Compatibility issues? Is my relationship doomed?

[clia]

Your calculations are right in target. Well 100k a year income sounds about right. But we also live in a place where cost of living is high.

 

He apparently believes in this guy who touts this idea. (Google "mr money mustache shocking early retirement".) I read it and I am wary of it, while the ideas are good (save $, invest it), the "shocking results" seem overly optimistic and far fetched.

 

I just feel like we are on two totally different wavelengths.

 

I'm familiar with Mr. Money Mustache, and what he's done is doable (and pretty cool), but you need to consider whether that is the type of life you want for yourself. For example, I believe MMM only spends around $25k a year. That's very frugal living and he tracks everything. He's also quite adept and knowledgeable about the investing side of things. This type of lifestyle takes quite a bit of effort and "work," in my opinion. Do you want to live that frugally? Both people have to be on board for it to work.

 

I also believe MMM and his wife aren't technically "retired" in the sense that they don't work at all. I think they both have side hobby type businesses that are still bringing in at least some money, and I'm thinking he probably also makes decent money through his blog now. In other words, he's not just sitting around playing video games all day and living off interest. "Work" is happening, although maybe it's a different kind of "work." It's more that he has financial freedom to do the type of "work" that he wants to do, and to take time off when he wants to do it. Is that what your boyfriend is thinking when he talks about retiring early, or does he think he'll be done in 20 years?

[VeveCakes]

and with the way the future looks....what happens if he lost all those investments in a recession or worse?

[elaine567]

I'm familiar with Mr. Money Mustache, and what he's done is doable (and pretty cool), but you need to consider whether that is the type of life you want for yourself. For example, I believe MMM only spends around $25k a year. That's very frugal living and he tracks everything. He's also quite adept and knowledgeable about the investing side of things. This type of lifestyle takes quite a bit of effort and "work," in my opinion. Do you want to live that frugally? Both people have to be on board for it to work.

Getting a return of 10% is impossible if your bf thinks he can just mosey along to a bank and they will give him that for just opening a savings account.

Being adept and knowledgeable about where to invest money takes a lot of work and for higher returns it often puts money at huge risk too, so it is not easy. Add in downturns, recessions, market crashes, poor decisions and pure bad luck and all those pipe dreams are just that.

[Noideanow]

the way you write about him, it seems you dont love him? do you? respect him? you seem "stupidly judgemental" to me sorry:( to say it nicely.... I think he is a boy/man capable that you should be grateful wants to be with you

[Els]

the way you write about him, it seems you dont love him? do you? respect him? you seem "stupidly judgemental" to me sorry:( to say it nicely.... I think he is a boy/man capable that you should be grateful wants to be with you

 

If anyone thinks they should be grateful that a guy like THAT wants to be with them... they have serious self-esteem issues.

 

OP, (Ugh, your threads all got merged I think, so it's difficult to find some of the things I wanted to talk to you about, so I'll try and go off memory)...

 

I haven't addressed the specific problems in your opening post because I'm personally on the fence with some of them. I personally enjoy having a flexible schedule - I don't want dinner at 6pm on the dot every day regardless of whether I feel like it or not. I enjoy gaming (though I think your bf is overdoing it). I don't mind a partner who 'only' makes 100k/year for the rest of his life (hope I remembered this correctly). I personally also eschew the corporate ladder in my career choices.

 

Some things you mention I would mind, like his naivete re: investments and the roomba crap, the number of hours he spends on his games, etc. And some things would be absolute dealbreakers for me, like his calculative nature when he's with you and the way he tries to control not just his dating expenditure, but YOUR expenditure, with an iron fist. And the way he spends so easily on his own luxuries, but is mean and stingy when he's with you. People who are bad with money AND stingy with partners are the worst kind.

 

The thing is, though, YOU'RE not happy with all this. And for good reason. It's only been 6 months. It's only going to get worse from here onwards. Could you please give us some reasons why you haven't broken up with him? (besides this being your first R, which we have all reassured you doesn't matter)

[sarah999]

I apologize for not replying for a while. Life's been busy!

 

I do appreciate all these replies. I know this thread got confusing as the forum admin merged all my threads into one thread.

 

Anyways 10 days ago I did have a good talk with him about "compatibility" concerns in regards to lifestyle and career, and he came up with a list of personal goals and I came up with a list for myself too and said we would work on them together to improve ourselves. I know many of you said I should just end it with him, but I don't feel quite ready yet and I'm curious to see where this would go...

 

Now, another update about the money issue. This is a continuation of my original post (post #4 on the first page of my thread). In summary, as a refresher for you guys, whenever my bf pays for stuff, he makes comments about how I'm making him broke or I need to pay him back.

 

So yesterday, I don't remember why but out of the blue he said, "well remember I paid for your vacation [sevral months ago] and took you out to lunch and dinner [while on vacation] and you never paid me back."

 

I got really upset.

 

Quick refresher for you guys: after he paid for vacation, I did offer to pay him back in cash but he said don't worry about it. But then he made comments about me making him broke, so ever since the vacation, I've been paying when we eat out, paying for his gym, etc, and I've paid back my debt but I didn't tell him yet. I think he said that comment today because he probably still thinks I owe him for the vacation.

 

I decided it was time to set the record straight. To tell him 1) I've paid off my debt, and 2) his money comments are hurtful.

 

I said: "there is something I want to talk about which concerns me. It seems like you care a lot about expenses and ever since you paid for the vacation, you keep making comments about how I am causing you to "be broke" and how you always remind me to pay you. It makes me feel sad, as if whenever you spend money on me, you feel bad about it and want to remind me how bad it makes you feel, reminding me how I owe you. I am ok paying my fair share, I don't want you to pay for everything, but your comments make me feel like I'm your coworker or business partner rather than your gf. This is why I made a spreadsheet of our expenses, and if you want I can show it to you."

 

He at first said no but then he took a look at it.

 

He said, "I am sorry I made you feel this way, I didn't realize you were feeling this way. I will stop making the comments. I just thought I wasn't really keeping track of my expenses and I really don't care. My family relatives fight a lot about money and the last thing I want to fight about in our R is money. I'd be happy to pay. It's not your or my money, it's *our* money."

 

I said "I feel like you do care."

 

He said that he wanted to pay for me so that was why he used his new credit card to pay for my trip. He didn't expect to pay me back. I said, but why all the money comments? He said he meant it jokingly and he was sorry he said them. He said I shouldn't worry about it and I didn't need to make the excel spreadsheet.

 

Thing is, I don't know if I'm just bitter or upset, but I believe 0% of what he said about being happy to pay.

 

 

Also, about two weeks ago, we went grocery shopping at Costco and we bought $200 worth of stuff. It consisted of $50 of his stuff (I don't eat it), $60 of my stuff (he doesn't use), and the rest is shared stuff (we both eat). At first he said he'll pay me back for the $50 of his stuff. After I paid the entire $200, I said let's split the costs. Then he gave me $100 in cash.

 

Well yesterday during the discussion, he brought up the Costco trip and said it made him feel weird that I asked him to split the groceries and for him to pay me back. Well, I didn't know that upset him. Was it really wrong of me to ask him to split the groceries? At that time I had already paid back my debt but I didn't tell him yet. Maybe he felt I still owed him so I should've covered 100% of the Costco trip. I asked him to split because I felt like he's been so calculating with me so I'd throw the same game back to him. I actually told him that was why I wanted to split the Costco trip.

 

Please tell me what to do. I don't believe the things he says, but he insists that he doesn't care about money. And what are your opinions about the Costco trip?

 

 

Also, he asked me how we should manage expenses in the future to avoid issues like this. I said we will talk about it tomorrow as it was late and I was tired. So today I need to continue the convo. How should we manage money going forwards? Also right now I am still paying for his gym, I'm afraid if I ask him to reimburse me, he'll get upset?

 

Also this week he paid $50 for me for dinner and outings. Which again makes me feel like I owe him and he's thinking about it a lot, even though he insists he doesn't care.

 

Please help.

Edited December 9, 2016 by sarah999

[lana-banana]

When you repeatedly insist you don't believe what your partner says, your relationship is somewhere between pointless and toxic.

[eightytwenty]

Why are you guys spilting and worrying about things like that?

 

One person got the date this time, the next time the other person gets it. Then you shouldn't look at the bill and worry about a 10 dollar difference, and have to pay the other person back. that is something I would bring up to him, little 10 dollar differences is amazing. If he's micromanaging that much, leave.

 

Even that Costco thing, get your own carts and pay for what you want yourself, and the other get what they need, each Pay for their own stuff...

 

 

 

 

 

 

That back and forth over who owes the difference of dinner is BULL and petty! Why are you guys trying to combine stuff so much, and if you know he doesn't like using his own money don't go into Costco and put it together, make him get his own stuff. He might not like to spend his money, where you do, if he wants a relationship then you need to tell him that you aren't counting the nickel and dimes, he shouldn't either. If he starts that "oh, I paid 10 dollars more this evening" either tell him it's 10 dollars discuss how petty that is to look at money in a relationship like that, or walk away from it.

[sarah999]

I don't know if I'm overreacting or if I'm too stubborn for not believing him. I need some outside input if I should believe. The reason I don't believe is because he says he doesn't care about calculating expenses but his actions show he cares. I want to believe him but I don't know....am I thinking too negative? I'm afraid he says he is not calculating but in his heart he is still calculating. I hate being calculating but I felt like since he was doing it to me I'd do the same thing back.

Edited December 9, 2016 by sarah999

[eightytwenty]

I don't know if I'm overreacting or if I'm too stubborn for not believing him. I need some outside input if I should believe. The reason I don't believe is because he says he doesn't care about calculating expenses but his actions show he cares. I want to believe him but I don't know....am I thinking too negative? I'm afraid he says he is not calculating but in his heart he is still calculating.

 

 

Girl, lol, that isn't his heart that is calculating, it's his head. He's trying to figure out if this new way of life is worth it. Like spending money where he use to never do. Bachelor's like my fiancé use to hate to spend money on things. Like 5 dollars for meat and bread was all he spent, when I came around it was dinners and a full meal, it makes them go omg sometimes. But that was never anything he would make me pay him back for if his time to pay was more than mine..

[Lorenza]

He does care about the money, that's obvious. There's a bit of truth in every joke, especially if it's repeated over and over again.

 

It doesn't seem like having shared money is working out for you guys. He's calculating and you're more flexible.

[OatsAndHall]

Money only becomes a serious issue in a relationship when one or both parties make it one. The fact that dinners are an issue has me baffled. You pay one time, he pays the next. If one of you picks up two in a row, then the hell with it. It's not worth a discussion or a fight. The grocery issue is ridiculous as well. You have separate accounts so he either needs to buy his own damn groceries or he needs to pay for half, regardless of who eats what.

 

This whole dynamic just has me confused... He keeps a running tab on "what you owe" but brings up paying for half of the groceries? I have said it before and I'll say it again: I would be very wary of a SO displaying this kind of behavior. But, I would also look at the bigger picture, down the road. What happens if you two decide to buy a house together? What happens if you guys have kids? These are all things with a considerable price tag on them.

[elaine567]

If you hadn't made the spread sheet, and you couldn't account for the money you had spent on him, you would still "owe" him for the holiday and still be expected to pay him back.

 

As for the Costco shopping he was quite happy letting you pay for all the shared expanses...

 

He is just mean with money and it is obvious he is actually trying to make you pay more than half your share too. He gives the impression of generosity "Don't worry about it", then later he is expecting you to pay him back in full or more than full.

His "jokes" are not jokes, they are deadly serious and are designed to guilt trip you into paying more than your fair share.

[sarah999]

This whole dynamic just has me confused... He keeps a running tab on "what you owe" but brings up paying for half of the groceries? I have said it before and I'll say it again: I would be very wary of a SO displaying this kind of behavior. But, I would also look at the bigger picture, down the road. What happens if you two decide to buy a house together? What happens if you guys have kids? These are all things with a considerable price tag on them.

 

I don't know, this is why I'm so frustrated and baffled. Because he paid a couple hundred for my vacation, he constantly reminded me what I owed him. But he didn't like paying for half the groceries. Also we don't live together but we spend mostly everyday together so we do have a lot of shared groceries. So just having him pay for his groceries and me pay for my groceries can't work, because we do share a lot of the groceries when we cook and eat together. I thought it was pretty reasonable to have him pay half the groceries so I was surprised he took issue with that. So what do I do about shared groceries from now on?

 

 

As for dinners I think taking turns is a good idea. We've never done it before, in the last we would either go Dutch or during vacation he paid for most meals and after vacation I paid for most meals.

 

And idk about buying a house. Goodness...

 

If you hadn't made the spread sheet, and you couldn't account for the money you had spent on him, you would still "owe" him for the holiday and still be expected to pay him back.

 

As for the Costco shopping he was quite happy letting you pay for all the shared expanses...

 

He is just mean with money and it is obvious he is actually trying to make you pay more than half your share too. He gives the impression of generosity "Don't worry about it", then later he is expecting you to pay him back in full or more than full.

His "jokes" are not jokes, they are deadly serious and are designed to guilt trip you into paying more than your fair share.

 

Yeah and the thing is I talked to him and he keeps saying he doesn't feel that way. But what you summarized is exactly what I believe he feels.

 

For example, now that I paid off my vacation debt, I'm still paying for his monthly gym. If I ask him to pay me his monthly gym, will he get upset?

 

I'm not trying to split hairs but I'm trying to mirror his behavior.

 

Idk how to go about this guys.

[Calmandfocused]

What Elaine said was bang on the money (no pun intended).

 

Ah yes, I got similar speeches too. "you know I love you and you can trust me" " if I could help more I would" blah blah blah. The truth? He was living off my every red cent whilst HE had thousands in the bank.

 

Sarah, he's lying to you. Trying to manipulate you into believing he isn't really "that guy"

 

Oh yes he is.

 

My advice if you want to keep dating him. Buy him nothing! You pay for you, he pays for him. Meaning he pays for his own gym. He wouldn't do the same for you and you know this to be true.

 

As for me I've worked out that my stbxh screwed me in total for about 30k. ( uk pounds) You bet that I've asked for this back in settlement. He hasn't contested this. Serves him right.

[sarah999]

What Elaine said was bang on the money (no pun intended).

 

Ah yes, I got similar speeches too. "you know I love you and you can trust me" " if I could help more I would" blah blah blah. The truth? He was living off my every red cent whilst HE had thousands in the bank.

 

Sarah, he's lying to you. Trying to manipulate you into believing he isn't really "that guy"

 

Oh yes he is.

 

My advice if you want to keep dating him. Buy him nothing! You pay for you, he pays for him. Meaning he pays for his own gym. He wouldn't do the same for you and you know this to be true.

 

As for me I've worked out that my stbxh screwed me in total for about 30k. ( uk pounds) You bet that I've asked for this back in settlement. He hasn't contested this. Serves him right.

 

I'm saddened, confused, and frustrated as to why he feels the need to lie. Can't he just be up straight and say he prefers to split expenses evenly? Instead of saying he doesn't care and would be happy to pay but then act otherwise.

 

 

How do I talk to him about this? Do I say that we should continue splitting down the middle? And for the gym, I'll have to go thru the sticky situation of having him pay me back in cash. Because we are on a couples rate and every month the gym charges my credit card for both his and my monthly gym rates. How do I go about this?

 

It's really sad, I wish I can be more generous. I want to. Sometimes I go shopping and see things that I want to get him but I have to stop myself because I realize he is not being generous with me. If he is being calculating but I am being generous, then I don't want him to feel like he can take me for granted and I'm "cheapening" myself for buying him stuff even though he doesn't like to buy things for me (or he buys me stuff and says comments about it). I feel like I have to mirror his actions.

 

Now that I said his money comments hurt me, I think he'll quit the comments. But won't he continue harboring resentment if he feels he's spending more on me than I'm spending back on him? Now every time he spends on me I feel like I'm walking on egg shells and I'm setting another ticking bomb.

 

Like the holidays he said he won a $500 gift card from his company and he'll take me on a shopping spree at the mall. That is kind of him to offer but now I am scared about it.

 

 

Again Im not like asking for free stuff from him but it's more about the principle and the gesture of giving that means so much for me. Especially since TD the holidays.

Edited December 9, 2016 by sarah999

[elaine567]

For example, now that I paid off my vacation debt, I'm still paying for his monthly gym. If I ask him to pay me his monthly gym, will he get upset?

Of course he will get upset, but that doesn't mean you are wrong. Stop the monthly gym payments now.

You are not obliged to pay for his monthly fees, your "debt" is now paid off.

If you have overpaid then "make a joke" about him reimbursing you...

 

The scheme he has for retiring at 40 is something a single man would have planned. There is no room for you in it, no room for houses and kids and all the usual family stuff. It is all about him and I think your whole relationship is "all about him" too. The money aspect is just another symptom of that "disease".

[SwordofFlame]

I'm saddened, confused, and frustrated as to why he feels the need to lie. Can't he just be up straight and say he prefers to split expenses evenly? Instead of saying he doesn't care and would be happy to pay but then act otherwise.

 

He doesn't want to be called cheap, but that's exactly what he is and he can't change himself.

[basil67]

Asking for him to pay you back for the gym membership shouldn't be sticky. At least, it wouldn't be sticky in a regular relationship.

 

Try "Hey, I need to get some money from you for your gym membership each month. Would you set up a direct payment from your account?"

 

If he gets argumentative, change the membership back to single, wear the cost difference and let him pay for his own.

 

Regarding your conversation with him, telling him how much he hurts you....what struck me is that you don't believe him but you didn't tell him this. Why would you keep your lack of trust in him secret from him? As he's caused so much damage with his behaviour, he needs to know just how bad things are. It's crucially important that he knows that you don't believe him.

 

"Given your previous behaviour, I'm having a hard time believing what you say. I guess time will tell"

[sarah999]

Asking for him to pay you back for the gym membership shouldn't be sticky. At least, it wouldn't be sticky in a regular relationship.

 

Try "Hey, I need to get some money from you for your gym membership each month. Would you set up a direct payment from your account?"

 

If he gets argumentative, change the membership back to single, wear the cost difference and let him pay for his own.

 

Regarding your conversation with him, telling him how much he hurts you....what struck me is that you don't believe him but you didn't tell him this. Why would you keep your lack of trust in him secret from him? As he's caused so much damage with his behaviour, he needs to know just how bad things are. It's crucially important that he knows that you don't believe him.

 

"Given your previous behaviour, I'm having a hard time believing what you say. I guess time will tell"

 

I am reluctant to ask now, because last time I asked him to pay me half of the groceries from Costco, I apparently ended up upsetting him.

 

Actually yesterday, when he denied being calculating, I said I didn't feel that way. When he denied it the first time, I said, "no, I feel you care about [the expenses] very much." Then he said he really didn't care about expenses. I might have repeated myself once more, I don't remember, but in the end he kept denying it and said he would pinky swear it and told me to stop worrying about it. I finally relented because I figured just saying I didn't believe his denials wasn't getting us anywhere.

[elaine567]

I am reluctant to ask now, because last time I asked him to pay me half of the groceries from Costco, I apparently ended up upsetting him.

 

Actually yesterday, when he denied being calculating, I said I didn't feel that way. When he denied it the first time, I said, "no, I feel you care about [the expenses] very much." Then he said he really didn't care about expenses. I might have repeated myself once more, I don't remember, but in the end he kept denying it and said he would pinky swear it and told me to stop worrying about it. I finally relented because I figured just saying I didn't believe his denials wasn't getting us anywhere.

 

This is similar to gaslighting.

He refuses to accept your perception of events and uses manipulation to stop you talking about it.

He makes you question your own judgement and you back down to stop him getting "upset".

 

This is the start of resentment building.

You made a valid point, he shuts you down. You stop talking, he thinks everything is fine and resolved.

You are fuming and upset and frustrated.

He forgets it ever happened, no big deal, a non story, he thinks he "won" -

YOU never forget.

 

This is not a healthy dynamic, this is your first relationship, so I suggest you cut your losses and run.

[sarah999]

My bf is normally really physically affectionate and in public he always holds my hand or puts his arms around my shoulders and gives kisses. I am shy but I think it was cute so I'm ok with it.

 

However yesterday it was a company holiday party, a fancyish ballroom event at night where people can bring their plus ones. We actually both work at the same company, our daily jobs do not overlap, even though we work in the same overarching department (the dept has hundreds of ppl). I am scared of possibly getting into trouble for workplace relationships, overall my company is not strict but I am still scared. So far I've been keeping the relationship secret from my immediate coworkers or former coworkers. However he thinks it's ok and I shouldn't be scared, and we should just walk around showing everyone we're together.

 

At the party there are many of my immediate/former coworkers and more senior upper level management. My bf wanted to hold hands but I was reluctant, I think I refused or I walked away a bit or I held his hand but when I saw a coworker, I quickly dropped his hand. He could tell I was nervous and I wanted to not make it so obvious we are together. In the end I relented and some of my coworkers saw me with him, which made me nervous. Granted there were many couples there. I saw a few of them holding hands or walking with arms locked but as far as I'm concerned their SO's don't work at the same company.

 

So after the party he said he is sad/upset that I kept shying away from him, not holding his hand, etc. He said he feels I don't love him and I am ashamed to be seen with him, that he is proud to be seen with me and I should be proud to be seen with him. I said that is not the case, the only reason is because it was a company event. I said I don't mind being seen with him out in the public or with his friends or my friends. But he kept saying that the fact that it's a company event shouldn't matter, that I made him feel bad, like I was avoiding being seen with him. I told him my worries about workplace relationships but he said I shouldn't worry about that. In the end I did apologize for making him feel that way and I said I didn't mean to, I was just scared about workplace relationship issues, it was nothing personal. He said it's OK but I think he might still be upset at me?

 

Everyone...coming from an outside perspective, can you tell me if I was in the wrong? If I behaved wrongly for "avoiding PDA" with him at the party? Did I handle the whole PDA thing badly? I feel bad I made him feel bad, but I also feel bad because he thinks it's an issue. What should I do?

[Calmandfocused]

Of course you feel that way. It's awful when the truth smacks you in the face. It's not nice.

 

However remember that your knowledge is power. Thank goodness you've seen the light now. You can use this to your advantage.

 

If the gym stuff seems too much aggro to separate, strategically come up with another plan. eg "hey honey, any chance you can pick me up a mascara when you go to the chemist? Money? Oh damn it, I've only got a couple of quid on me but don't forget, I've paid for your gym this month. That's what couples do, don't they sweetie?" kiss kiss.

 

Sound manipulative? Yes it is. But if you want to continue dating him, you need a survival strategy. Do not give him opportunities to take advantage and he won't or rather he can't.

 

You have to relearn how to approach this situation with your new knowledge, despite what he says. You sound very much like I was, wanting to shower your SO to prove how much you love them. Stop doing this else you will reinforce your role as the giver and his as the taker. Buy something for you instead.

[Dis]

Sarah I dont understand why you keep creating thread after thread about your dysfunctional relationship with your bf

 

No matter how many threads you create...we're just going to tell you the same thing:

 

Its not working...time to get out

 

Have some respect for yourself...stop complaining...be proactive and move on

[Calmandfocused]

Sorry forgot to add ignore what he says and watch what he does. Why would he resent you? Because you pay your own way for you? Nothing wrong with that is there? You will, in essence, be doing things completely fair which it seems is what he's requesting off you.