the arguments and drama and delay, then take action.

 

Just be prepared for her to file divorce.

 

 

 

 

 

as for her parents her mother is goinng in for hip surgery middle of the month so i know things are going to get diffuclt when that happens.

 

ther is alot of past history between myself and the inlaws father in law never realy liked me and they have taken advantage of me on some business deals that haven't set well with me which doesn't help the situation betwen me and the wife.

She is their daughter --- they are going to give her advice on how they feel about you. So, she is being pulled in multiple directions.

 

BUT, if she truly loves you, she will come to her senses and realize you are her husband, best friend, companion, lover, etc.

 

 

 

 

it's very hard for me i am a person who jumps in with both feet and does something no matter what. my wife is a planner and takes forever to make decisions i am having a hard time dialing it back and taking things slow.

Dial it back, and she will notice. Once more, this is not a game, but you must not come across as needy for her. Be the loving husband that gives her all the time she wants....but get on with your life.

 

She must have the desire to return AND you must want her back. The longer she delays, the less likely you will want her back.

 

I'm 100 percent against divorce, so I won't ever suggest that route. If you want to go that route, there will be others that can give much advice on that topic. I believe in "until-death-do-us-part" but I am also a firm believer in letting go of the spouse that wants to leave.

 

I'm not suggesting you become like me, no way. I'm just letting you know that my comments might seem like I'm pointing towards dumping her. No. I'm just wanting you to stand tall even when you lose your spouse.....and for right now, you have lost her.

 

 

 

 

my biggest problem is how to act after we have a discusion and we both get mad or upset she leaves and then next time i see her i don't know how to act

The more you let go, the more you will hate arguments and drama.....and she will notice your laid back attitude.

 

If my wife and I ever reunited, I'd tell her the FIRST time she starts any drama or arguments, we are roommates for 6 months!! That is how disgusted I am with drama. It's a waste of my life, and I won't tolerate it.

 

You are walking on egg shells right now, and that is a horrible place to be.

 

She is trying to control you right now. She knows she has the upper hand because you want her, you want the companionship, you want the bedroom time. So she can move out, she can stall, she can miss holidays, she can make demands and you are frustrated because you can't get her back into your arms.

 

The arguments can be a good sign that you are still connected.

 

And the arguments can be a bad sign that your wife wants to frustrate you enough to say you are done --- and then YOU are the bad guy for ruining the marriage. It's sad, but this could be the case.

Edited November 25, 2016 by LancasterAmos1966

[BluesPower]

Obviously you two have huge commination issues. And that is what MC should be for at that start.

 

If you are both working on the relationship, then MC will be very difficult at the start. So you have to keep at it, and it can take a while so don't get discouraged.

 

It is important that both of you read up on codependency and marriage communication, love languages and all of that. All the research that you do and all the things that you learn on your own will help you with the marriage counseling.

 

Also, the alcohol related stuff is just that, you guys may want to slow down on that a little. Basically anything that happens when your are drinking is kind of null and void because you are drinking, even 3 drinks.

 

Second, as a man, you really need to try and get in touch with your feelings and emotions. Sounds kind of wimpy but it is good for you and your wife. And I know that as men we stuff things down and move past them, but at some point the come back to the surface.

 

My wife and I have had some horrible arguments at MC and really it is the best place to do it because it is safe and you have the counselor there to mediate.

 

And look, the emotions for you and your wife will be triggered at MC because it is a safe place to "Feel" them. But for men, this stuff hurts. Emotions suck frankly, I don't want to feel them but I know that I have to because that is the only way to get them out. It just sucks.

 

The more "open" and honest you can be with your emotions with your wife, the better you will be able to understand how she really feels about your marriage. And frankly, to some extent, they really dig it when we show our emotions at a deeper level. Not anger, that is a surface emotion, they want to see our sadness, our hurt, how we feel disrespected and unloved. When they realize that we feel unloved and sad it breaks their hearts and they feel bad for us an want to comfort us.

 

It should be the same for you toward your wife. You don't always have to understand it, and for the most part you won't, but you need to be able to "Feel" how she feels about it and show that part of yourself. They just love that stuff.

 

I got to tell you that all the touchy feely stuff really does suck for most men, it make us feel weak. But the truth is actually the opposite. By learning how to be in touch with our emotions and understanding our wives emotions, we actually become stronger and wiser men.

 

I really is kind of funny how this stuff works.

[hb1974]

Thanks for all the inciate

I kniiw we have comunication issues and so does she i am more willing to try and sit down and try to work on things to fix them and she isn't willing to try i don't know how long she has been trying to tell me things that i have missed in the past looking back at things we had a rough patch about 6 years ago financialy and had to file bankrupcy i'm in construction and the economy was crap and one thiing lead to another at the time she wasn't working because she went back to school to finish her degree she has told me that she felt responsible because she wasn't working that just came out in the last 2 months so i have a feeling she is holding alot in and drawing on the past.

We where talking earlier today and she said she was scared of me i validated her felings and told her i seee she is andd asked if could explain it more to me she then told me shee ddoesn't know if i can control my tempar she gave me a reason she said i lost it and beat the dog one time now the time she is refuring to happened 4 years ago anid i was sitting on the floor playing with the dog and he turned and bit me and not in the playful way so i smacked the dog grab him by the back of the neck and rolled him over onto his back and held him down basically to show him who was the boss.

 

It just blows my mind that she can take something from 4 years ago and act as if it happened yesterday and i do it all the time

 

Not sure on anything just gonna start living my life the way i want to and take it one day at a time.

[LancasterAmos1966]

 

It just blows my mind that she can take something from 4 years ago and act as if it happened yesterday and i do it all the time

 

The problem is, she is the one that is convinced of your "crimes." It doesn't matter if you disagree. She wants you to admit it -- and that is where you must be very careful.

 

You will be apologizing for waking up breathing.

 

I might be exaggerating, but again, bringing up old stories is a way to cut you down to the size she wants you to be. That's why I said your marriage will never be the same it was. She won't allow it.

 

If you raise your voice, maybe that is violent in her book, and she'll move back home.

 

 

 

 

just gonna start living my life the way i want to and take it one day at a time.

Once you are both on the same playing field emotionally, maybe she will stop the blame game and work on truly reuniting.

 

If she wanted to reunite, she would have done it 100 days ago --- but its' now been 120 days that she has been gone, and you don't seem any closer.You found this forum, and started your post with "fed up with the vicious circle"

 

I'm not saying everything she wants is wrong.

 

But if she wants to work on the marriage, it's very difficult to do it while you are dealing with the loss of her.

 

You are in a position to admit to anything and everything. You have no leverage. It's now all about what she wants, and you have no say.

 

But as you let go emotionally, you will begin to enjoy life without the drama.

 

And then, one day in the near future, you will stand on level ground with her. She won't have anything to use against you.

 

If she comes home, great.

 

If she never comes home, that is great too.

 

Once you have that attitude, she will notice, and will either file divorce or seriously work on reuniting.

 

That's my humble opinion.

[BluesPower]

Well if you guys cannot do MC then there is little hope that you will work it out.

 

Talk to her again about MC and if she says no, just go ahead and file for divorce.

 

The anger thing, it is real for them and they fixate on it. My wife brings up things about my temper from 20 years ago.

 

In some ways it is real for them and in some ways it is used as an excuse to be dissatisfied with us. What it actually has to do with is codependency, they are uncomfortable with allowing us to feel the way that we feel so they are "scared" of us.

 

If she does not want to go and stay in MC despite how hard it can be, just move on.

 

You two will not work out your issues without help, guidance and learning on both of your parts.

 

Good luck...

[hb1974]

my wife wants to do counseling and we have been counseling just seems to make it worse but she is dead set on that is the only way we are going to fix things.

 

i have question for the ladys if the would respond me and wife talked today she admitted that things are from past and she didn't bring them up she was scared id be mad or not love her wwe talked more she said she wanted things to work out and she is trying but she said she is scared and her stomach gets in nots when she is around me is this normal or is she over us and not wanting to let go.

[Formerfiveo]

I'd say this is normal and a good sign because she is being honest and open with you. If she didn't want to work things out, she wouldn't be communicating with you.

 

Does her fears have any basis? Was there a time in the past 20 years where she was honest with you and you were possibly less than supportive?

 

I'm impressed at your self awareness and desire to work on yourself - no matter who it's for. Keep it going! Wishing you and your wife the best.

[hb1974]

that is the problem she has never said anything in the last 20 years she has kept it in because she told me she was affriad i wouldn't love her i feel she is holding 15 years and i have to make up for them

[hb1974]

So I'm back well its been a wild 4 weeks or so doing the mc thing it was going great me and wife were getting along good things seemed to be moving in the right direction she still wasn't back home she said she need things in place like plans for financial, work/home,dealing with extended family, and our daughter

so of course i want to sit down and try and talk it out we tried talking about our daughter in with mc all that turned into was a big cluster the counselor said she was just gonna give us the tools to figure it out well the wife only wants to talk about things in counseling this is driving me nuts because counseling is every 2 weeks not fast enough for me long story short we tried to talk finances the talk went good we where both happy with what we had acomplished until the next day she said something wasn't right she didn't feel heard so we sat down and talked about them again lest just say it didn't go well she was pulling away asking about all the what if what if this and that i got upset and said it seemed like she just keeps adding to the stipulations on us getting back together. well we had 2 bad days and ended up she said she was done working on us and needed her space i said ok i asked what that ment she said she wasn't running out to see a lawyer she didn't now what it meant well today she tells me she wants us to work and loves me but she wants to just be friends and try and rebuild the realationship from that point she said was friends was a a call once in a while hear and there i'm not willing to go back that far and start over i feel she has another agend with this i don't know am i being unreasonable not to want to go to just friends talking once in a while?

[BluesPower]

You need to file dude...

 

By now she has a BF somewhere if she was not cheating before.

 

She is not really working on the marriage. I had my wife do this crap to me where she would change her mind every 15 minutes about what her issue was.

 

So she probably has someone that she thinks "MIGHT" work out and you are sitting around with your pud in your hands. And not she wants to be friends, that is the kiss of death.

 

You really need to wake of a file for divorce.

[Mr. Lucky]

By now she has a BF somewhere if she was not cheating before.

 

hb1974, don't know whether this is true or not but you at least have to accept the possibility. Hope for the best, plan for the worst. You should be checking any cell phone, text, email, social media and/or financial accounts that are shared and you have joint access to. You're obviously looking for patterns of communication with unfamiliar numbers or people and unexplained expenditures.

 

until the next day she said something wasn't right she didn't feel heard so we sat down and talked about them again lest just say it didn't go well she was pulling away asking about all the what if what if this and that i got upset and said it seemed like she just keeps adding to the stipulations on us getting back together.

 

Is she willing to put any of this in writing, at least an outline of some bullet points? Hard to see how progress could ever be made if the target keeps moving.

 

As BluesPower has pointed out, you might need to file to get her to take you seriously. Right now, she obviously feels she can keep you in limbo as long as she wants. Keep posting...

 

Mr. Lucky

[BaileyB]

Your wife doesn't know how to fight fair, obviously. She really needs to work on her communication skills.

 

It's not fair for her to bring up past hurts and disappointments, but the fact that she continues to do so tells you that there is an awful lot of anger and frustration built up.

 

Hopefully, the marriage counselling will help. At a certain point, she needs to stop blaming and accept the responsibility to build a better future together - if that's what she wants.

Edited December 23, 2016 by BaileyB

[hb1974]

I don't know we just talked again I'm just so confused

she said we need to go back and start as friends i asked what that meant she said calling couple times a day talking on phone and then coming around .

i told her i didn't trust her that there was someone else she said there wasn't and she wasn't trying to replace me my first thought was she wasn't trying to replace me because she already has. but her family is religious.

she said she wanted to more stuff as a family so i offered to take her and the kids to the zoo today to walk around and see Christmas lights she said god told her not to go i'm not saying anything about religion i believe there is something bigger than us out there just saying as to the possibility of BF.

she says we need to build the trust back anybody ideas my idea is move your but home act like we are married and make the best of each day but she says she can't because of the trust I just don't see any end in sight

[Marc878]

Check your phone bill. Go online takes 15 minutes

[BluesPower]

She is just out there...

 

And religious people cheat on their spouses all the time.

 

And could you please use some paragraph breaks in your posts so we can read it easier.

 

Why does she need to build trust with you, have you cheated?

 

I really think that she is stringing you along here.

 

With out a doubt she has someone else buddy, you need to check in to that.

 

I think your marriage is really done.

[hb1974]

I haven't cheated,

She says she doesn't feel safe around me shes not valued or appreciated

by me. I just assumed that was what she meant by trust

 

As for checking into things i have talked to lawyer i have it all set up

she moved out 5 months ago and switched her cell phone to her own plan

I have gone threw a years worth of phone bills house and cell that i could check i din't find anything to indicate another man.

 

I guess I am to stubborn to let it go yet

[BluesPower]

Well, maybe she is not but she sounds like a woman trying to decide between two men. And you really don't know what she has been doing for 5 months. I find it hard to believe that she has not gotten laid at all, she would be like one in a million if she had not.

 

You do what you want, but here is the deal. She either wants to be with you or not buddy, that is the way that it is. By not making a decision, she is making a decision.

 

If you want to be in limbo that is your choice but I think it is a poor one.

 

The only way that you can move forward in life is to file for divorce and serve her that papers. That will force her to make a decision, and frankly I don't that that decision is going to be for you. I am sorry.