Why can some women not forget the past?

[guest569]

With female feelings at the forefront n combination with your scorecard system how is a guy ever at an advantage? They are at a disadvantage. It's not equal.

 

All this going back and forth... not any of the female have justified this one sided score base system as right nor wrong.

 

There is no 'one sided score base system'. Males who feel that it is 'one sided' are more than welcome to develop standards, boundaries and self respect and kick their partner to the curb. You do not need to stay in a bad situation.

[Frozensushi]

A male friend of mine had this happen to him. He was always the most calm person to be around. But a new girlfriend managed to infuriate him to the point where he'd be yelling. This was so unlike him. She was bad for him and he needed to leave.

 

This same thing happened to me. I'm a very level-headed person. The only time I get excited is when discussing some philosophical topic with my friend. My Ex pushed buttons in me I didn't even know I had. It caused me to act irrational and become irritable. I hated feeling like that.

 

I agree that our partner should bring out our best, not make us feel uncomfortable in our own skin.

[guest569]

It's not the bad moments that break the relationship, it's the bad attitude. I really hated hearing him say: why can't you just forget and move on?

 

Love is an attitude. It's about caring about the well-being of the other person's heart and soul. Any statement of 'why can't you just forget and move on? ' is the opposite of love. It is conveying this message: I don't care how much I hurt you; I just want you to relieve me of the consequences.

 

Precisely my experience too.. It's dismissing the other person's feelings and making them feel like they are overreacting. Basically a 'like it or lump it' attitude. Hard to move past that.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

My ex listened to me, but did not show any understanding because he became defensive. Although we would say "ok" and embrace and go and do the grocery shopping, it did not mean that I had forgotten the issue and was not concerned about our future together. He hadn't taken responsibility for his actions and he thought his behaviour was acceptable. He did not acknowledge my feelings. He believed that the issue was resolved and that he would continue hurting me in the same way (this has all become a lot clearer with hindsight). He believed that everything was great simply because we had not broken up. As the relationship went on, and his hurtful behaviour continued, I was certainly taking note. Not out of pettiness, out of concern that the relationship was not going to work. Eventually, after more of the same..there was the last straw.

 

It also had no correlation with the level of love that I have for him.

 

I have also found the "things must be fine because we haven't broken up" mentality to be common as well. I think it goes back to the general men vs. General women view of breakups. Women are "done" when they break up, so they are more hesitant to do it when there are issues. For many men, they won't take the issue seriously unless there is a breakup.

 

Probably the biggest conversation that made headway with my husband was the one where he said "oh yeah, if it's all so bad why haven't you left yet?"

 

And then I felt free enough to say "I'm sick of having to lose and lose and lose because of choices I didn't make. Generally, society would tell me, divorce and run like Hell, but the truth is, all I keep hearing is " lose more." "Lose half the time with your kids, lose the block you live on where our daughter is so happy with her friends because it isn't economical to rent this much space, lose money to spousal support and possible child support, lose half your stuff, lose whatever is left of your marriage because despite it all you still actually love your husband and like his company. Just keep losing. And in fact, open yourself up to a world of pain trying to date, watching your husband date, watching your kids suffer through a step-parent parade and knowing your husband won't deal with divorce well at all so get ready for a ton more conflicts."

 

It registered after that.

 

I find most women will often "tough it out" as far as they can reasonably go. And then other women will treat guys like toilet paper.

[basil67]

Let me point out an example. Your boyfriend doesn't like that a new friend that is being very close to you. He is jealous by this guy. Eventually, an argument begins. You tell him he is being over reactive and you both resolve the argument eventually.

 

As a women. You have not resolved this scenario. You have simply kept 'score' and the man thinks the problem is resolved and feels that he should take his gf out for dinner because he feels remorse that he was the starter of the argument.

 

If the guy in this hypothetical has serious concerns for good reason about the too close friend, he's foolish to forget it. He may let the argument drop at the time, but he should remember it so that he can see if there is a pattern emerging with her behaviour. You cite it as a positive that he lets go and moves on - but in this particular scenario I'm seeing a guy who's a doormat.

 

Anyway, the thing about remembering old issues is that it helps a person to gauge compatibility. Has the issue been fixed and gone away never to return? Or is it an issue which will keep rearing it's head because of someone's behaviour choices? How do we know the answer to these questions if we forget things which have gone wrong?

 

Most couples have a few 'agree to disagree' issues. However, if you have TOO MANY agree to disagrees, then the relationship starts to become untenable.

[guest569]

If the guy in this hypothetical has serious concerns for good reason about the too close friend, he's foolish to forget it. He may let the argument drop at the time, but he should remember it so that he can see if there is a pattern emerging with her behaviour. You cite it as a positive that he lets go and moves on - but in this particular scenario I'm seeing a guy who's a doormat.

 

Anyway, the thing about remembering old issues is that it helps a person to gauge compatibility. Has the issue been fixed and gone away never to return? Or is it an issue which will keep rearing it's head because of someone's behaviour choices? How do we know the answer to these questions if we forget things which have gone wrong?

 

My ex was the woman in that scenario (i was upset about his close relationship with another woman). I wasn't willing to forget it. I noted it and he repeated the behaviour. We kept discussing it. Nothing changed. You make these observations in relationships and keep your eyes open. It all depends on how the other person handles it I guess. How they respond and, as you said, whether or not the pattern continues. Damn important. By forcing ourselves to forget (or to somehow genuinely forget something that has hurt us deeply? ??) would just set us up for failure.

 

After all, a lot of examples raised here are not petty little things like the toilet seat being left up, or he didn't compliment a new hair style. We are talking about issues, arguments, hurtful words or even abuse. Serious incompatibilities. Things that we have to seriously evaluate and pay attention to. Things that are the "make or break". It's not a juvenile score card or some sort of game. I don't think that turning a blind eye will be beneficial to anyone involved. If there are people who genuinely do not care about these things then they are not respecting themselves.

[dreamingoftigers]

No....it's society that does this and becomes natural habitat so it seems natural.

 

Let's be honest if your having an argument and you cry.

Your feelings are hurt.

 

Does that mean the man is not equally hurt?

 

No it doesn't mean that.

 

So when men see this crying the man quickly adjust to this and the argument is now at the advantage of the women. If the man continues its abuse?

 

Personally, if SOMEONE is crying and the other person starts shouting more and more, that action is a form of abuse. Take a break or switch tactics. No-brainer here.

 

If the woman is screaming at him when he's trying to be reasonable, that's no better. Freaking right out at someone until they cry is crappy behaviour to begin with. There's watsof addressing ISSUES without crying the other person.

 

 

So in reality by theory... if a man is equally hurt and is not crying it's not abuse.

 

Read what the definition of abuse is.

 

 

What i said earlier was that IN MY EXPERIENCE, men who claim that crying is manipulation generally turn out to also be abusive.

[Sweetfish]

I suggest you actually READ the whole Psychology Today article, because it was all about how and why we all cry, including many references to crying men.

 

It doesn't show any evidence of women crying to "manipulate" other than one sentence where it says that it is one way that men perceive it.

 

Which actually goes directly with what I said earlier, so thanks for the link. I check out the others when I get a chance.

 

 

I actually did read the link I post prior to posting them.

 

I know what links i posted and why. If you want to extract only what you see that fits your point of view that is fine. That was specifically show that crying CAN be used to manipulate and some women do use crying not only to express being hurt, but also anger. Men have no mechanism to express hurt..usual he give the quiet treatment, tries to be logical, or he is a screamer and if he cries all the time when his feelings are hurt.. both me and you know he is not on your top attractive guys list.

 

The double standards is high in here. I have no problem being the black sheep.

 

 

If you believe going back into the past on issues that were suppose to be resolved months or years ago is fine. Good for you.

 

If you keep a tally of all the wrongs someone does even if they sincerely apologize for reasonable things. Yup that's healthy. Go for it.

 

If you want to devalue your husband or boyfriend because he doesn't fit your fairy tail persona more power to you.

 

My friend is a police officer and women either use crying or offer sex to get outta trouble.. but apparently the verdict in here is... "oh well, I can only speak for my self" noooo women don't do that that.

 

So guess what? I'm wrong. There is no generalizing of men and selective individuality between the female gender in this thread. I'm wrong and I apologize.

 

If there is an argument and the women cries the man is abusive. Check! You know I re-read the thread and truly sorry for not seeing these points.

 

I will now keep a diary and note every bad thing my S.O. has done.. every tick means I love her less. When we get into a heated discussion I will randomly throw in her face some guy she talked to a this party that I've been grudging since the last Christmas party.

 

Because it's a good judge of compatibility.. noted!

Edited November 27, 2016 by Sweetfish

[Frozensushi]

If you believe going back into the past on issues that were suppose to be resolved months or years ago is fine. Good for you.

 

If you keep a tally of all the wrongs someone does even if they sincerely apologize for reasonable things. Yup that's healthy. Go for it.

 

If you want to devalue your husband or boyfriend because he doesn't fit your fairy tail persona more power to you.

 

 

My current Ex was the first woman I dated to tell me directly she was keeping a mental list of every infraction, even if it was minor. She even told me that with each one, she loves me less and less until one day she won't want to be with me anymore. I tell you, that hurt really bad. Here I am, just letting all her bad behavior slide and she's telling me I'm well on my way to losing her.

 

She was also the first woman I dated that, whenever we got into a fight, wouldn't be upset about the current issue, but something that happened weeks/months prior. That really annoyed me. It's like she manufactured the fight to drag up something I didn't even know she was angry about.

 

She was also the first woman I dated who told me Disney princess movies really screwed up her expectations of men. This was the response she gave when I told her I felt her expectations of me were way too high. Guess you have to give her props for being honest.

 

I truly thought this mind frame was unique to her, I'm shocked to learn it's a common thread between woman. It's quite disheartening, to be honest.

 

The mental checklist is truly unfair as the person gets to silently judge you. Man, all those times I woke up cranky, little did I know I was racking up breakup points.

[basil67]

 

I will now keep a diary and note every bad thing my S.O. has done.. every tick means I love her less. When we get into a heated discussion I will randomly throw in her face some guy she talked to a this party that I've been grudging since the last Christmas party.

 

Because it's a good judge of compatibility.. noted!

 

You're taking it out of context.

 

My husband gets drunker than I like a few times a year. And in front of the kids. Yes, I remember it. My memory doesn't have holes. It doesn't make me love him less. We don't get into heated discussions. And I don't bring it up because in the grand scheme of things it isn't a problem.

 

However, if he got drunk in front of the kids frequently, or he did a whole lot of other different things which I found to be too much combined, it would then be a matter of compatibility.

 

It's not so much score keeping as awareness of whether or not there are too many issues.

[basil67]

My current Ex was the first woman I dated to tell me directly she was keeping a mental list of every infraction, even if it was minor. She even told me that with each one, she loves me less and less until one day she won't want to be with me anymore. I tell you, that hurt really bad. Here I am, just letting all her bad behavior slide and she's telling me I'm well on my way to losing her.

 

She was also the first woman I dated that, whenever we got into a fight, wouldn't be upset about the current issue, but something that happened weeks/months prior. That really annoyed me. It's like she manufactured the fight to drag up something I didn't even know she was angry about.

 

She was also the first woman I dated who told me Disney princess movies really screwed up her expectations of men. This was the response she gave when I told her I felt her expectations of me were way too high. Guess you have to give her props for being honest.

 

I truly thought this mind frame was unique to her, I'm shocked to learn it's a common thread between woman. It's quite disheartening, to be honest.

 

The mental checklist is truly unfair as the person gets to silently judge you. Man, all those times I woke up cranky, little did I know I was racking up breakup points.

 

Sushi, this woman thinks your ex was someone best to be avoided! Don't ever let a heap of bad behaviour slide x

[basil67]

Personally, if SOMEONE is crying and the other person starts shouting more and more, that action is a form of abuse. Take a break or switch tactics. No-brainer here.

 

If the woman is screaming at him when he's trying to be reasonable, that's no better. Freaking right out at someone until they cry is crappy behaviour to begin with. There's watsof addressing ISSUES without crying the other person.

 

Do you know what would be a defuse for both of these situations? For the person who's caused the offence to say "I hear you" "I understand". Most of the time, a person gets to the point of crying or shouting because they felt like they aren't being heard.

 

That said, if your partner is crying or shouting and you think they are being totally unreasonable and they won't listen to you, it's a red flag.

[guest569]

My current Ex was the first woman I dated to tell me directly she was keeping a mental list of every infraction, even if it was minor. She even told me that with each one, she loves me less and less until one day she won't want to be with me anymore.

 

That is really messed up. Sorry that you went through that. That doesn't even sound like love to begin with. Ugh.

[Blackened Heart]

This was definitely a very strong occurring thing in my previous marriage. My ex-wife would bring up the most obscure and long forgotten things during an argument that for the life of me I couldn't even remember ever happening. Half the time I wondered if she was just making the stuff up just to win the argument.

 

I will admit though there were a few things in which she did that I never forgot and it did build up resentment in me deeply. It was in a sense an aftereffect of her keeping the marks and all the bad. After an incident happen of trust being broken by me (not infidelity), thing had gotten better over a period of two years.

 

After the two years, we had a big argument and she brought up how she still didn't trust me. That very statement stayed with me for very long till the end of the marriage, which wasn't long after. If after two years she was still going to hold onto what occurred and still not build trust, when not having given her any reason not to trust me, what was the point of all this I thought. I didn't want to living with someone who would never be able to trust or doubt me, or rather, always go to her mother's side instead as the final word and in trusting, instead of her own husband. This was compounded much more due to the fact that she didn't get along with my parents, and despite me internally agreeing with my parents, I stood by her side and choose her over them. But when it was the other way around, mommy came first to her.....

 

Sorry, didn't mean to rant but I am so glad to be out of that emotional spiral of hell of a marriage.

[Sunkissedpatio]

My current Ex was the first woman I dated to tell me directly she was keeping a mental list of every infraction, even if it was minor. She even told me that with each one, she loves me less and less until one day she won't want to be with me anymore. I tell you, that hurt really bad. Here I am, just letting all her bad behavior slide and she's telling me I'm well on my way to losing her.

 

That sounds pretty immature and manipulative to threaten to love someone less because you are keeping tabs of every offence they commit.

 

How old was your ex if you don't mind me asking?

 

Having said that I can see the sentiment though and know first hand what it feels like to feel numb and question whether you still love someone when they have deeply hurt you by saying something they know was way below the belt, and that not only they did once but they do repeatedly because they know it is going to really sting. That is abusive.

 

 

She was also the first woman I dated that, whenever we got into a fight, wouldn't be upset about the current issue, but something that happened weeks/months prior. That really annoyed me. It's like she manufactured the fight to drag up something I didn't even know she was angry about.

 

My ex did that a lot. It drove me nuts and at times it was so shocking the things I would come to find out because we initially had a misunderstanding that started off with why something was said a certain way that lead to something about how he criticized how I had handled something last time we were out with my family. WTF?! Not only did not know that was an issue I barely remember the incident he locked away in his brain to criticize me about at in a fight.

 

He was also notorious for letting me think I was ok to let my guard down and tell him things in confidence that left me in a vulnerable position and months down the line in a fight he would bring that up to use it against me to humiliate me. (this mostly started when he went on his antidepressants which caused him to change for the worse and made him callous and really mean when fighting)

 

that's fighting dirty. I started to fight dirty too over time and one of the main reasons I am in therapy because I never EVER want to go back to being that way again. It was a first for me, it it was brought on by this relationship dynamic and something I desperately want to fix in myself before I enter my next relationship.

She was also the first woman I dated who told me Disney princess movies really screwed up her expectations of men. This was the response she gave when I told her I felt her expectations of me were way too high. Guess you have to give her props for being honest

.

 

Oh brother, that's lamest thing a person can claim to justify their relationships standards. Again, she sounds quite immature.

 

 

The mental checklist is truly unfair as the person gets to silently judge you. Man, all those times I woke up cranky, little did I know I was racking up breakup points.

 

Again, the mental check list for most women is the list of actions or words that were so hurtful they erode the trust. For me it was like that. And there is some truth to the fact that over time you do start to question if the person is right for you or if they even really love you, or you love them.

 

 

My husband gets drunker than I like a few times a year. And in front of the kids. Yes, I remember it. My memory doesn't have holes. It doesn't make me love him less. We don't get into heated discussions. And I don't bring it up because in the grand scheme of things it isn't a problem.

.

 

That may not be a good example then. Surely there must be something he's done that sits on that list that has caused wound that if re-opened would bring out that item placed on the list. If there isn't then you are very lucky, or you just don't act on it. Which is what I had suggested earlier.

 

It isn't so much what resides in that mental slate but what we do about it when pushed hard enough.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[basil67]

That may not be a good example then. Surely there must be something he's done that sits on that list that has caused wound that if re-opened would bring out that item placed on the list. If there isn't then you are very lucky, or you just don't act on it. Which is what I had suggested earlier.

 

I don't act on it. Raising past, unrelated wounds is totally out of line when you're dealing with a new issue.

[basil67]

This was definitely a very strong occurring thing in my previous marriage. My ex-wife would bring up the most obscure and long forgotten things during an argument that for the life of me I couldn't even remember ever happening. Half the time I wondered if she was just making the stuff up just to win the argument.

 

I'm glad you're out of that marriage too.

 

This is a perfect example of what NOT to do in an argument. It's essential to stay with the topic in hand and make sure to listen to your partner. The listening does of course go both ways.

 

For what it's worth, I've read female posters who say their men also raise past issues when in an argument. I'm not convinced it's a totally female thing.

[basil67]

Question to the men: Do you forget every bad thing your partner has done? If so, how do you get to the point of deciding that you're better off out of the relationship?

[Frozensushi]

That is really messed up. Sorry that you went through that. That doesn't even sound like love to begin with. Ugh.

 

Thank you, I appreciate it. Hmm, it doesn't sound like love, does it? Trust me, I was speechless. I didn't know how to respond to something like that. Who would, right?

 

That sounds pretty immature and manipulative to threaten to love someone less because you are keeping tabs of every offense they commit.

 

How old was your ex if you don't mind me asking?

 

My Ex is 35 years old. She made a lot of passive aggressive comments like that, without even batting an eye. The thing is, she just didn't see it as being hurtful. She justified it all. The few times I did stand up to her about it, she'd act shocked and it would cause a fight, then she would need 'space' for a week. Then after we made up she never wanted to talk about it, so all our issues went unresolved. After a while, since it happened so often, I became convinced I was a horrible person and every accusation she made against me must be true. Right? Right?

 

I realize now I was being manipulated. She was very convincing, though.

 

Oh brother, that's lamest thing a person can claim to justify their relationships standards. Again, she sounds quite immature.

 

Looking back now, yes, she was very immature. There were so many things that came out of her mouth that had me going 'WTF?'. Things I've never heard anyone say, especially to the person they supposedly love.

 

I understand about continued bad behavior and it is important to have boundaries. I would never want to hurt someone continually. Especially if I love them. I believe self-awareness is important. But, I do have some male friends who are completely oblivious to the pain they cause their SO. I try to point it out to them and they just blow me off. It makes me angry.

[Frozensushi]

Question to the men: Do you forget every bad thing your partner has done? If so, how do you get to the point of deciding that you're better off out of the relationship?

 

No, not everything. I'd say, personally, it's the big things like infidelity or something that seems highly inappropriate.

 

For example. Last Xmas my Ex gave me one present, a painting she made 'signifying our love'. I told her how wonderful it was and how much I loved it. I thanked her up and down. She then said, "I'm so happy you like it, but one thing, though, if we ever break up, I want it back".

 

That really hurt and I just wanted to tell her right then and there "You know what? I don't even want it now". But I just smiled and said, "okay". That stuck with me like bubblegum on my shoe. I just could not believe she would say that to me.

 

Oh, and in case you are wondering, yes, the painting is back in her possession.

 

I personally don't carry around resentments. I try to give someone the benefit of the doubt. But sure, everyone has a breaking point. If a relationship becomes super toxic, I certainly would be considering my future.

[Woggle]

I noticed with my ex she could say the most hurtful things and call me every name in the book but the few times I fought she never let me forget about it and held it against me. God I am so glad to be out of that marriage.

[elaine567]

I am a bit surprised at how shocked, irritated, indignant or angry some men are over the fact that a woman may be keeping score over perceived misdemeanours and hurts.

What do they expect? That a woman will just forget or ignore bad behaviour for ever and a day?

No-one sensible and intelligent is going to get hurt over and over again and just accept that, of course they are going to remember, take note and put it away for future reference.

Unresolved issues in particular tend to fester and are brought out at appropriate times ie during other arguments.

Ignore those at your peril as they are Important with a capital I for your continuing relationship.

 

No-one is entitled to a relationship, people stay in relationships because they are basically happy with their lot, and the day the happy/unhappy balance tips, is the day the relationship is doomed to fail.

Everyone has a tipping point.

[BlueIris]

Different people consider different things "big things."

 

One of the most damaging things someone can do is disregard or discount their partner’s boundaries or standards for behavior in a relationship whatever those standards might be. If a couple doesn’t share or respect each other’s standards the partnership won't survive and it shouldn't.

[dreamingoftigers]

Do you know what would be a defuse for both of these situations? For the person who's caused the offence to say "I hear you" "I understand". Most of the time, a person gets to the point of crying or shouting because they felt like they aren't being heard.

 

That said, if your partner is crying or shouting and you think they are being totally unreasonable and they won't listen to you, it's a red flag.

 

It CAN be. Someone like my father would say " OH YEAH SURE YOU HEAR ME." And then just keep yelling.

 

If you apologize to him he says "SORRY DOESN'T CUT IT."

 

Some people just like to run others down to boost themselves up no matter what.

 

A phrase I found best described the situation is "when someone can't control their own emotions and behaviour, they try to control the emotions and behaviour of others."

 

And some people don't control themselves at all.

[dreamingoftigers]

I am a bit surprised at how shocked, irritated, indignant or angry some men are over the fact that a woman may be keeping score over perceived misdemeanours and hurts.

What do they expect? That a woman will just forget or ignore bad behaviour for ever and a day?

No-one sensible and intelligent is going to get hurt over and over again and just accept that, of course they are going to remember, take note and put it away for future reference.

Unresolved issues in particular tend to fester and are brought out at appropriate times ie during other arguments.

Ignore those at your peril as they are Important with a capital I for your continuing relationship.

 

No-one is entitled to a relationship, people stay in relationships because they are basically happy with their lot, and the day the happy/unhappy balance tips, is the day the relationship is doomed to fail.

Everyone has a tipping point.

 

 

Yes, the bolded is exactly what they expect.

 

"I don't want to deal with it. You deal with it, plus this other crap I am going to pile on top of it."

 

I think most men would have said "oh, this is coming up again because it's not resolved for her? How can we resolve it then? What makes the most sense here?"

 

But the ones that keep wanting to avoid it and shovel the blame back on the offended partner just get louder on loop.

 

Three stages of this:

 

1. Charm

2. Self-pity

3. Rage

 

Those who don't want to gain any insight or take any responsibility will cycle through these.

 

I see a lot of outrage and self-pity in the thread.