Weezy1973 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Well put.... The only thing I would add is that Alpha traits can also manifest in negative ways...Many of the convicted felons. drug lords, organized crime bosses, etc, are sitting in prisons have true Alpha traits...Many of them the same as you mentioned, just misplaced in crime and deviant behavior.. Not surprisingly, many outwardly normal women often see men like this attractive or stand behind them no matter the circumstance...On the one hand you might think what type of woman would stand behind a violent convicted felon, yet they are there every visiting time, posting bail money, taking care of their business, etc.. TFY Yup so many people with personality disorders (ex. narcissists) display these traits. And people fall for them over and over...and ruin their lives... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Lamare Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 How about this..give your definition of these terms. Alpha; Good father, strong husband, dress well, further your career, keep fit, be dependable and confident. Beta; Good father, strong husband, dress well, further your career, keep fit, be dependable and confident. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunkissedpatio Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Well put.... The only thing I would add is that Alpha traits can also manifest in negative ways...Many of the convicted felons sitting in prisons have true Alpha traits...Many of them the same as you mentioned, just misplaced in crime and deviant behavior.. Not surprisingly, many outwardly normal women often see men like this attractive or stand behind them no matter the circumstance...On the one hand you might think what type of woman would stand behind a violent convicted felon, yet they are there every visiting time, posting bail money, taking care of their business, etc.. TFY You're very right! Here's the thing, and I should have added this to the list, at the end of the day we are all still human which means we will make mistakes, we will fail and we will do things to disappoint others because no one is perfect. Being alpha or beta A or B doesn't exclude you from being human. And like you described, some people will take those alpha traits and focus only on the "making mistakes" part. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 One of the topics I see posted on here, probably more often than any I can think of, are the threads started by women claiming to be falling for or having a crush on their male boss or supervisor... Now....I am sure there is an easy explanation...I mean all of these bosses must be absolute mega studs....Perfect bodies, tall, handsome...the whole package.... Yup....that must explain it...... TFY 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I see a lot of men claiming alpha status getting chewed up and spit out by alpha women, here. I guess it depends on your perspective. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) I see a lot of men claiming alpha status getting chewed up and spit out by alpha women, here. I guess it depends on your perspective. Someone claiming to "chew up and spit out" someone on an anonymous internet forum is like putting your head in a life sized Katy Perry cardboard cutout and calling yourself a Diva... Cmon now...Really??? TFY Edited December 5, 2016 by thefooloftheyear Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 How about this..give your definition of these terms. How about a universally accepted one? Then we can start the discussion. Really this is elemental - you have to know what a thing means before you can discuss it intelligently, and the prefix "for me ...." doesn't help nail it down. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 One of the topics I see posted on here, probably more often than any I can think of, are the threads started by women claiming to be falling for or having a crush on their male boss or supervisor... Now....I am sure there is an easy explanation...I mean all of these bosses must be absolute mega studs....Perfect bodies, tall, handsome...the whole package.... Yup....that must explain it...... TFY Someone claiming to "chew up and spit out" someone on an anonymous internet forum is like putting your head in a life sized Katy Perry cardboard cutout and calling yourself a Diva... Cmon now...Really??? I don't understand the argument. Link to post Share on other sites
Sunkissedpatio Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) One of the topics I see posted on here, probably more often than any I can think of, are the threads started by women claiming to be falling for or having a crush on their male boss or supervisor... Now....I am sure there is an easy explanation...I mean all of these bosses must be absolute mega studs....Perfect bodies, tall, handsome...the whole package.... Yup....that must explain it...... TFY This is so true!! I had a mini-crush on my boss when I first met him and he does not fall into any of the physical traits described by what a perceived alpha should look like. He is tall though 6 feet. He is chubby, balding, has a bit of a baby face (like a Gerber Baby lol) but a very deep voice, witnessed his voice breaking a little when he talks in groups he doesn't know, but here is what made him irresistible and very alpha: Very confident in what he says and how he carries himself well versed in most topics super funny, not some slap sticky clown-of-the-class type just intelligent sense of humour and a great story-teller, very engaging hard working like you wouldn't believe holds an open door policy no matter how bogged down he is by his own priorities friendly and willing to help you succeed no matter who you are in the team/company extremely knowledgable at work, very intelligent flexible and very reasonable VERY well liked for the last points I just listed extremely driven and determined (we found out through a newsletter our team puts out monthly where we do exposes on different team mates across the organization that he came from nothing, he had a very rough upbringing and only finished highschool and in fact his mother had a drug problem so he and his brother bounced around in fostercare, the guy worked his way in his career, holds a high-level management job and he plays in a fairly successful cool indie punk band as well on the side) So ya those are all attractive alpha traits Edited December 5, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Blanco Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I don't understand the argument. Women are attracted to men of "power" and authority. You know, the things that come with being a boss or high-ranking official. I've got an ex dating a high-ranking dude at a pretty major company and it sure isn't because he's got movie star looks or a chiseled body: He looks like an even older Willem Dafoe and can't weigh much more than my ex (who's a slim gal). But I'm sure he projects a sense of power and authority because of his job and his wealth, which no doubt has a charming effect. As for the second post, I think he's just alluding to the possibility that some of the guys on here who claim to be "alpha," really aren't, otherwise they wouldn't be getting walked all over by women. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
MuddyFootprints Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Thank you! I get it now. Link to post Share on other sites
dichotomy Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I suspect there is a wide range of definitions and ranges of what is alpha/beta. Also ask guys what is alpha maybe different than gals. For a guy it might be the big tough intimating guy.... For Women its probably more cocky/confidence guy. A certain something. I would classify myself as mixture of things and at different time in my life - and depending on my mood - summon different things. One thing I developed late in life - was a good steady eye contact - either intimate or intimidating. I was never very good at that early in life. Not to turn this around to alpha women but I remember a story of Marylin Monroe who said she could be either Norma Jeane Baker and not get much attention - or in a crowd suddenly bring out "Marylin" and people would turn their heads around and notice her. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I suspect there is a wide range of definitions and ranges of what is alpha/beta. Also ask guys what is alpha maybe different than gals. For a guy it might be the big tough intimating guy.... For Women its probably more cocky/confidence guy. A certain something. I would classify myself as mixture of things and at different time in my life - and depending on my mood - summon different things. One thing I developed late in life - was a good steady eye contact - either intimate or intimidating. I was never very good at that early in life. Not to turn this around to alpha women but I remember a story of Marylin Monroe who said she could be either Norma Jeane Baker and not get much attention - or in a crowd suddenly bring out "Marylin" and people would turn their heads around and notice her. True.... Its a lot about intangibles, and as a result its very hard to clearly define....but you recognize it pretty easily when you see/experience it... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Sweetfish Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 What I got out of the post is that it takes a mix of people to keep a company, or society as a whole, running smoothly. Fitting each person into a neat little box doesn't work. As I have said before, even on this thread, there have been many definitions of "alpha" and 'beta" floated, and they don't all agree. If no one really knows what they mean, then what purpose do these labels really serve, except to an individual. There are many definition of whats pretty or ugly. Whats a republican or democratic is. Whats a jock and a nerd is labelled as. Everyone has their definition. So why does alpha and beta needs to be soo strictly define? I don't think a republican runs around beating on their chest that they are republicans (maybe trump) and Alpha males do not either, but there are subtle clues that may give us an impression he/she is a republican and that's the same with alpha male traits. You simply don't understand as a whole whats going on in the united states. Men are being raised totally different these days. They are being raised by single moms, females, and John Cusack and the rest of Hollywood.. They are not being raised by men anymore. So boys are growing up to be passive .. which many women on LS has openly admit is a turn off. Wade can you not agree with this statement or have you not seen a difference in the generation of boys in your younger days than the young men now? Am I wrong or right? That is why its hard for you to grasp the concept of alpha vs beta because perhaps you are naturally brought up with the traits and the new young men of these days are not. So now they have to define a label of traits that they lack and learn them later on in life. To most women this means absolutely nothing and as the thread proceeds it will always mean nothing. As they will choose men who are not... as stated above social losers or betas and if they chose a beta its possible it will bite him in the rear eventually. So Alpha vs Beta will have no value to a female because she will simply chose the best male.. If one of bluepowers losers...Oh, I mean employees decided he is not doing well with women and becomes good with women by becoming more assertive and learning to be socially dynamic and less passive it means nothing to a women how he got there or if he decided he wanted to take on alpha traits.. As animals and humans we group our selves or find places we feel comfortable in. Prettyemily is against labeling and its just her own pet peeve. That's life and their is nothing you can do about it. As men grow up to be more passive and rejected by the female gender for more aggressive or less passive males you will see this term Alpha being thrown around more and more often. While the term Alpha can be associated with barbaric men again you have no understanding why the word is more prevalent and how easily it can be taken out of context by anyone. Perfect example is Asian men. they are passive, but most are brought up educated due to social norms, kind and soft spoken. They yet seem to have a hard time being on the list of most attractive people for women. They are men like everyone else and level headed like you say EMILY...yet that seems to not make them highly attractive. For them its not required by their society to be assertive or aggressive. So naturally women in the states do not find Asian men as attractive as say a french man. So is the Asian male suppose to continue to be passive aggressive? But because your a female and all you have to do is open a tinder account or match account and watch as men poor into your email box why would you care about frivolous things such as whats going on in male society. Sunpotato didn't even you your self said that half the men on OLD wouldn't even have the galls to even approach you in real-life so those men you already pretty much throw them in the recycling bin. Its not attractive right? Link to post Share on other sites
Sunkissedpatio Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) Sunpotato didn't even you your self said that half the men on OLD wouldn't even have the galls to even approach you in real-life so those men you already pretty much throw them in the recycling bin. Its not attractive right? Hey what's your problem? That's the second time this week you have referred to me as that. I laughed it off the first time and thought it was quite funny but now it's clear it's just another of your underhanded ways to insult others that disagree with you. Grow up will you? Learn to have an adult debate without insulting people and maybe people will actually consider your opinions. And your comment directed at me has WHAT to do with this thread? You simply don't understand as a whole whats going on in the united states. Men are being raised totally different these days. They are being raised by single moms, females, and John Cusack and the rest of Hollywood.. They are not being raised by men anymore. So boys are growing up to be passive .. which many women on LS has openly admit is a turn off. What if people actually do understand what is going on but it's a matter of having a different opinion than you do? Edited December 5, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Sweetfish Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Hey what's your problem? That's the second time this week you have referred to me as that. I laughed it off the first time and thought it was quite funny but now it's clear it's just another of your underhanded ways to insult others that disagree with you. Grow up will you? Learn to have an adult debate without insulting people and maybe people will actually consider your opinions. And your comment directed at me has WHAT to do with this thread? What if people actually do understand what is going on but it's a matter of having a different opinion than you do? Nope it's not a underhanded way of insulting you... I actually respect you and your post. Take it as you will Link to post Share on other sites
Justanaverageguy Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) For me the major issue with the alpha \ beta analogy is simply the polarized simplistic nature it usually takes on. Binary buckets you must fit everything into. Most often Alpha being seen as better. It is simplistically painted as the more powerful direct action and seen as masculine usually based simply on the behavior of dogs. Beta is shown as the submissive and passive and seen as weak, inferior or feminine. The truth is a confident man is not afraid to be passive when the time is right and understands that passivity can be every bit as powerful as direct action. Its important to learn how to stand up for what you want and go after it .... but its also an important skill to learn how to be patient and let things come to you. To learn that non action - can actually be a powerful form of action too. Most guys are trying to learn to become an "alpha" equate it only with direct assertiveness. More often then not they lose all sense of sutbley or nuance in their approach because they equate alpha only with direct powerful action. They become like jackhammers with only one speed. Hard and straight ahead. I think its important to work on your masculine and direct assertive qualities but also recognize the value in passivity and try to learn how and when to use both traits effectively when the time is right. A more wholistic approach. Balance. Yin yang and all that jazz. Edited December 5, 2016 by Justanaverageguy Link to post Share on other sites
dreamingoftigers Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 For me the major issue with the alpha \ beta analogy is simply the polarized simplistic nature it usually takes on. Binary buckets you must fit everything into. Most often Alpha being seen as better. It is simplistically painted as the more powerful direct action and seen as masculine usually based simply on the behavior of dogs. Beta is shown as the submissive and passive and seen as weak, inferior or feminine. The truth is a confident man is not afraid to be passive when the time is right and understands that passivity can be every bit as powerful as direct action. Its important to learn how to stand up for what you want and go after it .... but its also an important skill to learn how to be patient and let things come to you. To learn that non action - can actually be a powerful form of action too. Most guys are trying to learn to become an "alpha" equate it only with direct assertiveness. More often then not they lose all sense of sutbley or nuance in their approach because they equate alpha only with direct powerful action. They become like jackhammers with only one speed. Hard and straight ahead. I think its important to work on your masculine and direct assertive qualities but also recognize the value in passivity and try to learn how and when to use both traits effectively when the time is right. A more wholistic approach. Balance. Yin yang and all that jazz. My daughter has been drawing little "tattoos" on us all week from this temporary tattoo kit she has. Tonight she drew a whole bunch of pink and purple flowers all up her Dad's arm. He's not going to scrub them off and just going to let it wear away naturally for a couple days. So she doesn't have any hurt feelings. Plus, he's a very proud Dad. To me. That's super-attractive. It actually got my motor running. That he's such a strong guy with his own personality who uses that in a way to let our daughter know she's special. If there was an "Ultimate Alpha" for me, it would be that. Not some dork in a bar "negging" and acting like he's "just too cool" trying to score a series of ONS with any girl who has a pulse. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Only got thru the 3rd page Measuring alpha is not like measuring to see who has the biggest tool. Being alpha is not just one input. Because a man can make $200,000 does not make him alpha it just means that he knows how to make $200,000 a year. And, his wife treats him as a beta door mat. Being alpha is being rated high by the other sex. Adam Sandler movie he has cancer he and his personal assist, Jonah Hill, bring home two attractive young women after brief small talk Adam makes an excuse to get one of the women to leave the room, scene changes to him banging her in seconds. Done he puts her in a cab. While doing that his assist is getting no where with the 2nd woman. Adam enters the room tells the woman her friend left asks her to follow him, back in his bedroom his is banging her in seconds. Put her in a cab. Next scene tells his assist that he is sorry that he hogged both women, are you surprised you did not get any, no woman is going to cheat on her boyfriend to bang some nobody personal assist. Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Lamare Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Ok, so a film with Adam Sandler in it = real life? Whatever. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Lamare Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm gonna book a ticket to Middle Earth, I've always wanted a chat with Gandalf, Frodo etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Justanaverageguy Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Tonight she drew a whole bunch of pink and purple flowers all up her Dad's arm. He's not going to scrub them off and just going to let it wear away naturally for a couple days. So she doesn't have any hurt feelings. Plus, he's a very proud Dad. To me. That's super-attractive. It actually got my motor running. That he's such a strong guy with his own personality who uses that in a way to let our daughter know she's special. If there was an "Ultimate Alpha" for me, it would be that. Exactly its generally about being self assured and content with who you are as a person. He obviously cares more about his daughter then he does about what random people think of a guy with flowers on his arm and what that says about his manhood . I've found often those who try hard to superficially "express" alpha qualities (big muscles, big cars, big dog, bragging about having sex with as many women as possible) are the ones actually lacking it in their personalities. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GoodOnPaper Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 This kind of thing has been the bane of my existence for 30 years. All the mental energy that goes into trying to not come off as "too nice", worrying that any show of empathy or sensitivity is coming off as weakness . . . it's exhausting. Ideally, things should just be a matter of a man living intentionally and being OK with that: Exactly its generally about being self assured and content with who you are as a person. He obviously cares more about his daughter then he does about what random people think of a guy with flowers on his arm and what that says about his manhood . I've found often those who try hard to superficially "express" alpha qualities (big muscles, big cars, big dog, bragging about having sex with as many women as possible) are the ones actually lacking it in their personalities. But I've found that my baggage really gets in the way. I think the road to balance is very different depending on the direction you are coming from. If you are coming from the "jerk" side, you are already projecting strength first, so just sprinkle in a little sensitivity here and there. For those of us working from the "nice guy" side, everything about us screams "weakness", so that has to be completely overhauled before our sensitivity can be considered any semblance of a positive. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 Exercise, lose the gut, broaden the chest, dress well, be decisive, get a good career, change things up from time to time, mean what you say and say what you mean etc. etc. Um, how important is the "dress well" part? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
NuevoYorko Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 I'm gonna book a ticket to Middle Earth, I've always wanted a chat with Gandalf, Frodo etc. Frodo is so beta. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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