Why won't he just let it go?

[mortensorchid]

This is only my second post in this part of the forum, as I have had no major religious issues in my past. But I have one and continue to have one with my parents.

 

I was raised a Catholic. We attended church when I was a kid and through my teens, I went to a Catholic university, and, I do not attend church as an adult. Here are my reasons:

 

1) Offended - When I was a kid, we attended a church that we were very unhappy with. As a matter of fact, the priest who said the mass was a complete mess. He was drunk and/or suffering from dementia, I would find out in later years. He was disciplined by my city's diocese many times for his public drunkenness, and yet he was still allowed to say the mass to others before he became too much of a mess and came to a painful, sad end somewhere. Call me caddy, but I was offended by that. I was offended not just by the guy's behavior, but the fact that "management" did little if anything about it. There was this feeling of "ignore it and it will go away", I got the impression. Well, it didn't. And it offended me.

 

2) Religious people - I am not a religious nor spiritual person. I agree that the Bible contains many lessons and stories to determine from it for one's growth and learning certain life lessons, to be sure. But I do not like so called "religious people" who are holier than thou. They say that their religious beliefs dictate how they should or should not behave, then when they give into their human want and need, they feel incredible guilt and sadness and take it out on others. And when good things happen to them completely unrelated to their conflict, they're still not happy. Not me. Today, as far as I am concerned, is just another day. As was yesterday, and the day before. Something could happen, be it good or bad, but it's just what it is. I was tainted forever by a certain so called religious man I dated many years ago who scarred me for life. After a horrible, cowardly, miserable break up on his part, I swore never again listening to such hypocrisy and have gone forth.

 

3) Sunday - Honestly, I would rather sleep in on Sunday mornings. And I do.

 

4) Prayer - Some have said to start praying and then good things will happen to me. Well, I tried that. And everytime it has either failed or nothing different happens. I realize just because you say a prayer does not mean that IT (whatever it is) will automatically happen. But it's a waste of time and I have been angered and/or disappointed in the process.

 

So with all of that being said, long ago I just said "Fagettaboutit" and gone forth. Am I happy? Yes. Am I sad that I never go to church less it's on Christmas or Easter just to make Mom happy or to a funeral or wedding? Not a chance. My father, however, is a devout Catholic and he tells me to go to church all the time. I have gone over these reasons why with him multiple times and answered "No I will not." He said if there was something he could do or say to make me go to church he would do or say it. I said I'm sorry you feel that way, but I am completely apathetic to his pleas. As a matter of fact, once he dies, I will wash my hands completely and never go on Christmas and Easter anymore and only go for a wedding or funeral. He has pointed out to me that we are simple, Catholic people and we do not approve of things like alternative lifestyles and the immorality of abortion, etc. I said "But we do it anyway. Not me personally, but the world does despite what your religion does or does not say because science is more powerful." Hell, I even caught him looking at internet porn once. Mom goes off about the immorality of a TV show like Friends - showing people sleeping together and not being married. I asked her if she finds it offensive, why does she continue to watch the show? She said "Because it's funny." Once again, science.

 

This will never be resolved between me and him, but I think it's disrespectful of him to not acknowledge my feelings. What if the situation was reversed? What if he was apathetic and I was the devout one and I was telling HIM that he needed to go to church to find fulfillment? He'd be angry with me that his holier than thou daughter who hasn't had so much life experience be as such to him.

 

What's done is done about my past. But how can I resolve this? Or is it just a rant? Thanks for reading.

[LancasterAmos1966]

What's done is done about my past. But how can I resolve this? Or is it just a rant? Thanks for reading.

 

You've made your decision and he should respect that.

 

However, it appears as though he is not willing to change his mind --- so it's a stand off. Either someone changes in a way that allows the relationship to grow, or both dig their heels in allowing the relationship to suffer.

 

It's obvious that you would really like a relationship with him, so I commend you for that.

 

A word to think about is "redirect" --- when he brings the topic up, try to redirect him to a different topic; tell him you need to leave the room for a few minutes but will be right back; think of some way to change the topic in order to not discuss the religious topic. You might fail a few times in the beginning, but the more you redirect him and the topic, you will get better at doing it.

 

By intentionally changing the topic, hopefully your dad will realize he needs to look elsewhere to discuss his views, and begin to value you as his daughter even though you hold a different religious viewpoint.

[mortensorchid]

There is no convincing him. I think what he is bent out of shape about is more the power and control. If it's not his way he's angry. Like I said, if the situation was reversed he would be angry with me - If I were devout and he was apathetic. I did ask him one time if he was telling me that in all his years didn't he NEVER ONCE NOT go to church on Sunday? You didn't care even ONCE like in your teens or twenties?!?! He said no. A lie, I know it is. Like my catching him looking at internet porn once, he is just a human too.

[BC1980]

If he is not open to what you have to say or at the very least just respectful, then you probably can't resolve these problems with him. However, you can work on resolving these problems within yourself. You can have boundaries. For instance, you can tell him that you have your own opinions about religion, and you understand that he has his. However, you don't wish to discuss these opinions with him. So, if he continues to try to bring things up, you'll simply have to put the phone down or walk away. You don't have to expose yourself to what he says if it's just a constant repeat of the same old thing. It doesn't seem to me like there's anything new or constructive and what he is saying. Come at it from a place where you are trying to salvage the relationship. Tell him that for the sake of the two of you being able to have a relationship, you simply can't discuss these religious differences with him anymore.

[umirano]

It seems to me this is more of a relationship problem than a theological question. You do not fundamentally doubt the veracity (and utility) of catholicism in particular or theism in general?

[mortensorchid]

It seems to me this is more of a relationship problem than a theological question. You do not fundamentally doubt the veracity (and utility) of catholicism in particular or theism in general?

 

It's both. I said to him once it's very hard for me to believe that he NEVER ONCE did NOT GO to church when he wasn't made to go as a kid. And when I say as a kid it doesn't mean a teenager, it could mean young adulthood. And he said no. I think that's a lie but he won't admit it. He and I have an odd relationship in many ways, I admit. We understand each other when no one else seems to, yet we butt heads about certain things like this. Like I said, he's bent on power and control. He's said to me many times that if there was something he could do or say to make me go to church, he would do or say it. I said to him once that he did. Once he gave my phone numbers to a crazy woman who I went to high school with who called my parents' house looking for me because she wanted to have contact with me again. I explained to him that I had ended the relationship years before because she was a hopeless alcoholic/drug addict who'd been in and out of jail, had been homeless and probably done many a sordid thing I didn't know about. And I went to church to say a very special prayer of thank you. I said thank you to the Lord for finally making him see the light in this situation that he was/is so eager for some dope I went to high school with be in my life that he would endanger his child's life not because he was nostalgic but because he was/is truly nieve. And he's never demanded that I go to my high school and/or college since then to get good friends.

 

It makes me angry that he won't respect my wants and wishes, but this will never be resolved. After he dies I will never go again unless it's for a wedding or funeral and I will wash my hands of the Christmas/Easter obligation once and for all.

[umirano]

If I understand you correctly you believe in god (you thanked god/prayed to him) but you don't like your father's church?

 

I think you're right to not go if it's not your cup of tea and your father will have to live with it. Maybe your father could be more understanding if you explained to him specifically why you don't like his church. And that you don't see yourself as a powerless, passive subject of said church.

 

Personally I don't believe in a god, so going to church other than to follow an invitation, say to a Christian wedding, makes no sense. I guess there are also christians who don't go to church because they feel mainline churches distort the religion and they form their own circles in homes and private gatherings.

 

Is that something you'd be more comfortable with exercising your religion?

[mortensorchid]

If I understand you correctly you believe in god (you thanked god/prayed to him) but you don't like your father's church?

 

I think you're right to not go if it's not your cup of tea and your father will have to live with it. Maybe your father could be more understanding if you explained to him specifically why you don't like his church. And that you don't see yourself as a powerless, passive subject of said church.

 

Personally I don't believe in a god, so going to church other than to follow an invitation, say to a Christian wedding, makes no sense. I guess there are also christians who don't go to church because they feel mainline churches distort the religion and they form their own circles in homes and private gatherings.

 

Is that something you'd be more comfortable with exercising your religion?

 

Yes, you are correct on the above point. I do believe in God, but I don't feel the need to attend church due to past experiences and personal choices today. I'm apathetic, quite honestly. He seems to think that the key to happiness for me is to go to church. He lives in a fantasy world blurred by nostalgia, I wash my hands of it and I'm completely apathetic to his disappointments. All I want is for him to let it be. But he won't. It's just a rant at this point.

[umirano]

I don't know what generation your father is from. Mine was born in the fifties and some discussions with him were completely pointless because no degree of intellectual honesty, no personal heartfelt emotion would matter. And I wasn't looking to change his mind, I merely wanted him to understand that his wasn't the only possible viewpoint to take.

 

I've given up and explained that I will not bother anymore. At some point he regretted that our conversations became more and more dull and mundane and we tried again, but I never really felt that he was actually listening and trying to understand.

 

I don't know what to tell you. I like a good debate where I can learn something about the other person or whatever it is that we are talking about. Some people though are not really interested in explaining their views or learning someone else's, they just want to shove their opinion down your throat without respecting your intelligence. You cannot talk to them, it'll drive you crazy.

[BC1980]

Yes, you are correct on the above point. I do believe in God, but I don't feel the need to attend church due to past experiences and personal choices today. I'm apathetic, quite honestly. He seems to think that the key to happiness for me is to go to church. He lives in a fantasy world blurred by nostalgia, I wash my hands of it and I'm completely apathetic to his disappointments. All I want is for him to let it be. But he won't. It's just a rant at this point.

 

You can't force him to let it go. All you can do is refuse to engage in a discussion of it. That may mean physically removing yourself from the situation. You can only control yourself.

[Arieswoman]

OP,

 

BC1980 nails it here

 

You can't force him to let it go. All you can do is refuse to engage in a discussion of it. That may mean physically removing yourself from the situation. You can only control yourself.

 

If it helps you, I had years of cr@p from my mother and I used to tie myself in knots over it until one day I thought "stuff it, we will never, ever agree on xyz", and I distanced myself from her.

 

As it is often said "you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family"

[Michelle ma Belle]

OP, how is it you continually get into such heated discussions with your father about this subject? Are you still living at home? Do you bring up the topic at dinner? What?

 

You're adult and have the right to live your life as you wish. Period. Yes, our parents tend to have their own version of how we should live our lives particularly if they're religious. When push comes to shove, they have no power over us.

 

You're right, there is no changing him so why continue to go at it with him about it? It seems you're hell bent on proving his hypocrisy (and I don't blame you by the way) but at some point you have to ask yourself if all this is worth it?

 

Having been through a very similar experience myself I can tell you that it's not.

 

Good luck.

[Ronni_W]

But how can I resolve this?

Hi mortensorchid.

You might be able to resolve it by 'arming' yourself with more compelling reasons for rejecting what the Catholic church is teaching for "Christ Truth" - but, of course, it'll only work if your dad will be open to listening to you.

 

The spiritual topics on this site could provide you with a new way in to resolving this (and hopefully bring you permanent peace about it .)

 

In Light,

Ronni

[sagetalk]

This will never be resolved between me and him, but I think it's disrespectful of him to not acknowledge my feelings. What if the situation was reversed? What if he was apathetic and I was the devout one and I was telling HIM that he needed to go to church to find fulfillment? He'd be angry with me that his holier than thou daughter who hasn't had so much life experience be as such to him.

 

What's done is done about my past. But how can I resolve this? Or is it just a rant? Thanks for reading.

 

Parents hope that their children will take on their best qualities and not repeat their biggest mistakes. Your Dad obviously feels his beliefs are some of his best qualities. Even though he is not perfect, it does not diminish his faith. He wants you to take on those good qualities he sees in himself.

 

How do you want him to react? What is your perfect scenario?

 

If he is a devout follower of a religion, expecting him to accept your rejection of it is highly unlikely.