Improbable Romance [UPDATE: Is "Stop" the Only Response?]

[wmacbride]

Stop, please. Just stop.

 

Are you really think it's okay to buy a gift for the son of the married man you are seeing? How do you feel about him calling his mistress ( you) while his son is in the house?

 

this is not an open marriage, and if he is as charming as you say, who's to say he hasn't gotten people convinced you are just a friend?

 

I know that right now, it feels like you may not care, but remember, you have been in his wife's shoes. Sooner or later, that is going to kick you in the rear. You will have to face what you've done, and if you are the person you portray yourself to be, you may not like what you see.

[CuriousQD]

OK... so i have some questions...

 

 

 

 

was this before or after you met the son...? if it was before - why did you buy a gift for an unknown child and how would the two of you explain that gift to the child and his mother...?

 

Before. He wasn't unknown exactly. We'd talked a lot about our children, so I felt I knew him. We had had a number of convos about my son's love of tablets, and so that is why I bought it. We agreed that the gift would be from "Francois." Not me of course, and that's why I was upset he ripped the packaging open because I expected him to wrap it for Christmas.

 

 

 

understandable & Francois seems like an incredibly reckless and irresponsible father. going-with-the-flow type of guy.

Harsh, but not entirely inaccurate. Possible explanation: he called me while I was driving. I told him that I had dropped my kids off at a birthday party. He may

have heard that as I was taking my kids to a birthday party, as in they were about to get in the car. I think he may have assumed we were going to have a G-rated conversation, because when I said something naughty, he looked puzzled and asked me where my kids were. That's when I asked him if he was home alone, and he pointed the camera toward his son who was eating at the kitchen table. The son was far enough away that he shouldn't have heard what I said earlier. But...after he introduced us, the son came closer and I started talking to him, he actually handed the phone to his son so we could talk. I was at a loss for words at that point. I didn't know what was going on.

 

 

it's not a good idea, at all. but you'll probably go anyway. question: how come you didn't ask all the Qs folks usually ask after the A is discovered? you know... what happens with his marriage, what happens with the two of you, how will he arrange a meeting if the BS is (i assume) suspicious and the situation is tense...? there are so many Qs people usually ask and you didn't really ask any of them. it's like ignoring the huge elephant in the room - why is that? you aren't interested or at the very least curious about his plans for the future?

 

Of course I want to ask those questions -- of him. But we've not been communicating like usual. As I said, his words were that he didn't want things to change between us. To be exact, I told him after so long a time had passed since we talked, I assumed it was time for me to move on. He got very upset about that, and said no, absolutely not. The question I did ask was whether I would be safe, does she know what I look like. He assured me it would be okay, but again we didn't talk long in either of those calls. I had been insisting that we have a long detailed conversation, but he said everyone was in the house all the time. He also said in another conversation that that time on holiday was spent trying to "make up." I didn't want to ask for details, but I kept insisting on a long talk to get everything out in the open. His last text on the subject was, "It's all good now, but they saw it all let's talk about it tomorrow when everuone is gone. No life lost, stop worrying." That convo happened days later and was very short because I was on the way to work, and it happened because his wife had gone to the gym.

 

 

The part I left out was that in the initial confusion, when neither one of us knew what was going on with the tablet, he had been thinking I did all of this on purpose, but he didn't know that my account information had been changed and I thought he had his wife in my account so I was just as upset as he was. That's when he realized I hadn't done this purposefully. So this huge misunderstanding happened, and I think it's drained a little enthusiasm for both of us. I guess I know deep down the thing that made this so dangerous and exciting is now gone and I'm deeply moved by how upset he was over disappointing his son that I feel like things can never be like they were. We've texted a few times but he's ignoring the elephant as much as I am, but again, it's just not the same.

[CuriousQD]

Stop, please. Just stop.

 

Are you really think it's okay to buy a gift for the son of the married man you are seeing? How do you feel about him calling his mistress ( you) while his son is in the house?

 

this is not an open marriage, and if he is as charming as you say, who's to say he hasn't gotten people convinced you are just a friend?

 

I know that right now, it feels like you may not care, but remember, you have been in his wife's shoes. Sooner or later, that is going to kick you in the rear. You will have to face what you've done, and if you are the person you portray yourself to be, you may not like what you see.

 

I know I must.

 

I tried to do something nice. I also got his aunt a small gift too for all her hospitality.

 

He may have called me a friend to a lot of people, but I doubt anyone I've been introduced to would believe it's just a friendship.

 

I did think about how his wife must feel. A lot. I definitely went back to those days, and -TMI: at the time I had gotten into my ex's mistress's computer and saw all the things she wrote about her feelings about me. And I remember coming away with this feeling like although she felt bad about me being hurt, she was so in love with my ex that she wasn't willing to stop. That's not exactly how I feel...but it's close. I do not want to rip him from his family and start a new life. I just want the thrill and truthfully, I want to believe he really cares about me.

[aileD]

But is all that worth helping destroy a person who did nothing to you?

[HeCantBreakMe]

I know I must.

 

I tried to do something nice. I also got his aunt a small gift too for all her hospitality.

 

He may have called me a friend to a lot of people, but I doubt anyone I've been introduced to would believe it's just a friendship.

 

I did think about how his wife must feel. A lot. I definitely went back to those days, and -TMI: at the time I had gotten into my ex's mistress's computer and saw all the things she wrote about her feelings about me. And I remember coming away with this feeling like although she felt bad about me being hurt, she was so in love with my ex that she wasn't willing to stop. That's not exactly how I feel...but it's close. I do not want to rip him from his family and start a new life. I just want the thrill and truthfully, I want to believe he really cares about me.

 

But you know he doesn't right? He only cares about himself and he is addicted to the way you make him feel. It is really very hard for me to believe any more that someone can truly care about the person they are having an affair with. Affairs by nature are so selfish .. and maybe someone can prove me wrong but I am coming away with the fact that the person doesn't really care about you as a person only the way you make them feel.

[minimariah]

Harsh, but not entirely inaccurate. Possible explanation...

 

the fact that he even contacted you while being with his son in the same room is troubling: he seems like a REALLY reckless dude. makes me think that this isn't his 1st A & he knows nothing will really change with the discovery day so he's nonchalant about the entire thing. also - i'm sure he felt super bad about hurting and disappointing his son... but that's not really enough. and it seems that his WORRY ends with that. i don't really find it odd that he still thinks your trip is a good idea; it's been a month or so, the wife is probably on high alert & suspicious... be SUPER careful. you don't want her to catch you together and it may very well happen if she decides NOT to believe his excuses and follows him or something along those lines.

 

...it's just not the same.

 

i think the fire will come back the moment you see him in person. it might look like it's gone NOW, due to the stress & lack of physical contact... but it will probably change to the way it was whe

[CuriousQD]

But is all that worth helping destroy a person who did nothing to you?

 

No. But like all selfish people, I thinking more about myself and him and what I want.

[CuriousQD]

But you know he doesn't right? He only cares about himself and he is addicted to the way you make him feel. It is really very hard for me to believe any more that someone can truly care about the person they are having an affair with. Affairs by nature are so selfish .. and maybe someone can prove me wrong but I am coming away with the fact that the person doesn't really care about you as a person only the way you make them feel.

 

Not sure I agree. Everyone gravitates toward people who make them feel good about himself. And this is NOT, repeat not, what I want, but some affairs do turn into long-term relationships and marriage. I have seen it, and so have you. They are sometimes very love-filled relationships. Not saying that's what I have.

[CuriousQD]

the fact that he even contacted you while being with his son in the same room is troubling: he seems like a REALLY reckless dude. makes me think that this isn't his 1st A & he knows nothing will really change with the discovery day so he's nonchalant about the entire thing. also - i'm sure he felt super bad about hurting and disappointing his son... but that's not really enough. and it seems that his WORRY ends with that. i don't really find it odd that he still thinks your trip is a good idea; it's been a month or so, the wife is probably on high alert & suspicious... be SUPER careful. you don't want her to catch you together and it may very well happen if she decides NOT to believe his excuses and follows him or something along those lines.

 

I'm positive it's not his first, too, but he was adamant last time I was there that his wife would leave him if she found out. I'm pretty sure he's quite affected by his wife's pain as well as his son's, but he's probably being guarded about sharing that with me.

 

And her high alert status is exactly what I'm nervous about, because I was to put it mildly stalking my ex's every move and recording everything he did on the computer and phone. I wouldn't have had the cojones at that point to confront if I ever caught them together, but I have no idea what his wife is capable of.

 

 

i think the fire will come back the moment you see him in person. it might look like it's gone NOW, due to the stress & lack of physical contact... but it will probably change to the way it was whe

 

You shouldn't give me hope. I'll run wildly with it. But you knew I would anyway, didn't you?

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

What on earth has happened to your moral compass?

 

The mistress interacting with the son? And buying gifts? Surely your rational brain can figure out just how inappropriate this is.

 

And now a DDay and you're still going back over? Haven't you done enough damage? Your 'fun fling' is destroying a family! Have you no sense of shame??

[minimariah]

And her high alert status is exactly what I'm nervous about, because I was to put it mildly stalking my ex's every move and recording everything he did on the computer and phone.

 

this.

 

& it's really the #1 reason why you SHOULDN'T go - protect yourself at all times.

 

You shouldn't give me hope. I'll run wildly with it. But you knew I would anyway, didn't you?

 

i wanted to warn you - it's better that you're PREPARED. honestly... the fire most likely didn't die, this is probably just temporary. i find it that, during this A, you bounce from being intimate to just having fun. you're buying gifts for his child, discussing child, getting to know his inner social circle... at the same time, you don't discuss any serious plans, the future, nothing. i think you're stuck somewhere between wanting to be carefree and just let it go and enjoy life AND your desire for love, intimacy and everything else.

[CuriousQD]

What on earth has happened to your moral compass?

 

Hell if I know. This is the last thing I expected of myself. I probably need to do a lot of work to figure out why I am behaving like this. It definitely started out as him reawakening me out of my doldrums, but I have practically no experience with casual sex so obviously I've fallen for the guy and don't know how to stop it and because he's so fantastic to me I don't want to.

 

The mistress interacting with the son? And buying gifts? Surely your rational brain can figure out just how inappropriate this is.

 

And now a DDay and you're still going back over? Haven't you done enough damage? Your 'fun fling' is destroying a family! Have you no sense of shame??

 

It was inappropriate, sure, but I most certainly did not ask for it or expect it. I had no idea it was going to happen and to this day I have no explanation for why he put his son on the phone. I think maybe he thought he could casually explain me away, maybe it had something to do with the tablet. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

I think I will know what I'm going to do about the trip when they start boarding. I have gone back and forth a million times. Sadly you'll despise my moral compass again. I know I can't go in Feb. or March because of work so if I don't go now, it'll be at least three months until I see him again.

[CuriousQD]

this.

 

& it's really the #1 reason why you SHOULDN'T go - protect yourself at all times.

 

 

 

i wanted to warn you - it's better that you're PREPARED. honestly... the fire most likely didn't die, this is probably just temporary. i find it that, during this A, you bounce from being intimate to just having fun. you're buying gifts for his child, discussing child, getting to know his inner social circle... at the same time, you don't discuss any serious plans, the future, nothing. i think you're stuck somewhere between wanting to be carefree and just let it go and enjoy life AND your desire for love, intimacy and everything else.

 

That's exactly right. Is there a name for this? Did you ever go through this?

[CuriousQD]

My backstory/disclaimer/biases/etc: []

 

I came here to be told to stop engaging in an affair with a married man. I invited "tough love" because I was struggling with the moral dilemmas of it and with acknowledging that I was "that type of person." My ideas may be changing.

 

It seems when people come posting here with a question or to vent, the most common response is always some variant of: stop doing it, it's immoral, it's not what it seems, cease all contact to get over it.

 

Is there more than that? It feels like such a complicated issue that maybe I'm missing the more nuanced conversation? What if someone is committed to staying involved even while knowing all the risks and acknowledging there's no future in the relationship? What if they want support to continue or nonjudgmental advice from someone who has done this for a long time? Is that allowed on this forum?

 

I guess deep down, I'm struggling with where my notions about infidelity came from and why they are so different from reality. I grew up in a Christian home so the Bible has been the source. I don't consider myself Christian and haven't for some time, but when I think about the teachings about sexual behavior it is soooooooooo out of touch with reality. Those thumping the moral issue the most are often the ones who are "cheating" the worst. What are the rules of human sexuality? Why is monogamy so hard? And how can you live outside of the cultural rules on it?

 

Bottom line: If you are respectful, play only your lane and manage your emotions and expectations -- just like you would for any other human activity -- is it really so wrong? And if so, why?

Edited January 23, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
threads merged; link to previous thread redacted ~6

[heartwhole]

I believe mistresses are more accepted in France so there may be something to what you're saying about his friends not batting an eye. I don't think that means this is some deep, meaningful relationship for Francois, but just something that you don't have to hide as much as you do in the US.

 

What if they want support to continue or nonjudgmental advice from someone who has done this for a long time? Is that allowed on this forum?

 

There's a forum called True Support that only allows people in affairs and which doesn't allow judgment of affairs. On LoveShack one does not need to be a participant in an affair, so all of the people hurt by affairs and all the people who generally believe they are wrong are participating as well. Thus, there is no "You go girl, here's how to have a great affair!" chorus.

 

Bottom line: If you are respectful, play only your lane and manage your emotions and expectations -- just like you would for any other human activity -- is it really so wrong? And if so, why?

 

Respectful of whom? Are you being respectful of yourself right now? Of Francois? Of his wife? Of his son? Are you playing "only your lane" right now, or trying to veer into someone else's?

 

If you want to read some rationale for why your Christian upbringing was wrong and monogamy is wrong and you are justified in what you're doing, it's out there. Just keep googling.

[VeveCakes]

It is detrimental to one`s health...and so when people are telling you to `stop`, it`s more likely for your own well being in the future.

 

Think about it, you are here because of a stress or bad situation of some sort. Why live your life putting your mind and body through this turmoil, when you could be engaging in healthy and fulfilling relationships without infidelity?

 

The choice is clear to those who are offering advice.

[angel.eyes]

Interesting how everyone assumes this happened in France/EU! Given how aggressive this guy was (a couple of words while standing in line with you and then he's all over you kissing you a few minutes later), I would guess this happened somewhere in the French Antilles (Martinique, St. Barts, etc.) It's astounding how uber-aggressive the men there can become with female tourists! Most women dismiss them out of hand. But as with any serial cheater, they know eventually someone will be charmed and swept away by their aggressiveness.

 

Regardless of location, the bad news is that while you've clearly developed feelings for him and think he's special, you're a fun foreigner/distraction (and not the only one) he sees on occasion. When things went sideways with your gift, he hunkered down with his family, not you. That tells you where his priorities truly lie.

 

Bottom line: If you are respectful, play only your lane and manage your emotions and expectations -- just like you would for any other human activity -- is it really so wrong? And if so, why?

 

I'm curious. How is sleeping with another woman's husband and upsetting their teenage son when he discovers your affair playing in your own lane? How is video chatting with your affair partner while their son sits behind him at the kitchen table respectful?

 

When you're in the midst of things, it's often difficult to see what's crystal clear to neutral outsiders who are not emotionally involved in your situation. They are simply trying to save you from wasted years and pain that you will look on later with deep regret. The other issue you're likely to face with this guy is STIs. Get yourself tested.

 

When a guy is all over you like he was when you had barely exchanged any words, it unfortunately isn't about you or your scintillating personality. He knew nothing about you. His chase was based simply on the fact that he sensed an opportunity. Players are good at sniffing out who might bite on their cheap lines. That's why he was unable to give you a straight answer when you asked him what it was about you that caught him.

 

As you yourself have pointed out, this has no future. Keeping him in your life has also made it impossible for you to be genuinely interested in other men...men who could offer you so much more than a monthly tryst. So your life (and your future) sit in limbo while you hang on to a man who has no interest in committing to you or making you his primary partner. And at some level, this is a moral dilemma for you. It sounds as if that's part of what brought you here.

 

Is the occasional tryst with a serial cheater overseas when there's zero future really worth sacrificing your values over. If you allow this to continue, it will do a number on your self-esteem and self-worth by the time everything is over.

 

Sometimes we listen to advice. For some, going through the painful life lesson, often with the attendant emotional scarring and baggage is what it takes. You will do what you want despite everyone's advice. Understand that we live with the consequences of our choices.

[CuriousQD]

There's a forum called True Support that only allows people in affairs and which doesn't allow judgment of affairs. On LoveShack one does not need to be a participant in an affair, so all of the people hurt by affairs and all the people who generally believe they are wrong are participating as well. Thus, there is no "You go girl, here's how to have a great affair!" chorus.

 

Thanks for the referral, and by no means was I looking for a cheering section. Just wanted to see if this experience was being discussed in other ways or with different perspectives.

 

 

Respectful of whom? Are you being respectful of yourself right now? Of Francois? Of his wife? Of his son? Are you playing "only your lane" right now, or trying to veer into someone else's?

 

• Everyone involved.
  
• Yes. I am putting myself first for the first time in my entire life. Obviously not an ideal circumstance, but the spirit of what I am doing feels very empowering. I reserve the right to correct the course as I go along.
  
• I've not taken anything from them, nor have I attempted to be in contact with them. Francois may have. I do not want to build a life with him.
  

 

If you want to read some rationale for why your Christian upbringing was wrong and monogamy is wrong and you are justified in what you're doing, it's out there. Just keep googling.

LOL, of course I have. I'm wondering who here struggles with these thoughts too and could speak on a personal level about it.

[CuriousQD]

It is detrimental to one`s health...and so when people are telling you to `stop`, it`s more likely for your own well being in the future.

 

Think about it, you are here because of a stress or bad situation of some sort. Why live your life putting your mind and body through this turmoil, when you could be engaging in healthy and fulfilling relationships without infidelity?

 

The choice is clear to those who are offering advice.

 

I appreciate that. I am certainly not trying to bring any physical or emotional health problems in my life!

 

But could I have a cheating-free relationship? Who do you know who has one? I can't tell you how often I've had these conversations with people swearing monogamy is possible, only to go down the list of all the married couples we know who hadn't experienced infidelity - and we were sure weren't lying. I have several male friends, and every one of them is a church-going husband. Every one of them has cheated. I piece together parts of my family history, my ex-husband's too, and infidelity is like a red line marking up the entire page. I've done this exercise with friends, co-workers and even complete strangers and the results are always the same. So who is it out there having a stress-free, infidelity free relationship and you're positive they're not lying or not being duped? I think we have our ideal and our actual, and they are not the same thing.

[CuriousQD]

Interesting how everyone assumes this happened in France/EU! Given how aggressive this guy was (a couple of words while standing in line with you and then he's all over you kissing you a few minutes later), I would guess this happened somewhere in the French Antilles (Martinique, St. Barts, etc.) It's astounding how uber-aggressive the men there can become with female tourists! Most women dismiss them out of hand. But as with any serial cheater, they know eventually someone will be charmed and swept away by their aggressiveness.

 

Ha! I was wondering if someone was going to notice I never said I went to France, only that his family spoke French. (But the other part is that they live in an English-speaking country.). It is of course beside the point. My very first reaction to him was definitely that this is something he does with as many tourists as possible. If I had stopped it at that first encounter, it would have been just a great story because of how quickly and sharply it changed me. But I had to drag it out.

 

Regardless of location, the bad news is that while you've clearly developed feelings for him and think he's special, you're a fun foreigner/distraction (and not the only one) he sees on occasion. When things went sideways with your gift, he hunkered down with his family, not you. That tells you where his priorities truly lie.

 

True. Can't argue any of this. I wouldn't ever know how many others there are, but this last time I asked him in a roundabout way and got a better answer. Instead of asking if he had cheated before, I asked him had he ever been caught before, he said no, but had had lots of drama with other women in the past. Details in my next post. The only thing I would say is I am not looking to be his permanent anything.

 

I'm curious. How is sleeping with another woman's husband and upsetting their teenage son when he discovers your affair playing in your own lane? How is video chatting with your affair partner while their son sits behind him at the kitchen table respectful?

 

I'm just as confused as you are. Your question implies I intended any of the parts after sleeping with a man I initially thought was single. These questions rest with him. Only he knew what he was going in all of this.

 

When you're in the midst of things, it's often difficult to see what's crystal clear to neutral outsiders who are not emotionally involved in your situation. They are simply trying to save you from wasted years and pain that you will look on later with deep regret. The other issue you're likely to face with this guy is STIs. Get yourself tested.

 

Excellent advice. There was only that first encounter that was not protected. That was totally reckless on my part. I did get tested, got Plan B and everything. As much as I am replying with disagreement, I sincerely appreciate the advice and counsel of everyone, including those offering the tough words I asked for. I have no way of knowing what I'll regret but those with experience certainly do. All I can say is knowing there is no future with "Francois," I really am trying to cultivate other relationships. Not with any zest or enthusiasm, but I am trying. I literally force myself to do something every day.

 

When a guy is all over you like he was when you had barely exchanged any words, it unfortunately isn't about you or your scintillating personality. He knew nothing about you. His chase was based simply on the fact that he sensed an opportunity. Players are good at sniffing out who might bite on their cheap lines. That's why he was unable to give you a straight answer when you asked him what it was about you that caught him.

 

No doubt about that.

 

As you yourself have pointed out, this has no future. Keeping him in your life has also made it impossible for you to be genuinely interested in other men...men who could offer you so much more than a monthly tryst. So your life (and your future) sit in limbo while you hang on to a man who has no interest in committing to you or making you his primary partner. And at some level, this is a moral dilemma for you. It sounds as if that's part of what brought you here.

 

Is the occasional tryst with a serial cheater overseas when there's zero future really worth sacrificing your values over. If you allow this to continue, it will do a number on your self-esteem and self-worth by the time everything is over.

I hear everyone when they say this, really I do. When I hear it, I go back to Sept. 20, the day before I met him. I was on a week long vacation that I took in protest to an overwork situation that was forcing me to pull one or two all-nighters per week. I was working on the vacation the night before trying to rein in the email monster. I had a demanding job, demanding family life and and spent all of my time giving other people what they want from me. And a totally sexless life I might add.

 

And on a dime, this experience has made me put myself first. It made me think about satisfying my needs, and I can't remember when I last thought about them. So I feel a huge self-esteem boost in this moment, and I'm not under any illusion that I can reform a cheater. What I don't know how to do is stop this: he's good to me (in every way), it's fun to get away from my life, the country is amazing, and I'm doing something that is thrilling beyond words.

 

Sometimes we listen to advice. For some, going through the painful life lesson, often with the attendant emotional scarring and baggage is what it takes. You will do what you want despite everyone's advice. Understand that we live with the consequences of our choices.

 

Agreed. Taking judgment/values/morality out of the equation, whatever this thing is, isn't built to last. I know that, how I will react when it's time -- don't know. It seems to me it behooves me to be better about building a relationship here so that I am the one who ends it.

[ShatteredLady]

You know the old quote about looking into the abyss?

 

This has changed you. This is changing you. Only you will understand the myriad of different ways if you're introspective in the future.

 

There's a man who started a fun international affair with my SIL. Little did he know, he was starting on a journey which would include the suicide of my brother & taking into his life 4 young broken children. He is forever changed & not for the better. We are ALL forever changed.

 

His wife could throw him out (the gift for his son was a truly awful move. I hope you can see that!) & in a decade you could be stuck with a suave serial adulterer...

 

This could open you & build a confidence you never had. That could reveal itself in fantastic career moves...

 

No-one can tell you where this is going to go or the ramifications good or bad.

 

Mostly single OW get burnt. Mostly BS & children get devastated. That's why most advise is to drop him & move on. You don't seem like a cold 'not my problem who get ruined by this!' kind of lady.

 

You're justifying your choices. No! Not everyone cheats! I'm truly sorry that, for some reason, you surround yourself with people who have infidelity in their lives...or you perceive the world that way. That's not my life experience. I know from being young & listening to adult conversations regarding others adultery. I know from my family & friends, as a mid 40's lady, that it's not 'our world'.

 

I know very few married people who have ever cheated. I'm not saying it's all sunshine & roses but I have very close relationships & this subject has been discussed. When I had my first child I became part of a close group of 8 married women. Over 10 years later & only 3 of us have known infidelity & 2 of them were internet EA's. That's far from EVERYONE.

 

Please don't let this color your view of the world or men. If you insist on going through with this work to get-out as unscathed as possible in every way. If we forget "do unto others" & all the morality stuff I do believe that it can be just fun (if I squint a lot!) but you just don't seem like that kind of lady.

[rainbowsandkittens]

So my story is on the similar side. I met my Frenchie on tinder. He was in the US for work and actually comes here about every 8 weeks for a week at a time. He told me he was 'looking for friends to show him around my city as he'd been coming here for a few months and wanted to do things with someone else.' He also told me that he was divorced and they shared custody of their two kids.

 

We had an amazing date. I kissed him first but he was def the leader with everything else. I did not sleep with him but close. He went home the next day and we continued to talk and talk and talk. He finally told me that he was not divorced, they were still very much together. Never married but together I think 15 years or so. He'd cheated on her 3 times that I know of (I later found out he lied about when the "stories" were. One was when his daughter was a newborn. He also lied about the kids' ages, I think so I wouldn't realize when the affairs were.) I got the whole kit and kaboodle- she's terrible and abusive to him and the kids, he's so deeply unhappy, he wants more from his life, they're not intimate (enough), etc etc and on and on. He and I had such an amazing connection. He literally could not have been sweeter, more loving (though he would never use that word, he used words as code for that) or more attentive. Given the time difference it's amazing that we managed to talk something like 15 hours a day.

 

We "broke up" once when the guilt felt too bad. And every time he would come here he would freak out after the first time we had sex. Then everything would be fine. I told myself that it was ok, he was leaving, she was terrible, etc. Even though the things he told me about her sounded like normal work/ life stress esp for someone with 2 kids and a selfish partner.

 

I ended up coming here when trying to find stories about people who's As worked out. Instead I found out how nothing that he said or did was original. I ended up pushing him for more, trying to get him to prove that it was real and special and not what everyone else pointed out. Well, that backfired. He felt pressured and the Fun Time American ended up being too much of a drag. We ended things last january. He did. Sorry, not we.

 

He came back this summer. We both had big birthdays a month apart and wrote to wish each other a good day. He came here right after mine, we spent the week together and slept together once. And he freaked out. Right on time. The next time was just making out but there was a lot of talking. He was trying to work on his relationship, he said. But he also said that he was not ruling out meeting someone else, just that he was trying really hard to make things better with his partner.

 

A month later they went on a 3 week vacation and she caught him using porn. The ***** hit the fan and he blocked me only to unblock me a day later. But it was over. I sort of lost it on him. I never heard from him again and blocked him on everything. I truly believe she may have found out about me or something to that effect. I don't think I will ever know.

 

In some ways, I miss him like crazy. It had been a VERY VERY VERY long time since I'd had sex and what felt like even longer that I'd met someone I liked who liked me back. Someone who made me feel as special and beautiful and cherished as he did. I thought I found a unicorn. He was smart and funny and so incredible looking and FRENCH. I never knew how hot a French accent was. Lol. I felt good for the first time in a long time....

 

Until I didn't. And boy did that feeling good switch dramatically. This experience broke me. BROKE ME. My self esteem is shot. I became someone that went against everything I stood for, I hurt people I didn't know and who didn't deserve it, I accepted crumbs, less than crumbs, from someone who tossed me off the second he was done with me. The last times I saw him he even backtracked on some of the sweet things he'd said to me. He even took back the things that made me feel good. Who does that? And who allows that? I have been trying so hard to get myself back but boy, it's not going so well. I still think of him often. I am sure he's back to life as usual and their good relationship (my therapist is convinced that their relationship is and always was just fine and he just wanted more more more, esp bc he was out of town. I know that I was his fun time, his time away from his life) and more than likely feels nothing about me or for me. That kills me. I am here in pieces and he is just fine.

 

I don't believe it's a French or European thing bc he also told me that she would kill both of us if she found out. I think it's a purely selfish aHole thing.

 

You ask if the only thing to do is stop. Of course not. There is such a thing as ethical non monogomy and polyamorous relationships. But that's not what this is. You're both hurting other people that you KNOW would be destroyed if they found out (or if they knew it was still going on). you know this because you've been through it. And, honestly, because you're here. If you weren't concerned about it you wouldn't have found this forum in the first place. You wouldn't have started more than one thread. It's just the truth. And I'm sorry for it. I wish that all of our As were different. That they all meant something and were unlike anything else ever. Yes, I know people who ended up marrying their AP and lived happily ever after. Well, one, I know one. And the people they hurt remain hurt to this day.

 

I know you're looking for validation and to be told it's ok to be selfish because like it short and you deserve to have your fun and damn everything else. I know, because I thought that and wanted that too. But the truth is as fun as this is now, it's going to be 100 times less fun when it ends.

 

Sorry for the long post. I haven't been on here in a very long time because it brings everything up for me. Clearly. Lol.

[CuriousQD]

So big surprise everyone, I went.

 

I'm home safe and sound. This trip wasn't like the others and in the middle of it I was sure it would be my last trip because the energy felt so different, but it ended with him booking me another trip on the spot. Oh yeah, I met his sister in law this time. I feel like I'm getting punked or walking in the Twilight Zone. But that was totally accidental.

 

So this was a nice three-day weekend. I actually forgot that I was kinda ambiguous about whether I was going to come because of DDay, so when I called him to pick me up he was surprised - in a seemingly happy way. In my last message, I had said "Maybe I'll see you tomorrow," so he took that as I wasn't coming. Anyway, he was working on his house when I landed and came to get me in his work clothes, and he insisted that I not hug him like that.

 

He had a quick shower at the hotel and I hugged him then and he starts gushing about everything that happened. His beard is noticeably grayer since the last time I saw him. Of course, his wife has been distraught and inconsolable. She has forgiven him, he says, but she watches him like a hawk and won't let him leave the house without her except for work. He said his son is still pretty angry with him, too, and it's not been easy with everyone so upset with him. He said the strangest thing. I only got back home last night so I am still trying to process what this meant. He said his wife's reaction about me was something like, "Whatever she sees in her husband, she does too and she (the wife) has the right to claim her husband." I didn't want to interrupt to question too much because he was going on and on. He was just obviously very affected.

 

He asked me what I wanted to do this weekend. There was some kind of festival happening that I'd heard about and said I would like to go there. So he rounds up the friends I know and we go off, and it suddenly dawned on me that the friends are cover. Duh, don't know why I hadn't seen that before. He can always tell the truth when he says I was out with my friends.

 

This festival was AWESOME! The food was out of this world good, and there was a section devoted to American country music that was packed to the hilt. I thought that was so funny, but he and his friends seem to know every country lyric ever written. There were many sections to this festival, but food and dancing was the center of them all. Francois had literally been feeding me (lobster) because I didn't want to get messy, but at a particular moment a woman came up to him and started talking. He had talked to many people there so I didn't think anything of it and while he was talking to her, I struck up a conversation with one of his friends. When I was done talking with the friend, I turned back to Francois and waved at the woman, and he whispers that she was his SIL. I just said hello and went back to talking with the friend. She eventually joined the line dancing and we walked to another section, still within view of where we were originally. This was more of a top 10 hits section, but still mostly American music and we danced all night, me, Francois and his friends. He was still being very affectionate even with his SIL only a few yards away. I couldn't see her, but I got the impression he wasn't concerned. Whatever he said to her, they had a good laugh and a hug.

 

There was a point where I even told him that I was tired of carrying my purse so he put it over his shoulder for the rest of the night while we danced up close and personal. He fed me more. We drank a lot more. We kissed a lot too. It was probably 3 am when we went back to the car. I was getting lessons in French, dirty French words of course, with him and his friends, while waiting on their rides. One person's ride showed up but the other didn't, so Francois decided to bring him back to the hotel to get back to his truck and take the friend home, rather than dropping him off first--the point being it was now 4 am and he had to get home.

 

The next day we'd planned to spend at his house site, which is just around the bend from his aunt's house. I would be spending a little time with her and then we'd go out again after he and his crew were done. We didn't go out. It was like Oldshirt had written the script. Suddenly late in the afternoon, someone calls to say his wife has a medical emergency. He said she is anemic and had fainted. So everyone, but me, rushes to the hospital.

 

It's actually okay, I had prepared for this. I had reached out to my friend's other friends there, and spent the rest of the evening with them, fishing of all things and then making a marvelous meal. It was a nice experience, but the only reason I came was to see Francois, and with it being a weekend trip not seeing him on Saturday night was a huge bummer for me. And I felt everything everything you all said I would. I was not a priority.

 

I resolved that this had to have been the final wake-up call and went to bed alone, again. (This was not a sexless trip, it's just that he wasn't staying with me like before for obvious reasons).

 

He wakes me up Sunday morning with a video call from his bathroom. He's apologizing profusely and telling me to be ready in 30 minutes. He arrives with a picnic basket, takes me to this beautiful park, and we had some wine and it was all perfect again. I was there swooning as if the previous night didn't happen. He apologized repeatedly for the weekend going this way and promises to make it up to me. Then he drops the bomb. He says he loves me, doesn't want to lose me and he would pay for the next trip entirely. I kinda laughed that off, so he took out his phone and asked me when I could come again and minutes later I have another booking.

 

I get back to the hotel, hurry to pack for my flight home, and off we went to the airport. When I arrive back in the States, he'd sent me a dozen messages about missing me and wanted to know why I didn't say that I loved him back. I told him, "in due time."

 

So, what do you do with that? Obviously a saner person would say it's time. I just don't know what he's getting out of it. He can clearly have sex any time. A part of me wonders if I'm being groomed for something, but who would invest four months like this? At any rate, can't hide that he still does it to me, and I can't shake him just yet.

[CuriousQD]

You know the old quote about looking into the abyss?

Not before you mentioned it, but now I have a new obsession:laugh:

 

This has changed you. This is changing you. Only you will understand the myriad of different ways if you're introspective in the future.

 

There's a man who started a fun international affair with my SIL. Little did he know, he was starting on a journey which would include the suicide of my brother & taking into his life 4 young broken children. He is forever changed & not for the better. We are ALL forever changed.

 

That must be devastating. I can't even fathom. I'm very sorry for your loss.

 

His wife could throw him out (the gift for his son was a truly awful move. I hope you can see that!) & in a decade you could be stuck with a suave serial adulterer...

To me the consequences were awful, but my intentions were just to do something nice. I don't see a decade happening.

 

This could open you & build a confidence you never had. That could reveal itself in fantastic career moves...

 

Already has. I've already left that sweat shop job and have moved on to a bigger better position.

 

No-one can tell you where this is going to go or the ramifications good or bad.

 

Mostly single OW get burnt. Mostly BS & children get devastated. That's why most advise is to drop him & move on. You don't seem like a cold 'not my problem who get ruined by this!' kind of lady.

 

You're justifying your choices. No! Not everyone cheats! I'm truly sorry that, for some reason, you surround yourself with people who have infidelity in their lives...or you perceive the world that way. That's not my life experience. I know from being young & listening to adult conversations regarding others adultery. I know from my family & friends, as a mid 40's lady, that it's not 'our world'.

You're right that it's probably a jerk justification thing I'm doing. But it is in your world. You said so.

 

I know very few married people who have ever cheated. I'm not saying it's all sunshine & roses but I have very close relationships & this subject has been discussed. When I had my first child I became part of a close group of 8 married women. Over 10 years later & only 3 of us have known infidelity & 2 of them were internet EA's. That's far from EVERYONE.

 

Okay I see what you mean. When I was responding before, I didn't mean every single person cheats, of course. I just meant a lot do, probably most, and everyone probably knows someone who has. Like you just said.

 

Please don't let this color your view of the world or men. If you insist on going through with this work to get-out as unscathed as possible in every way. If we forget "do unto others" & all the morality stuff I do believe that it can be just fun (if I squint a lot!) but you just don't seem like that kind of lady.

 

Maybe. I am struggling here, and am really grateful so many people are humoring me while I sort this out. I know forever isn't an option. And I know I live on earth where people have expectations for how we behave, and to keep peace I should oblige those expectations to best of my ability.

[minimariah]

Is there a name for this?

 

confusion. you're confused... i think. you're in love with this man & want to continue the A but at the same time... you're feeling uneasy and uncomfortable about the backlash you'll probably receive. you're looking for encouragement:

 

What if they want support to continue or nonjudgmental advice from someone who has done this for a long time?

 

hmmm... i can think of one member - here on LS - who had an A with a married man, she was happy & satisfied and there was no DDay. she came out of it pretty traumafree - at least it seems that way.

 

but most other members do not agree with your choices; they can't support you if they think you're doing the wrong thing, choosing the wrong way, making a mistake. i'm not sure if you'll find more than one or MAYBE two people here telling you what you want to hear - it has nothing to do with judgement. people just seem to think you're doing a mistake.

 

and really - if you were in their shoes looking at your situation from the OUTSIDE... you'd think that, too.

 

Why is monogamy so hard?

 

it isn't. here is the thing... cheating doesn't equal polygamy + polyamory. cheating doesn't cancel monogamy out - in fact, most cheaters i know of ARE monogamous... with their APs.

 

we didn't choose monogamy because we're moral creatures; we chose it because of the evolution... monogamy is the most beneficial to us, the most beneficial form for raising children + building a family = continuing the species. it's all about what works the best, evolution wise.

 

lots of happy marriages & folks out there, faithful for many decades. there is no way of knowing HOW MANY & if i start telling you about all the positive examples... you'll ask me how do i know for sure that they're faithful. and well... i don't.

 

Bottom line: If you are respectful, play only your lane and manage your emotions and expectations -- just like you would for any other human activity -- is it really so wrong? And if so, why?

 

affair is MORALLY wrong, that's not debatable and there is no way around it.

 

but it's not about an A being wrong; what you want isn't likely... that's all. it's not likely that you'll be respectful & play only your lane: that ship has sailed, the W knows about the A and so does his son. your lover is careless, he will flop again & there will be another DDay. the W might even find out about you, your personal information. and finally - you're in love with this man. you won't be able to keep your emotions and expectations low for too long, you're not a robot.

 

one thing caught my eye - continuing the A makes you feel empowered. WHY? what is i about this A that makes you feel empowered? breaking the rules, doing something naughty and forbidden...? why did you choose this A as a way to empower yourself? does it really make you feel more empowered...?

Edited January 24, 2017 by minimariah